Mind-reading trick

[Humanists Harbor]

Hi folks. Spent the last week in Vegas, where I caught Penn and Teller's show (which completely rocked). They did a trick that involved determining which joke audience members would select out of a joke book. Several joke books were passed around the audience and whoever wound up with one of the books was told to flip through and find a joke that they identifed with somehow. While remaining on stage, Penn was able to determine the joke that they had selected. The final audience member read her joke on stage, and it was revealed that the punchline to the joke had been inside of an envelope that had been on stage since before the show started.

I'm a pretty big magic geek but I have no coordination or dexterity whatsoever. I fumble even the simplest sleight of hand tricks no matter how much I practice. I have no idea what method is used for this trick but it seems like it would involve something other than sleight of hand, so maybe even a lost cause like me could master it. I've seen other magicians perform a variation of this same trick so I assume the secret is out there somewhere. Can anyone recommend a book or DVD that I could purchase that would help me learn this?

Gracias,
HH

[Reno]

I was in Vegas in late November last year and of course went to P&T. I have pics of me on the stage queuing up to sign the envelope. Did Teller do the cutting the rose trick when you were there? That trick is mind-blowing.

My only regret of the evening is that I was tired after the show and felt a chill in the air so I couldn't queue up to have my photo taken with P or T who had sprinted out to the front to be in the foyer to meet the fans.

Those guys rock!

Did you notice the double bass player who accompanied the dry and witty pianist before the curtain opened? /wink

[Humanists Harbor]

As a matter of fact, I recognized Penn playing the bass when I was onstage signing the envelope. I remembered that he had written in his Road Penn articles about taking up the bass. Teller did do the rose trick and it was cool and beautiful and baffling. I was REALLY impressed when Penn juggled the broken liquor bottles! Did he gash his hand and spend five minutes fumbling with Band-Aids while you were there?

I'm happy to say that I was able to speak to both of them after the show. I thanked Penn for everything he'd done in the name of skepticism and rational thought and I was pleased as punch when he shook my hand. I'm going to try to attach the photos here but I'm not very computer literate so it might not work.

The only downside to the whole trip is that I'm back in NYC now and totally jet lagged. I hope my internal clock is back in working order before work on Monday.

Cheers,
HH

Originally Posted by Reno

I was in Vegas in late November last year and of course went to P&T. I have pics of me on the stage queuing up to sign the envelope. Did Teller do the cutting the rose trick when you were there? That trick is mind-blowing.

My only regret of the evening is that I was tired after the show and felt a chill in the air so I couldn't queue up to have my photo taken with P or T who had sprinted out to the front to be in the foyer to meet the fans.

Those guys rock!

Did you notice the double bass player who accompanied the dry and witty pianist before the curtain opened? /wink

[Reno]

Penn did appear to cut his hand when I was there and that made the juggling more impressive as surely the jagged, and different-sized bottles would be slippery with the blood.

You were jetlagged flying from Vegas to NYC? Try flying from Vegas to Newark then walking around Newark airport for 8 hours then flying to Scotland!

[firecoins]

Originally Posted by Reno

Penn did appear to cut his hand when I was there and that made the juggling more impressive as surely the jagged, and different-sized bottles would be slippery with the blood.

You were jetlagged flying from Vegas to NYC? Try flying from Vegas to Newark then walking around Newark airport for 8 hours then flying to Scotland!

Newark is a black hole. Been 3x this last week for picking up people. I feel jet lagged and I live 45 minutes away. I wasn't even on a plane

[Garrette]

Humanists, I don't know this exact variation but it really just sounds like a Book Test. There are dozens out there, some requiring a fair investment, others not.

Go to a magic shop or online magic store and ask about book tests.

Also, from your description, it sounds like the answer was hedged.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Humanists Harbor

I have no idea what method is used for this trick but it seems like it would involve something other than sleight of hand, so maybe even a lost cause like me could master it. I've seen other magicians perform a variation of this same trick so I assume the secret is out there somewhere. Can anyone recommend a book or DVD that I could purchase that would help me learn this?

Penn & Teller actually revealed how they do this trick in one of their TV specials.

There are a limited number of possible answers. There is a different gimmick to match every possible answer.

In the television special is was a card trick done on a beach. They would hijack random people to pick a card, and then demonstrate their “psychic ability” by showing that card was somehow anticipated. If the mark picked the 8 of spades, Teller might open a beach umbrella and a giant 8 of spades would be hanging there. If the mark picked the three of diamonds, Teller might pull up his shirt to reveal a 3 of diamonds painted on his chest.

The thing is all 52 cards were represented on that beach somewhere. The trick wasn’t that whatever card the mark picked was anticipated, but that Penn & Teller were able to remember the locations of all those cards on that beach.

For a stage show it could be easier. It would be simple, for example, for Pen & Teller to have a half dozen joke books printed that only had a dozen or so jokes in them, printed over and over again to fill out the book. Thus narrowing the audience members choices, then it’s just a matter of remembering if he picks joke A, it’s the envelope in Penn’s left jacket pocket, if he picks joke B, then it’s Teller’s right jacket pocket, if it’s joke C, then it’s the envelope under the rug, and so on.

Another way to achieve the same effect would be for the envelope to be empty and for Penn to have the appropriate piece of paper palmed until he “produces” it from the envelope as he rips it open.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Penn & Teller actually revealed how they do this trick in one of their TV specials.

There are a limited number of possible answers. There is a different gimmick to match every possible answer.

In the television special is was a card trick done on a beach. They would hijack random people to pick a card, and then demonstrate their “psychic ability” by showing that card was somehow anticipated. If the mark picked the 8 of spades, Teller might open a beach umbrella and a giant 8 of spades would be hanging there. If the mark picked the three of diamonds, Teller might pull up his shirt to reveal a 3 of diamonds painted on his chest.

The thing is all 52 cards were represented on that beach somewhere. The trick wasn’t that whatever card the mark picked was anticipated, but that Penn & Teller were able to remember the locations of all those cards on that beach.

For a stage show it could be easier. It would be simple, for example, for Pen & Teller to have a half dozen joke books printed that only had a dozen or so jokes in them, printed over and over again to fill out the book. Thus narrowing the audience members choices, then it’s just a matter of remembering if he picks joke A, it’s the envelope in Penn’s left jacket pocket, if he picks joke B, then it’s Teller’s right jacket pocket, if it’s joke C, then it’s the envelope under the rug, and so on.

Another way to achieve the same effect would be for the envelope to be empty and for Penn to have the appropriate piece of paper palmed until he “produces” it from the envelope as he rips it open.

Well, I wasn't going to go into details, but that's what I meant by "the answer was hedged."

[Humanists Harbor]

Thanks, looks like you're exactly right. It's amazing, some versions cost as much as two hundred bucks and others are dirt cheap. Are you familiar enough with book tests to recommend one for me to get? Otherwise I can try to swing by Tannen's magic shop and see what they think. I'd definitely want one that doesn't require a gimmicked book.

Thanks again for your help!

Originally Posted by Garrette

Humanists, I don't know this exact variation but it really just sounds like a Book Test. There are dozens out there, some requiring a fair investment, others not.

Go to a magic shop or online magic store and ask about book tests.

Also, from your description, it sounds like the answer was hedged.

[JPK]

Good evening Humanists Harbor.

Originally Posted by Humanists Harbor

Thanks, looks like you're exactly right. It's amazing, some versions cost as much as two hundred bucks and others are dirt cheap. Are you familiar enough with book tests to recommend one for me to get? Otherwise I can try to swing by Tannen's magic shop and see what they think. I'd definitely want one that doesn't require a gimmicked book.

Thanks again for your help!

Book tests are pretty fun in the right setting. There are several differant imprompt ways of pulling them off with someone elses books that you have never touched, some where you have had access to the book ahead of time, and there are of course gimmicks.
With almost all magic, the way the trick is set up, your presentaion, is what will guide you on what kind of book test you will choose.
Let me ask you this, do you do magic tricks already or are you just interested in how these types of effects work?
If it's the latter, I can assure you that learning the way an effect is done will most certainly ruin the "Magic" it had for you before you knew. I believe it was Penn who said that the secret is almost always ugly.
There are many people that collect magic secrets I guess they get some kind of joy out of it. I just don't get it.
JPK
PS I'm a bit jealous that you are close enough to swing by Tannens. Tannen's is probably the closest to me, but it is still a bit of a trip.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by JPK

If it's the latter, I can assure you that learning the way an effect is done will most certainly ruin the "Magic" it had for you before you knew.

Not me. I enjoy knowing how a trick is done. I find it enhances my appreciation of a performance.

[Garrette]

I'm with Mycroft. I have never been a paid performer, and mostly do just a impromptu things, with the occasional planned effect thrown in, so my actual performing skills are pretty low compared to real magicians on this board. Except on those things which fit my personality, of course; I find there are some effects I can present mock-humorously and others I can present as serious mentalism that just work for me.

But I've been "collecting" (I prefer "researching") the field for about three decades. My library is extensive, and I have a big trunk and a few large tubs full of store-bought effects.

I always enjoy a show when it is performed well, whether I know the method or not.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Humanists Harbor

Thanks, looks like you're exactly right. It's amazing, some versions cost as much as two hundred bucks and others are dirt cheap. Are you familiar enough with book tests to recommend one for me to get? Otherwise I can try to swing by Tannen's magic shop and see what they think. I'd definitely want one that doesn't require a gimmicked book.

Thanks again for your help!

JPK gave you the best answer. I have several book tests, including a couple that do not require a gimmicked book, but I'd have to dig them out. Figure out your style and let JPK recommend one after that (I'll try to, too, if it comes to that).

But don't gloss over Mycroft's explanation. I think it is the more likely one in this case.

[NiallM]

Actually, the books could contain what look like hundreds of jokes, but with maybe a choice of only ten generic punchlines. That would reduce the difficulty enormously, while making a scan of the book give the impression that there were hundreds of entirely different jokes.

[JPK]

Good morning Mycroft

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Not me. I enjoy knowing how a trick is done. I find it enhances my appreciation of a performance.

After looking at my post I can see how it sounded a little stuffy. I really don't have a problem with people collecting secrets. I was just tring to point out that many times when you see a trick performed and are amazed by it, and then learn how it is done, it can be a big let down.
JPK

[Humanists Harbor]

Hi JPK, thanks for the response. Do I do magic? A little. I'm very klutzy so there aren't many tricks I can do well. I'll never master a double lift so there go all of the cool card tricks I know. It seems that most of the time when I learn a trick that I'm hoping to perform I discover that it's either too difficult for me or just too impractical. I know some cool levitations but I'd never get away with them in an informal setting - they'd nail me right away. And who isn't going to spot a thumb tip if I do a trick at the dinner table? A better magician would be fine, but not me. My newest trick is Sinful by Wayne Houchin, which is a great effect and surprisingly easy to do. A little bit more practice on the handling and I'll be ready to perform it for somebody.

But I love learning about magic. I've been a magic geek my whole life and I like knowing the secrets whether I'm going to perform the trick or not. I can't imagine I'll ever be in a situation to make the Statue of Liberty disappear but I still like knowing how it's done. I'm particularly fond of knowing tricks that "psychics" and other con artists use.

A quick Tannen's story - My fiancee's family has a place upstate and we were up there a couple of summers ago for the Fourth of July. They had invited a friend from down the road over for dessert. "He's cool," they told me. "He does magic tricks." At this point I hadn't been in the relationship for all that long so my magic geekdom hadn't really come up in conversation yet. I started going on and on about what a fan I was of magic. I started talking about Tannen's - "I used to go there on weekends with a group of friends," I said. "The guy who owned it, Tony, was so cool and amazing to talk to."

"Oh, that's him," they said. And indeed it was - ten minutes later I was having cookies and talking magic with the (former) owner of Tannen's. The next day he invited us over to check out the memoribilia in his basement (including some awesome old photos of Randi). I really love cool coincidences like that. He lives upstate all year now but we usually see him and his goofy, adorable dog when we're up there. Nice guy.

I live in NYC so lemme know if you're ever in the area and we'll swing by Tannen's together. I haven't been there in a long time, since before they moved.

Cheers,
HH

Originally Posted by JPK

Good evening Humanists Harbor.


Book tests are pretty fun in the right setting. There are several differant imprompt ways of pulling them off with someone elses books that you have never touched, some where you have had access to the book ahead of time, and there are of course gimmicks.
With almost all magic, the way the trick is set up, your presentaion, is what will guide you on what kind of book test you will choose.
Let me ask you this, do you do magic tricks already or are you just interested in how these types of effects work?
If it's the latter, I can assure you that learning the way an effect is done will most certainly ruin the "Magic" it had for you before you knew. I believe it was Penn who said that the secret is almost always ugly.
There are many people that collect magic secrets I guess they get some kind of joy out of it. I just don't get it.
JPK
PS I'm a bit jealous that you are close enough to swing by Tannens. Tannen's is probably the closest to me, but it is still a bit of a trip.

[Humanists Harbor]

I saw the show that Mycroft is referring to, I believe it was the one with the submarine trick at the end. After seeing the psychic trick live I'm pretty confident that Mycroft's explanation is not correct. I think they did some sort of book test. But, of course, I don't know how a book test is done so maybe once I learn I'll reconsider. Of course, if the better versions of the trick are the more expensive ones it may be a while before I pick this one up.

HH

Originally Posted by Garrette

JPK gave you the best answer. I have several book tests, including a couple that do not require a gimmicked book, but I'd have to dig them out. Figure out your style and let JPK recommend one after that (I'll try to, too, if it comes to that).

But don't gloss over Mycroft's explanation. I think it is the more likely one in this case.

[Garrette]

Originally Posted by Humanists Harbor

I saw the show that Mycroft is referring to, I believe it was the one with the submarine trick at the end. After seeing the psychic trick live I'm pretty confident that Mycroft's explanation is not correct. I think they did some sort of book test. But, of course, I don't know how a book test is done so maybe once I learn I'll reconsider. Of course, if the better versions of the trick are the more expensive ones it may be a while before I pick this one up.

HH

Not all good book tests are expensive. I will try to dig up names for you this weekend, but no promises.

Regarding your earlier comments on the thumb tip, I recommend these two items:

Darwin's Encyclopedia of...

Which I actually don't have, but Darwin is always worthwhile, in my experience. Not cheap, though.

101 Tricks With...

This one is very inexpensive and may convince you that using a TT even at an informal dinner setting is quite possible.

[JPK]

Good morning Humanists Harbor.

Originally Posted by Humanists Harbor

My newest trick is Sinful by Wayne Houchin, which is a great effect and surprisingly easy to do. A little bit more practice on the handling and I'll be ready to perform it for somebody.

I love this trick. In fact Wayne Houchin is quickly becoming one of my favorite producers of effects.
Some time this weekend I will dig up the names of a bunch of book tests.
I recently purchased the Dracula book test. The price was fair and the book is something that everyone is familar with.
JPK

[Garrette]

As promised, here are some book tests. But on re-reading the OP, I am more convinced it was not a book test at all but used a method already described here.

For some relatively expensive methods that are not impromptu, try Lee Earle; also look up M.I.N.D (Mentalism in New Directions) which is not an effect itself but a collection which will include some discussion on book tests.

David Hoy has two methods which you can download here very inexpensively.

Try Annemann’s Complete One Man Mental and Psychic Routine which you can also download here for a small fee. It will include “Book Mentalism” which isn’t bad.

Speaking of Annemann, he has a complete section on book tests and magazine tests in his book Practical Mental Magic. It is a little dated but well worth the cost.

If you’re buying books, each of these has info on book tests:

• Corinda’s 13 Steps to Mentalism with a complete section on book tests (this book is mandatory if you are serious about mentalism)
• Mark Wilson’s Complete Course in Magic which has one very simple magazine test but which is also de rigeur for beginning magicians
• Barrie Richardson’s Theater of the Mind for a good magazine test called “An Experiment in Remote Viewing” and a good newspaper test/prediction called “Word Flight.” I’ve mentioned this book a few times. If you want to learn how miracles can be easily done, this is the book.
• Richard Mark’s book Mind Warps has some decent effects. It has two book tests in this book. I don’t really care for either, but someone else might.

If you care to spend money on some DVDs you can get Marc Paul’s Mind 2 Mind for his AAA Book Test (Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere) which is very easy but very brazen and demands guts and confidence.

For what I consider the best book test (best for me, anyway, as it fits my style, is relatively easy and is almost impromptu), get Ted Lesley’s DVD Cabaret and Mind Reading. I absolutely hate Ted Lesley’s style; he bores me to tears. But for methodology he’s quite worthwhile. The book test in this one, as presented, is not really impromptu, but I’ve figured out a very simple way to make it impromptu. If you get this and want to know how, pm me.

That should do it.

[Azrael 5]

Garrette,I have that dvd(although I can't recall the effect right now).A PM pour qui??
That Directory test of Barrie Richardsons sounds a killer also.

[Grimoire]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

Not me. I enjoy knowing how a trick is done. I find it enhances my appreciation of a performance.

Me too. I was envisioning half a dozen of different ways to do that trick. All of which were extremely elaborate (hidden cameras, microphones, numerous planted audience members, etc.). It never occurred to me that something as simple and elegant as a specially printed joke book would be used.

Some people feel "cheated" when they find out how a trick is done. "What? He used twins?! But that's cheating!" But me, half the time I know what they did it anyways. When I am tricked, and then find out how it was done, I enjoy it even more, because I see just how well they were able to do it!

The first time I felt that was years ago when I saw P&T do their blast off routine on TV.

[Garrette]

Azrael 5, check pm.

Richardson's Directory effect is killer and worth the price alone, but I warn you that the method is not at all what you would anticipate. The description I have given of it is not identical to his presentation but can be done.

[Humanists Harbor]

Beautiful, thanks for all of the info, looks like I've got lots of fun ahead of me.

P.S. Earlier this afternoon I received a belated holiday gift from a work friend (who, by the way, had no idea that I was interested in magic). MONOGRAMMED PLAYING CARDS FROM TIFFANY'S. Fancy blue box and everything. Yay! So I guess I'm going to have to find a way to master a double-lift after all and get some card tricks into my repertoire.


[quote=Garrette;2261481]As promised, here are some book tests. QUOTE]

[Reno]

I do two card tricks. Just two. They are both beautifully simple tricks that are self-working, need no gimmicks, and require no sleight of hand. To people who don't know the secret, astounding. I have only ever revealed how I did one of them to 2 people: My wife, and my daughter, both on separate occasions, and both times because they forced me into revealing one of the tricks using their feminine wiles. (my wife made promises and threats, my daughter quivered her bottom lip and filled her eyes with tears) Both their responses when I explained the trick were the same: "But that's cheating!" That trick, to my wife and daughter, has lost it's beauty and mystical intrigue. I'll never reveal to them how the other one works.

But I still like to know how tricks are done!