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7th February 2003, 09:28 AM

I'm looking for articles specifically on this website that cover Kirlian photography and why it is or isn't a valid way of measuring the "life force" or "chi" of an object. The only article I've found of use is on skeptics.org and that's how I found out about randi.org

However my general web search for materials has mostly turned up why it *isn't* hooey. Any help is mostly appreciated. Thanks!

arcticpenguin · 7th February 2003, 09:33 AM

This forum has a "search" button, and so does the JREF home page. Try those out.

7th February 2003, 09:36 AM

I like the way you worded that post...

It's a shame that you've only found things that support such a long ago bashed thing (whoa, is my diction gone, or what?).

Thought I'd throw in a few links.

http://www.skepdic.com/kirlian.html
http://burtcom.com/mtrsn/sfaq_007.htm (scroll down to 7.5)

7th February 2003, 09:41 AM

Yes, I've used the search engine and it only shows articlces containing the word "Kirlian" but the article here on the Randi.Org site doesn't cover it exclusively.

Now the article on the Skeptics.Org site -- I already had that, thanks.

The SCI.SKEPTIC faq is a good one. I'll bookmark that, but I feel that I need a source here on this site.

See the ancient scriptures say "A testimony is established by two or three witnesses" and "a three-string chord is not easily broken". I basically need sources on reputable websites to create a very solid arguement. Heck, if there are "educational" sitse out there explaining Kirlian photography is good for medical reasons, blah blah blah, and the number of sources out there denouncing this as pseudoscience is few and far in between (and on top of that the sources don't look like major reputable sites from an aesthetics point of view) then my article will lack the foundational support I need to challenge this hooey.

Maybe I'm just a numbskull with the search engine. Is there someone intimately familiar with this website here who came across a Randi.Org article on the subject matter?

7th February 2003, 09:51 AM

I'll give you a bit more to go on. There is an individual who has been for many years been marketing his handforged swords as "living" and claims that he has done kirlian photography to his work to show the lifeforce emanating from his work.

I'm on a quest to provide the public with a unbiased scientific discourse on kirlian photograph so that the reader can decide for themselves whether or not there's really life force being picked up on a Kirlian photo plate.

The FAQ was helpful as the contributor said that this "aura" can be created even with lifeless metal."

Aoidoi · 7th February 2003, 10:49 AM

Here's a the link the new encyclopedia that has a little info: http://jref.sawco.com/FMPro?-db=ency...arch&-script=c

Sorry, I dunno if there's more somewhere else or not.

7th February 2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Adrian Ko
Maybe I'm just a numbskull with the search engine. Is there someone intimately familiar with this website here who came across a Randi.Org article on the subject matter?

I think they were pushing you above towards the 'Search' button the forum. There is also one to search through Randi's newsletters.

With general web searches, I've learned that just adding the word 'skeptic' really cuts out a lot of the trash.

Ladewig · 7th February 2003, 11:34 AM

There is a simple mistake that is frequently made by Kirlian photographers. They photograph the aura of a leaf, tear off part of the leaf, then photograph the remaing part. This second photograph shows the aura of the entire leaf, which they interpret as the leaf's remembering the missing piece. The problem is that if you don't wipe down the glass plate, then the second exposure will show the aura of the entire leaf even if no leaf is present at all.

RichardR · 7th February 2003, 03:44 PM

As you know, Kirlian photography only shows corona discharge, not a human “aura” or “chi”. They do not appear unless the subject has a high voltage charge applied to it. This produces a corona discharge (an area of gas ionization surrounding the subject), which can be recorded on film. If the photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no corona discharge / Kirlian image appears.

If you follow the links from the SkepDic site you will find some other stuff.

And here are some of the high voltage power supplies you will need to take Kirlian photos.

Hope that helps.

xouper · 11th February 2004, 11:04 AM

bump

7th February 2003, 09:28 AM	#1
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a	Kirlian Photography I'm looking for articles specifically on this website that cover Kirlian photography and why it is or isn't a valid way of measuring the "life force" or "chi" of an object. The only article I've found of use is on skeptics.org and that's how I found out about randi.org However my general web search for materials has mostly turned up why it isn't hooey. Any help is mostly appreciated. Thanks!
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a

7th February 2003, 09:33 AM	#2
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	This forum has a "search" button, and so does the JREF home page. Try those out.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

7th February 2003, 09:36 AM	#3
tcwolf Guest Posts: n/a	I like the way you worded that post... It's a shame that you've only found things that support such a long ago bashed thing (whoa, is my diction gone, or what?). Thought I'd throw in a few links. http://www.skepdic.com/kirlian.html http://burtcom.com/mtrsn/sfaq_007.htm (scroll down to 7.5)
tcwolf Guest Posts: n/a

7th February 2003, 09:41 AM	#4
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, I've used the search engine and it only shows articlces containing the word "Kirlian" but the article here on the Randi.Org site doesn't cover it exclusively. Now the article on the Skeptics.Org site -- I already had that, thanks. The SCI.SKEPTIC faq is a good one. I'll bookmark that, but I feel that I need a source here on this site. See the ancient scriptures say "A testimony is established by two or three witnesses" and "a three-string chord is not easily broken". I basically need sources on reputable websites to create a very solid arguement. Heck, if there are "educational" sitse out there explaining Kirlian photography is good for medical reasons, blah blah blah, and the number of sources out there denouncing this as pseudoscience is few and far in between (and on top of that the sources don't look like major reputable sites from an aesthetics point of view) then my article will lack the foundational support I need to challenge this hooey. Maybe I'm just a numbskull with the search engine. Is there someone intimately familiar with this website here who came across a Randi.Org article on the subject matter?
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a

7th February 2003, 09:51 AM	#5
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a	I'll give you a bit more to go on. There is an individual who has been for many years been marketing his handforged swords as "living" and claims that he has done kirlian photography to his work to show the lifeforce emanating from his work. I'm on a quest to provide the public with a unbiased scientific discourse on kirlian photograph so that the reader can decide for themselves whether or not there's really life force being picked up on a Kirlian photo plate. The FAQ was helpful as the contributor said that this "aura" can be created even with lifeless metal."
Adrian Ko Guest Posts: n/a

7th February 2003, 10:49 AM	#6
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,422	Here's a the link the new encyclopedia that has a little info: http://jref.sawco.com/FMPro?-db=ency...arch&-script=c Sorry, I dunno if there's more somewhere else or not.
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,422	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

7th February 2003, 11:16 AM	#7
tcwolf Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Adrian Ko Maybe I'm just a numbskull with the search engine. Is there someone intimately familiar with this website here who came across a Randi.Org article on the subject matter? I think they were pushing you above towards the 'Search' button the forum. There is also one to search through Randi's newsletters. With general web searches, I've learned that just adding the word 'skeptic' really cuts out a lot of the trash.
tcwolf Guest Posts: n/a

7th February 2003, 11:34 AM	#8
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,939	There is a simple mistake that is frequently made by Kirlian photographers. They photograph the aura of a leaf, tear off part of the leaf, then photograph the remaing part. This second photograph shows the aura of the entire leaf, which they interpret as the leaf's remembering the missing piece. The problem is that if you don't wipe down the glass plate, then the second exposure will show the aura of the entire leaf even if no leaf is present at all.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

7th February 2003, 03:44 PM	#9
RichardR Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,281	As you know, Kirlian photography only shows corona discharge, not a human “aura” or “chi”. They do not appear unless the subject has a high voltage charge applied to it. This produces a corona discharge (an area of gas ionization surrounding the subject), which can be recorded on film. If the photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no corona discharge / Kirlian image appears. If you follow the links from the SkepDic site you will find some other stuff. And here are some of the high voltage power supplies you will need to take Kirlian photos. Hope that helps.
RichardR Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,281

11th February 2004, 11:04 AM	#10
xouper Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,189	bump
xouper Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,189