Rant: Microsoft pricing of Vista Upgrades!!!

Darat · 1st January 2007, 04:37 AM

VISTA HOME PREMIUM: USA : $154.99
VISTA HOME PREMIUM: UK : £149.99

Sterling to Dollar rate (1/1/07): 1:1.96

UK version in Dollars: $239 - almost a $100 more!

CFLarsen · 1st January 2007, 04:55 AM

Stop whining....

Quote:

Windows Vista Home Basic: 1.099 kroner.
Windows Vista Home Premium: 1.849 kroner.
Windows Vista Business: 2.299 kroner.
Windows Vista Ultimate: 2.999 kroner.
Source

$1 = 5,66 DKR
£1 = 11,10 DKR

Windows Vista Home Basic: $194 / £99
Windows Vista Home Premium: $327 / £167
Windows Vista Business: $406 / £207
Windows Vista Ultimate: $530 / £270

ETA: Sure, there's a 25% VAT, but that nowhere covers the extra price.

Other countries?

The Central Scrutinizer · 1st January 2007, 07:10 AM

That's because Microsoft priced in the extra support calls they will receive from stupid Europeans.

TragicMonkey · 1st January 2007, 11:15 AM

It's revenge for all those EU antitrust rulings.

a_unique_person · 1st January 2007, 11:45 AM

http://apcmag.com/4035/751_for_windo...icing_revealed

Quote:

Windows Vista Home Basic - AUD$385
Windows Vista Home Premium - AUD$455
Windows Vista Business - AUD$565
Windows Vista Ultimate - AUD$751 (ouch)

As a comparison, boxed copies of Windows XP retail around the following prices (these prices were sourced from Harris Tech):

Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 - AUD$299
Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 Upgrade - AUD$159
Windows XP Professional w/SP2 - AUD$445
Windows XP Professional w/SP2 Upgrade - AUD$319

Why does Microsoft hate us? Australia supposedly has a free trade agreement with the USA.

fuelair · 1st January 2007, 11:57 AM

That makes sense. Any large enough company should use that technique
to explain why it should be left alone. (That is logic, not niceness. Since the only purpose of any company is to maximise the profit of its' owners, any government act against this must be punished if feasible and doable. So far, this one works.)

Do not assume that I agree with this, by the by - I am merely noting it is very logical.

(This refers to Tragic Monkeys' comment above)

a_unique_person · 1st January 2007, 12:00 PM

Australia has not done any anti MS court cases like the EU, and we have the FTA.

IIRichard · 1st January 2007, 12:51 PM

US Linux + Open Office and cool games = $0.00
UK ditto = 0.00
Germany ditto = 0.00
etc.

Darat · 1st January 2007, 12:57 PM

Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista?

Monika · 1st January 2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

$1 = 5,66 DKR
£1 = 11,10 DKR

Windows Vista Home Basic: $194 / £99
Windows Vista Home Premium: $327 / £167
Windows Vista Business: $406 / £207
Windows Vista Ultimate: $530 / £270

Other countries?

Germany in €

Windows Vista Home Basic: €229 / $302 / £154
Windows Vista Home Premium: € 299 / $394 / £201
Windows Vista Business: €369 / $487 / £248
Windows Vista Ultimate: €499 / $658 / £336

Even if I take in account that they have translate it into german... <mutter> <mumble>

Good thing there are SystemBuilder Editions, they are a lot cheaper, i.e. Ultimate just €199. You only have to make a choice between getting the 32 or 64 bit version. With the full product you get both. And you don't get support from Microsoft directly. (Who cares....) They'll become available by the end of January.

Monika

tkingdoll · 1st January 2007, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista?

I think he's making one of those 'sheeple' statements that some people who don't care about compatibility sometimes try to make. It's quite sweet, really, the inability to see the bigger picture.

Vitnir · 1st January 2007, 04:13 PM

Are you self-employed software developers that HAVE to upgrade?
I will wait until my games won't run on windows 2000 (I'm not so sure DirectX 10 is reason enough to upgrade), someone on the forum claimed Vista is the first windows upgrade that doesnt make the computer run half as fast as it did before but I think that requires extraordinary proof.

Ian Osborne · 1st January 2007, 05:02 PM

An Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate their OS...

Soapy Sam · 1st January 2007, 07:50 PM

At this price differential, it would be profitable to fly business class to New York from London, buy 100 copies at retail prices, fly home , pay import taxes and then resell the discs on the street at a significant discount.
As second hand items, you would presumably need no VAT registration.

Even if you did, you could still make enough in one trip to buy a new laptop.

Is there any technical restriction preventing this?

kittykatkarma · 1st January 2007, 08:38 PM

With Windows XP Professional, Microsoft will prevent you from downloading updates if you're running a counterfeit copy. What they call their Windows Genuine Advantage Kit, runs for about $149.00 US Dollars. You either have to register your current copy or but the kit.

That being said, there are probably was of getting around this. But of course, I wouldn't know any of them.

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

And Microsoft wonders why so many people pirate their OS...

DiskoVilante · 1st January 2007, 10:43 PM

Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best.
Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD.

CFLarsen · 2nd January 2007, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by DiskoVilante

Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best.

Spoken like a true believer.

Not a word about why. Just "GO" with it. Don't ask questions. Just "GO".

Originally Posted by DiskoVilante

Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD.

....which you run on a computer that is more expensive than any Windows upgrade will cost...

Come on, people: This is about comparing Vista prices in various countries. If your country isn't listed, find the data and list it.

Stimpson J. Cat · 2nd January 2007, 03:11 AM

Quote:

And Microsoft wonders why so many people pirate their OS...

No they don't. They know exactly why people pirate it. It is all factored into their marketing and pricing strategy.

Darat · 2nd January 2007, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

An Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate their OS...

I think they know why. They produce a product lots of people want and many people don't mind stealing to get what they want.

Darat · 2nd January 2007, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by DiskoVilante

Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best.
Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD.

Strange I can't find a version of OS X that will work on my PC.

Darat · 2nd January 2007, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

...snip...

Is there any technical restriction preventing this?

No - but there is probably something in their licensing agreement that is meant to make this illegal. (ETA) Or rather meant to make you think it is illegal.

geoman · 2nd January 2007, 04:54 AM

As someone whose Windows systems are all at work, and hence has no hope of seeing Vista until 2010, WTF is "Vista Ultimate"? Ultimate in what sense? Will I never have to get a fix or upgrade for it?

a_unique_person · 2nd January 2007, 04:56 AM

It downloads porn faster.

Darat · 2nd January 2007, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by geoman

As someone whose Windows systems are all at work, and hence has no hope of seeing Vista until 2010, WTF is "Vista Ultimate"? Ultimate in what sense? Will I never have to get a fix or upgrade for it?

Ultimate in the sense of "our marketing department thinks this name will help sell the bells and whistles we took out of the other versions"

IIRichard · 2nd January 2007, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista?

Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option.

Darat · 2nd January 2007, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by IIRichard

Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option.

And then you still need a copy of Windows to run it.

This Guy · 2nd January 2007, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by IIRichard

Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option.

If true Direct X compatibility can ever be achieved in Linux, watch out M$

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 2nd January 2007, 01:25 PM

Microsoft may very well be in trouble with a pricing structure like this.. Couple that with its sometimes draconian Licensing and 'Genuine Advantage' programs to prevent piracy, and I think many people will be looking for alternatives.

Considering we now have programs like Open Office, Google Docs & Google Spreadsheet for free, the only major sticking point seems to be games.. And with the current popularity of console games, and recent decline of PC games, we might see a very interesting couple of years coming up!

joobz · 2nd January 2007, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine

Microsoft may very well be in trouble with a pricing structure like this.. Couple that with its sometimes draconian Licensing and 'Genuine Advantage' programs to prevent piracy, and I think many people will be looking for alternatives.

Considering we now have programs like Open Office, Google Docs & Google Spreadsheet for free, the only major sticking point seems to be games.. And with the current popularity of console games, and recent decline of PC games, we might see a very interesting couple of years coming up!

Games aren't the only sticking point. You still have a lot of specialty software that is windows based; ChemDraw, Sigmaplot, Sigmastat, Minitab... All of the software developed by instrument companies to run their stuff, HPLCs, GPCs, DLS, DSC... You get the idea.

Nope I have no problem with my MS masters. They've made my life easier.

Crazycowbob · 2nd January 2007, 01:51 PM

It's not really any cheaper, but at least you can feel like you're sticking it to MS, and getting something out of it too!

Take a college class (at a college that has a store that sells windows!)
Buy windows at student price
Leave with windows, and some continued education

Dark Jaguar · 2nd January 2007, 02:19 PM

As of yet I see no reason to get Vista at all. What does it do for me? I have XP and as of yet it runs everything I need it to.

Mac OS is nice, but you need a Mac, so unless you are needing to upgrade your computer, that's not really a feasible option.

Linux is something I've played around with, but with it not supporting all the software I use in Windows (games mostly), that's not really a feasible alternative yet either.

PC games aren't dying any time soon.

Pirating is stealing, and of course I don't condone such things. Every argument I've heard in it's favor is basically "I want it but I don't want to pay for it". That said, those who compare it to literally walking into a store and taking a candy bar are way off the mark. The thing that more accurately compares with is walking in and taking a copy of Windows Vista off the shelf. That's stealing in every sense, because you are literally TAKING something that belongs to someone else. Pirating is making a copy of something that belongs to someone else, but they still have the original, it was never actually taken AWAY from them. A more apt analogy would be walking into a store and copying a candy bar and then leaving with the copy. Still wrong, but not in the same league.

DiskoVilante · 2nd January 2007, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Jaguar

Pirating is stealing, and of course I don't condone such things. Every argument I've heard in it's favor is basically "I want it but I don't want to pay for it". That said, those who compare it to literally walking into a store and taking a candy bar are way off the mark. The thing that more accurately compares with is walking in and taking a copy of Windows Vista off the shelf. That's stealing in every sense, because you are literally TAKING something that belongs to someone else. Pirating is making a copy of something that belongs to someone else, but they still have the original, it was never actually taken AWAY from them. A more apt analogy would be walking into a store and copying a candy bar and then leaving with the copy. Still wrong, but not in the same league.

Pirating is stealing in the sense that it deprives the owner of the software the chance to make money from your buying a legal copy.

Soapy Sam · 2nd January 2007, 03:44 PM

The point of the OP is not that high pricing justifies theft, but that there are price differentials from country to country that cannot be justified.

Average earnings in the UK are lower than the USA, not higher. But prices of many things are higher. Clearly , M$ think they can simply swap the dollar sign for a pound sign and people will ante up.

I won't , for one- because I've yet to see or hear anything vista will do for me that XP will not. I only ended up with XP because I bought a new laptop and it came preinstalled, or I would still use 98SE.

I'll be in the USA in January of course and might be tempted to buy it there, though I doubt it. I prefer to let others debug new Windows releases. If I go to TAM 6, maybe.

I wonder, if computers did not come , as a rule, with Windows installed, how many people would try alternative operating systems?

Rob Lister · 2nd January 2007, 03:50 PM

They are pricing for separate markets (separate countries) IAW their economic forecast of "the best return on the dollar" just like every other international company...whatever each market will bare. Other considerations are also in effect such as modifications because of security-related trade restrictions, import tariffs (if any), liability differences for regional sells (it differs), and probably channel distribution contracts as well (google it if you don't know what it is). Many factors come into play but where each projected regional S&D curve crosses is generally the most important.

ETA: I've test driven a copy of Vista and it is very nice. I'm not sure it's worth the upgrade but I'd buy it with company money for sure. It's a bit cleaner with better organization features and some very cool bells/whistles. I suppose underneath it is improved as well but I'm not geek enough to know the diff -- the IT team seems to really like it if that says anything. They want a immediate upgrade rather than a trickle in.

geni · 2nd January 2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

VISTA HOME PREMIUM: USA : $154.99
VISTA HOME PREMIUM: UK : £149.99

Sterling to Dollar rate (1/1/07): 1:1.96

UK version in Dollars: $239 - almost a $100 more!

I doubt that that excange rate is stable long term.

davefoc · 2nd January 2007, 08:07 PM

I suspect that Vista will allow you to save data to DVD's without any add on software.

I'm not going to update for that though. And at $154 I probably won't upgrade at all, for that price I'll probably just buy a new computer in a few years that has it on it.

I think I might convert to Linux some day. Especially with high upgrade prices like that.

a_unique_person · 3rd January 2007, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Crazycowbob

It's not really any cheaper, but at least you can feel like you're sticking it to MS, and getting something out of it too!

Take a college class (at a college that has a store that sells windows!)
Buy windows at student price
Leave with windows, and some continued education

The local Officeworks shops all advertise Windows at it's educational price, as if it's a special. All you need is someone in your family who's a student, somewhere. It's just plain stupid.

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 3rd January 2007, 09:16 AM

Canadian Prices:

Full Versions
Vista Ultimate $499
XP Pro $429
Vista Business $379
Vista Home Premium $299
Vista Home Basic $259
XP Home $259

Upgrade Prices
Vista Ultimate $299
XP Pro $259
Vista Business $249
Vista Home Premium $199
Vista Home Basic $129
XP Home $129

As a developer, I have an MSDN Professional subscription which costs me about $900 a year. For that price I get
Visual Studio 2005
Every version of Vista
Every version of XP
Windows 2003 Server
Windows 2000
Any new version of Windows OS that comes out... It's almost making sense for home users to become MSDN subscribers to save money; and that says a lot about their pricing structure!

Dark Jaguar · 3rd January 2007, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by DiskoVilante

Pirating is stealing in the sense that it deprives the owner of the software the chance to make money from your buying a legal copy.

Yes, I agree with this. However it is clearly not the same thing as walking into a store and literally taking it off the shelf, because then you also deprive them of the thing itself, the typical definition of "steal".

joobz · 3rd January 2007, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Jaguar

Yes, I agree with this. However it is clearly not the same thing as walking into a store and literally taking it off the shelf, because then you also deprive them of the thing itself, the typical definition of "steal".

You are drawing a distinction that is meaningless. Using your reasoning, forcibly taking cash out of someone's wallet is more of a theft than someone electronically transfering money out of thier bank account. There is no actual cash being taken, just the electronic equivilent of it.

1st January 2007, 04:55 AM	#2
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Stop whining.... Quote: Windows Vista Home Basic: 1.099 kroner. Windows Vista Home Premium: 1.849 kroner. Windows Vista Business: 2.299 kroner. Windows Vista Ultimate: 2.999 kroner. Source $1 = 5,66 DKR £1 = 11,10 DKR Windows Vista Home Basic: $194 / £99 Windows Vista Home Premium: $327 / £167 Windows Vista Business: $406 / £207 Windows Vista Ultimate: $530 / £270 ETA: Sure, there's a 25% VAT, but that nowhere covers the extra price. Other countries?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

1st January 2007, 07:10 AM	#3
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,278	That's because Microsoft priced in the extra support calls they will receive from stupid Europeans.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

1st January 2007, 11:15 AM	#4
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,114	It's revenge for all those EU antitrust rulings.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

1st January 2007, 11:45 AM	#5
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,343	http://apcmag.com/4035/751_for_windo...icing_revealed Quote: Windows Vista Home Basic - AUD$385 Windows Vista Home Premium - AUD$455 Windows Vista Business - AUD$565 Windows Vista Ultimate - AUD$751 (ouch) As a comparison, boxed copies of Windows XP retail around the following prices (these prices were sourced from Harris Tech): Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 - AUD$299 Windows XP Home Edition w/SP2 Upgrade - AUD$159 Windows XP Professional w/SP2 - AUD$445 Windows XP Professional w/SP2 Upgrade - AUD$319 Why does Microsoft hate us? Australia supposedly has a free trade agreement with the USA.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

1st January 2007, 11:57 AM	#6
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	That makes sense. Any large enough company should use that technique to explain why it should be left alone. (That is logic, not niceness. Since the only purpose of any company is to maximise the profit of its' owners, any government act against this must be punished if feasible and doable. So far, this one works.) Do not assume that I agree with this, by the by - I am merely noting it is very logical. (This refers to Tragic Monkeys' comment above)
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Last edited by fuelair; 1st January 2007 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Refers to TM comment

1st January 2007, 12:00 PM	#7
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,343	Australia has not done any anti MS court cases like the EU, and we have the FTA.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

1st January 2007, 12:51 PM	#8
IIRichard Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CT/NJ Posts: 290	US Linux + Open Office and cool games = $0.00 UK ditto = 0.00 Germany ditto = 0.00 etc.
	__________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

1st January 2007, 12:57 PM	#9
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

1st January 2007, 01:15 PM	#10
Monika New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 5	Originally Posted by CFLarsen $1 = 5,66 DKR £1 = 11,10 DKR Windows Vista Home Basic: $194 / £99 Windows Vista Home Premium: $327 / £167 Windows Vista Business: $406 / £207 Windows Vista Ultimate: $530 / £270 Other countries? Germany in € Windows Vista Home Basic: €229 / $302 / £154 Windows Vista Home Premium: € 299 / $394 / £201 Windows Vista Business: €369 / $487 / £248 Windows Vista Ultimate: €499 / $658 / £336 Even if I take in account that they have translate it into german... <mutter> <mumble> Good thing there are SystemBuilder Editions, they are a lot cheaper, i.e. Ultimate just €199. You only have to make a choice between getting the 32 or 64 bit version. With the full product you get both. And you don't get support from Microsoft directly. (Who cares....) They'll become available by the end of January. Monika

1st January 2007, 01:37 PM	#11
tkingdoll AKA TEEK Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Up Myself Posts: 12,471	Originally Posted by Darat Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista? I think he's making one of those 'sheeple' statements that some people who don't care about compatibility sometimes try to make. It's quite sweet, really, the inability to see the bigger picture.
	__________________ www.stormmovie.net Official website of Tim Minchin's Storm Movie

1st January 2007, 04:13 PM	#12
Vitnir Muse Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 669	Are you self-employed software developers that HAVE to upgrade? I will wait until my games won't run on windows 2000 (I'm not so sure DirectX 10 is reason enough to upgrade), someone on the forum claimed Vista is the first windows upgrade that doesnt make the computer run half as fast as it did before but I think that requires extraordinary proof.
	__________________ There is no spoon.

1st January 2007, 05:02 PM	#13
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,383	An Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate their OS...
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

1st January 2007, 07:50 PM	#14
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	At this price differential, it would be profitable to fly business class to New York from London, buy 100 copies at retail prices, fly home , pay import taxes and then resell the discs on the street at a significant discount. As second hand items, you would presumably need no VAT registration. Even if you did, you could still make enough in one trip to buy a new laptop. Is there any technical restriction preventing this?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

1st January 2007, 08:38 PM	#15
kittykatkarma Mew and improved Join Date: May 2006 Location: Slot 3.8 (3rd chassis from the bottom, right most slot) Posts: 503	With Windows XP Professional, Microsoft will prevent you from downloading updates if you're running a counterfeit copy. What they call their Windows Genuine Advantage Kit, runs for about $149.00 US Dollars. You either have to register your current copy or but the kit. That being said, there are probably was of getting around this. But of course, I wouldn't know any of them. Originally Posted by Ian Osborne And Microsoft wonders why so many people pirate their OS...
	__________________ Best regards, kittykatkarma

1st January 2007, 10:43 PM	#16
DiskoVilante Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 776	Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best. Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD.

2nd January 2007, 12:19 AM	#17
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by DiskoVilante Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best. Spoken like a true believer. Not a word about why. Just "GO" with it. Don't ask questions. Just "GO". Originally Posted by DiskoVilante Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD. ....which you run on a computer that is more expensive than any Windows upgrade will cost... Come on, people: This is about comparing Vista prices in various countries. If your country isn't listed, find the data and list it.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

2nd January 2007, 03:11 AM	#18
Stimpson J. Cat Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 1,833	Quote: And Microsoft wonders why so many people pirate their OS... No they don't. They know exactly why people pirate it. It is all factored into their marketing and pricing strategy.
	__________________ A poke in the eye makes Baby Jesus cry.

2nd January 2007, 03:38 AM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne An Microsoft wonder why so many people pirate their OS... I think they know why. They produce a product lots of people want and many people don't mind stealing to get what they want.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd January 2007, 03:40 AM	#20
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by DiskoVilante Go with Linux. Ubuntu Linux is currently the best. Or go with Apple. Mac OS X is $40 USD. Strange I can't find a version of OS X that will work on my PC.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd January 2007, 03:42 AM	#21
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam ...snip... Is there any technical restriction preventing this? No - but there is probably something in their licensing agreement that is meant to make this illegal. (ETA) Or rather meant to make you think it is illegal.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd January 2007, 04:54 AM	#22
geoman Doctor of Rock Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: X marks the spot Posts: 251	As someone whose Windows systems are all at work, and hence has no hope of seeing Vista until 2010, WTF is "Vista Ultimate"? Ultimate in what sense? Will I never have to get a fix or upgrade for it?

2nd January 2007, 04:56 AM	#23
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,343	It downloads porn faster.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

2nd January 2007, 05:07 AM	#24
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by geoman As someone whose Windows systems are all at work, and hence has no hope of seeing Vista until 2010, WTF is "Vista Ultimate"? Ultimate in what sense? Will I never have to get a fix or upgrade for it? Ultimate in the sense of "our marketing department thinks this name will help sell the bells and whistles we took out of the other versions"
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd January 2007, 05:56 AM	#25
IIRichard Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CT/NJ Posts: 290	Originally Posted by Darat Er you do know Linux is not a version of Vista? Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option.
	__________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

2nd January 2007, 06:03 AM	#26
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,804	Originally Posted by IIRichard Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option. And then you still need a copy of Windows to run it.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

2nd January 2007, 06:22 AM	#27
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	Originally Posted by IIRichard Yes, of course. The point was merely that there is an alternative to Microsoft products. If theres a Windows app that you must have, most distros of Linux allow a dual boot option. If true Direct X compatibility can ever be achieved in Linux, watch out M$
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

2nd January 2007, 01:25 PM	#28
Ripley Twenty-Nine Muse Join Date: May 2005 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 867	Microsoft may very well be in trouble with a pricing structure like this.. Couple that with its sometimes draconian Licensing and 'Genuine Advantage' programs to prevent piracy, and I think many people will be looking for alternatives. Considering we now have programs like Open Office, Google Docs & Google Spreadsheet for free, the only major sticking point seems to be games.. And with the current popularity of console games, and recent decline of PC games, we might see a very interesting couple of years coming up!
	__________________ Ripley 29 "Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?" "Yes I would, Kent."

2nd January 2007, 01:41 PM	#29
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,505	Originally Posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine Microsoft may very well be in trouble with a pricing structure like this.. Couple that with its sometimes draconian Licensing and 'Genuine Advantage' programs to prevent piracy, and I think many people will be looking for alternatives. Considering we now have programs like Open Office, Google Docs & Google Spreadsheet for free, the only major sticking point seems to be games.. And with the current popularity of console games, and recent decline of PC games, we might see a very interesting couple of years coming up! Games aren't the only sticking point. You still have a lot of specialty software that is windows based; ChemDraw, Sigmaplot, Sigmastat, Minitab... All of the software developed by instrument companies to run their stuff, HPLCs, GPCs, DLS, DSC... You get the idea. Nope I have no problem with my MS masters. They've made my life easier.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

2nd January 2007, 01:51 PM	#30
Crazycowbob Bovine Overlord Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 1,369	It's not really any cheaper, but at least you can feel like you're sticking it to MS, and getting something out of it too! Take a college class (at a college that has a store that sells windows!) Buy windows at student price Leave with windows, and some continued education
	__________________ "Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth." Eric Idle, The Meaning of Life

2nd January 2007, 02:19 PM	#31
Dark Jaguar Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,666	As of yet I see no reason to get Vista at all. What does it do for me? I have XP and as of yet it runs everything I need it to. Mac OS is nice, but you need a Mac, so unless you are needing to upgrade your computer, that's not really a feasible option. Linux is something I've played around with, but with it not supporting all the software I use in Windows (games mostly), that's not really a feasible alternative yet either. PC games aren't dying any time soon. Pirating is stealing, and of course I don't condone such things. Every argument I've heard in it's favor is basically "I want it but I don't want to pay for it". That said, those who compare it to literally walking into a store and taking a candy bar are way off the mark. The thing that more accurately compares with is walking in and taking a copy of Windows Vista off the shelf. That's stealing in every sense, because you are literally TAKING something that belongs to someone else. Pirating is making a copy of something that belongs to someone else, but they still have the original, it was never actually taken AWAY from them. A more apt analogy would be walking into a store and copying a candy bar and then leaving with the copy. Still wrong, but not in the same league.

2nd January 2007, 03:05 PM	#32
DiskoVilante Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 776	Originally Posted by Dark Jaguar Pirating is stealing, and of course I don't condone such things. Every argument I've heard in it's favor is basically "I want it but I don't want to pay for it". That said, those who compare it to literally walking into a store and taking a candy bar are way off the mark. The thing that more accurately compares with is walking in and taking a copy of Windows Vista off the shelf. That's stealing in every sense, because you are literally TAKING something that belongs to someone else. Pirating is making a copy of something that belongs to someone else, but they still have the original, it was never actually taken AWAY from them. A more apt analogy would be walking into a store and copying a candy bar and then leaving with the copy. Still wrong, but not in the same league. Pirating is stealing in the sense that it deprives the owner of the software the chance to make money from your buying a legal copy.

2nd January 2007, 03:44 PM	#33
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	The point of the OP is not that high pricing justifies theft, but that there are price differentials from country to country that cannot be justified. Average earnings in the UK are lower than the USA, not higher. But prices of many things are higher. Clearly , M$ think they can simply swap the dollar sign for a pound sign and people will ante up. I won't , for one- because I've yet to see or hear anything vista will do for me that XP will not. I only ended up with XP because I bought a new laptop and it came preinstalled, or I would still use 98SE. I'll be in the USA in January of course and might be tempted to buy it there, though I doubt it. I prefer to let others debug new Windows releases. If I go to TAM 6, maybe. I wonder, if computers did not come , as a rule, with Windows installed, how many people would try alternative operating systems?
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

2nd January 2007, 03:50 PM	#34
Rob Lister Suspended Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 8,523	They are pricing for separate markets (separate countries) IAW their economic forecast of "the best return on the dollar" just like every other international company...whatever each market will bare. Other considerations are also in effect such as modifications because of security-related trade restrictions, import tariffs (if any), liability differences for regional sells (it differs), and probably channel distribution contracts as well (google it if you don't know what it is). Many factors come into play but where each projected regional S&D curve crosses is generally the most important. ETA: I've test driven a copy of Vista and it is very nice. I'm not sure it's worth the upgrade but I'd buy it with company money for sure. It's a bit cleaner with better organization features and some very cool bells/whistles. I suppose underneath it is improved as well but I'm not geek enough to know the diff -- the IT team seems to really like it if that says anything. They want a immediate upgrade rather than a trickle in.
	Last edited by Rob Lister; 2nd January 2007 at 04:00 PM.

2nd January 2007, 06:47 PM	#35
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,579	Originally Posted by Darat VISTA HOME PREMIUM: USA : $154.99 VISTA HOME PREMIUM: UK : £149.99 Sterling to Dollar rate (1/1/07): 1:1.96 UK version in Dollars: $239 - almost a $100 more! I doubt that that excange rate is stable long term.

2nd January 2007, 08:07 PM	#36
davefoc Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: orange country, california Posts: 7,266	I suspect that Vista will allow you to save data to DVD's without any add on software. I'm not going to update for that though. And at $154 I probably won't upgrade at all, for that price I'll probably just buy a new computer in a few years that has it on it. I think I might convert to Linux some day. Especially with high upgrade prices like that.