Dowsing in Sedona

Bentspoon · 2nd December 2006, 10:53 AM

Recently, I travelled back to my old stomping grounds in Arizona to celebrate my brother's 50th birthday. It was a surprise and his wife got us all rooms in Sedona. For the few of you that might not be aware of this place, it is in about the upper center of the state, including Oak Creek Canyon. It is a gorgeous area with magnificent views in 360 degrees. Beautiful red rock, cut in unusual shapes by time, dotted with oak and pine trees and creeks. Back in my old days it was great fishing, great hiking and slide rock - a literal red rock slide in Oak Creek. In the last two decades it has become a place of spiritual power with medcine rings and vortexes - magnetic tornados of power?. It has been a subject of a Penn and Teller Bulls#&t episode. One of the crazy ladies they interviewed there is still there and thriving. Of course all of this is a growing business. I agree that the area is very spiritual - I am awestruck by the sheer beauty - I don't see why these woos need more than that to make it wonderful.

But I digress - my brother and I have a hiking history together that includes the Grand Canyon, the Superstitions, the Mogollan Rim and Sedona to name a few areas. We got nostalgic and decided to take a number of hikes on the Saturday we were there. That number turned into one and then we went for a beer - I am afraid we are not the men we used to be.

My SO, brother, his wife and I embarked on this beautiful little trail sandwiched between the resorts and cliff dwellings - what a contrast!! Now I tend to hike a little faster than the others keeping my own pace and this was true as we were returning to the trailhead parking lot. As I got within the last 300 feet, I came upon a stone bench shaded by a Palo Verde tree and sat down to wait for my companions. Up from the trailhead come these two women and the one in the back caught my eye for she was hiking with her left arm outstretched as if pointing in the direction of travel. She was walking stiff armed like that. As they got closer I caught the gleam of a little chrome pinched between her thumb and index finger. It was a tiny chrome dowsing rod - a chromed wire bent 90 degrees with one end in a small chrome tube. No doubt easy to find in one of the many shops that cater to the woos. I knew she was looking for the infamous vortex's.

As they passed, I asked, "'Found any yet?" She turned her head towards me to answer "no" but as she did her hand moved slightly and the rod swiveled around. She got very excited and said that ther must be one right here. I stretched my arms out on the bench as if feeling the vibes and said "I think I feel it". I was very tempted to say something about a bowel movement but I managed to avoid that.

They continued up the trail and that would be the end of the story except that, from my bench, the trail went away for about 100 feet and then turned sharply left, giving me a view of my companions and the woos as they approached each other. As I watched, my SO thrust her arm out and pointed at the two woos - so there was my SO approaching the dowsing woo like two jousters. They came together and polite hello's were exchanged. When my group got down to where I was at I asked my SO what she was doing. She said. "She was pointing at me so I pointed back"

That's my story and I will end it with this observation.

I fail to understand why it isn't enough. Sedona is awe inspiring, spritually renewing and beautiful. But somehow that isn't enough - there has to be magic - vortex's and such. When I refer to spirituality, I am referring to an emotionally effecting experience. I feel awe in the Redwoods, the Superstitions, the Grand Canyon, on Mt Rainier. Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this.

Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering"

Now that's spirituality

Bentspoon

RecoveringYuppy · 2nd December 2006, 11:04 AM

Hope you got that beer at the Oak Creek Brewery. Best place to take your mind off the woos.

grayman · 2nd December 2006, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy

Hope you got that beer at the Oak Creek Brewery. Best place to take your mind off the woos.

Probably the only place to truly find "spirits".

RecoveringYuppy · 2nd December 2006, 11:35 AM

And if you're interested in a Vortex that can lift your spirits, you go to the brewpub in Atlanta of that name.

sophia8 · 2nd December 2006, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bentspoon

Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this.

Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering"

Now that's spirituality

Bentspoon

I feel the same way. On a clear night, I can go outside and see the starry skies in all their glory; I can gaze up at the Milky Way and know that I am not only looking into infinity, I'm also seeing millions of years into the past. And I know that I'm made of the same stuff that the stars I'm looking at are made of!
That's AWESOME......

Jeff Corey · 3rd December 2006, 01:10 PM

What a coincidence, because of this thread I was able to solve 10 Down in the NYTimes puzzle today.
It's soopernatural, I tell you.

Zep · 3rd December 2006, 02:30 PM

Yes, we've been to Sedona, both in 1996 and earlier this year after TAM4. BIG changes seem to have come over the place in 10 years - it used to be a bit of a sleepy little hollow, but now it's much more suburban. Really pretty place though!

You could always put the dowser off by saying that you have already dowsed the whole area (by airplane, perhaps), and your results are available on a map from Borders in Flagstaff. Just get them to ask for the "Dowsing Map 51" at the counter - the staff will be able to find it instantly.

Then your dowser will rush off to Flagstaff and bother Borders there, leaving the area free of them for at least a day. And when they realise they have been had, they will not bother to come back.

Win/win!

Chris Haynes · 3rd December 2006, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bentspoon

...
I fail to understand why it isn't enough. Sedona is awe inspiring, spritually renewing and beautiful. But somehow that isn't enough - there has to be magic - vortex's and such. When I refer to spirituality, I am referring to an emotionally effecting experience. I feel awe in the Redwoods, the Superstitions, the Grand Canyon, on Mt Rainier. Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this.

Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering"

Now that's spirituality

Bentspoon

Do you know that real money was spent to create this map of "ley lines" in Seattle: http://www.geo.org/qa.htm#tof ? I believe the "vortices" and "ley lines" are a similar kind of woo (it is kind of explained on the www.geo.org website).

How do I know about this fluff? Back in the short period when we had satellite TV service I remember watching some latenight paranormal crud that showed a couple of guys standing on a corner a few blocks from where I live explaining that they were standing EXACTLY where two important ley lines intersect. I had no idea what they were talking about.

Then I looked it up here: http://www.skepdic.com/leylines.html ... which had a link to a map showing our local the ley lines. Where I can clearly see on http://www.geo.org/map.jpg that there are NO ley lines withen several blocks of that particular intersection! (and the nearest "intersection" is in the lake!)

Obviously someone's dowsing was off... which seems to happen often when searching for imaginary stuff.

(the last three paragraphs are me quoting myself from the Ley Line Lunancy thread I started early this summer)

Oh, and I agree with you. I got a breath taking view of Mt. Rainier just as the sun was starting to set yesterday afternoon a as I walked along James from Seattle Univ. to downtown (that is a steep street!). I was gorgeous. So was the view of the sound and the Olympics.

Though I'm afraid as I walked north along 4th Ave, the blood pressure tended to go up as the throngs of people on the sidewalks increased to crowd sized.

Edit to add: I am so glad we were able to enjoy the North Rim of the Grand Canyon without any woo sillyness. That was after an awe-inspiring 4th of July fireworks display in Sierra Vista with a Ft. Huachuca Army band, choir and a real cannon! The young soldier manning the cannon was very nice about showing the kids the big blanks and how the big gun worked. Absolutely no woo there!

2nd December 2006, 10:53 AM	#1
Bentspoon Thinker Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 197	Dowsing in Sedona Recently, I travelled back to my old stomping grounds in Arizona to celebrate my brother's 50th birthday. It was a surprise and his wife got us all rooms in Sedona. For the few of you that might not be aware of this place, it is in about the upper center of the state, including Oak Creek Canyon. It is a gorgeous area with magnificent views in 360 degrees. Beautiful red rock, cut in unusual shapes by time, dotted with oak and pine trees and creeks. Back in my old days it was great fishing, great hiking and slide rock - a literal red rock slide in Oak Creek. In the last two decades it has become a place of spiritual power with medcine rings and vortexes - magnetic tornados of power?. It has been a subject of a Penn and Teller Bulls#&t episode. One of the crazy ladies they interviewed there is still there and thriving. Of course all of this is a growing business. I agree that the area is very spiritual - I am awestruck by the sheer beauty - I don't see why these woos need more than that to make it wonderful. But I digress - my brother and I have a hiking history together that includes the Grand Canyon, the Superstitions, the Mogollan Rim and Sedona to name a few areas. We got nostalgic and decided to take a number of hikes on the Saturday we were there. That number turned into one and then we went for a beer - I am afraid we are not the men we used to be. My SO, brother, his wife and I embarked on this beautiful little trail sandwiched between the resorts and cliff dwellings - what a contrast!! Now I tend to hike a little faster than the others keeping my own pace and this was true as we were returning to the trailhead parking lot. As I got within the last 300 feet, I came upon a stone bench shaded by a Palo Verde tree and sat down to wait for my companions. Up from the trailhead come these two women and the one in the back caught my eye for she was hiking with her left arm outstretched as if pointing in the direction of travel. She was walking stiff armed like that. As they got closer I caught the gleam of a little chrome pinched between her thumb and index finger. It was a tiny chrome dowsing rod - a chromed wire bent 90 degrees with one end in a small chrome tube. No doubt easy to find in one of the many shops that cater to the woos. I knew she was looking for the infamous vortex's. As they passed, I asked, "'Found any yet?" She turned her head towards me to answer "no" but as she did her hand moved slightly and the rod swiveled around. She got very excited and said that ther must be one right here. I stretched my arms out on the bench as if feeling the vibes and said "I think I feel it". I was very tempted to say something about a bowel movement but I managed to avoid that. They continued up the trail and that would be the end of the story except that, from my bench, the trail went away for about 100 feet and then turned sharply left, giving me a view of my companions and the woos as they approached each other. As I watched, my SO thrust her arm out and pointed at the two woos - so there was my SO approaching the dowsing woo like two jousters. They came together and polite hello's were exchanged. When my group got down to where I was at I asked my SO what she was doing. She said. "She was pointing at me so I pointed back" That's my story and I will end it with this observation. I fail to understand why it isn't enough. Sedona is awe inspiring, spritually renewing and beautiful. But somehow that isn't enough - there has to be magic - vortex's and such. When I refer to spirituality, I am referring to an emotionally effecting experience. I feel awe in the Redwoods, the Superstitions, the Grand Canyon, on Mt Rainier. Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this. Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering" Now that's spirituality Bentspoon
	Last edited by Bentspoon; 2nd December 2006 at 10:58 AM. Reason: mispellings

2nd December 2006, 11:26 AM	#3
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 5,884	Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy Hope you got that beer at the Oak Creek Brewery. Best place to take your mind off the woos. Probably the only place to truly find "spirits".
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge

2nd December 2006, 11:44 AM	#5
sophia8 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Scottishland Posts: 1,715	Originally Posted by Bentspoon Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this. Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering" Now that's spirituality Bentspoon I feel the same way. On a clear night, I can go outside and see the starry skies in all their glory; I can gaze up at the Milky Way and know that I am not only looking into infinity, I'm also seeing millions of years into the past. And I know that I'm made of the same stuff that the stars I'm looking at are made of! That's AWESOME......
	__________________ "The fact that time will continue after we die does not negate the time that we were alive. We are alive now, and nothing can erase that." - Greta Christina "You will find me if you want me in the garden. Unless it's pouring down with rain" - Einsturzende Neubauten

3rd December 2006, 03:01 PM	#8
Chris Haynes Perfectly Poisonous Person Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wacky Washington Way Out West Posts: 3,847	Originally Posted by Bentspoon ... I fail to understand why it isn't enough. Sedona is awe inspiring, spritually renewing and beautiful. But somehow that isn't enough - there has to be magic - vortex's and such. When I refer to spirituality, I am referring to an emotionally effecting experience. I feel awe in the Redwoods, the Superstitions, the Grand Canyon, on Mt Rainier. Nature's wonders provide profound experiences that move me and inpsire me. It seems so childish and decadent to have to embellish it with fluff like this. Here in the NW I live on the Skykomish river - it is my backyard. It is a white water river with merganzers, eagles and ospreys. Sitting on the bank patio is good for the spirit. My friend said it all - "You can actually feel your blood pressure lowering" Now that's spirituality Bentspoon Do you know that real money was spent to create this map of "ley lines" in Seattle: http://www.geo.org/qa.htm#tof ? I believe the "vortices" and "ley lines" are a similar kind of woo (it is kind of explained on the www.geo.org website). How do I know about this fluff? Back in the short period when we had satellite TV service I remember watching some latenight paranormal crud that showed a couple of guys standing on a corner a few blocks from where I live explaining that they were standing EXACTLY where two important ley lines intersect. I had no idea what they were talking about. Then I looked it up here: http://www.skepdic.com/leylines.html ... which had a link to a map showing our local the ley lines. Where I can clearly see on http://www.geo.org/map.jpg that there are NO ley lines withen several blocks of that particular intersection! (and the nearest "intersection" is in the lake!) Obviously someone's dowsing was off... which seems to happen often when searching for imaginary stuff. (the last three paragraphs are me quoting myself from the Ley Line Lunancy thread I started early this summer) Oh, and I agree with you. I got a breath taking view of Mt. Rainier just as the sun was starting to set yesterday afternoon a as I walked along James from Seattle Univ. to downtown (that is a steep street!). I was gorgeous. So was the view of the sound and the Olympics. Though I'm afraid as I walked north along 4th Ave, the blood pressure tended to go up as the throngs of people on the sidewalks increased to crowd sized. Edit to add: I am so glad we were able to enjoy the North Rim of the Grand Canyon without any woo sillyness. That was after an awe-inspiring 4th of July fireworks display in Sierra Vista with a Ft. Huachuca Army band, choir and a real cannon! The young soldier manning the cannon was very nice about showing the kids the big blanks and how the big gun worked. Absolutely no woo there!
	__________________ I used to be intelligent... but then I had kids "HCN, I hate you!" ( so sayeth Deetee at http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=1077344 )... What I get for linking to http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/ Last edited by Chris Haynes; 3rd December 2006 at 03:05 PM.

2nd December 2006, 11:04 AM	#2
RecoveringYuppy Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,606	Hope you got that beer at the Oak Creek Brewery. Best place to take your mind off the woos.

2nd December 2006, 11:35 AM	#4
RecoveringYuppy Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,606	And if you're interested in a Vortex that can lift your spirits, you go to the brewpub in Atlanta of that name.

3rd December 2006, 01:10 PM	#6
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,128	What a coincidence, because of this thread I was able to solve 10 Down in the NYTimes puzzle today. It's soopernatural, I tell you.

3rd December 2006, 02:30 PM	#7
Zep Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 25,164	Yes, we've been to Sedona, both in 1996 and earlier this year after TAM4. BIG changes seem to have come over the place in 10 years - it used to be a bit of a sleepy little hollow, but now it's much more suburban. Really pretty place though! You could always put the dowser off by saying that you have already dowsed the whole area (by airplane, perhaps), and your results are available on a map from Borders in Flagstaff. Just get them to ask for the "Dowsing Map 51" at the counter - the staff will be able to find it instantly. Then your dowser will rush off to Flagstaff and bother Borders there, leaving the area free of them for at least a day. And when they realise they have been had, they will not bother to come back. Win/win!