19 Palestinians Killed - Hamas Vows Retaliation

Katana · 8th November 2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Hamas' exiled political leader has vowed to retaliate after Israeli troops killed 19 Palestinian civilians, many of them women and children, during a military operation in northern Gaza, according to Palestinian medical sources.

"I call upon all resistance factions to activate their resistance programs," Khaled Mashaal said at a news conference in Syria, according to a translation from The Associated Press.

"The cowardly act of Zionists (Israelis) requires a legitimate Palestinian action. "We have big trust in our military wings, which will reply on this aggression and resist occupation and retaliate for those victims."

The bloodshed occurred early Wednesday with Israeli tanks poised just outside the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. The tanks fired 10 artillery rounds into the town's center and killed 19 people, the medical sources said.

Among the dead was a 13-member family which included seven children, the sources said. The other six killed were also civilians, they said.

Hamas' militant wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigade, issued a statement blaming the United States for the killings, and called on all Muslim nations "to teach the American enemy a harsh lesson."

"America provides the political material and logistical cover for the crimes of the Zionist occupation (Israel) and it is responsible, before the occupation (Israel), for the massacre of Beit Hanoun," the statement said.

Quote:

Israel criticized

Officials from the U.N., Britain and the EU quickly criticized Israel's action.

U.N. Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process Alvaro de Soto urged the "Palestinian side" to stop attacking Israelis.

In his statement, de Soto said he was "deeply shocked and appalled" by the Israeli military action earlier in the day that killed "a score of civilians including many women and children."

The statement comes a week after U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan expressed his "deep concern" regarding the rising death toll caused by military operations in northern Gaza.

EU's external relations chief Benita Ferrero-Waldner described the attack on Wednesday morning as a "profoundly shocking event."

EU Foreign Policy chief Javier Solana offered his condolences to the families of the Palestinian civilians killed and to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

"It is high time to break the cycle of violence that I condemn in the strongest terms," Solana said in a written statement.

He called on the resumption of dialogue between the ruling Hamas party and Abbas' moderate Fatah party.

British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said she was "gravely disturbed" by the reported deaths, and urged Israel to "respect its obligation to avoid harming civilians."

"It is hard to see what this action was meant to achieve and how it can be justified," she added in her statement.

She also said rocket attacks by Palestinian militants "are also unacceptable" and called on both sides to abide by international humanitarian law "and to do their utmost to avoid harming civilians, especially children."

Quote:

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz later in the day expressed their regret over the civilian deaths, a government spokesman said.

Olmert ordered an "urgent investigation" into the matter and halted artillery fire in Gaza until the investigation was complete, the spokesman added.

IDF confirmed it had "fired preventative artillery" at rocket launch sites in Beit Hanoun to "disrupt and thwart the launching of Qassam rockets." More than 10 Qassam rockets were launched from the area into Israel in the past day, according to the IDF.

Two of those rockets landed in the Israeli town of Sderot, wounding one civilian.

The IDF said initial reports indicated the artillery fire was fired "at a location distant from the one reportedly hit," but added that the military was investigating the incident.

Israel also said an anti-tank missile was fired at an Israeli force east of Jabalya refugee camp, just south of Beit Hanoun.

Link

From another site on the same story:

Quote:

Hamas warns of suicide bombings
The Hamas-led Palestinian cabinet convened for an emergency meeting. Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad called for Israel to be expelled from the United Nations, saying it was an “animal, brutal state.”

In a huge demonstration outside the morgue at the Kamal Adwan hospital in the northern Gaza Strip, thousands called for revenge.

“We are going to fight against the so-called Israel. We are going to launch our rockets, our martyrs are going to sacrifice their lives in the depths of our occupied land,” said Nizar Rayan, a Hamas leader in northern Gaza. “They will strike in Jaffa, in Haifa, inside Ashdod. The battle will continue. The rifle is not going to be set down. All of us are martyrs in waiting. Revenge is coming.”

The militant group Islamic Jihad also called for revenge.

“Martyrdom is coming,” it said in a statement, referring to suicide bombings. “The response will not take long, because the time is ready for punishment, and the time is ready for revenge.”

Link

Disturbing developments.

Darth Rotor · 8th November 2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Katana

Link

From another site on the same story:

Link

Disturbing developments.

Excuse of the week for fifty, Alex.

There is much fun to be had. At least you can count on the Isr/Pal gang for entertainment.

IDF: shoot some people
Pal: retaliate
IDF: shoot some people
Pal: retaliate

Rinse and repeat. You can even have the Pals start the sequence, no one would notice.

These folks need a new script writer. The Pals are just mad that the Israeli tank fire is more effective than their rocket fire. Envy is a damaging emotion.

DR

Major Billy · 8th November 2006, 12:04 PM

How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people?

Darth Rotor · 8th November 2006, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Major Billy

How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people?

It gives many of them a reason to live.

DR

Katana · 8th November 2006, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Major Billy

How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people?

It fuels rally cries for Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.

webfusion · 8th November 2006, 08:10 PM

DR suggests:

Quote:

These folks need a new script writer.

General Dayton is preparing a new scenario as we speak.

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/10/0...5crossing.html
The security coordinator, Lt. Gen. Keith W. Dayton, is in talks with Mr. Abbas to reduce the number of overlapping Palestinian security services in order to create a single national police force on the model of Italy’s carabinieri. The US-sponsored $26 million plan is to strengthen Mr. Abbas and bring in the (Jordanian-Palestinian) Badr Brigade to Gaza.

Darth Rotor · 8th November 2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

DR suggests:

General Dayton is preparing a new scenario as we speak.

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/10/0...5crossing.html
The security coordinator, Lt. Gen. Keith W. Dayton, is in talks with Mr. Abbas to reduce the number of overlapping Palestinian security services in order to create a single national police force on the model of Italy’s carabinieri. The US-sponsored $26 million plan is to strengthen Mr. Abbas and bring in the (Jordanian-Palestinian) Badr Brigade to Gaza.

The Italians have three levels of Police. The Policia, the Carabinieri, and La Guardia di Finanza.

The Carabinieri are, shall we say, slightly corrupt. Be careful what you wish for. On the other hand, since the Pals are old hands at corruption, the Carabinieri are doubtless a great model for them.

They are snappy dressers, so that's a plus.

DR

E.J.Armstrong · 9th November 2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Katana

Disturbing developments.

Very distrurbing.

It seems that the IDF and Hamas care little about killing children

firecoins · 9th November 2006, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

Very distrurbing.

It seems that the IDF and Hamas care little about killing children

Becarful you dont get childish.

Cello Man · 9th November 2006, 11:02 AM

Everyone in the Middle East needs to take up a hobby. Let's air-drop a few thousand tons of Sudoku puzzle books onto the whole region.

Seriously, at what point does the novelty of all this wear off?

webfusion · 11th December 2007, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Seriously, at what point does the novelty of all this wear off?

This thread, from 2006, needs some updating:

1. Israeli troops with their armored force just moved into Gaza, and the resulting tank fire and targeted airstrikes have killed more than 20 palestinians in the past few days.

2. Hamas vows retaliation.

3. US General Dayton has been supplemented by US General (ret.) James Jones.

While IAF aircraft provided cover, dozens of IDF tanks and armored vehicles moved into Gaza on Tuesday morning, setting off clashes with Palestinian militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and mortar rounds.

Oliver · 11th December 2007, 06:07 AM

"Why do they hate us"?

I guess the Palestinians hate the Jews because their
freedoms. Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me... [/sarcam] [/analogy]

webfusion · 11th December 2007, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Oliver

"Why do they hate us"?

I guess the Palestinians hate the Jews because of their (the jews)
freedoms. Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me... [/sarcam] [/analogy]

What does this have to do with the ongoing/renewed war inside the Gaza Strip? (thread topic)

Darth Rotor · 11th December 2007, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

This thread, from 2006, needs some updating:

1. Israeli troops with their armored force just moved into Gaza, and the resulting tank fire and targeted airstrikes have killed more than 20 palestinians in the past few days.

2. Hamas vows retaliation.

3. US General Dayton has been supplemented by US General (ret.) James Jones.

While IAF aircraft provided cover, dozens of IDF tanks and armored vehicles moved into Gaza on Tuesday morning, setting off clashes with Palestinian militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and mortar rounds.

I am so glad this is happening. We are getting inundated with Christmas specials on TV, a good battle in Gaza is just the thing to brighten up the holiday TV season.

Please send my thanks to the IDF and the Pals of Hamas, they really know how to cheer a guy up.

DR

webfusion · 11th December 2007, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

I am so glad this is happening. We are getting inundated with Christmas specials on TV, a good battle in Gaza is just the thing to brighten up the holiday TV season.

Please send my thanks to the IDF and the Pals of Hamas, they really know how to cheer a guy up.

The reality is --- little TV coverage will be forthcoming. As far as the major TV News Networks are concerned, this isn't even happening. It's non-news.

Search google, and lo and behold, Al Jazeera is carrying the story, and AP is making a valiant effort (and their stringers in Gaza are trying to film) -- Two Israeli tank shells struck a multi-story building, sending people scrambling for cover. An AP cameraman and several other journalists at the scene suffered minor injuries and shock. (search phrase: "Israel gaza incursion")

CTV.ca carries the AP file report.

Praktik · 11th December 2007, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Major Billy

How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people?

Wrong question - how much good has violence done for either side?

Israelis may be materially better off, but both sides have come out worse off from their crazies who urge irrational retribrution instead of compromise. Maintaining a brutal occupation has cost the Israelies a lot - just as perpetrating acts of terror have cost the Palestinians a lot.

Oliver · 11th December 2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

What does this have to do with the ongoing/renewed war inside the Gaza Strip? (thread topic)

It's still the same conflict. There are no saints nor "evildoers"
in this conflict anymore. It's all one crap and to take a side
is as bad as having no opinion.

Israelis are responsible.
Palestinians are responsible.

Simple as that. It's time to handle this Issue in a neutral
way. I'm getting sick and tired of listening to arguments
like "Oh, the poor Israelis" or "Oh, the poor Palestinians".

Same goes to the US Media rather tending to say:" Oh,
the poor Israelis" than "Oh, those poor Palestinians".

It's all related. It's just a matter of oversight and neutrality
concerning this issue.

Darth Rotor · 11th December 2007, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Oliver

I

Simple as that. It's time to handle this Issue in a neutral
way.

Can we expect the German government to lead the way? Are they seen as neutral, honest brokers by both sides.

DR

Pardalis · 11th December 2007, 01:15 PM

Damn, for a second I thought Katana had returned.

Oliver · 11th December 2007, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Can we expect the German government to lead the way? Are they seen as neutral, honest brokers by both sides.

DR

Unfortunately, no. Germans current Government doesn't have
the Guts to oppose their American friends (Government).

So I wouldn't bet my hopes on them - you probably may lose...

Undesired Walrus · 11th December 2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said she was "gravely disturbed" by the reported deaths, and urged Israel to "respect its obligation to avoid harming civilians."

Huh? How old is this article?

WildCat · 11th December 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Huh? How old is this article?

This thread is over a year old.

Matteo Martini · 11th December 2007, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

The Italians have three levels of Police. The Policia, the Carabinieri, and La Guardia di Finanza.

Policia?????

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

The Carabinieri are, shall we say, slightly corrupt.

Really?
Are you sure?
Why?
The " Guardia di Finanza " is not?

Tsukasa Buddha · 11th December 2007, 04:53 PM

Isn't insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

webfusion · 11th December 2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

It's all one crap and to take a side
is as bad as having no opinion.

I'm not "taking' any side here -- I am on the side that needs to defend itself from rockets flying into our towns and cities.

It should always be recalled, that prior to the 1967 "occupation", Israel was constantly under attack from mortars and rockets, both from Gaza and the Golan Heights, as well as across the Green Lines (1949 Rhodes Armistice).

Go back to 1955, 1956, and the same sort of 'crap' (to use Oliver's turn of phrase) was being perpetrated out of the Gaza Strip. Israel invaded, put a stop to it, and withdrew at the urging of the International Community, which guaranteed the attacks wouldn't continue, and the 1949 Armistice would be respected again. B.S. -- by June 1967, Israel found itself once more embroiled in defending itself from attacks.

And here we are, 40-years on.
Are the islamic Jihadists attacking us because of the 1967 "occupation" or are we being attacked because of breaking the 1949 Rhodes Armistice, or because of what?

The Fool · 11th December 2007, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

And here we are, 40-years on.
Are the islamic Jihadists attacking us because of the 1967 "occupation" or are we being attacked because of breaking the 1949 Rhodes Armistice, or because of what?

I think its the bagels...

But seriously, let me know if you ever figure out why all sides in this thing have hated enemies. Its probably not a secret, have you though of asking them? I'm pretty sure I know why you consider Hamas et al your enemies, they fire weapons at you... I don't think Hamas will mind telling you why they do it.

a_unique_person · 11th December 2007, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Matteo Martini

Policia?????

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Um, what was the joke?

Matteo Martini · 11th December 2007, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

Um, what was the joke?

Not a joke, just a ( funny ) mispelling.
Please, go ahead, and sorry for the ( my ) interruption..

webfusion · 11th December 2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

I don't think Hamas will mind telling you why they do it.

You're absolutely correct, T-F, it's not a huge secret.

HAMAS specifies their reasons clearly in their Sacred Covenant:
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the (Jewish) enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized.

There is nothing about that declared islamic struggle which relates to any specific events of 1897 (Basel) , 1947 (UN, New York), or 1957 (Gaza), 1967 (Gaza again), or 1987 (Gaza, beginning of intifada) or even 2007 (Gaza, go figure).

The Fool · 12th December 2007, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

You're absolutely correct, T-F, it's not a huge secret.

HAMAS specifies their reasons clearly in their Sacred Covenant:
Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the (Jewish) enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized.

There is nothing about that declared islamic struggle which relates to any specific events of 1897 (Basel) , 1947 (UN, New York), or 1957 (Gaza), 1967 (Gaza again), or 1987 (Gaza, beginning of intifada) or even 2007 (Gaza, go figure).

do you think that statement refers to why they attack you? It seems to me to simply say that they take it very seriously and will never stop...but nothing much about why.

maybe we can approach it from a different angle. How about you put out a list of things that Hamas are not allowed to hate you for?

webfusion · 13th December 2007, 05:30 AM

T-F continues to attempt to rationalize islamic-fundamentalist terrorism:

Quote:

How about you put out a list of things that Hamas are not allowed to hate you for?

HAMAS, like all the 'fedayyin' that preceeded them, and like other islamic-terrorist organizations throughout the MidEast, are interested in Islamic conquest as an overall aim.

Even if Israel was not an independent State, the overall root hatred of islamic-fundamentalists against the jews would remain a motivating factor.
And I'll even go one step farther --- For that matter, the overall root rejection of all religions that are not "Islam" would remain in effect. The jews are but one prime example.
(and the fundamentalists would direct their hatred inwards, against each-other, as witnessed by the current insanity of Iraq, where car-bombs go off willy-nilly: yesterday, Four car bombs killed at least 33 people in Iraq) http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...uKnSXs5QrBKD3w

Israelis perfectly understand that they must prevent this type of thing from becoming the norm within their tiny land, and are doing what is needed to keep the terrorists at bay.
HAMAS is a virulent terrorist organization, certainly no less a threat to civilized humanity than Al-Quaeda.
OK, T-F, would you ask for "list" of the grievances from Al-Quaeda?

Darth Rotor · 13th December 2007, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Matteo Martini

Policia?????

Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!

Hmm, Polizia. Wonder why I did that?
*shrugs*

Quote:

Really? Are you sure? Why? The " Guardia di Finanza " is not?

Let's see, you are the Italian. Is the suggestion here that the Carabinieri are clean as fresh fallen snow? My military colleagues didn't seem to think so, the ones from Italy. *shrugs* I take their word for it.

I don't know if La Guardia Di Finanza is corrupt or not.

I do know our NIS, and they, (and perhaps some of the Carbs) worked on a well publicized joint drug bust in the Naples area, in 1996. A dozen American servicemen, and some Italians, were caught running heroin, cocaine, and some speed (IIRC) in what became known as the White Stallion ring. (It was all over the DoD newspaper Stars and Stripes for some time.)

DR

The Fool · 13th December 2007, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

T-F continues to attempt to rationalize islamic-fundamentalist terrorism:

Not rationalize web, just knowing what motivates them and understanding why they do what they do. Identifying issues is normally the first step in fixing them, but addressing the issues by chanting slogans may be more comfortable for some...

Quote:

HAMAS, like all the 'fedayyin' that preceeded them, and like other islamic-terrorist organizations throughout the MidEast, are interested in Islamic conquest as an overall aim.

To be honest web I'm getting a little bit tired of this one...I heard it about the commies for years. "Evil hordes bent on world conquest"

Quote:

Even if Israel was not an independent State, the overall root hatred of islamic-fundamentalists against the jews would remain a motivating factor.
And I'll even go one step farther --- For that matter, the overall root rejection of all religions that are not "Islam" would remain in effect. The jews are but one prime example.
(and the fundamentalists would direct their hatred inwards, against each-other, as witnessed by the current insanity of Iraq, where car-bombs go off willy-nilly: yesterday, Four car bombs killed at least 33 people in Iraq) http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...uKnSXs5QrBKD3w

Israelis perfectly understand that they must prevent this type of thing from becoming the norm within their tiny land, and are doing what is needed to keep the terrorists at bay.
HAMAS is a virulent terrorist organization, certainly no less a threat to civilized humanity than Al-Quaeda.
OK, T-F, would you ask for "list" of the grievances from Al-Quaeda?

I don't have to web, It is common knowledge what thier grievances were/are. And it isn't restricted to "because we are not muslims" Here is a challenge for you. Start a list head it "why Hamas attack Israel" put point 1 as "because we are Jews". How many more points can you add to the list?

Matteo Martini · 13th December 2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Hmm, Polizia. Wonder why I did that?
*shrugs*

Let's see, you are the Italian. Is the suggestion here that the Carabinieri are clean as fresh fallen snow? My military colleagues didn't seem to think so, the ones from Italy. *shrugs* I take their word for it.

Your colleagues are right..

webfusion · 13th December 2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

...understanding why they do what they do...

Between 1949 and 1956, 400 Israelis were killed and 900 wounded by fedayeen attacks.

HAMAS is only the modern incarnation of the fedayeen, and is a johnny-come-lately to the ongoing "keel the jews" ideology of the palestinians.
I don't need to understand them. I am just grateful for the IDF being able to protect my country from their murderous lunacy.

The more of them that get well-deserved dirt-naps, the better.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/934431.html
An Israel Air Force strike killed three Palestinian militants (including Sami Tafesh) in Gaza City on Thursday evening, after they were detected firing a Qassam rocket at Israel.

Badda-bing, badda-bang.

The Fool · 13th December 2007, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Between 1949 and 1956, 400 Israelis were killed and 900 wounded by fedayeen attacks.

HAMAS is only the modern incarnation of the fedayeen, and is a johnny-come-lately to the ongoing "keel the jews" ideology of the palestinians.
I don't need to understand them. I am just grateful for the IDF being able to protect my country from their murderous lunacy.

The more of them that get well-deserved dirt-naps, the better.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/934431.html
An Israel Air Force strike killed three Palestinian militants (including Sami Tafesh) in Gaza City on Thursday evening, after they were detected firing a Qassam rocket at Israel.

Badda-bing, badda-bang.

completely irrelevant musings as usual....do you have any commitment at all to comment on the question? Can you add anything to the list past "because we are Jews"?

webfusion · 13th December 2007, 08:36 PM

I'm ignoring your question, OK?

E.J.Armstrong · 17th December 2007, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by firecoins

Becarful you dont get childish.

Oh no - a threat.

When my car gets full I will be very afraid.

Be careful (note proopeer spellink) you don't get silly. Rolls eyes even more widely.

How many children have the IDF killed? Is it more or less than Hamas?

Difficult question for those who can't spell - like me.

E.J.Armstrong · 17th December 2007, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

I'm ignoring your question, OK?

http://home.comcast.net/~advent99/f_hamas.jpg

So what's new?

E.J.Armstrong · 17th December 2007, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

I'm not "taking' any side here -- I am on the side that needs to defend itself from rockets flying into our towns and cities.

Congratulations webfusion on supporting the Palestinians as well as israelis.

Your lack of taking sides is commendable.

8th November 2006, 11:56 AM	#1
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	19 Palestinians Killed - Hamas Vows Retaliation Quote: GAZA CITY (CNN) -- Hamas' exiled political leader has vowed to retaliate after Israeli troops killed 19 Palestinian civilians, many of them women and children, during a military operation in northern Gaza, according to Palestinian medical sources. "I call upon all resistance factions to activate their resistance programs," Khaled Mashaal said at a news conference in Syria, according to a translation from The Associated Press. "The cowardly act of Zionists (Israelis) requires a legitimate Palestinian action. "We have big trust in our military wings, which will reply on this aggression and resist occupation and retaliate for those victims." The bloodshed occurred early Wednesday with Israeli tanks poised just outside the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanoun. The tanks fired 10 artillery rounds into the town's center and killed 19 people, the medical sources said. Among the dead was a 13-member family which included seven children, the sources said. The other six killed were also civilians, they said. Hamas' militant wing, the Izzedine al-Qassam Brigade, issued a statement blaming the United States for the killings, and called on all Muslim nations "to teach the American enemy a harsh lesson." "America provides the political material and logistical cover for the crimes of the Zionist occupation (Israel) and it is responsible, before the occupation (Israel), for the massacre of Beit Hanoun," the statement said. Quote: Israel criticized Officials from the U.N., Britain and the EU quickly criticized Israel's action. U.N. Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process Alvaro de Soto urged the "Palestinian side" to stop attacking Israelis. In his statement, de Soto said he was "deeply shocked and appalled" by the Israeli military action earlier in the day that killed "a score of civilians including many women and children." The statement comes a week after U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan expressed his "deep concern" regarding the rising death toll caused by military operations in northern Gaza. EU's external relations chief Benita Ferrero-Waldner described the attack on Wednesday morning as a "profoundly shocking event." EU Foreign Policy chief Javier Solana offered his condolences to the families of the Palestinian civilians killed and to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas. "It is high time to break the cycle of violence that I condemn in the strongest terms," Solana said in a written statement. He called on the resumption of dialogue between the ruling Hamas party and Abbas' moderate Fatah party. British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said she was "gravely disturbed" by the reported deaths, and urged Israel to "respect its obligation to avoid harming civilians." "It is hard to see what this action was meant to achieve and how it can be justified," she added in her statement. She also said rocket attacks by Palestinian militants "are also unacceptable" and called on both sides to abide by international humanitarian law "and to do their utmost to avoid harming civilians, especially children." Quote: Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Defense Minister Amir Peretz later in the day expressed their regret over the civilian deaths, a government spokesman said. Olmert ordered an "urgent investigation" into the matter and halted artillery fire in Gaza until the investigation was complete, the spokesman added. IDF confirmed it had "fired preventative artillery" at rocket launch sites in Beit Hanoun to "disrupt and thwart the launching of Qassam rockets." More than 10 Qassam rockets were launched from the area into Israel in the past day, according to the IDF. Two of those rockets landed in the Israeli town of Sderot, wounding one civilian. The IDF said initial reports indicated the artillery fire was fired "at a location distant from the one reportedly hit," but added that the military was investigating the incident. Israel also said an anti-tank missile was fired at an Israeli force east of Jabalya refugee camp, just south of Beit Hanoun. Link From another site on the same story: Quote: Hamas warns of suicide bombings The Hamas-led Palestinian cabinet convened for an emergency meeting. Hamas spokesman Ghazi Hamad called for Israel to be expelled from the United Nations, saying it was an “animal, brutal state.” In a huge demonstration outside the morgue at the Kamal Adwan hospital in the northern Gaza Strip, thousands called for revenge. “We are going to fight against the so-called Israel. We are going to launch our rockets, our martyrs are going to sacrifice their lives in the depths of our occupied land,” said Nizar Rayan, a Hamas leader in northern Gaza. “They will strike in Jaffa, in Haifa, inside Ashdod. The battle will continue. The rifle is not going to be set down. All of us are martyrs in waiting. Revenge is coming.” The militant group Islamic Jihad also called for revenge. “Martyrdom is coming,” it said in a statement, referring to suicide bombings. “The response will not take long, because the time is ready for punishment, and the time is ready for revenge.” Link Disturbing developments.
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

8th November 2006, 12:03 PM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by Katana Link From another site on the same story: Link Disturbing developments. Excuse of the week for fifty, Alex. There is much fun to be had. At least you can count on the Isr/Pal gang for entertainment. IDF: shoot some people Pal: retaliate IDF: shoot some people Pal: retaliate Rinse and repeat. You can even have the Pals start the sequence, no one would notice. These folks need a new script writer. The Pals are just mad that the Israeli tank fire is more effective than their rocket fire. Envy is a damaging emotion. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 8th November 2006 at 12:05 PM.

8th November 2006, 12:06 PM	#4
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by Major Billy How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people? It gives many of them a reason to live. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

8th November 2006, 02:38 PM	#5
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Originally Posted by Major Billy How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people? It fuels rally cries for Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

8th November 2006, 08:12 PM	#7
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by webfusion DR suggests: General Dayton is preparing a new scenario as we speak. http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/10/0...5crossing.html The security coordinator, Lt. Gen. Keith W. Dayton, is in talks with Mr. Abbas to reduce the number of overlapping Palestinian security services in order to create a single national police force on the model of Italy’s carabinieri. The US-sponsored $26 million plan is to strengthen Mr. Abbas and bring in the (Jordanian-Palestinian) Badr Brigade to Gaza. The Italians have three levels of Police. The Policia, the Carabinieri, and La Guardia di Finanza. The Carabinieri are, shall we say, slightly corrupt. Be careful what you wish for. On the other hand, since the Pals are old hands at corruption, the Carabinieri are doubtless a great model for them. They are snappy dressers, so that's a plus. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

8th November 2006, 12:04 PM	#3
Major Billy Thinker Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ioway Posts: 248	How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people?

8th November 2006, 08:10 PM	#6
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	DR suggests: Quote: These folks need a new script writer. General Dayton is preparing a new scenario as we speak. http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/10/0...5crossing.html The security coordinator, Lt. Gen. Keith W. Dayton, is in talks with Mr. Abbas to reduce the number of overlapping Palestinian security services in order to create a single national police force on the model of Italy’s carabinieri. The US-sponsored $26 million plan is to strengthen Mr. Abbas and bring in the (Jordanian-Palestinian) Badr Brigade to Gaza.

9th November 2006, 10:53 AM	#8
E.J.Armstrong Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,825	Originally Posted by Katana Disturbing developments. Very distrurbing. It seems that the IDF and Hamas care little about killing children
	__________________ “Everybody is somebody’s Jew. And today the Palestinians are the Jews of the Israelis.” Primo Levi Capitalist (n) Someone who pays himself and his friends billions of dollars of your money as a reward for destroying your entire economy. Israelis are taught that Palestinians are not human beings like them. Gideon Levy The Punishment of Gaza

9th November 2006, 10:57 AM	#9
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,191	Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong Very distrurbing. It seems that the IDF and Hamas care little about killing children Becarful you dont get childish.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

9th November 2006, 11:02 AM	#10
Cello Man Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,035	Everyone in the Middle East needs to take up a hobby. Let's air-drop a few thousand tons of Sudoku puzzle books onto the whole region. Seriously, at what point does the novelty of all this wear off?
	__________________ This is my Timey-Wimey Detector. It goes "DING!" when there's stuff. - The Doctor

11th December 2007, 05:57 AM	#11
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	*bump* Quote: Seriously, at what point does the novelty of all this wear off? This thread, from 2006, needs some updating: 1. Israeli troops with their armored force just moved into Gaza, and the resulting tank fire and targeted airstrikes have killed more than 20 palestinians in the past few days. 2. Hamas vows retaliation. 3. US General Dayton has been supplemented by US General (ret.) James Jones. While IAF aircraft provided cover, dozens of IDF tanks and armored vehicles moved into Gaza on Tuesday morning, setting off clashes with Palestinian militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and mortar rounds.

11th December 2007, 06:07 AM	#12
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,369	"Why do they hate us"? I guess the Palestinians hate the Jews because their freedoms. Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me... [/sarcam] [/analogy]
	__________________

11th December 2007, 06:36 AM	#13
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Originally Posted by Oliver "Why do they hate us"? I guess the Palestinians hate the Jews because of their (the jews) freedoms. Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me... [/sarcam] [/analogy] What does this have to do with the ongoing/renewed war inside the Gaza Strip? (thread topic)
	__________________ "You support Israel. Enough said." -- mxwarrior, a rabid anti-Israel JREF poster (now banned) offered this in trying to dismiss all comments offered in rebuttal to him by those JREF'ers who use logic, facts, valid sources, and reality.

11th December 2007, 06:53 AM	#14
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by webfusion This thread, from 2006, needs some updating: 1. Israeli troops with their armored force just moved into Gaza, and the resulting tank fire and targeted airstrikes have killed more than 20 palestinians in the past few days. 2. Hamas vows retaliation. 3. US General Dayton has been supplemented by US General (ret.) James Jones. While IAF aircraft provided cover, dozens of IDF tanks and armored vehicles moved into Gaza on Tuesday morning, setting off clashes with Palestinian militants firing rocket-propelled grenades and mortar rounds. I am so glad this is happening. We are getting inundated with Christmas specials on TV, a good battle in Gaza is just the thing to brighten up the holiday TV season. Please send my thanks to the IDF and the Pals of Hamas, they really know how to cheer a guy up. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

11th December 2007, 07:11 AM	#15
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor I am so glad this is happening. We are getting inundated with Christmas specials on TV, a good battle in Gaza is just the thing to brighten up the holiday TV season. Please send my thanks to the IDF and the Pals of Hamas, they really know how to cheer a guy up. The reality is --- little TV coverage will be forthcoming. As far as the major TV News Networks are concerned, this isn't even happening. It's non-news. Search google, and lo and behold, Al Jazeera is carrying the story, and AP is making a valiant effort (and their stringers in Gaza are trying to film) -- Two Israeli tank shells struck a multi-story building, sending people scrambling for cover. An AP cameraman and several other journalists at the scene suffered minor injuries and shock. (search phrase: "Israel gaza incursion") CTV.ca carries the AP file report.
	__________________ "You support Israel. Enough said." -- mxwarrior, a rabid anti-Israel JREF poster (now banned) offered this in trying to dismiss all comments offered in rebuttal to him by those JREF'ers who use logic, facts, valid sources, and reality. Last edited by webfusion; 11th December 2007 at 07:13 AM. Reason: Link added

11th December 2007, 09:07 AM	#16
Praktik Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Tee Dot Posts: 4,257	Originally Posted by Major Billy How much good has years of violence done the Palestinian people? Wrong question - how much good has violence done for either side? Israelis may be materially better off, but both sides have come out worse off from their crazies who urge irrational retribrution instead of compromise. Maintaining a brutal occupation has cost the Israelies a lot - just as perpetrating acts of terror have cost the Palestinians a lot.

11th December 2007, 11:16 AM	#17
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,369	Originally Posted by webfusion What does this have to do with the ongoing/renewed war inside the Gaza Strip? (thread topic) It's still the same conflict. There are no saints nor "evildoers" in this conflict anymore. It's all one crap and to take a side is as bad as having no opinion. Israelis are responsible. Palestinians are responsible. Simple as that. It's time to handle this Issue in a neutral way. I'm getting sick and tired of listening to arguments like "Oh, the poor Israelis" or "Oh, the poor Palestinians". Same goes to the US Media rather tending to say:" Oh, the poor Israelis" than "Oh, those poor Palestinians". It's all related. It's just a matter of oversight and neutrality concerning this issue.
	__________________ Last edited by Oliver; 11th December 2007 at 11:17 AM.

11th December 2007, 01:04 PM	#18
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by Oliver I Simple as that. It's time to handle this Issue in a neutral way. Can we expect the German government to lead the way? Are they seen as neutral, honest brokers by both sides. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

11th December 2007, 01:15 PM	#19
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Damn, for a second I thought Katana had returned.

11th December 2007, 01:20 PM	#20
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,369	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Can we expect the German government to lead the way? Are they seen as neutral, honest brokers by both sides. DR Unfortunately, no. Germans current Government doesn't have the Guts to oppose their American friends (Government). So I wouldn't bet my hopes on them - you probably may lose...
	__________________ Last edited by Oliver; 11th December 2007 at 01:21 PM.

11th December 2007, 02:24 PM	#21
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,894	Quote: British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said she was "gravely disturbed" by the reported deaths, and urged Israel to "respect its obligation to avoid harming civilians." Huh? How old is this article?

11th December 2007, 02:29 PM	#22
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,146	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus Huh? How old is this article? This thread is over a year old.

11th December 2007, 03:36 PM	#23
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor The Italians have three levels of Police. The Policia, the Carabinieri, and La Guardia di Finanza. Policia????? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Originally Posted by Darth Rotor The Carabinieri are, shall we say, slightly corrupt. Really? Are you sure? Why? The " Guardia di Finanza " is not?
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371

11th December 2007, 04:53 PM	#24
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,930	Isn't insanity repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

11th December 2007, 04:54 PM	#25
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	A year has passed -- the headlines remain the same Quote: It's all one crap and to take a side is as bad as having no opinion. I'm not "taking' any side here -- I am on the side that needs to defend itself from rockets flying into our towns and cities. It should always be recalled, that prior to the 1967 "occupation", Israel was constantly under attack from mortars and rockets, both from Gaza and the Golan Heights, as well as across the Green Lines (1949 Rhodes Armistice). Go back to 1955, 1956, and the same sort of 'crap' (to use Oliver's turn of phrase) was being perpetrated out of the Gaza Strip. Israel invaded, put a stop to it, and withdrew at the urging of the International Community, which guaranteed the attacks wouldn't continue, and the 1949 Armistice would be respected again. B.S. -- by June 1967, Israel found itself once more embroiled in defending itself from attacks. And here we are, 40-years on. Are the islamic Jihadists attacking us because of the 1967 "occupation" or are we being attacked because of breaking the 1949 Rhodes Armistice, or because of what?

11th December 2007, 05:15 PM	#26
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by webfusion And here we are, 40-years on. Are the islamic Jihadists attacking us because of the 1967 "occupation" or are we being attacked because of breaking the 1949 Rhodes Armistice, or because of what? I think its the bagels... But seriously, let me know if you ever figure out why all sides in this thing have hated enemies. Its probably not a secret, have you though of asking them? I'm pretty sure I know why you consider Hamas et al your enemies, they fire weapons at you... I don't think Hamas will mind telling you why they do it.
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

11th December 2007, 06:12 PM	#27
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,346	Originally Posted by Matteo Martini Policia????? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Um, what was the joke?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

11th December 2007, 06:57 PM	#28
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371	Originally Posted by a_unique_person Um, what was the joke? Not a joke, just a ( funny ) mispelling. Please, go ahead, and sorry for the ( my ) interruption..
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371

11th December 2007, 08:31 PM	#29
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	Quote: I don't think Hamas will mind telling you why they do it. You're absolutely correct, T-F, it's not a huge secret. HAMAS specifies their reasons clearly in their Sacred Covenant: Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the (Jewish) enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized. There is nothing about that declared islamic struggle which relates to any specific events of 1897 (Basel) , 1947 (UN, New York), or 1957 (Gaza), 1967 (Gaza again), or 1987 (Gaza, beginning of intifada) or even 2007 (Gaza, go figure).
	Last edited by webfusion; 11th December 2007 at 08:33 PM.

12th December 2007, 03:17 PM	#30
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by webfusion You're absolutely correct, T-F, it's not a huge secret. HAMAS specifies their reasons clearly in their Sacred Covenant: Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the (Jewish) enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized. There is nothing about that declared islamic struggle which relates to any specific events of 1897 (Basel) , 1947 (UN, New York), or 1957 (Gaza), 1967 (Gaza again), or 1987 (Gaza, beginning of intifada) or even 2007 (Gaza, go figure). do you think that statement refers to why they attack you? It seems to me to simply say that they take it very seriously and will never stop...but nothing much about why. maybe we can approach it from a different angle. How about you put out a list of things that Hamas are not allowed to hate you for?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

13th December 2007, 05:30 AM	#31
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	T-F continues to attempt to rationalize islamic-fundamentalist terrorism: Quote: How about you put out a list of things that Hamas are not allowed to hate you for? HAMAS, like all the 'fedayyin' that preceeded them, and like other islamic-terrorist organizations throughout the MidEast, are interested in Islamic conquest as an overall aim. Even if Israel was not an independent State, the overall root hatred of islamic-fundamentalists against the jews would remain a motivating factor. And I'll even go one step farther --- For that matter, the overall root rejection of all religions that are not "Islam" would remain in effect. The jews are but one prime example. (and the fundamentalists would direct their hatred inwards, against each-other, as witnessed by the current insanity of Iraq, where car-bombs go off willy-nilly: yesterday, Four car bombs killed at least 33 people in Iraq) http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...uKnSXs5QrBKD3w Israelis perfectly understand that they must prevent this type of thing from becoming the norm within their tiny land, and are doing what is needed to keep the terrorists at bay. HAMAS is a virulent terrorist organization, certainly no less a threat to civilized humanity than Al-Quaeda. OK, T-F, would you ask for "list" of the grievances from Al-Quaeda?
	Last edited by webfusion; 13th December 2007 at 05:31 AM.

13th December 2007, 09:22 AM	#32
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,289	Originally Posted by Matteo Martini Policia????? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Hmm, Polizia. Wonder why I did that? shrugs Quote: Really? Are you sure? Why? The " Guardia di Finanza " is not? Let's see, you are the Italian. Is the suggestion here that the Carabinieri are clean as fresh fallen snow? My military colleagues didn't seem to think so, the ones from Italy. shrugs I take their word for it. I don't know if La Guardia Di Finanza is corrupt or not. I do know our NIS, and they, (and perhaps some of the Carbs) worked on a well publicized joint drug bust in the Naples area, in 1996. A dozen American servicemen, and some Italians, were caught running heroin, cocaine, and some speed (IIRC) in what became known as the White Stallion ring. (It was all over the DoD newspaper Stars and Stripes for some time.) DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

13th December 2007, 02:40 PM	#33
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	Originally Posted by webfusion T-F continues to attempt to rationalize islamic-fundamentalist terrorism: Not rationalize web, just knowing what motivates them and understanding why they do what they do. Identifying issues is normally the first step in fixing them, but addressing the issues by chanting slogans may be more comfortable for some... Quote: HAMAS, like all the 'fedayyin' that preceeded them, and like other islamic-terrorist organizations throughout the MidEast, are interested in Islamic conquest as an overall aim. To be honest web I'm getting a little bit tired of this one...I heard it about the commies for years. "Evil hordes bent on world conquest" Quote: Even if Israel was not an independent State, the overall root hatred of islamic-fundamentalists against the jews would remain a motivating factor. And I'll even go one step farther --- For that matter, the overall root rejection of all religions that are not "Islam" would remain in effect. The jews are but one prime example. (and the fundamentalists would direct their hatred inwards, against each-other, as witnessed by the current insanity of Iraq, where car-bombs go off willy-nilly: yesterday, Four car bombs killed at least 33 people in Iraq) http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...uKnSXs5QrBKD3w Israelis perfectly understand that they must prevent this type of thing from becoming the norm within their tiny land, and are doing what is needed to keep the terrorists at bay. HAMAS is a virulent terrorist organization, certainly no less a threat to civilized humanity than Al-Quaeda. OK, T-F, would you ask for "list" of the grievances from Al-Quaeda? I don't have to web, It is common knowledge what thier grievances were/are. And it isn't restricted to "because we are not muslims" Here is a challenge for you. Start a list head it "why Hamas attack Israel" put point 1 as "because we are Jews". How many more points can you add to the list?
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how. Last edited by The Fool; 13th December 2007 at 02:42 PM.

13th December 2007, 03:05 PM	#34
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Hmm, Polizia. Wonder why I did that? shrugs Let's see, you are the Italian. Is the suggestion here that the Carabinieri are clean as fresh fallen snow? My military colleagues didn't seem to think so, the ones from Italy. shrugs I take their word for it. Your colleagues are right..
Matteo Martini Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,371

13th December 2007, 07:34 PM	#35
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Near I-95 Posts: 6,216	TF thinks he understands Quote: ...understanding why they do what they do... Between 1949 and 1956, 400 Israelis were killed and 900 wounded by fedayeen attacks. HAMAS is only the modern incarnation of the fedayeen, and is a johnny-come-lately to the ongoing "keel the jews" ideology of the palestinians. I don't need to understand them. I am just grateful for the IDF being able to protect my country from their murderous lunacy. The more of them that get well-deserved dirt-naps, the better. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/934431.html An Israel Air Force strike killed three Palestinian militants (including Sami Tafesh) in Gaza City on Thursday evening, after they were detected firing a Qassam rocket at Israel. Badda-bing, badda-bang.
	Last edited by webfusion; 13th December 2007 at 07:36 PM.