Can someone be scared into becoming a Christian

Yahweh · 29th June 2003, 10:54 PM

Out of nowhere, a conversation I had with one of my students from years ago popped into my head. It went something like this:

"Religion and Faith Week" rolled by again. And I was talking to the students about the "philosophies of the unknown". One girl raised her hand and she told a nice story.
"Well, umm, I had an atheist friend and he was like really really atheist. We got into the conversation of God and he said he didnt believe in God. I told him that if he didnt believe in God then God will send him to Hell where he'll burn in a lake of fire and brimstone. He didnt believe me but then we talked for like almost an hour and I made him believe in God."
I'm not allowed to get mad at the children when they say unbelievably stupid things. I'm also not supposed to be "accusatory" or challenge other students beliefs (because its a classroom, strict rules against it). I couldnt think of anything to respond because obviously, this event may have happened... so there is no way I could challenge the validity of this students story without directly "attacking her beliefs". The schools are very strict in ensuring that all beliefs are tolerated without question.

It is weird for me. I think that "Hell" and "The Devil" are just proganda to help recruit more people into the Christian faith. I know there are some beliefs that say there is only a Heaven and no Hell (...thats another thing. Alot of my Christian students tend to have a very hard time grasping the belief that Heaven could exist without Hell).

Personally, on the subject of faith, I believe someone is ignorant if somehow scare tactics have a more weighty effect than rationality.

Quinn · 30th June 2003, 12:52 AM

"Can someone be scared into becoming a Christian?"

Hell yes! Scared into becoming one, and scared into staying one.

After all, it's not just fear of eternal damnation, but also fear of angering your parents/teachers/minister, of being rejected by your friends and family, of being ostracized by society, of not being able to make it through tough times without God to help you, of not being able to live a moral life without religion to tell you what to do and not to do... and that's just off the top of my head.

The church I play piano for (hey, a gig's a gig) is a pretty basic, low key, fire and brimstone-free Protestant affair, which I used to consider pretty benign as churches go. But lately I'm becoming increasingly irritated at the central theme they seem to keep hammering home week after week: "You're not good enough to make it on your own. You don't have the strength to get through life without God's help, which you don't even deserve because you're a sinner, but he's nice enough to help you anyway, so you'd best be plenty thankful." The more I hear it, the more it's sounding like a ploy keep people scared and guilt-ridden so they'll keep coming back for their weekly fix of forgiveness.

And that's one of the more mellow, non-scary churches. I can only imagine the scare tactics that go down at the holy roller joints.

Quinn

Marc · 30th June 2003, 04:00 AM

You can't challenge them, but maybe you can state your opinion and let him challenge you?

Landis · 30th June 2003, 09:41 AM

The Christian religion has two main tenets, if you are good and believe in Jesus, you will be rewarded by a place in Heaven. If you are bad and don't believe in Jesus, God will punish you severely and burn you in Hell for all eternity.

As an Atheist I don't believe there is a God, but if the Christian God describe above is real, then I would rather burn in Hell than spend an eternity worshipping that Ogre in Heaven.

It's interesting that the Oklahoma City Bomber, Timothy McVeigh was quite calm at his death because he knew God was going to forgive him for killing 160 innocent men, women and children, just because he believed in God and Jesus. I guess the Christians can enjoy spending their time in Heaven with Tim, and the little children whom he deprived of a life on earth are all sitting on his knee.

triadboy · 30th June 2003, 09:50 AM

Fear is what Xianity is based on. Without fear there would be no religion called Christianity.

Lord Kenneth · 30th June 2003, 09:50 AM

Edit: Nevermind.

scribble · 30th June 2003, 11:04 AM

Yes, a person can be scared into being a christian.

I was, and if I ever go back to Christianity, it'll be out of fear.

I remember, as a child, being afraid and sleepless often contemplating the prayer my parents taught me. In their defense, I dont' think they could have realized what it meant to a child.

Quote:

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake,
I pray the Lord my soul to take.

Scared the bejeezus out of me, it did. And into me, I guess.

Anyhow, having grown up with the promise of eternal life, it's real hard for me to cope with the idea of my own mortality. If I were to ever go backt o Christianity, it'd likely be as a direct result of my inability to cope with that fear.

triadboy · 30th June 2003, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scribble

Anyhow, having grown up with the promise of eternal life, it's real hard for me to cope with the idea of my own mortality. If I were to ever go back to Christianity, it'd likely be as a direct result of my inability to cope with that fear.

How could you 'go back' knowing it isn't real?

Tricky · 30th June 2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by triadboy
Fear is what Xianity is based on. Without fear there would be no religion called Christianity.

IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die."

scribble · 30th June 2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by triadboy

How could you 'go back' knowing it isn't real?

I've got it all planned out. It'll likely take the application of some pretty severe drugs... anyone know where I can get a good supply of Royphenol?

:P

Seriously, I try to play things off lightly on the board, but my own mortality's a big enough problem for me that I could probably convince myself to indulge in some insanity. At some point down the road, mind you -- right now I'm still determined to get over it.

-Chris

scribble · 30th June 2003, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die."

Bingo.

Personally, if I do decide to go back to God, I may take a good long look at just becoming a solipsist. Seems like it would offer many advantages here and now.

-Chris

jimlintott · 30th June 2003, 01:16 PM

I know I'm going to heaven. I have a receipt.

Ratman_tf · 30th June 2003, 02:20 PM

Of course they can. Jack Chick makes a living off of scaring people into Christianity and keeping them there.

CapelDodger · 30th June 2003, 02:52 PM

I like to think I've scared a few people out of it. Religion, of course, is mostly down to the warm, fuzzy feeling it gives the lumpen. If you get one of those Xians pinned down and point out to them exactly what this god-business actually implies - what is it about blood for this creature? - they can go a bit green about the gills.

Quote:

He didnt believe me but then we talked for like almost an hour and I made him believe in God.

After an hour he'd say anything. Just get out of my face, woman. The man's either a hero or it took him that long to realise a f**k was right out of the question.

(There is no connection to be made between those two paragraphs, despite the use of the term "pinned-down".)

triadboy · 30th June 2003, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky

IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die."

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

29th June 2003, 10:54 PM	#1
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Can someone be scared into becoming a Christian Out of nowhere, a conversation I had with one of my students from years ago popped into my head. It went something like this: "Religion and Faith Week" rolled by again. And I was talking to the students about the "philosophies of the unknown". One girl raised her hand and she told a nice story. "Well, umm, I had an atheist friend and he was like really really atheist. We got into the conversation of God and he said he didnt believe in God. I told him that if he didnt believe in God then God will send him to Hell where he'll burn in a lake of fire and brimstone. He didnt believe me but then we talked for like almost an hour and I made him believe in God." I'm not allowed to get mad at the children when they say unbelievably stupid things. I'm also not supposed to be "accusatory" or challenge other students beliefs (because its a classroom, strict rules against it). I couldnt think of anything to respond because obviously, this event may have happened... so there is no way I could challenge the validity of this students story without directly "attacking her beliefs". The schools are very strict in ensuring that all beliefs are tolerated without question. It is weird for me. I think that "Hell" and "The Devil" are just proganda to help recruit more people into the Christian faith. I know there are some beliefs that say there is only a Heaven and no Hell (...thats another thing. Alot of my Christian students tend to have a very hard time grasping the belief that Heaven could exist without Hell). Personally, on the subject of faith, I believe someone is ignorant if somehow scare tactics have a more weighty effect than rationality.
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

30th June 2003, 12:52 AM	#2
Quinn Breathtakingly blasphemous. Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,887	"Can someone be scared into becoming a Christian?" Hell yes! Scared into becoming one, and scared into staying one. After all, it's not just fear of eternal damnation, but also fear of angering your parents/teachers/minister, of being rejected by your friends and family, of being ostracized by society, of not being able to make it through tough times without God to help you, of not being able to live a moral life without religion to tell you what to do and not to do... and that's just off the top of my head. The church I play piano for (hey, a gig's a gig) is a pretty basic, low key, fire and brimstone-free Protestant affair, which I used to consider pretty benign as churches go. But lately I'm becoming increasingly irritated at the central theme they seem to keep hammering home week after week: "You're not good enough to make it on your own. You don't have the strength to get through life without God's help, which you don't even deserve because you're a sinner, but he's nice enough to help you anyway, so you'd best be plenty thankful." The more I hear it, the more it's sounding like a ploy keep people scared and guilt-ridden so they'll keep coming back for their weekly fix of forgiveness. And that's one of the more mellow, non-scary churches. I can only imagine the scare tactics that go down at the holy roller joints. Quinn
	__________________ It's not a matter of living life without mystery or wonder. It's a matter of living life without the approval of people who ignorantly assume that by rejecting the irrational, I experience no mystery or wonder. And frankly, I do just fine without that.

30th June 2003, 04:00 AM	#3
Marc Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,165	You can't challenge them, but maybe you can state your opinion and let him challenge you?
Marc Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,165	__________________ So many cults, not enough comets. A child of 5 could understand this! Quick, someone fetch a child of 5! "Scientology is evil; its techniques are evil; its practice is a serious threat to the community, medically, morally, and socially; and its adherents are sadly deluded and often mentally ill... (Scientology is) the world's largest organization of unqualified persons engaged in the practice of dangerous techniques which masquerade as mental therapy." Justice Anderson, Supreme Court of Victoria, Australia

30th June 2003, 09:41 AM	#4
Landis Scholar Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 114	The Christian religion has two main tenets, if you are good and believe in Jesus, you will be rewarded by a place in Heaven. If you are bad and don't believe in Jesus, God will punish you severely and burn you in Hell for all eternity. As an Atheist I don't believe there is a God, but if the Christian God describe above is real, then I would rather burn in Hell than spend an eternity worshipping that Ogre in Heaven. It's interesting that the Oklahoma City Bomber, Timothy McVeigh was quite calm at his death because he knew God was going to forgive him for killing 160 innocent men, women and children, just because he believed in God and Jesus. I guess the Christians can enjoy spending their time in Heaven with Tim, and the little children whom he deprived of a life on earth are all sitting on his knee.
Landis Scholar Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 114	__________________ LannyRay

30th June 2003, 09:50 AM	#6
Lord Kenneth Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,623	Re: Can someone be scared into becoming a Christian Edit: Nevermind.
Lord Kenneth Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,623

30th June 2003, 09:50 AM	#5
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Fear is what Xianity is based on. Without fear there would be no religion called Christianity.

30th June 2003, 11:04 AM	#7
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Yes, a person can be scared into being a christian. I was, and if I ever go back to Christianity, it'll be out of fear. I remember, as a child, being afraid and sleepless often contemplating the prayer my parents taught me. In their defense, I dont' think they could have realized what it meant to a child. Quote: Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep. If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take. Scared the bejeezus out of me, it did. And into me, I guess. Anyhow, having grown up with the promise of eternal life, it's real hard for me to cope with the idea of my own mortality. If I were to ever go backt o Christianity, it'd likely be as a direct result of my inability to cope with that fear.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

30th June 2003, 11:16 AM	#8
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Quote: Originally posted by scribble Anyhow, having grown up with the promise of eternal life, it's real hard for me to cope with the idea of my own mortality. If I were to ever go back to Christianity, it'd likely be as a direct result of my inability to cope with that fear. How could you 'go back' knowing it isn't real?

30th June 2003, 11:26 AM	#9
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,363	Quote: Originally posted by triadboy Fear is what Xianity is based on. Without fear there would be no religion called Christianity. IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die."

30th June 2003, 11:33 AM	#10
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by triadboy How could you 'go back' knowing it isn't real? I've got it all planned out. It'll likely take the application of some pretty severe drugs... anyone know where I can get a good supply of Royphenol? :P Seriously, I try to play things off lightly on the board, but my own mortality's a big enough problem for me that I could probably convince myself to indulge in some insanity. At some point down the road, mind you -- right now I'm still determined to get over it. -Chris
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

30th June 2003, 11:34 AM	#11
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die." Bingo. Personally, if I do decide to go back to God, I may take a good long look at just becoming a solipsist. Seems like it would offer many advantages here and now. -Chris
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

30th June 2003, 01:16 PM	#12
jimlintott Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 2,894	I know I'm going to heaven. I have a receipt.
	__________________ If you are going to throw caution to the wind, make sure you are standing upwind.

30th June 2003, 02:20 PM	#13
Ratman_tf Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,002	Of course they can. Jack Chick makes a living off of scaring people into Christianity and keeping them there.

30th June 2003, 02:52 PM	#14
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,744	I like to think I've scared a few people out of it. Religion, of course, is mostly down to the warm, fuzzy feeling it gives the lumpen. If you get one of those Xians pinned down and point out to them exactly what this god-business actually implies - what is it about blood for this creature? - they can go a bit green about the gills. Quote: He didnt believe me but then we talked for like almost an hour and I made him believe in God. After an hour he'd say anything. Just get out of my face, woman. The man's either a hero or it took him that long to realise a f**k was right out of the question. (There is no connection to be made between those two paragraphs, despite the use of the term "pinned-down".)
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

30th June 2003, 07:09 PM	#15
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky IMO, fear is what all religions are based on: the fear of the unknown. Even without a "heaven" or "hell", the thought of not existing at all is terrifying to people, and has been since they first started contemplating the nature of death. They combat this fear with a story for which they choose to suspend disblief. The story varies quite a bit, but the motivation is always the same. "I'm not really gonna die." I agree with you wholeheartedly.