What Consistutes a Preliminary Test for Telekinesis?

jnanasakti@yahoo.com · 6th January 2007, 08:02 PM

I have a simple question: what would constitute a preliminary test for telekinesis? I mean what are we talking about here?

Does some have to knock over an object from 10 feet away 2 times? Would that consititue a Preliminary Test?

And if that was okay for a preliminary test, then what would constitute a formal test?

Curious as to more of the specifics when dealing with applicants that claim telekinetic abilities.

Regards.

GzuzKryzt · 6th January 2007, 09:27 PM

The test depends on the claimed ability. The applicant has to make a claim and propose a procedure to verify said claim. This is the core of the application.

Should the proposed procedure need negotiation, this is then done mutually. When a protocol is agreed upon, it is used both in the preliminary and final test.

Perhaps you will find help here: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

Welcome to the Forum, jnanasakti@yahoo.com.

Rasmus · 6th January 2007, 09:51 PM

I agree that it would depend on the exact claim.

The test will be designed to prevent winnnig by sheer dumb luck or simple cheating.

So, if your claim is "I can make a glass slide of the centre of a table from 10 feet away" you might get away with 2 or 3 demonstrations. Glasses don't move by themselves, so if you can do it twice there is no reason to assume that it was just pure luck. (I guess.)

Here, the cheating factor would probably be more important. I can imagine you would have to specify under which conditions the ability works. If the glass can be shielded from you behind a glass screen, say, it should be relatively simple to come up with a secure setup.

If, on the other hand, you insist on supplying your own glass and table, as well as a location where you can rent out all surrounding rooms 3 months prior to the test ... well ....

The video shows a past setup. It all depends on the claim, of course. My take is, that if I can direct a weak force at the page of a book (or shift a glass, of course), it might also affect the surrounding plastic flakes, yet be weak enough to leave the table unmoved.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Burner · 7th January 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Rasmus

I agree that it would depend on the exact claim.

The video shows a past setup. It all depends on the claim, of course. My take is, that if I can direct a weak force at the page of a book (or shift a glass, of course), it might also affect the surrounding plastic flakes, yet be weak enough to leave the table unmoved.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Yeah that was confusing. If indeed his 'psychic' force could affect the book pages, it'd bee logical to move those flakes too. They should've just asked him to put a mask over his mouth. He'd prolly just think up a reason why his chi power can't penetrate the mask tho.

Btw, got any more videos like this?

Spektator · 7th January 2007, 10:27 AM

I would say that the challenger should, with the unassisted power of mind alone, lift a one-ton weight at least ten feet in the air for not less than thirty minutes. Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough.

Rasmus · 7th January 2007, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Burner

If indeed his 'psychic' force could affect the book pages, it'd bee logical to move those flakes too.

"Logical" is a bit of a stretch here, since we do not know how exactly this alleged "force" is supposed to work. If it is like gravity or magnetism then it would indeed be much like wind.

But of course if the guy had made that claim, it would have just required a better definition of the effect, a way of telling it from just blowing over a page in the book and some other equipment for Randi.

Cuddles · 8th January 2007, 02:53 AM

As others have said, it depends on the exact claim, but I would expect most tests simply to consist of moving something, whether large or small, while isolated from it. Larger objects would obviously be easier, since while it is possible to turn the pages of a book by blowing, it would be rather harder to move the whole book. Generally, I would expect telekinesis to be one of the easiest things to test, since no statistics need be involved, either an object moves or it doesn't.

A few questions that would help :
Firstly, do you claim this ability or does someone else? (If it was just a hypothetical question, please consider moving to the Skepticism and Paranormal section, since this area is for applications.) Bear in mind that an application has to come from the claimant, you can't apply for another person.
What can you/they move? Can you just turn pages or move a candle flame, or can you levitate a whole person?
Does the ability always work? In the past, people have claimed that it only works sometimes, which complicates the testing enormously.
Do you have an idea of how you would like to conduct a test?

Finally, this application was also about telekinesis, although unfotunately was never tested. You may be able to get some ideas of how the JREF would organise a test from there.

jnanasakti@yahoo.com · 8th January 2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Spektator

I would say that the challenger should, with the unassisted power of mind alone, lift a one-ton weight at least ten feet in the air for not less than thirty minutes. Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough.

"...Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough" ...you got that right!

jnanasakti@yahoo.com · 8th January 2007, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

As others have said, it depends on the exact claim, but I would expect most tests simply to consist of moving something, whether large or small, while isolated from it. Larger objects would obviously be easier, since while it is possible to turn the pages of a book by blowing, it would be rather harder to move the whole book. Generally, I would expect telekinesis to be one of the easiest things to test, since no statistics need be involved, either an object moves or it doesn't.

A few questions that would help :
Firstly, do you claim this ability or does someone else? (If it was just a hypothetical question, please consider moving to the Skepticism and Paranormal section, since this area is for applications.) Bear in mind that an application has to come from the claimant, you can't apply for another person.
What can you/they move? Can you just turn pages or move a candle flame, or can you levitate a whole person?
Does the ability always work? In the past, people have claimed that it only works sometimes, which complicates the testing enormously.
Do you have an idea of how you would like to conduct a test?

Finally, this application was also about telekinesis, although unfotunately was never tested. You may be able to get some ideas of how the JREF would organise a test from there.

No I do not claim this ability. However, I may know someone who migh have such abilities. And yes I understand that in terms of the application, the claimant must apply directly. I was just curious as to some generalities. The example you sight by Beth Clarkson, in terms of the experiment itself, is far too fickle for the purposes I would intend. Telekinesis that would be performed would not be as spectacular as lifting 1 ton for 30 mins., but it would be definitive. Thanks for giving a slight more insight into the processes.

Spektator · 9th January 2007, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by jnanasakti@yahoo.com

"...Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough" ...you got that right!

Actually I did not. I misspelled "spectacular!"

6th January 2007, 08:02 PM	#1
jnanasakti@yahoo.com New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	What Consistutes a Preliminary Test for Telekinesis? I have a simple question: what would constitute a preliminary test for telekinesis? I mean what are we talking about here? Does some have to knock over an object from 10 feet away 2 times? Would that consititue a Preliminary Test? And if that was okay for a preliminary test, then what would constitute a formal test? Curious as to more of the specifics when dealing with applicants that claim telekinetic abilities. Regards.

6th January 2007, 09:27 PM	#2
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367	The test depends on the claimed ability. The applicant has to make a claim and propose a procedure to verify said claim. This is the core of the application. Should the proposed procedure need negotiation, this is then done mutually. When a protocol is agreed upon, it is used both in the preliminary and final test. Perhaps you will find help here: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html Welcome to the Forum, jnanasakti@yahoo.com.
GzuzKryzt Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,367

7th January 2007, 08:36 PM	#6
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	Originally Posted by Burner If indeed his 'psychic' force could affect the book pages, it'd bee logical to move those flakes too. "Logical" is a bit of a stretch here, since we do not know how exactly this alleged "force" is supposed to work. If it is like gravity or magnetism then it would indeed be much like wind. But of course if the guy had made that claim, it would have just required a better definition of the effect, a way of telling it from just blowing over a page in the book and some other equipment for Randi.
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138

8th January 2007, 02:53 AM	#7
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	As others have said, it depends on the exact claim, but I would expect most tests simply to consist of moving something, whether large or small, while isolated from it. Larger objects would obviously be easier, since while it is possible to turn the pages of a book by blowing, it would be rather harder to move the whole book. Generally, I would expect telekinesis to be one of the easiest things to test, since no statistics need be involved, either an object moves or it doesn't. A few questions that would help : Firstly, do you claim this ability or does someone else? (If it was just a hypothetical question, please consider moving to the Skepticism and Paranormal section, since this area is for applications.) Bear in mind that an application has to come from the claimant, you can't apply for another person. What can you/they move? Can you just turn pages or move a candle flame, or can you levitate a whole person? Does the ability always work? In the past, people have claimed that it only works sometimes, which complicates the testing enormously. Do you have an idea of how you would like to conduct a test? Finally, this application was also about telekinesis, although unfotunately was never tested. You may be able to get some ideas of how the JREF would organise a test from there.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

7th January 2007, 10:27 AM	#5
Spektator Dog Who Laughs Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,322	I would say that the challenger should, with the unassisted power of mind alone, lift a one-ton weight at least ten feet in the air for not less than thirty minutes. Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough.

8th January 2007, 09:12 PM	#8
jnanasakti@yahoo.com New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	Originally Posted by Spektator I would say that the challenger should, with the unassisted power of mind alone, lift a one-ton weight at least ten feet in the air for not less than thirty minutes. Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough. "...Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough" ...you got that right!

8th January 2007, 09:24 PM	#9
jnanasakti@yahoo.com New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 3	Originally Posted by Cuddles As others have said, it depends on the exact claim, but I would expect most tests simply to consist of moving something, whether large or small, while isolated from it. Larger objects would obviously be easier, since while it is possible to turn the pages of a book by blowing, it would be rather harder to move the whole book. Generally, I would expect telekinesis to be one of the easiest things to test, since no statistics need be involved, either an object moves or it doesn't. A few questions that would help : Firstly, do you claim this ability or does someone else? (If it was just a hypothetical question, please consider moving to the Skepticism and Paranormal section, since this area is for applications.) Bear in mind that an application has to come from the claimant, you can't apply for another person. What can you/they move? Can you just turn pages or move a candle flame, or can you levitate a whole person? Does the ability always work? In the past, people have claimed that it only works sometimes, which complicates the testing enormously. Do you have an idea of how you would like to conduct a test? Finally, this application was also about telekinesis, although unfotunately was never tested. You may be able to get some ideas of how the JREF would organise a test from there. No I do not claim this ability. However, I may know someone who migh have such abilities. And yes I understand that in terms of the application, the claimant must apply directly. I was just curious as to some generalities. The example you sight by Beth Clarkson, in terms of the experiment itself, is far too fickle for the purposes I would intend. Telekinesis that would be performed would not be as spectacular as lifting 1 ton for 30 mins., but it would be definitive. Thanks for giving a slight more insight into the processes.

9th January 2007, 05:47 AM	#10
Spektator Dog Who Laughs Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,322	Originally Posted by jnanasakti@yahoo.com "...Anything else just isn't spectacluar enough" ...you got that right! Actually I did not. I misspelled "spectacular!"