ABC Radio National, Australia. (Kiless kicks ass!)

Mercutio · 1st December 2006, 06:36 PM

Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking.

Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good...

Yay, Kiless!

Patricio Elicer · 1st December 2006, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking.

Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good...

Yay, Kiless!

Way to go, Kiless!. BTW, what a sweet voice and accent, it certainly adds a new dimension to a screen name.

Yes, Kiless kicks ass!....

Zep · 1st December 2006, 11:42 PM

Yep, she rocks!

Kudos, Kiless! You may also be interested to know that quite a number of us have complained to the ABC already about Psychic Investigators. Who knows - you may have triggered a landslide...

scarlet_35 · 2nd December 2006, 06:11 AM

WAY TO GO KILESS !!!!!!!

it sounded GREAT!

she not only rocks but kicks ass to

athon · 2nd December 2006, 03:48 PM

While others sit about bitching about the world, some people actually go out and make a difference.

She does us all proud, our girl.

Athon

bpesta22 · 2nd December 2006, 03:50 PM

That was awesome and strangely erotic!
Great job Kiless.

Just for reference, though, it's pronounced "sked jew al" not "shed u el"

Gord_in_Toronto · 2nd December 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by bpesta22

That was awesome and strangely erotic!
Great job Kiless.

Just for reference, though, it's pronounced "sked jew al" not "shed u el"

Funny, I don't see a ZED in that word anywhere.

Richard · 2nd December 2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Patricio Elicer

Way to go, Kiless!. BTW, what a sweet voice and accent, it certainly adds a new dimension to a screen name.

Yes, Kiless kicks ass!....

Don't forget you can hear more of Kiless on the TANK.

November 26, 2006:
Australian Skeptics Convention
Lynne Kelly, Mark Mayer, Loretta Marron, Kylie Sturgess and young inventors.

http://www.mysteryinvestigators.com/podcast.htm

clarsct · 3rd December 2006, 01:58 AM

Go Kiless!

I knew she won second place at the Aussie Skeptic's awards, but I didn;t know she was becoming such a celeberty.

I hope she'll remember the rest of us...

rjh01 · 3rd December 2006, 02:30 AM

Maybe a replacement for James Randi??

Darat · 3rd December 2006, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mercutio

Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking.

Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good...

Yay, Kiless!

I don't see an entry added to the Links section....

Orphia Nay · 7th December 2006, 02:25 PM

Very well done, Kiless!

I knew you'd been working on that wonderful project, but hadn't realised how many waves you'd made!

I believe that you truly deserve such praise and recognition, and you have my sincere respect and admiration.

Kiless · 5th February 2007, 03:21 AM

WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers
Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12.

http://www.skeptics.com.au/wask/wask.htm

Write critically on any curious belief
Give the evidence for and against
Include your own test or survey
All entries achieving merit receive an Award
Entries close 31 May 2007. Entry is free

scarlet_35 · 5th February 2007, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kiless

WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers
Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12.

http://www.skeptics.com.au/wask/wask.htm

Write critically on any curious belief
Give the evidence for and against
Include your own test or survey
All entries achieving merit receive an Award
Entries close 31 May 2007. Entry is free

ancing _cool:

athon · 6th February 2007, 02:40 AM

Now we just need to make it national so my kids can enter and whip Kiless' kids arses!

Athon

Brown · 6th February 2007, 11:59 AM

Kiless not only rocks, she's a major babe!

blutoski · 7th February 2007, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Kiless

WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers
Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12.

Kiless: in the interview, you mentioned that you had blogged about the relative effectiveness of online fora... however, I couldn't locate the weblog you cited. Is there a copy of this available?

Brown · 8th February 2007, 09:26 PM

Let me just take this opportunity to say that the remarks I made above could be deemed as belittling or trivializing of Kiless and her work. Although that was not my intent, I should not have used the words I did, and I regret using them.

Kiless does rock, in that she is working to make a positive impact on the world in general and her students in particular. I have been extremely fortunate in my own education to have had many teachers who emphasized critical thinking and rational analysis. Those are not only the teachers that I remember with the most fondness, they are the teachers that really made a profound difference in my life.

My hat is off to those teachers, including Kiless, who help students think for themselves.

scarlet_35 · 10th February 2007, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Brown

Let me just take this opportunity to say that the remarks I made above could be deemed as belittling or trivializing of Kiless and her work.

Kiless is an awesome teacher and she's doing wonderful work, BUT she is also HOT

nothing wrong in pointing the obvious out

it's a good thing she teaches at an all girl school, the boys would be too busy drooling over her to pay enough attention to what she's actually doing.

She's an excellent role model for young woman, not only is she smart but she's great looking as well. Just goes to show once again, that you can be hot and have brains

athon · 11th February 2007, 02:31 AM

I think Kiless would be the first to point out here that the sexual appeal of somebody is irrelevant in the face of their efforts and passion towards promoting skepticism. If she wasn't attractive, but was an award winning triathlete, I don't think we'd have people saying 'she's smart, and has great cardio-vascular' (well we might, but not to the same extent we do the 'beauty and brains' appeal).

I think this is why Kiless feels uncomfortable when confronted with the 'sexy and smart' label.

Athon

(ETA: I probably shouldn't be speaking on her behalf, though. Personally, for me, I have no problems with people giving compliments, but I'm cautious of the 'smart is sexy' ideal is slipping to 'skepticism is smart, and sexy is a bonus'. Or perhaps I'm just overthinking this)

Soapy Sam · 14th February 2007, 09:34 PM

I'm less sure about the irrelevance.

People like Randi ( and sad, but true) myself, tend to be seen as "grumpy old men" and anything we say is seen as caused by sexual disfunction, baldness and piles.
While being young and pretty can also be used as a criticism (what does a kid like her know?) it can also be an attention getter, especially for the young.
The fact that the lady is demonstrably attractive as well as smart and hard working may count against her with some, but particularly with younger people is apt to be a plus.

I'm not young, but while I found Kiless' presentation at TAM impressive, I was also far from unaware of the fact that, like it or not, she is an attractive young woman. It fixes her in the mind. That helps fix the message.

Actually I was impressed by the high percentage of female speakers at TAM- if I found a couple of the older ones pretty damned attractive as well, I guess it just says something about my age.

This lady is going places and she would do so even if she were ugly. But she's not, for which at least one old sexist is grateful.

Brown · 15th February 2007, 05:24 PM

I will say one more thing about this, and then I'm done.

As a matter of good manners, gentlemen must be mindful of using terminology that can be deemed as trivializing or demeaning of women, even if it was not intended as such.

Gentlemen should avoid in public referring to a woman colloquially as "honey," "baby," "missy," "little lady," "sugar" and the like. Even if such remarks are meant as a compliment, they're just not appropriate in a serious adult discussion. They can be deemed to imply that the other person ought not to be taken seriously, or that the other person is perhaps displaying a characteristic (such as high intelligence, humor or rationality) that is "unusual" for her gender. In other words, the remarks can be a veiled insult (and not all that long ago, they were often intended as such).

Similarly, a gentleman should avoid commenting on a woman's appearance when that issue is not relevant. Such comments can be interpreted as trivializing. To the extent my remarks did this, they were inappropriate.

Now, having said all that, I realize that I am in something of a pickle. Kiless, were she one to take offense, might well look upon this post and say, "What?? He really doesn't think I'm physically attractive?? Why, the nerve!!" The answer is that my whether I think so or not, I should not have used words that purported to introduce that subject into the discussion. I simply have to rely upon Kiless's good graces while I humbly take back what I said.

And there may be those who will be under the delusion that they are quite witty and will say, "He doesn't think Kiless is attractive? He must be gay!" The answer to this is simple: Say this to my face and I'll set you "straight."

Soapy Sam · 15th February 2007, 06:52 PM

Ah, Brown, we men are a doomed breed. What with shrinking Y chromosomes, shrinking value in society, shrinking- well, lets not go there- If we openly admire a lady we're being condescending, if we don't we're ungracious, (or probably gay).
Damned if we do, doomed if we don't , let us go to the garden shed, my friend, where we will play dominoes, smoke, spit , tell outrageous lies and be appreciated only by the dog.

Mercutio · 15th February 2007, 06:55 PM

'sokay, Soaps. You can make up for it by posting your essay about what it is you liked about her topic, what sorts of things you suggest for empirically testing the efficacy of our efforts, that sort of thing.

1st December 2006, 06:36 PM	#1
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	ABC Radio National, Australia. (Kiless kicks ass!) Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking. Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good... Yay, Kiless!
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

1st December 2006, 08:54 PM	#2
Patricio Elicer Obsessed with Reality Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 4,350	Originally Posted by Mercutio Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking. Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good... Yay, Kiless! Way to go, Kiless!. BTW, what a sweet voice and accent, it certainly adds a new dimension to a screen name. Yes, Kiless kicks ass!....
	__________________ "Well, I've never discussed it before on the forum, but, Patricio, you're the real reason I didn't show up at TAM I. Once I found out you were going, I cancelled all my plans, knowing that you would likely hunt me down and ask me questions about English language usage. I finally decided that I wouldn't be able to handle the pressure of your questions ..." - Mr. Skinny on 5th April 2007.

1st December 2006, 11:42 PM	#3
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Yep, she rocks! Kudos, Kiless! You may also be interested to know that quite a number of us have complained to the ABC already about Psychic Investigators. Who knows - you may have triggered a landslide...
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

2nd December 2006, 06:11 AM	#4
scarlet_35 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,464	WAY TO GO KILESS !!!!!!! it sounded GREAT! she not only rocks but kicks ass to
	__________________ I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I never believed in Hell until I met you.

2nd December 2006, 03:50 PM	#6
bpesta22 Cereal Killer Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 4,648	That was awesome and strangely erotic! Great job Kiless. Just for reference, though, it's pronounced "sked jew al" not "shed u el"
bpesta22 Cereal Killer Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 4,648	__________________ Manifest thy bosoms or decamp.

2nd December 2006, 03:48 PM	#5
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	While others sit about bitching about the world, some people actually go out and make a difference. She does us all proud, our girl. Athon

2nd December 2006, 04:06 PM	#7
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,418	Originally Posted by bpesta22 That was awesome and strangely erotic! Great job Kiless. Just for reference, though, it's pronounced "sked jew al" not "shed u el" Funny, I don't see a ZED in that word anywhere.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

2nd December 2006, 04:31 PM	#8
Richard Muse Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 969	Originally Posted by Patricio Elicer Way to go, Kiless!. BTW, what a sweet voice and accent, it certainly adds a new dimension to a screen name. Yes, Kiless kicks ass!.... Don't forget you can hear more of Kiless on the TANK. November 26, 2006: Australian Skeptics Convention Lynne Kelly, Mark Mayer, Loretta Marron, Kylie Sturgess and young inventors. http://www.mysteryinvestigators.com/podcast.htm
	__________________ Richard Saunders Producer of 'The Skeptic Zone Podcast' http://www.skepticzone.tv and Mystery Investigators http://www.mysteryinvestigators.com

3rd December 2006, 01:58 AM	#9
clarsct Humor Impaired Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Cultural Desert Posts: 4,910	Go Kiless! I knew she won second place at the Aussie Skeptic's awards, but I didn;t know she was becoming such a celeberty. I hope she'll remember the rest of us...
	__________________ When Religion becomes State, and breaking the Law becomes Sin, then Dissenters will become Heretics. Oh nonsense. Still not hugging you. -Kiless Forum Tosser and Skirt Chaser

3rd December 2006, 02:30 AM	#10
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 17,198	Maybe a replacement for James Randi??

3rd December 2006, 04:20 AM	#11
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by Mercutio Here is the link. Go to 20:15 in the broadcast, for an audio essay by Kiless, about her class's (prize-winning) project on critical thinking. Score one for the side of truth, science, and all that is good... Yay, Kiless! I don't see an entry added to the Links section....
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

7th December 2006, 02:25 PM	#12
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,425	Very well done, Kiless! I knew you'd been working on that wonderful project, but hadn't realised how many waves you'd made! I believe that you truly deserve such praise and recognition, and you have my sincere respect and admiration.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

5th February 2007, 03:21 AM	#13
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103	WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12. http://www.skeptics.com.au/wask/wask.htm Write critically on any curious belief Give the evidence for and against Include your own test or survey All entries achieving merit receive an Award Entries close 31 May 2007. Entry is free
Kiless Guest Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,103

5th February 2007, 05:57 AM	#14
scarlet_35 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,464	Originally Posted by Kiless WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12. http://www.skeptics.com.au/wask/wask.htm Write critically on any curious belief Give the evidence for and against Include your own test or survey All entries achieving merit receive an Award Entries close 31 May 2007. Entry is free ancing _cool:
	__________________ I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I never believed in Hell until I met you.

6th February 2007, 02:40 AM	#15
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	Now we just need to make it national so my kids can enter and whip Kiless' kids arses! Athon

6th February 2007, 11:59 AM	#16
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,184	Kiless not only rocks, she's a major babe!
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

7th February 2007, 06:23 PM	#17
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,993	Originally Posted by Kiless WA Skeptics Awards for Young Critical Writers Open to Western Australian secondary students in years 8-12. Kiless: in the interview, you mentioned that you had blogged about the relative effectiveness of online fora... however, I couldn't locate the weblog you cited. Is there a copy of this available?
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

8th February 2007, 09:26 PM	#18
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,184	Let me just take this opportunity to say that the remarks I made above could be deemed as belittling or trivializing of Kiless and her work. Although that was not my intent, I should not have used the words I did, and I regret using them. Kiless does rock, in that she is working to make a positive impact on the world in general and her students in particular. I have been extremely fortunate in my own education to have had many teachers who emphasized critical thinking and rational analysis. Those are not only the teachers that I remember with the most fondness, they are the teachers that really made a profound difference in my life. My hat is off to those teachers, including Kiless, who help students think for themselves.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

10th February 2007, 07:14 AM	#19
scarlet_35 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,464	Originally Posted by Brown Let me just take this opportunity to say that the remarks I made above could be deemed as belittling or trivializing of Kiless and her work. Kiless is an awesome teacher and she's doing wonderful work, BUT she is also HOT nothing wrong in pointing the obvious out it's a good thing she teaches at an all girl school, the boys would be too busy drooling over her to pay enough attention to what she's actually doing. She's an excellent role model for young woman, not only is she smart but she's great looking as well. Just goes to show once again, that you can be hot and have brains
	__________________ I must admit, you brought Religion into my life. I never believed in Hell until I met you.

11th February 2007, 02:31 AM	#20
athon Kowalski Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: gone Posts: 9,286	I think Kiless would be the first to point out here that the sexual appeal of somebody is irrelevant in the face of their efforts and passion towards promoting skepticism. If she wasn't attractive, but was an award winning triathlete, I don't think we'd have people saying 'she's smart, and has great cardio-vascular' (well we might, but not to the same extent we do the 'beauty and brains' appeal). I think this is why Kiless feels uncomfortable when confronted with the 'sexy and smart' label. Athon (ETA: I probably shouldn't be speaking on her behalf, though. Personally, for me, I have no problems with people giving compliments, but I'm cautious of the 'smart is sexy' ideal is slipping to 'skepticism is smart, and sexy is a bonus'. Or perhaps I'm just overthinking this)
	Last edited by athon; 11th February 2007 at 02:36 AM.

14th February 2007, 09:34 PM	#21
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	I'm less sure about the irrelevance. People like Randi ( and sad, but true) myself, tend to be seen as "grumpy old men" and anything we say is seen as caused by sexual disfunction, baldness and piles. While being young and pretty can also be used as a criticism (what does a kid like her know?) it can also be an attention getter, especially for the young. The fact that the lady is demonstrably attractive as well as smart and hard working may count against her with some, but particularly with younger people is apt to be a plus. I'm not young, but while I found Kiless' presentation at TAM impressive, I was also far from unaware of the fact that, like it or not, she is an attractive young woman. It fixes her in the mind. That helps fix the message. Actually I was impressed by the high percentage of female speakers at TAM- if I found a couple of the older ones pretty damned attractive as well, I guess it just says something about my age. This lady is going places and she would do so even if she were ugly. But she's not, for which at least one old sexist is grateful.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

15th February 2007, 05:24 PM	#22
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,184	I will say one more thing about this, and then I'm done. As a matter of good manners, gentlemen must be mindful of using terminology that can be deemed as trivializing or demeaning of women, even if it was not intended as such. Gentlemen should avoid in public referring to a woman colloquially as "honey," "baby," "missy," "little lady," "sugar" and the like. Even if such remarks are meant as a compliment, they're just not appropriate in a serious adult discussion. They can be deemed to imply that the other person ought not to be taken seriously, or that the other person is perhaps displaying a characteristic (such as high intelligence, humor or rationality) that is "unusual" for her gender. In other words, the remarks can be a veiled insult (and not all that long ago, they were often intended as such). Similarly, a gentleman should avoid commenting on a woman's appearance when that issue is not relevant. Such comments can be interpreted as trivializing. To the extent my remarks did this, they were inappropriate. Now, having said all that, I realize that I am in something of a pickle. Kiless, were she one to take offense, might well look upon this post and say, "What?? He really doesn't think I'm physically attractive?? Why, the nerve!!" The answer is that my whether I think so or not, I should not have used words that purported to introduce that subject into the discussion. I simply have to rely upon Kiless's good graces while I humbly take back what I said. And there may be those who will be under the delusion that they are quite witty and will say, "He doesn't think Kiless is attractive? He must be gay!" The answer to this is simple: Say this to my face and I'll set you "straight."
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

15th February 2007, 06:52 PM	#23
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Ah, Brown, we men are a doomed breed. What with shrinking Y chromosomes, shrinking value in society, shrinking- well, lets not go there- If we openly admire a lady we're being condescending, if we don't we're ungracious, (or probably gay). Damned if we do, doomed if we don't , let us go to the garden shed, my friend, where we will play dominoes, smoke, spit , tell outrageous lies and be appreciated only by the dog.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

15th February 2007, 06:55 PM	#24
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,325	'sokay, Soaps. You can make up for it by posting your essay about what it is you liked about her topic, what sorts of things you suggest for empirically testing the efficacy of our efforts, that sort of thing.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."