Moderated: Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[WGBH]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

It's far better than turtling and keeping that gripping fear you've held onto so long.

I am going to the Dismal Swamp State Park this Saturday. I am going alone.

[skullerello]

Once, I scared a young lady who was driving the car I was riding in. I clearly witnessed a motorcyclist stop directly in front of us while we were driving, and almost caused a pile-up on the county lane we were motoring along; I was tired, I was in hipnogogic dream-state, and there was no such motorcyclist ahead of us. It was all in my imagination.
Could it be that your "bigfoot encounter" occurred under similar circumstances?!

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

We were talking about the overwhelming odor WGBH associated with the animal he witnessed. I suggested that the odor, if objectively real, might have derived from some other unseen but nearby source, such as a refuse heap or decomposing carcass. Archangel seems to think the odor might have emanated from a bear, which I cannot reject as a reasonable possibility without having experienced the odor myself.

WGBH, if you're still willing to talk about your sighting in a respectful yet investigative environment, would you care to comment on these observations? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Actually, just to clarify my position I have no idea what he smelled and don't want to say that it might've emanated from a bear.
I just feel that a physical source of odour cannot be ruled out as less likely than a hallucinated one.

I do have to ask for some clarification from someone who knows the area in question, the swamps I've been to here in Australia all smell bloody awful for the most part does the one in question have a similar sort of odour?

As I understand it the odour that occurs in swamps can be attributed to the rotting vegetation and animals, coupled with the moistness of the area.
The rotting process can lead to build ups of noxious smelling gases, especially if trapped under the usual layer of mud that is in a swamp.

If expelled this could create a small pocket of less oxygenated air, which could potentially have a foul smell (ie swamp gas).

The lack of oxygen in the area could bring on some of the symptoms that WGBH described (ie nausea etc) and if he was feeling faint enough it's also possible that he may have started to hallucinate things.

It could also explain why the rest of the group did not smell anything by the time they got back, it had dissipated.

Note:
I'm not claiming this is what happened, nor that it's even likely just that it might be another possible explanation.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by WGBH

I am going to the Dismal Swamp State Park this Saturday. I am going alone.

Cool! Why? Will you go to the area where you had your sighting?

Are you apprehensive about it?

BTW, isn't it nice discover skeptics are human, too, and this place isn't full of hatred?

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by lightfire22000

I saw a gigantic raccoon in the shadow of a wild turkey in my yard and I thought it was one animal for a second.

I'm sorry, lightfire but you'll just have to try harder if you want to impress us with raccoon antics. Our bar has been set pretty high...

[WGBH]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

Cool! Why? Will you go to the area where you had your sighting?

Are you apprehensive about it?

BTW, isn't it nice discover skeptics are human, too, and this place isn't full of hatred?

I am going there because I want to get outside this weekend. I have to go alone because I have no other researchers around my area to go with me. I am going to the Dismal Swamp State park. It is only a few miles from the area of my sighting. No I have never been there before. I will be going during the day and I am just going to walk some trails, so I should be OK.If I see a Ranger or a Ranger station, maybe ask a few questions.

[learner]

Originally Posted by skullerello

Once, I scared a young lady who was driving the car I was riding in. I clearly witnessed a motorcyclist stop directly in front of us while we were driving, and almost caused a pile-up on the county lane we were motoring along; I was tired, I was in hipnogogic dream-state, and there was no such motorcyclist ahead of us. It was all in my imagination.
Could it be that your "bigfoot encounter" occurred under similar circumstances?!

Similar story to report. Dark lane, me driving tired, a massive mound of soil appears in the middle of the road just after a bend. I had no time to stop and braced myself as i applied hard braking. I ended up sideways across the lane. I assumed i had missed it somehow and got out to look, Nothing! just a clear lane. I was so tired i was hallucinating. I can still see that mound of soil in my minds eye. Even the colour of the soil.

[JohnWS]

Some time ago (perhaps a couple of years) I'm sure I found some information on-line regarding some 'apparitions' being experienced after a bend in the road.

I think it was suggesting highway hypnosis may somehow trigger the experience due to the added stimulus of bend in the road. I'm sure it also linked this theory to some cultural 'demonic manifestations'. I immediately thought of those bigfoot sightings that are allegedly experienced by drivers.

However, I never saved the link and never found it again. Perhaps it was an hallucination . I wish I could find it again!

[Drewbot]

JOHNWS
Many drivers who are falling asleep at the wheel 'see' things just before they go off the road. Many 1 car accident victims will say there was a tire in the road, or a horse in the road, and after investigating, the officer will find evidence of neither.

These are usually considered a falling-asleep-at the wheel incident.

[JohnWS]

It's purely this bend in the road thing that is bugging me (though there may well be nothing too it). I think I even mentioned it to you at the time - I certainly remember seeing reference to police officers investigating an accident only to find the alleged tyre was not present after all.

Edit: It seems after all that I may be suffering from a faulty memory in this case. Googling various permutations of what I was trying to find lead me to a particular alleged 'haunting'. That lead me to look through a book I have. What do I find? A suggestion that some UFO & ghost sightings may be the result of drivers experiencing internally generated phenomena triggered by concentration followed by a sudden change in circumstance - such as a bend in the road!

Originally Posted by JohnWS

Perhaps it was an hallucination . I wish I could find it again!

[Vortigern99]

Time and again in this thread, we've been introduced to evidence that hallucination is a known and studied human phenomenon, often experienced as a one-time event by otherwise sane and normal persons, with no stigma attached to the phenomenon.

WGBH, no one likes to admit to being duped, especially by the workings of one's own mind; and given your apparently negative outlook on people who have hallucinations, it's understandable that you don't want to consider too deeply the likelihood that you are one of them.

Nonetheless, I invite you to put aside your personal feelings about hallucinations and those who experience them, and to consider empirically that your sighting may very well have been one such instance. The facts of the event as you've reported them -- your hunger, lack of sleep, nausea, collapse, isolation, a new and unfamiliar environment -- are all fully consistent with the conditions we can expect for hallucination to occur.

Others here have been forthcoming with their anecdotal accounts of hallucination. Kitakaze has described in detail the demonic/spectral entity he sometimes sees during one of his recurring episodes of sleep paralysis. Learner and skullerero have both described their road-visions which were almost certainly hypnagogic hallucinations. I myself have experienced mild hypnagogic hallucinations (dreaming about features of the room I'm sleeping in while my eyes are open observing them). No one here is deriding or ostracizing us for being "insane" or mentally incompetent.

If you will examine objectively the facts of your sighting, taking all possibilities into account, you will likely see that there is no cause to reject the most likely, scientific and consistent explanation: that you had a hypnagogic (between sleep and waking) or hypnopompic (post-waking) hallucination.

[Telaynay's G'son]

I'm not (scientifically) sure exactly what we observed but a 14' towerstand similar to the one in the attachment was slammed over within 45 minutes of the observation.

The next day, examination of the stand location revealed no evidence of the struggle necessary (stand weighs ~1200+ lbs. and was nailed to an adjacent tree w/landscape nails) to topple it (one partial heel foot print was found) as it took five grown men and a 1500# winch on a 4WATV to right it.

Go figure...


http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...14-2007-50.jpg

[kitakaze]

JohnWS, your avatar is awesome. You have a Bootsyfoot!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtAFO...eature=related

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

You have a Bootsyfoot!

Ahhhh yes, the Motor-Booty Affair. I am Sir Nose and I knows how it goes.

[JohnWS]

Thank you Kit' - that is indeed the source inspiration for my avatar .

[makaya325]

Originally Posted by Blackdog

Please don't assume to speak for me. You're as much to blame as he is for his BS. You encouraged him. I think you looked at him as your pet project.

I don't care about his bigfoot belief one way or the other.
He and his friends are playing this board, like all the others he's posted on, for fools.
He(they) Google relevant topics and post them here whether they understand what they are saying or not.

How are his postings any better than any other goofball who posts on any other board?

Screw his age...when I was 20 I at least attempted to form a sentence and tried to think for myself.

Why do you like attacking every word i post? Do you have a grudge against me? Do you hate me?

[ForestNinja]

I usually just lurk around this site and having spent some time now reading this thread I feel the need to a least post just this one time on WGBH's behalf. Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion, based upon my own experiences with "bigfoot-like" creatures in the woods.

John is pretty brave to be posting his experience on this site, for sure, and I am duly impressed at how well he is being treated here, for the most part.

However, I just have to say that I think it is ludicrous for John to accept any other explanation for his encounter except for what it is. He saw a bigfoot-like creature. I believe him.

I wrote a dissertation awhile back on the BFF, that I expounded on more in one of my blog writings, concerning the different personalities in the "bigfoot community". Part of it concerned the differences between "believers" and "knowers".

The difference between John and some others is that John is a "knower", not a "believer". You can "believe" all the evidence (whether it is scientific or not) that you want, but until you have your own sighting, you can never be a "knower". Whether he likes it or not, John is in the class of "Knowers".

Only those who "believe" in bigfoot will argue with a skeptic. Those that "know" these creatures exist won't waste their time. It is something like a Christian arguing with an Atheist about religion. It is a no-winner, for either side.

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

If you will examine objectively the facts of your sighting, taking all possibilities into account, you will likely see that there is no cause to reject the most likely, scientific and consistent explanation: that you had a hypnagogic (between sleep and waking) or hypnopompic (post-waking) hallucination.

I am not a amateur psychiatrist, like some folks here, however I truly believe that those that claim to have had hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations must be truly weak minded to believe that malarkey and to believe that it applies to John's experience. (Don't take it personal, I am not slamming anybody in particular).

John may be weak willed, but he sure as hell is not weak minded. Anybody that has read his postings on the various forums/messages boards can attest to that.

You guys have been so busy sharpening Occam's Razor in this thread that it has become a dull blade. John has posted his encounter. He has never wavered from what he has originally stated concerning his encounter. I think he has done a pretty good job, considering he was 17 when it happened. I am sure there could be more learned from him, however, his PTSD over the incident probably has closed his mind off to some of the events and he can't recall everything.

One thing I would like to mention, that I hope John finds useful in his quest to unravel this mystery, is that based upon my own experiences with these creatures, I believe that John's encounter involved not one, but two creatures. These creatures hardly ever hunt singularly. They almost always tag-team. I am not sure what the purpose is when they are foraging for plant foodstuffs, unless one is supposed to stand watch while the other eats. When hunting live prey, one seems to always drive the prey into an ambush by the other.

I find it doubtful, that the one that John saw, put "the stink" on him. There is no indication in John's report that the creature passed by his deer stand, before he stepped out in front of him. Given that John was guesstimating that the creature was approximately 50 yds in front of him, I find it doubtful that any smell was being given off from the creature that John could have smelled. I believe that the "stink" that John smelled probably came from the other creature that was hiding in the brush closer to the deer stand.

(Oh, and speaking of the "stink" that John got a whiff of, just like a "creature sighting", there is no way a person can ever truly describe the "smell". It is like nothing you have ever smelled before and once you smell it, you will never forget it. It will make your eyes water and can very well make you "sick to your stomach".)

I don't believe these creatures are harmful to humans, however, it is not the one you see in the woods that you should be worried about, it is his partner hiding behind you in the brush that should give you cause for reflection. I can only imagine how much more John's reaction would be if he ascertained that another creature was closer to the deer stand during his encounter.

Of course, like I said earlier in this post, these are only my opinions, base upon my own experience with these creatures. I am not here to post about my experiences. Just to give John some "food for thought" concerning his own encounter.

The only other thing that I would tell John is that I wouldn't let a bad experience when I was 17 keep me from going out and having some fun in the woods.

I think you should buck up, go out into the woods, find the sucker and kick him in the ass!

[Vortigern99]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

I am not a amateur psychiatrist, like some folks here, however I truly believe that those that claim to have had hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations must be truly weak minded to believe that malarkey and to believe that it applies to John's experience. (Don't take it personal, I am not slamming anybody in particular).

John may be weak willed, but he sure as hell is not weak minded. Anybody that has read his postings on the various forums/messages boards can attest to that.

Pywacket, if you're implying that by stating my opinion that hallucination is the most likely explanation here, I am an "amateur psychiatrist", my response is that deductive reasoning, and logical analysis of claims, are not the sole province of degreed professionals. They can also be applied by laymen and/or experts in other fields of study.

I said before, and you might have missed this or perhaps find it irrelevant, that in preparation for an unpublished novel, I researched sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucination at some length, and wrote about the phenomenon from a first-person, subjective viewpoint. I have also experienced mild episodes on several occasions. This is as much to say that I understand the phenomenon and feel qualified to opine where it appears to be happening, or to have happened.

So, by your phrasing "those that claim to have had hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations must be truly weak minded to believe that malarkey", do you mean to suggest that Kitakaze, for one, actually wrestles with spectres or demonic entities during his sleep, which supernaturally vanish on his waking? That Learner and Skullerero actually witnessed objectively real objects on the road, which then vanished into thin air, and/or which a companion, namely the driver, never saw? That is an interesting claim.

I wonder what you would make of the numerous scientific studies investigating the phenomena of sleep paralysis and hypnagogic hallucination? Is your contention that the investigators in those studies are "weak minded" and believe in "malarkey", because they have concluded that these are effects of the mind, as opposed to real demonic entities that torture people, invisibly to others I might add, while the victims sleep?

Again, you make the most fascinating claims.

[drapier]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

One thing I would like to mention, that I hope John finds useful in his quest to unravel this mystery, is that based upon my own experiences with these creatures, I believe that John's encounter involved not one, but two creatures. These creatures hardly ever hunt singularly. They almost always tag-team. I am not sure what the purpose is when they are foraging for plant foodstuffs, unless one is supposed to stand watch while the other eats. When hunting live prey, one seems to always drive the prey into an ambush by the other.

It sounds as if you have had multiple encounters with these creatures. Would you care to tell us about an encounter or two? Do you take a camera with you when you go out to watch them?

[William Parcher]

It occurs to me that John's BF encounter presents a real paradox. Why hasn't somebody killed one yet? They are often described as highly intelligent and wary. Yet this BF exposed itself for a good length of time near a deer stand that also happened to contain a hunter with a rifle. Some other hunter in that situation, seeing the shaggy 9x6 ape creature, and being as certain as John was, would have changed the entire world by aiming and shooting a huge target. Even a non-lethal shot would provide DNA-rich blood.

John's Bigfoot showed that these creatures will expose themselves and apparently not perceive of the danger that a human-constructed hunting stand could present to them. It did not study or determine the fact that the stand contained a lethal threat. It did not avoid the side of the stand with the mail-slot opening that brings death.

John's Bigfoot showed that these creatures are very vulnerable to humans and it makes one wonder why they have not been scientifically confirmed because of this.

[Blackdog]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

*sigh* BD, sometimes I get the distinct impression you seek out conflict.

I wouldn't say I seek it out, I think it's more being honest and saying what's on my mind if I feel I want to. Sometimes I'm right and other times I wrong to do so. You might do the same thing too.

Quote:

I encouraged little mak absolutely - to think critically. I need no mini-me's but I do have a pet project - getting people to think realistically about Bigfoot. I like it. I find it mentally stimulating. I consider Vort's turnaround to be by far the best I've seen in a while.

It's kind of easy on a skeptics board considering that a true skeptic is already a critical thinker.
I see you post at SFB, why not BFF? If you really want a challenge you should try it there. You could be the first of many who have tried and haven't achieved the desired results.
Some of those would include me, Wolftrax, RayG, SG, Tube, Longtabber, Desertyeti, JohnWS, Dfoot (sorry if I left anyone out) not to mention many of the oldtime regulars there who don't post here but are still beating there heads against the wall trying to get people to try and use an ounce of critical thinking.

Quote:

Little mak can work his kinks out or be a nuisance, it's his choice.

I'm not sure he has a choice, maybe Mak is what he is.

Quote:

I will only continue to address false claims and poor reasoning. I'm certainly not going to bicker with you over nothing.

I'm not interested in bickering either, and you are welcome to try and get inside of lil' mak's head all you want, I just don't appreciate people speaking on my behalf when they have no idea why I said what I did.

Quote:

Try not to read motivations in me that aren't there. You can guess but when I tell you staright what the deal is, please don't think I'm going to be dishonest with you.

I would appreciate the same courtesy.

Quote:

You still think makaya is multiple people. I don't. I know his writing and he sends me PM's asking me questions all the time. He romantically likes the idea od Bigfoot. He may grow out of it or he may continue to fool around on discussion boards. When he asks me a question or says something wrong I'll tell him what I think.

His posting style has settled down into something more recognizable as one person lately, but you have to admit there have been times he's bounced around from nearly illiterate to almost scholarly. Lately he seems more like a 12 year old.

Quote:

I don't need pets, dog. Concubines maybe. Not pets.

I have two dogs and a cat but a concubine might be nice. Does my wife have to know?

[clayflingythingy]

Since BF is a creature of myth, those who think they have seen one need to search for other explantions.

One of my most vivid memories from my childhood was seeing Santus Claus peeping in on me to see if I was "naughty or nice". As a child I thought I saw Santa. As an adult I think I was the victim of an halucination brought on by excitement.

Same with BF. BF doesn't exist so other explanations must be sought.

[makaya325]

Originally Posted by clayflingythingy

Since BF is a creature of myth, those who think they have seen one need to search for other explantions.

One of my most vivid memories from my childhood was seeing Santus Claus peeping in on me to see if I was "naughty or nice". As a child I thought I saw Santa. As an adult I think I was the victim of an halucination brought on by excitement.

Same with BF. BF doesn't exist so other explanations must be sought.

Not only is it non-existent, but something like that Never could have existed.

[Vortigern99]

And yet you expressed to me in a PM only two weeks ago that you believed in BF's existence. And in this very thread, you've opined that BF is more likely to exist in the PNW than anywhere else in NA. How could a non-existent creature be "more likely" to exist in one location than another? Either you think it exists or you don't. Which is it?

[makaya325]

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

And yet you expressed to me in a PM only two weeks ago that you believed in BF's existence. And in this very thread, you've opined that BF is more likely to exist in the PNW than anywhere else in NA. How could a non-existent creature be "more likely" to exist in one location than another? Either you think it exists or you don't. Which is it?

I would LIKE for it to exist. I guess you can call me romantic. I really want them to exist.

What i believe is that it is incredibly unlikely for the largest NA Mammal to have never been run over, found dead/alive, no fossils, no scat, no nothing. While i do not think it is even real, I BELIEVE that The Bigfoot Phenomona is mainly a Pacific Northwest kind of thing.

[Vortigern99]

Hey, good answer. I want them to exist, too. In that, we agree. The problem, of course, is that there isn't any non-hoaxable, non-anecdotal, independently verifiable evidence for them. But now I'm screwing a dead chimp, so I'll stop.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by Blackdog

His posting style has settled down into something more recognizable as one person lately, but you have to admit there have been times he's bounced around from nearly illiterate to almost scholarly. Lately he seems more like a 12 year old.

Mak is rather easy to find in the various forums that talk about Bigfoot. It is his habit to create sock puppets on these forums. At present, he is a number of different "people" on the BFF. When the BFF banned "blue bear" and "duke of earl", they simply clipped two toenails. Those were both mak and he lied when he said the duke was a friend.

His "new man" thread here is a scam. He didn't have any epiphany provided by KKZ and Correa. During his years and 1000's of posts on Unexplained Mysteries Forum, he battled with some sharp BF skeptics who explained the exact same things we do here. He's been through this over and over and over already. His makaya325 persona was banned there, but he wears the socks and so he rolls on.

A new man is meaningless as it only means the mak, in this forum, is going to act like a BF skeptic. He picks up a different microphone when he makes his posts on BFF. He is quite the storyteller where the Bigfooters gather. But of course, it's still little mak doing the talking. The naive boy who simply wants to learn is just another persona.

A troll. A human factory cranking out sock puppets like a chicken laying eggs. He is very experienced with that stuff, and UMF and BFF are his playgrounds. We all seek our own pastimes. Mak has chosen his. Itz just another day on teh internets.

[makaya325]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Mak is rather easy to find in the various forums that talk about Bigfoot. It is his habit to create sock puppets on these forums. At present, he is a number of different "people" on the BFF. When the BFF banned "blue bear" and "duke of earl", they simply clipped two toenails. Those were both mak and he lied when he said the duke was a friend.

His "new man" thread here is a scam. He didn't have any epiphany provided by KKZ and Correa. During his years and 1000's of posts on Unexplained Mysteries Forum, he battled with some sharp BF skeptics who explained the exact same things we do here. He's been through this over and over and over already. His makaya325 persona was banned there, but he wears the socks and so he rolls on.

A new man is meaningless as it only means the mak, in this forum, is going to act like a BF skeptic. He picks up a different microphone when he makes his posts on BFF. He is quite the storyteller where the Bigfooters gather. But of course, it's still little mak doing the talking. The naive boy who simply wants to learn is just another persona.

A troll. A human factory cranking out sock puppets like a chicken laying eggs. He is very experienced with that stuff, and UMF and BFF are his playgrounds. We all seek our own pastimes. Mak has chosen his. Itz just another day on teh internets.

Why dont you consider the fact that i am growing up, and am becoming more skeptical of bigfoot, and rethinking my former beliefs?

[WGBH]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

(Oh, and speaking of the "stink" that John got a whiff of, just like a "creature sighting", there is no way a person can ever truly describe the "smell". It is like nothing you have ever smelled before and once you smell it, you will never forget it. It will make your eyes water and can very well make you "sick to your stomach".)

Everyone who has been asking me to describe the smell, Pywacket just described it very well.

I am sorry, I need to take a break from answering these questions right now. No one has done anything wrong, my health is not good at the moment. I apologize and I thank you for being kind. I will be OK soon and return.

[learner]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

I usually just lurk around this site and having spent some time now reading this thread I feel the need to a least post just this one time on WGBH's behalf. Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion, based upon my own experiences with "bigfoot-like" creatures in the woods.

John is pretty brave to be posting his experience on this site, for sure, and I am duly impressed at how well he is being treated here, for the most part.

However, I just have to say that I think it is ludicrous for John to accept any other explanation for his encounter except for what it is. He saw a bigfoot-like creature. I believe him.

I wrote a dissertation awhile back on the BFF, that I expounded on more in one of my blog writings, concerning the different personalities in the "bigfoot community". Part of it concerned the differences between "believers" and "knowers".

The difference between John and some others is that John is a "knower", not a "believer". You can "believe" all the evidence (whether it is scientific or not) that you want, but until you have your own sighting, you can never be a "knower". Whether he likes it or not, John is in the class of "Knowers".

Only those who "believe" in bigfoot will argue with a skeptic. Those that "know" these creatures exist won't waste their time. It is something like a Christian arguing with an Atheist about religion. It is a no-winner, for either side.




I am not a amateur psychiatrist, like some folks here, however I truly believe that those that claim to have had hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations must be truly weak minded to believe that malarkey and to believe that it applies to John's experience. (Don't take it personal, I am not slamming anybody in particular).

John may be weak willed, but he sure as hell is not weak minded. Anybody that has read his postings on the various forums/messages boards can attest to that.

You guys have been so busy sharpening Occam's Razor in this thread that it has become a dull blade. John has posted his encounter. He has never wavered from what he has originally stated concerning his encounter. I think he has done a pretty good job, considering he was 17 when it happened. I am sure there could be more learned from him, however, his PTSD over the incident probably has closed his mind off to some of the events and he can't recall everything.

One thing I would like to mention, that I hope John finds useful in his quest to unravel this mystery, is that based upon my own experiences with these creatures, I believe that John's encounter involved not one, but two creatures. These creatures hardly ever hunt singularly. They almost always tag-team. I am not sure what the purpose is when they are foraging for plant foodstuffs, unless one is supposed to stand watch while the other eats. When hunting live prey, one seems to always drive the prey into an ambush by the other.

I find it doubtful, that the one that John saw, put "the stink" on him. There is no indication in John's report that the creature passed by his deer stand, before he stepped out in front of him. Given that John was guesstimating that the creature was approximately 50 yds in front of him, I find it doubtful that any smell was being given off from the creature that John could have smelled. I believe that the "stink" that John smelled probably came from the other creature that was hiding in the brush closer to the deer stand.

(Oh, and speaking of the "stink" that John got a whiff of, just like a "creature sighting", there is no way a person can ever truly describe the "smell". It is like nothing you have ever smelled before and once you smell it, you will never forget it. It will make your eyes water and can very well make you "sick to your stomach".)

I don't believe these creatures are harmful to humans, however, it is not the one you see in the woods that you should be worried about, it is his partner hiding behind you in the brush that should give you cause for reflection. I can only imagine how much more John's reaction would be if he ascertained that another creature was closer to the deer stand during his encounter.

Of course, like I said earlier in this post, these are only my opinions, base upon my own experience with these creatures. I am not here to post about my experiences. Just to give John some "food for thought" concerning his own encounter.

The only other thing that I would tell John is that I wouldn't let a bad experience when I was 17 keep me from going out and having some fun in the woods.

I think you should buck up, go out into the woods, find the sucker and kick him in the ass!

So i am considered by you to be "truly weak minded" well that's a confident statement from someone that considers himself to be "not even an amateur psychiatrist"

[LONGTABBER PE]

Originally Posted by WGBH

Everyone who has been asking me to describe the smell, Pywacket just described it very well.

I am sorry, I need to take a break from answering these questions right now. No one has done anything wrong, my health is not good at the moment. I apologize and I thank you for being kind. I will be OK soon and return.

Take care of yourself dude

[LONGTABBER PE]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

I usually just lurk around this site and having spent some time now reading this thread I feel the need to a least post just this one time on WGBH's behalf. Please keep in mind that this is only my opinion, based upon my own experiences with "bigfoot-like" creatures in the woods.

John is pretty brave to be posting his experience on this site, for sure, and I am duly impressed at how well he is being treated here, for the most part.

However, I just have to say that I think it is ludicrous for John to accept any other explanation for his encounter except for what it is. He saw a bigfoot-like creature. I believe him.

I wrote a dissertation awhile back on the BFF, that I expounded on more in one of my blog writings, concerning the different personalities in the "bigfoot community". Part of it concerned the differences between "believers" and "knowers".

The difference between John and some others is that John is a "knower", not a "believer". You can "believe" all the evidence (whether it is scientific or not) that you want, but until you have your own sighting, you can never be a "knower". Whether he likes it or not, John is in the class of "Knowers".

Only those who "believe" in bigfoot will argue with a skeptic. Those that "know" these creatures exist won't waste their time. It is something like a Christian arguing with an Atheist about religion. It is a no-winner, for either side.




I am not a amateur psychiatrist, like some folks here, however I truly believe that those that claim to have had hypnagogic or hypnopompic hallucinations must be truly weak minded to believe that malarkey and to believe that it applies to John's experience. (Don't take it personal, I am not slamming anybody in particular).

John may be weak willed, but he sure as hell is not weak minded. Anybody that has read his postings on the various forums/messages boards can attest to that.

You guys have been so busy sharpening Occam's Razor in this thread that it has become a dull blade. John has posted his encounter. He has never wavered from what he has originally stated concerning his encounter. I think he has done a pretty good job, considering he was 17 when it happened. I am sure there could be more learned from him, however, his PTSD over the incident probably has closed his mind off to some of the events and he can't recall everything.

One thing I would like to mention, that I hope John finds useful in his quest to unravel this mystery, is that based upon my own experiences with these creatures, I believe that John's encounter involved not one, but two creatures. These creatures hardly ever hunt singularly. They almost always tag-team. I am not sure what the purpose is when they are foraging for plant foodstuffs, unless one is supposed to stand watch while the other eats. When hunting live prey, one seems to always drive the prey into an ambush by the other.

I find it doubtful, that the one that John saw, put "the stink" on him. There is no indication in John's report that the creature passed by his deer stand, before he stepped out in front of him. Given that John was guesstimating that the creature was approximately 50 yds in front of him, I find it doubtful that any smell was being given off from the creature that John could have smelled. I believe that the "stink" that John smelled probably came from the other creature that was hiding in the brush closer to the deer stand.

(Oh, and speaking of the "stink" that John got a whiff of, just like a "creature sighting", there is no way a person can ever truly describe the "smell". It is like nothing you have ever smelled before and once you smell it, you will never forget it. It will make your eyes water and can very well make you "sick to your stomach".)

I don't believe these creatures are harmful to humans, however, it is not the one you see in the woods that you should be worried about, it is his partner hiding behind you in the brush that should give you cause for reflection. I can only imagine how much more John's reaction would be if he ascertained that another creature was closer to the deer stand during his encounter.

Of course, like I said earlier in this post, these are only my opinions, base upon my own experience with these creatures. I am not here to post about my experiences. Just to give John some "food for thought" concerning his own encounter.

The only other thing that I would tell John is that I wouldn't let a bad experience when I was 17 keep me from going out and having some fun in the woods.

I think you should buck up, go out into the woods, find the sucker and kick him in the ass!

Welcome to the Octagon Py, just a few comments

>>>John is pretty brave to be posting his experience on this site, for sure, and I am duly impressed at how well he is being treated here, for the most part.

excepting some of the "drive by" posters, the normal BF posters are very understanding. The difference with John is his sincere and honest,forthright attitude and a willingness to listen and discuss.

He didnt come here "convincing" or "arguing" , "selling"or "promoting". He simply came here saying "Here is what happened- now lets discuss it"

I can relate to that having "not sure" encounters myself. ( not posting here to save typing but they are at the BFF in the not sure encounter thread for all to read)

The majority of reception here is directly related to your willingness to think, engage in discussion and honesty. ( Bobbie gets the welcome mat here too)

So to make a blanket statement that "believers" ( or knowers, if you will) walk in as targets to be chewed up isnt supported by the facts

>>>However, I just have to say that I think it is ludicrous for John to accept any other explanation for his encounter except for what it is. He saw a bigfoot-like creature. I believe him.

I respectfully disagree. While its true BF may well factually exist ( and in case there is any doubt- let me state upfront i am applying these same words to MY accounts so I'm talking about ME as well) the scientific odds are that it doesnt. ( that and a quarter is worth 20 cents but still true)

If BF doesnt exist, then regardless of what John, you, me or anyone else thinks they saw, it wasnt a BF.

If one day, a BF is finally acknowledged anywhere except in Ga ( LOL) then many people have every right to come here with a can of whitewash and a wagner power sprayer and the skeptics here will be man and woman enough to stand at parade rest and take it. Until then, the jury is still out.


Its not a personality thing- its reality. In any case of an extreme unlikely scenario- the only logical course of action is to continuiously examine every possibility.

>>>The difference between John and some others is that John is a "knower", not a "believer". You can "believe" all the evidence (whether it is scientific or not) that you want, but until you have your own sighting, you can never be a "knower". Whether he likes it or not, John is in the class of "Knowers".

I agree in principal but not in application. One cannot "know" in truth until all possibilities have been examined. Thats not prehaps "nice" but its the truth.

>>>John may be weak willed, but he sure as hell is not weak minded. Anybody that has read his postings on the various forums/messages boards can attest to that.

I havent seen indication of a weak "will" with John

Anyhoo- welcome

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

John's Bigfoot showed that these creatures will expose themselves and apparently not perceive of the danger that a human-constructed hunting stand could present to them. It did not study or determine the fact that the stand contained a lethal threat. It did not avoid the side of the stand with the mail-slot opening that brings death.

This is just silly. John's Bigfoot knew he was there. It sensed and felt his presence and intent. It wanted John to feel the shock and the awe and turned it up to eleven.

Bigfoot is the Boss of the Woods and has a deep and spiritual connection to all those in the its domain, visitors and denizens alike. Its intuition is perfection and they see you for what you really are. It will never allow itself get close to someone might actually pop a cap in Bigfoot's ass (it would just bounce off, anyway) and to those whom it deems worthy of perceiving its majestic and terrible visage who actually remember to think about blasting it... it simply turns around and gives them The Look...

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by WGBH

Everyone who has been asking me to describe the smell, Pywacket just described it very well.

I am sorry, I need to take a break from answering these questions right now. No one has done anything wrong, my health is not good at the moment. I apologize and I thank you for being kind. I will be OK soon and return.

Take your time and be well, John.

When you're in the swamp and your palms are sweating and you want to get away just remember...

Bigfoot's got nards.

[kitakaze]

Originally Posted by Blackdog

His posting style has settled down into something more recognizable as one person lately, but you have to admit there have been times he's bounced around from nearly illiterate to almost scholarly. Lately he seems more like a 12 year old.

Copypasta.

[JohnWS]

Originally Posted by Pywacket

The difference between John and some others is that John is a "knower", not a "believer". You can "believe" all the evidence (whether it is scientific or not) that you want, but until you have your own sighting, you can never be a "knower". Whether he likes it or not, John is in the class of "Knowers".

Addressing the argument here and not the arguer .

Once again I'm put in mind of the excellent video posted by Astrophotographer: Open Mindedness. The segment I'm thinking of starts a 1.23.

Seeing as bigfoot has never been proved to exist - as of now, I don't see bigfoot as a realistic explanation for anyone's unusual experience (if one is hit by a truck tomorrow that all changes). That is not to suggest people do not have unusual or inexplicable experiences, or that anyone who does is in some way deficient.

As it says in the video - 'I can't explain something, therefore I can explain it.' Insert weird unproven 'explanation' of choice here. All other possibilities are off & dismissed in favour of an unproven 'explanation'.

I think it's human nature to demand answers. In the case unusual experiences probably even more so. But unless you happen to have had a 'bigfoot moment' and actually have one stuck in the freezer or something, in all seriousness, you can't know. What I think you (blanket you) have is a strong conviction and have discounted and closed your mind to any and all other possibilities.

Edit to add: Which is undertandable. Even if you can't explain what happened, there will be some eager bigfoot proponents waiting to provide you with a tailor made 'explanation' (rightly on wrongly, deliberately or otherwise).

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by kitakaze

Cool! Why? Will you go to the area where you had your sighting?

Are you apprehensive about it?

BTW, isn't it nice discover skeptics are human, too, and this place isn't full of hatred?

Not hatred,bemused bafflement in my case.If people want to waste their time searching for a non-existent creature,that's up to them.At least they get some fresh air,and it keeps them off the streets.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by WGBH

That is a loaded question KK. The only "high quality" evidence that would suggest Bigfoot exists would be a type specimen. Alive or Dead. (I am no kill of course)

Now a clear, quality video or picture of a Squatch could possibly be enough to get the proper authorities involved in the research. This would be nice.

BTW, I will be around, but I do not think it is in my best interest to talk about my sighting anymore. People are starting to get wound up about it (pro and con). I would just like to be able to participate and contribute to this forum on the Bigfoot threads, not cause problems or arguments. I am here for my education and hopefully to get new research ideas. I am not here to fight.

I am not calling you a liar,I am not being hostile towards you,I believe that you believe that you saw a Bigfoot,but without evidence it's just another Bigfoot story.I am sorry if I offended you.

[Vortigern99]

Originally Posted by JohnWS

Once again I'm put in mind of the excellent video posted by Astrophotographer: Open Mindedness. The segment I'm thinking of starts a 1.23.

...

As it says in the video - 'I can't explain something, therefore I can explain it.' Insert weird unproven 'explanation' of choice here. All other possibilities are off & dismissed in favour of an unproven 'explanation'.

What an excellent video! I congratulate the maker(s) on collating complex information -- and for some, challenging ideas -- into such an easily absorb-able series of animated vignettes. I also highly approve of the use of Jack Kirby artwork from the 1960s to achieve this effect.

[WGBH]

Originally Posted by LONGTABBER PE

Welcome to the Octagon Py, just a few comments

>>>John is pretty brave to be posting his experience on this site, for sure, and I am duly impressed at how well he is being treated here, for the most part.

excepting some of the "drive by" posters, the normal BF posters are very understanding. The difference with John is his sincere and honest,forthright attitude and a willingness to listen and discuss.

He didnt come here "convincing" or "arguing" , "selling"or "promoting". He simply came here saying "Here is what happened- now lets discuss it"

I can relate to that having "not sure" encounters myself. ( not posting here to save typing but they are at the BFF in the not sure encounter thread for all to read)

The majority of reception here is directly related to your willingness to think, engage in discussion and honesty. ( Bobbie gets the welcome mat here too)

So to make a blanket statement that "believers" ( or knowers, if you will) walk in as targets to be chewed up isnt supported by the facts

>>>However, I just have to say that I think it is ludicrous for John to accept any other explanation for his encounter except for what it is. He saw a bigfoot-like creature. I believe him.

I respectfully disagree. While its true BF may well factually exist ( and in case there is any doubt- let me state upfront i am applying these same words to MY accounts so I'm talking about ME as well) the scientific odds are that it doesnt. ( that and a quarter is worth 20 cents but still true)

If BF doesnt exist, then regardless of what John, you, me or anyone else thinks they saw, it wasnt a BF.

If one day, a BF is finally acknowledged anywhere except in Ga ( LOL) then many people have every right to come here with a can of whitewash and a wagner power sprayer and the skeptics here will be man and woman enough to stand at parade rest and take it. Until then, the jury is still out.


Its not a personality thing- its reality. In any case of an extreme unlikely scenario- the only logical course of action is to continuiously examine every possibility.

I am at work and I am still not feeling well but I have this to say.

I have never wanted anything from any of these forums except to be able to talk about my experience. I went to the BFF hoping for help or just someone to chat with about it. Instead, I was stoned at the gate. Even by some "well known and respected researchers". I could have handled the attacks better, I will admit this. But it was very upsetting. I was thinking I had finally found the people I needed to talk to and the place to do so.

Another observation of mine is THERE ARE NO BIGFOOT EXPERTS. How can you be an expert in something you cannot even find? I go to these conferences and watch the presentations and I sometimes just want to stand up and shout that out. Most of the so-called experts have never even witnessed the animal. My point to this is, I seem to be looking for help that is not there and I am extremely frustrated already.

So, here I am. I do not care who helps me or gives me good ideas.Bigfoot believers OR skeptics. I just want answers period.

I get attacked from both sides anyway...