Magic protocols

Dogwood · 24th June 2003, 04:58 PM

I'm very tickled about this new forum and I applaud the decision to keep it a secret free zone. If you wanna know how to do a trick, buy it or figure it out for yourself. My favorite site to purchase magic from is penguin magic. Their prices are fantastic, the customer service is high, and they have a huge assortment of tricks to choose from. They also have private forums that allow you to discuss secrets with others who have purchased the same trick and more general discussion forums where conjurors know how to discuss something without giving the details away. I recommend a visit for anyone interested in discussing magic with professionals.

CompletelyUnoriginal · 25th June 2003, 08:19 AM

And how much of a kick-back are you getting from them?

Dogwood · 25th June 2003, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CompletelyUnoriginal
And how much of a kick-back are you getting from them?

Not a pfennig. I just like the site and the service I've received.

SteveW · 25th June 2003, 03:52 PM

Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects. I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too.

Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect.

As to the mentalist stuff, there are better, higher quality small firms out there. Sure it costs a bundle (my spirit table was over $1000) but it's worth it in the long run.

Dogwood · 25th June 2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by SteveW
Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects. I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too.

Well, I don't have much to compare to, but the items I've purchased there seem to be well made and of high quality. Their prices are excellent compared to other sites I've purused also. Yes, they sell a lot of "tricks" and gaffed decks, but they also offer a lot of instructional books and videos (Bobo's coin book as an example). Additionally they are available for questions and discussion about their products and have demonstration videos for most of the products. They offer free shipping and they've frequently gone out of their way to help me with an order. The service is simply incredible.

Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect.

I agree completely. I'm still working on my Elmsly count for pete's sake. And I'll be very proud of myself when I can do it properly, but until then, the Invisible deck and the Stripper deck are still pretty cool. (And my 4 year old nephew thinks Lite Flite is massively cool, but I'd never do it in front of a pro)

As to the mentalist stuff, there are better, higher quality small firms out there. Sure it costs a bundle (my spirit table was over $1000) but it's worth it in the long run.

I've purchased a few items from Ian Rowlands site and am considering a few others. Any recommendations you'd care to make?

rustypouch · 25th June 2003, 04:59 PM

While I don't have as much respect for packet tricks as for others, they can be effective if presented well.

Just look at David Blaine. In his specials he uses the invisible deck, the rising deck, and the raven. These are just what I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure he uses more than this.

This just shows that simple tricks can work well if presented properly. I have these effects and I love them. I almost always have my raven with me, as it is simple and has a powerful effect on people.

Cain · 26th June 2003, 05:06 PM

I've been perusing that site, watching the videos, and I even purchased a couple cheap tricks.

But does that "D'lite" trick really work up close? Maybe only in the corner of a darkened bar with a half-drunk spectator...

Dogwood · 26th June 2003, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cain
I've been perusing that site, watching the videos, and I even purchased a couple cheap tricks.

But does that "D'lite" trick really work up close? Maybe only in the corner of a darkened bar with a half-drunk spectator...

Not too up close. But darkness isn't necessary. As all tricks of this nature, you have to watch your angles. Kids seem to like it a lot. Adults won't be as impressed. But if you're going to buy it, I recommend buying two. A lot more options that way.

GroundStrength · 27th June 2003, 10:28 AM

Wow this is actually turning out to be ok.

D'lite is pretty good you just need to keep things moving and put together a routine. Don't just do the effect. Two is definately better.

Mark:
If you want some good mentalist stuff you need to get "Thirteen Steps" by Corrinda and maybe "Mind, Myth and Magic". That's one I keep going back to and finding great info in.

Voob · 15th July 2003, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects.

I don't think you checked out the site very much. There are plenty of effects, with and without gimmicks, that require sleights to perform.

Quote:

I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too.

Let's face it, some great effects are in fact technically easy to learn. "Do As I Do", "Out fo This World" two of the great card tricks, can be learned in no time, and are at least as impressive as, say, an anti-faro shuffle, to a non-magician.

Quote:

Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect.

For whom? Other magicians!
"Deep Astonishment", anyone?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of cheap, low-quality effects that rely too heavily on gimmicks, but for those of us who couldn't learn from Dai Vernon personally, I'm grateful there's a place to buy books to learn from the masters, and to see where modern-day inventors are taking the craft.

Voob

(edited to change Oil & Water to OOTW)

NoZed Avenger · 15th July 2003, 09:25 AM

On the web, I have not dealt with penguin -- I have used Denny & Lee on several occasions, and had very good experiences. The pricing is good and everything went smoothly. The staff was willing to answer questions about several effects and helped me pick the one that was the best fit for what I wanted.

NA

No kick-backs for this, unfortunately.

Edited to add: I have also bought one or two items from Hank Lee without any problems. Might as well give a plug there, too.

Dogwood · 15th July 2003, 04:38 PM

Since this got bumped back up, I'm curious as to what some of you think of Jay Sankey, who has a line of tricks on Penguin. I bought one of his DVD collections which I thought was brilliant. No gaffs, except for a new Stripper deck trick. I also bought "Paper-clipped". Which I haven't tried to perform yet, but I think is very clever (and very basic).

NoZed Avenger · 15th July 2003, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark tidwell
Since this got bumped back up, I'm curious as to what some of you think of Jay Sankey, who has a line of tricks on Penguin. I bought one of his DVD collections which I thought was brilliant. No gaffs, except for a new Stripper deck trick. I also bought "Paper-clipped". Which I haven't tried to perform yet, but I think is very clever (and very basic).

I do a version of that one -- very nice! [Edited to add: replaced my card-to-wallet (that I had been doing for a few years) immediately with it as soon as I had practiced it enough -- liked it that much]

Sankey is very good and I like a lot of his stuff. His humor is usually good and off-beat -- different than what I do, so I am not as tempted to copy it that way -- but his work is top notch.

His Mexican Jumping Coins is very impressive -- I will never be able to do it (not a huge coin guy to begin with), but I love watching it.

NA

NoZed Avenger · 15th July 2003, 05:22 PM

Um. Ignore this one.

Cain · 15th July 2003, 09:29 PM

I enjoy Jay Sankey's humor and magic.

The card to balloon trick is pretty neat. I think there's a video of it up on Penguin, and the performer kind of messes up, giving part of the trick away.

Since we're talking about Penguin, do you think it's okay for them to sell card forces and classic tricks?

For example:

http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=621

This appears in Scarne's book, which contains over a hundred tricks and is priced at around ten dollars).

Voob · 16th July 2003, 06:38 AM

I thought that version looked familiar...I'm sure it's by accident.

Actually, after I saw Oz's clip, I did the trick a couple of times and decided I like the original simpler version better. There's just too much extra stuff for me.

Selling classic tricks in the books they were originally published in is great.
Are there actually any intentionally ripped-off classic effects being sold as original? I'd be surprised.

How I envy you guys in the world of tons of quickly-delivered, English-language magic goods!

24th June 2003, 04:58 PM	#1
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Magic protocols I'm very tickled about this new forum and I applaud the decision to keep it a secret free zone. If you wanna know how to do a trick, buy it or figure it out for yourself. My favorite site to purchase magic from is penguin magic. Their prices are fantastic, the customer service is high, and they have a huge assortment of tricks to choose from. They also have private forums that allow you to discuss secrets with others who have purchased the same trick and more general discussion forums where conjurors know how to discuss something without giving the details away. I recommend a visit for anyone interested in discussing magic with professionals.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

25th June 2003, 08:19 AM	#2
CompletelyUnoriginal New Blood Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 23	And how much of a kick-back are you getting from them?
	__________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams

25th June 2003, 02:17 PM	#3
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Quote: Originally posted by CompletelyUnoriginal And how much of a kick-back are you getting from them? Not a pfennig. I just like the site and the service I've received.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

25th June 2003, 03:52 PM	#4
SteveW Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 265	Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects. I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too. Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect. As to the mentalist stuff, there are better, higher quality small firms out there. Sure it costs a bundle (my spirit table was over $1000) but it's worth it in the long run.
SteveW Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 265

25th June 2003, 04:48 PM	#5
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Originally posted by SteveW Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects. I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too. Well, I don't have much to compare to, but the items I've purchased there seem to be well made and of high quality. Their prices are excellent compared to other sites I've purused also. Yes, they sell a lot of "tricks" and gaffed decks, but they also offer a lot of instructional books and videos (Bobo's coin book as an example). Additionally they are available for questions and discussion about their products and have demonstration videos for most of the products. They offer free shipping and they've frequently gone out of their way to help me with an order. The service is simply incredible. Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect. I agree completely. I'm still working on my Elmsly count for pete's sake. And I'll be very proud of myself when I can do it properly, but until then, the Invisible deck and the Stripper deck are still pretty cool. (And my 4 year old nephew thinks Lite Flite is massively cool, but I'd never do it in front of a pro) As to the mentalist stuff, there are better, higher quality small firms out there. Sure it costs a bundle (my spirit table was over $1000) but it's worth it in the long run. I've purchased a few items from Ian Rowlands site and am considering a few others. Any recommendations you'd care to make?
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

25th June 2003, 04:59 PM	#6
rustypouch Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary... Posts: 2,584	While I don't have as much respect for packet tricks as for others, they can be effective if presented well. Just look at David Blaine. In his specials he uses the invisible deck, the rising deck, and the raven. These are just what I can think of off the top of my head, I'm sure he uses more than this. This just shows that simple tricks can work well if presented properly. I have these effects and I love them. I almost always have my raven with me, as it is simple and has a powerful effect on people.

26th June 2003, 05:06 PM	#7
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,824	I've been perusing that site, watching the videos, and I even purchased a couple cheap tricks. But does that "D'lite" trick really work up close? Maybe only in the corner of a darkened bar with a half-drunk spectator...
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

26th June 2003, 05:40 PM	#8
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Quote: Originally posted by Cain I've been perusing that site, watching the videos, and I even purchased a couple cheap tricks. But does that "D'lite" trick really work up close? Maybe only in the corner of a darkened bar with a half-drunk spectator... Not too up close. But darkness isn't necessary. As all tricks of this nature, you have to watch your angles. Kids seem to like it a lot. Adults won't be as impressed. But if you're going to buy it, I recommend buying two. A lot more options that way.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

27th June 2003, 10:28 AM	#9
GroundStrength Scourge of the Attentionwhore Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Houston Baby! Posts: 649	Wow this is actually turning out to be ok. D'lite is pretty good you just need to keep things moving and put together a routine. Don't just do the effect. Two is definately better. Mark: If you want some good mentalist stuff you need to get "Thirteen Steps" by Corrinda and maybe "Mind, Myth and Magic". That's one I keep going back to and finding great info in.

15th July 2003, 08:29 AM	#10
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316	Quote: Pretty weak site. It's more like the back of an old comic book rather than selling high quality effects. I don't think you checked out the site very much. There are plenty of effects, with and without gimmicks, that require sleights to perform. Quote: I love the phrases "Do this effect without years of practice" and I bet it looks like it too. Let's face it, some great effects are in fact technically easy to learn. "Do As I Do", "Out fo This World" two of the great card tricks, can be learned in no time, and are at least as impressive as, say, an anti-faro shuffle, to a non-magician. Quote: Sorry, but I spent years on sleight of hand (thanks Dai and Larry) and don't think a purchased "card trick" quite carries the same weight or effect. For whom? Other magicians! "Deep Astonishment", anyone? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of cheap, low-quality effects that rely too heavily on gimmicks, but for those of us who couldn't learn from Dai Vernon personally, I'm grateful there's a place to buy books to learn from the masters, and to see where modern-day inventors are taking the craft. Voob (edited to change Oil & Water to OOTW)
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316

15th July 2003, 09:25 AM	#11
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,411	On the web, I have not dealt with penguin -- I have used Denny & Lee on several occasions, and had very good experiences. The pricing is good and everything went smoothly. The staff was willing to answer questions about several effects and helped me pick the one that was the best fit for what I wanted. NA No kick-backs for this, unfortunately. Edited to add: I have also bought one or two items from Hank Lee without any problems. Might as well give a plug there, too.

15th July 2003, 04:38 PM	#12
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Since this got bumped back up, I'm curious as to what some of you think of Jay Sankey, who has a line of tricks on Penguin. I bought one of his DVD collections which I thought was brilliant. No gaffs, except for a new Stripper deck trick. I also bought "Paper-clipped". Which I haven't tried to perform yet, but I think is very clever (and very basic).
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

15th July 2003, 05:20 PM	#13
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,411	Quote: Originally posted by mark tidwell Since this got bumped back up, I'm curious as to what some of you think of Jay Sankey, who has a line of tricks on Penguin. I bought one of his DVD collections which I thought was brilliant. No gaffs, except for a new Stripper deck trick. I also bought "Paper-clipped". Which I haven't tried to perform yet, but I think is very clever (and very basic). I do a version of that one -- very nice! [Edited to add: replaced my card-to-wallet (that I had been doing for a few years) immediately with it as soon as I had practiced it enough -- liked it that much] Sankey is very good and I like a lot of his stuff. His humor is usually good and off-beat -- different than what I do, so I am not as tempted to copy it that way -- but his work is top notch. His Mexican Jumping Coins is very impressive -- I will never be able to do it (not a huge coin guy to begin with), but I love watching it. NA

15th July 2003, 05:22 PM	#14
NoZed Avenger Bitter Whiner Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 8,411	Um. Ignore this one.

15th July 2003, 09:29 PM	#15
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,824	I enjoy Jay Sankey's humor and magic. The card to balloon trick is pretty neat. I think there's a video of it up on Penguin, and the performer kind of messes up, giving part of the trick away. Since we're talking about Penguin, do you think it's okay for them to sell card forces and classic tricks? For example: http://www.penguinmagic.com/product.php?ID=621 This appears in Scarne's book, which contains over a hundred tricks and is priced at around ten dollars).
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

16th July 2003, 06:38 AM	#16
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316	I thought that version looked familiar...I'm sure it's by accident. Actually, after I saw Oz's clip, I did the trick a couple of times and decided I like the original simpler version better. There's just too much extra stuff for me. Selling classic tricks in the books they were originally published in is great. Are there actually any intentionally ripped-off classic effects being sold as original? I'd be surprised. How I envy you guys in the world of tons of quickly-delivered, English-language magic goods!
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316