This is no fun

GreyWanderer · 24th June 2003, 04:27 PM

What should we discuss about magicians when we can't reveal any secrets? (;

rustypouch · 24th June 2003, 04:39 PM

Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur.

The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art.

GreyWanderer · 24th June 2003, 04:42 PM

I guess that would make this a really small forum. Anyway, I guess some magic tricks are so simple they are considered public knowledge.

24th June 2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rustypouch
Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur.

The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art.

that's an interesting idea. I can't get to it for a while, but please remind me of it later. I am not sure exactly what our software can do right now in that area.

I see this forum as a place to talk about magic, since Mr Randi is a world-class conjuror. But not as a place to talk about, well, you know.

Supercharts · 24th June 2003, 04:48 PM

Is it OK to ask questions if the answers don't reveal anything about magic?

24th June 2003, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Supercharts
Is it OK to ask questions if the answers don't reveal anything about magic?

absolutely. In fact, it's ok to ask any question, it's just not ok to reveal the secret.

rustypouch · 24th June 2003, 04:55 PM

Just don't be surprised if the answer to 'How did they do that?' is 'magic.'

tamiO · 24th June 2003, 05:09 PM

My Dad used to pull quarters from behind my ear.

Anyone know how he did that?

Dogwood · 24th June 2003, 05:12 PM

Yes.

Blue Monk · 24th June 2003, 05:16 PM

I had an ex=girlfriend that could make my paycheck disappear.

Never did figure that one out.

Doubt · 24th June 2003, 05:26 PM

How long before we get a thread about famous bad magicians?

On possible tell of a bad magician is that they spend more time on their hair than on their tricks…..

Not naming any names here…..

Dogwood · 24th June 2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreyWanderer
What should we discuss about magicians when we can't reveal any secrets? (;

You know, this does sound a bit odd coming from someone named after THE modern wizard archetype.

renata · 24th June 2003, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rustypouch
Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur.

The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art.

On Ian Rowland's site there is a protected area for magicians. To get in, you have to answer such a question. It is a great idea- it kept me out

Kimpatsu · 24th June 2003, 06:41 PM

I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows. So does the masked magician, the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones. Put another way, why can't we discuss what has already been revealed elsewhere on the Internet.

Dogwood · 24th June 2003, 07:00 PM

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows.

Pen and Teller reveal very basic tricks that can be found in any children's book of magic as a basis for their routines. They don't reveal how they're actually doing it, they just make you think they do.

So does the masked magician,

Among the most hated and reviled people in the magic community.

the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones.

Their purpose is to make money by giving away secrets because they don't have the talent to make it without masks on.

Tricks aren't just hoarded secrets. Many are also intellectual property. I respect that.

NoZed Avenger · 24th June 2003, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows. So does the masked magician, the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones.

The purpose was for a mediocre talent to cash in and make money for effects created and perfected by others. . . Not that he actually revealed much modern stuff, anyway, buit the idea was -not- to "push" performers into new, dizzying heights of magic, it was for a quick buck.

25th June 2003, 12:51 AM

I'm a pro magician and the revealing of tricks bothers me not at all, for several reasons.

It is neccessary in order to inspire budding performers, and lots of stuff is available in books on library shelves anyway (which is where I picked it up myself).

Most people who seek out secrets must be interested in the subject, and if that tiny fraction that just wants to "bust magicians" (and I'm not sure such a sub-group actually exists) isn't really interested enough to actually remember the details. And if, while watching a magic show, they remember that once they found out the secret to this or that trick, what are they going to do? Sit there and nod smugly? So what?

As to the predictable argument that revealing secrets ruins magic performances for people, I would point to the TV shows that reveal secrets of cinema special effects, and mention that these seem not to have sated the public's appetite for movie spectacles. In fact, I think it makes them appreciate it more than ever.

Still, I will respect the moderators' request for secrecy within this forum.

Rastelli

A proud member of the prestidigitory industry

Diamond · 25th June 2003, 02:55 AM

Why can't we create ideas for some new illusions here?

25th June 2003, 03:21 AM

Diamond:
<Why can't we create ideas for some new illusions here?>

I've got one: the magician reaches down his own throat and pulls himself inside out.

Rastelli

Cain · 25th June 2003, 08:29 AM

I too do not understand this rule. Does a google search check archived posts on this forum? People would only discover this board after visiting the general site for another reason.

A simple password question would be nice (preferably not one easily answered by searching the Net). One magician's site I remember visiting awhile ago asked "who's known as the 'Professor'?"

Andonyx · 25th June 2003, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by renata

On Ian Rowland's site there is a protected area for magicians. To get in, you have to answer such a question. It is a great idea- it kept me out

You know that is super easy to crack by search engine.

It says on Rowland's site specifically that it is designed NOT to be able to be found by search. But I typed in a couple of unusual words into a specific search engine, and BOOM! First entry that came up.

rustypouch · 25th June 2003, 01:31 PM

Why I have issues with revealing the secrets of tricks is that most people who ask are not interested in magic. They just feel insulted that they were fooled, and will often tell others the secret.

What most pepole don't realise is how much pratice goes into learning a new trick. For a moderatly difficult card trick, sometimes I pratice for an hour a night for a fortnight before I show it to someone, and by telling the secret I effectivly negate all the effort I've put into learning the trick.

By the time I show a trick to someone, I have it to the point where it looks 'easy,' and pepole think that there's nothing to a trick.

I have no problem with revealing secrets to people who genuinely want to learn, it's the people who can't stand not knowing that I don't tell.

SteveW · 25th June 2003, 03:54 PM

The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be:

What is the use of women?

Answer: You can't do the sub trunk without 'em.

24th June 2003, 04:27 PM	#1
GreyWanderer Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 140	This is no fun What should we discuss about magicians when we can't reveal any secrets? (;
GreyWanderer Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 140	__________________ "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord Of The Rings

24th June 2003, 04:42 PM	#3
GreyWanderer Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 140	I guess that would make this a really small forum. Anyway, I guess some magic tricks are so simple they are considered public knowledge.
GreyWanderer Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 140	__________________ "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." - J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord Of The Rings

24th June 2003, 04:42 PM	#4
hal bidlack Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by rustypouch Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur. The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art. that's an interesting idea. I can't get to it for a while, but please remind me of it later. I am not sure exactly what our software can do right now in that area. I see this forum as a place to talk about magic, since Mr Randi is a world-class conjuror. But not as a place to talk about, well, you know.
hal bidlack Guest Posts: n/a

24th June 2003, 04:52 PM	#6
hal bidlack Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Supercharts Is it OK to ask questions if the answers don't reveal anything about magic? absolutely. In fact, it's ok to ask any question, it's just not ok to reveal the secret.
hal bidlack Guest Posts: n/a

24th June 2003, 05:09 PM	#8
tamiO Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,287	My Dad used to pull quarters from behind my ear. Anyone know how he did that?
tamiO Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,287

24th June 2003, 04:39 PM	#2
rustypouch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary... Posts: 2,585	Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur. The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art.

24th June 2003, 04:48 PM	#5
Supercharts Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,184	Is it OK to ask questions if the answers don't reveal anything about magic?

24th June 2003, 04:55 PM	#7
rustypouch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary... Posts: 2,585	Just don't be surprised if the answer to 'How did they do that?' is 'magic.'

24th June 2003, 05:12 PM	#9
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Yes.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

24th June 2003, 05:16 PM	#10
Blue Monk Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,759	I had an ex=girlfriend that could make my paycheck disappear. Never did figure that one out.
	__________________ Veni, Vidi, Velcro I came, I saw, I stuck around

24th June 2003, 05:26 PM	#11
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	How long before we get a thread about famous bad magicians? On possible tell of a bad magician is that they spend more time on their hair than on their tricks….. Not naming any names here…..
Doubt Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 3,706	__________________ Doubt world tour locations: Tolyatti, Russia again. Oct. 21 to Nov. something-or-other. Monterrey, Mexico? Russia again? Maybe? Disclaimer: Not a high energy scientist!

24th June 2003, 05:49 PM	#12
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Re: This is no fun Quote: Originally posted by GreyWanderer What should we discuss about magicians when we can't reveal any secrets? (; You know, this does sound a bit odd coming from someone named after THE modern wizard archetype.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

24th June 2003, 06:33 PM	#13
renata Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,334	Quote: Originally posted by rustypouch Perhaps there should be some sort of protected forum for magicians, both professional and amateur. The qualifications for entry could be some sort of question where the answer would not be known by those who don't pratice the art. On Ian Rowland's site there is a protected area for magicians. To get in, you have to answer such a question. It is a great idea- it kept me out
renata Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 3,334	__________________ The 2006 Skepchick Calendar Smart is sexy. Who is this renata person?... the local nutcase?- GP 2/15/05

24th June 2003, 06:41 PM	#14
Kimpatsu Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Tokyo Posts: 3,136	I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows. So does the masked magician, the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones. Put another way, why can't we discuss what has already been revealed elsewhere on the Internet.
	__________________ Tony Kehoe "Most people, I believe, think that you need a God to explain the existence of the world, and especially the existence of life. They are wrong, but our education system is such that many people don't know it. "--Richard Dawkins

24th June 2003, 07:00 PM	#15
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Originally posted by Kimpatsu I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows. Pen and Teller reveal very basic tricks that can be found in any children's book of magic as a basis for their routines. They don't reveal how they're actually doing it, they just make you think they do. So does the masked magician, Among the most hated and reviled people in the magic community. the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones. Their purpose is to make money by giving away secrets because they don't have the talent to make it without masks on. Tricks aren't just hoarded secrets. Many are also intellectual property. I respect that.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

24th June 2003, 07:02 PM	#16
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,411	Quote: Originally posted by Kimpatsu I don't see why secrets can't be disclosed, as even Penn and Teller (special guests at next years Amaz!ng Meeting!) do it on their TV shows. So does the masked magician, the purpose being to goad professional conjurers into creating newer and better illusions, rather than relying on the same old stale ones. The purpose was for a mediocre talent to cash in and make money for effects created and perfected by others. . . Not that he actually revealed much modern stuff, anyway, buit the idea was -not- to "push" performers into new, dizzying heights of magic, it was for a quick buck.

25th June 2003, 12:51 AM	#17
Rastelli Guest Posts: n/a	I'm a pro magician and the revealing of tricks bothers me not at all, for several reasons. It is neccessary in order to inspire budding performers, and lots of stuff is available in books on library shelves anyway (which is where I picked it up myself). Most people who seek out secrets must be interested in the subject, and if that tiny fraction that just wants to "bust magicians" (and I'm not sure such a sub-group actually exists) isn't really interested enough to actually remember the details. And if, while watching a magic show, they remember that once they found out the secret to this or that trick, what are they going to do? Sit there and nod smugly? So what? As to the predictable argument that revealing secrets ruins magic performances for people, I would point to the TV shows that reveal secrets of cinema special effects, and mention that these seem not to have sated the public's appetite for movie spectacles. In fact, I think it makes them appreciate it more than ever. Still, I will respect the moderators' request for secrecy within this forum. Rastelli A proud member of the prestidigitory industry
Rastelli Guest Posts: n/a

25th June 2003, 02:55 AM	#18
Diamond SkepticWiki Founder Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 'Stralia Posts: 4,748	Why can't we create ideas for some new illusions here?

25th June 2003, 03:21 AM	#19
Rastelli Guest Posts: n/a	Diamond: <Why can't we create ideas for some new illusions here?> I've got one: the magician reaches down his own throat and pulls himself inside out. Rastelli
Rastelli Guest Posts: n/a

25th June 2003, 08:29 AM	#20
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,825	I too do not understand this rule. Does a google search check archived posts on this forum? People would only discover this board after visiting the general site for another reason. A simple password question would be nice (preferably not one easily answered by searching the Net). One magician's site I remember visiting awhile ago asked "who's known as the 'Professor'?"
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

25th June 2003, 10:37 AM	#21
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Quote: Originally posted by renata On Ian Rowland's site there is a protected area for magicians. To get in, you have to answer such a question. It is a great idea- it kept me out You know that is super easy to crack by search engine. It says on Rowland's site specifically that it is designed NOT to be able to be found by search. But I typed in a couple of unusual words into a specific search engine, and BOOM! First entry that came up.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

25th June 2003, 01:31 PM	#22
rustypouch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary... Posts: 2,585	Why I have issues with revealing the secrets of tricks is that most people who ask are not interested in magic. They just feel insulted that they were fooled, and will often tell others the secret. What most pepole don't realise is how much pratice goes into learning a new trick. For a moderatly difficult card trick, sometimes I pratice for an hour a night for a fortnight before I show it to someone, and by telling the secret I effectivly negate all the effort I've put into learning the trick. By the time I show a trick to someone, I have it to the point where it looks 'easy,' and pepole think that there's nothing to a trick. I have no problem with revealing secrets to people who genuinely want to learn, it's the people who can't stand not knowing that I don't tell.

25th June 2003, 03:54 PM	#23
SteveW Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 265	The question for joining the protected forum for real magicians should be: What is the use of women? Answer: You can't do the sub trunk without 'em.
SteveW Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 265