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ottle · 21st December 2006, 06:51 AM

I've been hearing miscellaneous reportings of this in the news and am very curious if anyone has any information about whether this could be real.

http://www.workingdogs.com/vcepilepsy.htm

It seems plausible but I really haven't found much other than anecdotal evidence. I've also heard about cancer-sniffing dogs

I want to believe that by the time I turn 40, I'll get a puppy to sniff my chest instead of having to deal with a mammogram!

I did find this article which seems to have done some homework and seems to be saying that it's rare, if at all possible.

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/sapp1.htm

Anyone know of any studies that have been done on this?

Dogdoctor · 21st December 2006, 09:17 AM

People often act differently right before a siezure. Dogs can learn to detect that behavior. It's no big deal. As far as cancer sniffing dogs go there is no cancer smell but people with certain types of cancer may have a specific smell that can be detected by a dog trained to do so. The only thing I have heard that sounds very plausible is urinary tract cancer sniffing dogs.

casebro · 21st December 2006, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by ottle

..... I want to believe that by the time I turn 40, I'll get a puppy to sniff my chest instead of having to deal with a mammogram!

I hope that by the time you turn 40, I get to watch!

ottle · 21st December 2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

I hope that by the time you turn 40, I get to watch!

Even as I typed that, I knew it was a mistake...

ottle · 21st December 2006, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dogdoctor

People often act differently right before a siezure. Dogs can learn to detect that behavior. It's no big deal. As far as cancer sniffing dogs go there is no cancer smell but people with certain types of cancer may have a specific smell that can be detected by a dog trained to do so. The only thing I have heard that sounds very plausible is urinary tract cancer sniffing dogs.

Interesting - in some of the things I've read, people say that it's an innate ability, not something trainable. Others say that all dogs can detect seizures but not all dogs 'choose' to alert on them. I guess there's just a lot of random information out there that is being reported as fact... I hate that

casebro · 21st December 2006, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by ottle

Even as I typed that, I knew it was a mistake...

Life is good if you can afford to laugh at yourself.

Dogdoctor · 21st December 2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by ottle

Interesting - in some of the things I've read, people say that it's an innate ability, not something trainable. Others say that all dogs can detect seizures but not all dogs 'choose' to alert on them. I guess there's just a lot of random information out there that is being reported as fact... I hate that

I don't think it is any special talent and that you could train humans to do the same since the cues are visual. But it's cheaper to have a dog trained to do that. Some people can detect their own seizures coming on.

Katana · 21st December 2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dogdoctor

I don't think it is any special talent and that you could train humans to do the same since the cues are visual. But it's cheaper to have a dog trained to do that. Some people can detect their own seizures coming on.

Plus, as far as cancers of the urinary tract, it's probably easier to train a dog to sniff your crotch than it would be to find a human willing to do so. Heck, that would be a dream job for a dog, no?

Or do they just sniff your pee pee?

Dogdoctor · 21st December 2006, 11:39 AM

I think the study I read was sniffing urine samples. It makes sense to me but the reliability was not great yet it was much better than chance.

kellyb · 21st December 2006, 02:51 PM

It's never been proven in a really scientific way, but I personally think it's plausible.
There are really complex chemical reactions that go on when people have seizures. As soon as a seizure starts...even very small ones...opioid peptides start flooding your brain to shut the seizure down (as an example). It wouldn't surprise me if dogs can smell some of these chemical changes.

I also think dogs might be able to smell adrenaline increases in some round about way, and neurological weirdness in the temporal lobes definitely affects that.

And for a really far fetched possibility...I've read that canines have some kind of sensors in their noses that can detect small electromagnetic changes in the environment (some sort of evolutionary thunderstorm related thing)...so maybe something like that might play a role, as well.
Maybe. But that might just be pseudoscience alltogether about the electromagnetism thing and dogs that happened to make it into a book on animal behaviorism I read.

meg · 21st December 2006, 03:29 PM

Here's a link about the dogs sniffing out bladder cancer, which says their rate of success in that experiment was 41%.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6440

Interestingly, that same page has a link to another story about experiments with giant rats being trained to sniff out TB.

Dogdoctor · 21st December 2006, 03:54 PM

6 dogs trained for 7 months. If they trained a lot of dogs and picked the best ones they may get better reliability (or not). Often service dogs are weeded out from many who are put through the training.

Thitical Crinker · 21st December 2006, 04:02 PM

My ex-wife is a diabetic. We had a golden retriever that could detect when her sugar was low. I am sure it was a certain odor that Sadie recognized, then she would whine and lick my ex's hand. We knew to check her sugar when Sadie acted this way. She woke her up on more than one occasion in the middle of the night and would not leave her alone until she got her sugar back to normal.

As I said, I am sure it was an odor that caused this reaction, but how she learned to act upon it as she did, I have no idea.

Sadly, we had to put her down three years ago due to old age. I still miss my Sadie girl.

Katana · 21st December 2006, 04:48 PM

Dogs are wonderful (and that's coming from a cat lover).

ottle · 22nd December 2006, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Thitical Crinker

My ex-wife is a diabetic. We had a golden retriever that could detect when her sugar was low. I am sure it was a certain odor that Sadie recognized, then she would whine and lick my ex's hand. We knew to check her sugar when Sadie acted this way. She woke her up on more than one occasion in the middle of the night and would not leave her alone until she got her sugar back to normal.

As I said, I am sure it was an odor that caused this reaction, but how she learned to act upon it as she did, I have no idea.

Sadly, we had to put her down three years ago due to old age. I still miss my Sadie girl.

Awwww... what-a-goo'puppy!!!

Sorry about your loss - I have three completely not useful dogs and I will be a train wreck when I lose them...

ottle · 22nd December 2006, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Katana

Dogs are wonderful (and that's coming from a cat lover).

Yeah, but you're not going to see a lot of cancer detecting cats... they may notice it but they won't do anything about it

You don't see a lot of sheep-herding cats or cats pulling people out of burning buildings either...

But I won't turn this thread into dogs vs. cats

Even I will admit there are a few cats in the world that aren't completely evil ...

21st December 2006, 06:51 AM	#1
ottle Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 528	Seizure detecting dogs? I've been hearing miscellaneous reportings of this in the news and am very curious if anyone has any information about whether this could be real. http://www.workingdogs.com/vcepilepsy.htm It seems plausible but I really haven't found much other than anecdotal evidence. I've also heard about cancer-sniffing dogs I want to believe that by the time I turn 40, I'll get a puppy to sniff my chest instead of having to deal with a mammogram! I did find this article which seems to have done some homework and seems to be saying that it's rare, if at all possible. http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/sapp1.htm Anyone know of any studies that have been done on this?

21st December 2006, 09:17 AM	#2
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 14,329	People often act differently right before a siezure. Dogs can learn to detect that behavior. It's no big deal. As far as cancer sniffing dogs go there is no cancer smell but people with certain types of cancer may have a specific smell that can be detected by a dog trained to do so. The only thing I have heard that sounds very plausible is urinary tract cancer sniffing dogs.
	__________________

21st December 2006, 09:20 AM	#3
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,887	Originally Posted by ottle ..... I want to believe that by the time I turn 40, I'll get a puppy to sniff my chest instead of having to deal with a mammogram! I hope that by the time you turn 40, I get to watch!
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,887	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

21st December 2006, 10:16 AM	#6
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,887	Originally Posted by ottle Even as I typed that, I knew it was a mistake... Life is good if you can afford to laugh at yourself.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,887	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

21st December 2006, 10:24 AM	#7
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 14,329	Originally Posted by ottle Interesting - in some of the things I've read, people say that it's an innate ability, not something trainable. Others say that all dogs can detect seizures but not all dogs 'choose' to alert on them. I guess there's just a lot of random information out there that is being reported as fact... I hate that I don't think it is any special talent and that you could train humans to do the same since the cues are visual. But it's cheaper to have a dog trained to do that. Some people can detect their own seizures coming on.
	__________________

21st December 2006, 10:10 AM	#4
ottle Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 528	Originally Posted by casebro I hope that by the time you turn 40, I get to watch! Even as I typed that, I knew it was a mistake...

21st December 2006, 10:13 AM	#5
ottle Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 528	Originally Posted by Dogdoctor People often act differently right before a siezure. Dogs can learn to detect that behavior. It's no big deal. As far as cancer sniffing dogs go there is no cancer smell but people with certain types of cancer may have a specific smell that can be detected by a dog trained to do so. The only thing I have heard that sounds very plausible is urinary tract cancer sniffing dogs. Interesting - in some of the things I've read, people say that it's an innate ability, not something trainable. Others say that all dogs can detect seizures but not all dogs 'choose' to alert on them. I guess there's just a lot of random information out there that is being reported as fact... I hate that

21st December 2006, 10:53 AM	#8
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Originally Posted by Dogdoctor I don't think it is any special talent and that you could train humans to do the same since the cues are visual. But it's cheaper to have a dog trained to do that. Some people can detect their own seizures coming on. Plus, as far as cancers of the urinary tract, it's probably easier to train a dog to sniff your crotch than it would be to find a human willing to do so. Heck, that would be a dream job for a dog, no? Or do they just sniff your pee pee?
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

21st December 2006, 11:39 AM	#9
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 14,329	I think the study I read was sniffing urine samples. It makes sense to me but the reliability was not great yet it was much better than chance.
	__________________

21st December 2006, 02:51 PM	#10
kellyb Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tennessee. Ain't you jealous? Posts: 4,475	It's never been proven in a really scientific way, but I personally think it's plausible. There are really complex chemical reactions that go on when people have seizures. As soon as a seizure starts...even very small ones...opioid peptides start flooding your brain to shut the seizure down (as an example). It wouldn't surprise me if dogs can smell some of these chemical changes. I also think dogs might be able to smell adrenaline increases in some round about way, and neurological weirdness in the temporal lobes definitely affects that. And for a really far fetched possibility...I've read that canines have some kind of sensors in their noses that can detect small electromagnetic changes in the environment (some sort of evolutionary thunderstorm related thing)...so maybe something like that might play a role, as well. Maybe. But that might just be pseudoscience alltogether about the electromagnetism thing and dogs that happened to make it into a book on animal behaviorism I read.

21st December 2006, 03:29 PM	#11
meg psychic reader Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas USA Posts: 1,430	Here's a link about the dogs sniffing out bladder cancer, which says their rate of success in that experiment was 41%. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6440 Interestingly, that same page has a link to another story about experiments with giant rats being trained to sniff out TB.
	__________________ "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he next comes to drinking and sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas DeQuincey

21st December 2006, 03:54 PM	#12
Dogdoctor Canis Doctorius Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pacific Ocean Posts: 14,329	6 dogs trained for 7 months. If they trained a lot of dogs and picked the best ones they may get better reliability (or not). Often service dogs are weeded out from many who are put through the training.
	__________________

21st December 2006, 04:02 PM	#13
Thitical Crinker Thinker Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 151	My ex-wife is a diabetic. We had a golden retriever that could detect when her sugar was low. I am sure it was a certain odor that Sadie recognized, then she would whine and lick my ex's hand. We knew to check her sugar when Sadie acted this way. She woke her up on more than one occasion in the middle of the night and would not leave her alone until she got her sugar back to normal. As I said, I am sure it was an odor that caused this reaction, but how she learned to act upon it as she did, I have no idea. Sadly, we had to put her down three years ago due to old age. I still miss my Sadie girl.
Thitical Crinker Thinker Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 151	__________________ http://www.stopsylvia.com/

21st December 2006, 04:48 PM	#14
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Dogs are wonderful (and that's coming from a cat lover).
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

22nd December 2006, 06:44 AM	#15
ottle Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 528	Originally Posted by Thitical Crinker My ex-wife is a diabetic. We had a golden retriever that could detect when her sugar was low. I am sure it was a certain odor that Sadie recognized, then she would whine and lick my ex's hand. We knew to check her sugar when Sadie acted this way. She woke her up on more than one occasion in the middle of the night and would not leave her alone until she got her sugar back to normal. As I said, I am sure it was an odor that caused this reaction, but how she learned to act upon it as she did, I have no idea. Sadly, we had to put her down three years ago due to old age. I still miss my Sadie girl. Awwww... what-a-goo'puppy!!! Sorry about your loss - I have three completely not useful dogs and I will be a train wreck when I lose them...

22nd December 2006, 06:46 AM	#16
ottle Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Out to Lunch Posts: 528	Originally Posted by Katana Dogs are wonderful (and that's coming from a cat lover). Yeah, but you're not going to see a lot of cancer detecting cats... they may notice it but they won't do anything about it You don't see a lot of sheep-herding cats or cats pulling people out of burning buildings either... But I won't turn this thread into dogs vs. cats Even I will admit there are a few cats in the world that aren't completely evil ...