Please summarize Baha'i for me

[saizai]

What are its major tenets? What are its empirical claims, unfalsifiable claims, etc?

What issues are there wrt things skeptics would care about? (Other than its not being atheist.)

One quote I've found from the grand high mucky-muck:

Quote:

The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the unity of God and of His Prophets, upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice, teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony, that it must go hand-in-hand with science, and that it constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society.

It inculcates the principle of equal opportunity, rights and privileges for both sexes, advocates compulsory education, abolishes extremes of poverty and wealth, exalts work performed in the spirit of service to the rank of worship, recommends the adoption of an auxiliary international language, and provides the necessary agencies for the establishment and safeguarding of a permanent and universal peace.

... which would seem to be a good thing. Dunno how much it gets carried out.

[grayman]

Here and here are two official sites you may check out.

Baha'i;s teach Progressive Revelation, the belief that a new prophet comes along to update God's message and tenets to suit the current social conditions, and that Baha'u'llah was the latest in a series of prophets that have included Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus, and Mohammed.

Since Baha'i's do not have clergy, I am not sure whom the "grand high mucky-muck" you refer to would be.

As to equality between sexes, last I knew, women were still not allowed to be voted on to the International Assembly (the administrative body for the faith) in Haifa, Isreal.

All in all though, they are well meaning and generally pleasant to be around.

[SezMe]

I suspect grayman is right but the emphasized part ...

Quote:

The Bahá'í Faith recognizes the unity of God and of His Prophets, upholds the principle of an unfettered search after truth, condemns all forms of superstition and prejudice, teaches that the fundamental purpose of religion is to promote concord and harmony, that it must go hand-in-hand with science, and that it constitutes the sole and ultimate basis of a peaceful, an ordered and progressive society.

... raises a large, red warning flag. Other parts of your quote also would concern me but to a lesser extent.

[Ladewig]

They don't like gays. They are open enough to allow them to attend services, but they are against the concept of homosexuality.

[grayman]

From this site:

Quote:

Baha'i law outlaws homosexual behaviour, among many behaviours. It doesn't outlaw "being gay" as-such, which is an inner state. The writings do say that homosexuality is not a state to which one should reconcile ones self. They do not condemn gay people as being evil, or anything other than children of a merciful God. The Guardian, in fact, expresses sympathy with the difficult journey that a Gay person who wishes to be a Baha'i has in front of them.

Baha'i law is only for those who have dedicated their allegience to Baha'u'llah. Those who are not members are not expected to abide by these same codes of behaviour. To pledge allegience to Baha'u'llah, one commits to follow His laws to the best of one's ability. One can love Baha'u'llah, practice spirituality with Baha'is, pray Baha'i prayers, and do all sorts of things without being a member of the Baha'i faith, wether you're gay or straight. Baha'i's should never treat a gay person with anything but the utmost love and caring.

And from the writings of the faith there is this:

Quote:

Prophet Baha'u'llah stated in 1875 (as translated by Kamran Hakim):

"Say, it is forbidden to you adultery, homosexual relationship, and treachery. Do not commit these O assemblage of believers."

Another translation of the same passage reads:

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery."

The former translation might be interpreted to condemn even celibate gay and lesbian relationships. The latter uses the word "sodomy" which is ambiguous; it might be narrowly interpreted to condemn only anal intercourse, and thus only refer to some male homosexuals. It might have a much wider meaning covering other non-coital sexual activities, and thus include the vast majority of gays and lesbians.

Elsewhere, in "Aqdas", Paragraph 107 states:

"It is forbidden you to wed your fathers' wives. We shrink, for very shame, from treating of the subject of boys. Fear ye the Merciful, O peoples of the world! Commit not that which is forbidden you in Our Holy Tablet, and be not of those who rove distractedly in the wilderness of their desires.

The Arabic word which has been translated here as "boys" appears to imply a reference to the sexual molestation of under-age boys by adult males. This may have been a reference to slave boys kept for sexual purposes. "The Arabic term 'Ghelmaan' is the plural form of the term 'Ghulaam' which according to the Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic is defined as: boy; youth, lad; slave; servant; waiter. 'Ghulaamiya' and 'Ghuluma': youth, youthfulness."

Baha'u'llah selected Abdu'l-Baha to interpret the Baha'i writings after his death. After the death of Abdu'l-Baha, the authority passed to Shoghi Effendi, who was the only authorized interpreter of the Baha'i Teachings until his death in 1957. His interpretations are believed to be based on his infallible understanding of the Texts. He has interpreted the second reference as prohibiting all same-sex activity, including that between consenting gays or lesbians in committed relationships.

A letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, (1950-MAR-26) states that a homosexual relationship is inherently sinful, that it is a handicap to overcome, and that persons with a homosexual orientation can change and become heterosexual. He wrote, in part:

"No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Baha'u'llah, and homosexual relationships he looks upon as such, besides being against nature...To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap."

As with many religious texts, the meanings are open to interpretation.

[saizai]

Originally Posted by Prophet Baha'u'llah

Say, it is forbidden to you adultery, homosexual relationship, and treachery. Do not commit these O assemblage of believers.

... putting those three things in the same breath as if they are more-or-less identical types of acts (i.e. presumably "things based on deceit and with inherent harm to others") has pretty quickly nixed his chances with me at least.

[bluess]

When I was in college, whenever there was a student group forum (lots of tables with folks and pamphlets) the Baha'i folks would avoid making eye contact with anyone who wasn't black. Perhaps this was just a University of Md thing....

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by bluess

When I was in college, whenever there was a student group forum (lots of tables with folks and pamphlets) the Baha'i folks would avoid making eye contact with anyone who wasn't black. Perhaps this was just a University of Md thing....

Probably. I had a friend in MA that was Baha'i and white. They don't seem to discriminate that way.

Due to my friend, I read a little on them. They struck me as an Islamic-inspired nacent UU-type religion. They had an Islamic feel to them, but a more Universal outlook. Still "monothestic", but not rabidly so. But these are all brief feelings that I got from limited exposure, so take it for what it's worth.

[grayman]

The Baha'i' Faith has it's roots from Islam much the way Christianity came forth from Judaism. The previous religion forms the base but the new religion is something that grows from it.

As far as the racial thing goes, Baha'i's believe there's one race, the human race.

kmortis, what part of Massachusetts? Just wondering if I know them.

[kmortis]

Originally Posted by grayman

The Baha'i' Faith has it's roots from Islam much the way Christianity came forth from Judaism. The previous religion forms the base but the new religion is something that grows from it.

As far as the racial thing goes, Baha'i's believe there's one race, the human race.

Well, that makes sense. He and I chatted about it a bit, but never got too far. He wasn't very devout, he hung with us Evil Pagans & Agnostic more than he did any Baha'i'. FWIR, you're right. He'd made that kind of racial statment a few times when the subject of tolerance would come up.

[Nancarrow]

Originally Posted by grayman

[url="http://www.bahai.org/"]
Baha'i;s teach Progressive Revelation, the belief that a new prophet comes along to update God's message and tenets to suit the current social conditions, and that Baha'u'llah was the latest in a series of prophets that have included Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Jesus, and Mohammed.

Now that is interesting.

What will the Baha'i do when the next prophet comes along? Will they rename themselves and follow the new prophet? If not, why not?

And given that these prophets "update God's message... to suit the current social conditions"... what if this next prophet says homosexuality is just fine?

[grayman]

When the next Prophet comes along they will deny him (her?) and call him a heretic. That's seems to be a standard format.

However, it isn't supposed to happen for at least another 850 years, so I'm not gonna lose any sleep worrying about it..

[pchams]

Sounds to me as if they would conform to the next prophet.
That's a good thing, 'cause I'm the next prophet.
My only proclamations are as thus:

1. Respect your neighbour as long as they respect socially ethical law.
(If the social ethical law offends you move)

2. Monies previously squandered on military spending shall be diverted to a
new council dedicated to a useful program for feeding and educating the less fortunate.

3. The principles of procreation are to be taught to grade schoolers,
with the idea that children require love and attention.


...or else you will burn in hellfire....yadda yadda yadda

[Beleth]

My stepmother-in-law (the one who is larried to my transcendental-meditating father-in-law) is a Baha'i. She's white; in fact she's Scandinavian.

They seem to have their heads screwed on straight. They remind me of Unitarians in their level of acceptance of others. They do have some odd policies (separation of state and church, for lack of a better term; Bahai's are told not to run for public office) an an interesting fixation with the number 19 but overall pretty moderate.

Nancarrow, that's an interesting question, what they will do when the next prophet comes along; they do seem to say that they expect another to come, but who knows what they will do when someone claims to be the next one. I'll ask my SMIL next time I see her.

[saizai]

UUs think gays are just fine. Actually, UUs seem to think basically everything is fine; I'm not sure it could be called a 'religion' given their lack of doctrine. More like a meta-religious liberal social organization.

[Kopji]

The book that will take your breath away is 'A Thief in the Night' by William Sears, you can still get it on Amazon. It recounts page by page and scripture how every prophecy in the Bible was fulfilled by Baha'ullah's arrival.

You see, back in the 1840's everyone was looking for the Second Coming, just like now only much more fervently. Mormonism arose from this frothy environment, and also 7th day adventists. Maybe Christian Science too. Almost everyone was a 'dispensationalist' and these new religions were signs of the second coming.

But to Christians, Christ did not come when a literal Bible reading predicted and so the 'arrival' goalposts moved for almost every single Christian religion. Most people today do not even know what dispensationalism is.

...Except for some believers in the Islamic world who would later become the Bahai's. To the Bahai's, everything happened just as prophesied in the Bible and also the Quran: Christ came, the Antichrist came, the great battle of good and evil was won. A new age arrived and this is our day of judgment.

[Ladewig]

The only other thing I really know about the Baha'is is that in Iran, some Muslims hate them as much as they hate Jews.


http://www.bahai.com/thebahais/pg59.htm

Quote:

Throughout the past century, the Bahá'ís of Iran have been persecuted. With the triumph of the Islamic revolution in 1979, this persecution has been systematized. More than 200 Bahá'ís have been executed or killed, hundreds more have been imprisoned, and tens of thousands have been deprived of jobs, pensions, businesses, and educational opportunities. All national Bahá'í administrative structures have been banned by the Government, and holy places, shrines and cemeteries have been confiscated, vandalized, or destroyed.