Anyone wanna join in debunking Painful Deceptions?

JAStewart · 17th January 2007, 08:46 AM

Yeah, so I got about a few minutes into this POS when I heard "Larry Silverstein gave the order to the firemen to demolish the building" and got mad. So i thought i'd start with debunking it.

Anyone care to join?

A W Smith · 17th January 2007, 08:51 AM

Is there a link?

Redtail · 17th January 2007, 09:03 AM

Here ya go.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67662031629480

The Demon's Head · 17th January 2007, 04:35 PM

Wasn't this the video that was debunked by Penn & Teller?

StoneWT · 17th January 2007, 04:41 PM

You might want to skip this one or combine it with a project concerning some of the other minor films. It had it's heyday a couple of years ago and really isn't all that important anymore. Eric Hufschmid is a bit of a joke now what with embracing 'extreme' Holocaust revisionism and the moon landing hoax.

Unfit4Command · 17th January 2007, 04:56 PM

Sure, I could help debunk this piece of crap. I'm only 10 minutes in so far, but so far it seems like an easy piece to debunk.

jaydeehess · 17th January 2007, 05:34 PM

Se posts by jaydees in this thread

Mince · 17th January 2007, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Unfit4Command

Sure, I could help debunk this piece of crap. I'm only 10 minutes in so far, but so far it seems like an easy piece to debunk.

It's merely a rehash of Loose Change with all of the misinterpretations and misconceptions, including the famous "blue tarp mystery, melted steel, "pull it", etc. I could see it fooling indiscriminate, clumsy thinkers.

Brainster · 17th January 2007, 05:59 PM

I'm with StoneWT on this--Hufschmid's not really that significant. Improbable Collapse and (especially) 9-11 Press for Truth are more important right now. But if you do put something together (either text or video) let me know and I'll certainly link it on the blog.

The Doc · 17th January 2007, 06:01 PM

I'm focusing on 911mysteriesguide.com for now. But when that's finished I should be able to help out.

Although I do think that Press For Truth, Improbable Collapse and the Alex Jones films would probably be time better spent.

Oliver · 17th January 2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

PainfulQuestions@aol.com schrieb:

I have not talked about the uranium problem. There are other people already discussing that. I don't have enough time to talk about everything.
A more interesting issue is the Holocaust. Have you looked into that one?

http://www.erichufschmid.net/StopNaziCoverup.html

The people responsible for World War 2 are conducting war right now in the Middle East, and they did the 9/11 attack, and they are still in control of Germany. This is significant today.

My last name comes from the German part of Switzerland, which is why there is no "T" at the end of it.

Eric

Quote:

PainfulQuestions@aol.com schrieb:

I never claimed to have done a lot of research into World War II.

I only have a few remarks about it on my web site. I don't really see the point in arguing with it, either.

DEBUNKED.

The Demon's Head · 17th January 2007, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by The Doc

I'm focusing on 911mysteriesguide.com for now. But when that's finished I should be able to help out.

Although I do think that Press For Truth, Improbable Collapse and the Alex Jones films would probably be time better spent.

Press for Truth? So often many of these videos seem to have the word 'truth' attached. If it was the truth then why are they asking questions and demanding a independent investigation if they know what their claiming is the truth.

I'm hoping my post made sense, I'm quite tired of these shenanigans that this so called 'Truth Movement' keeps spreading over the internet forums and their claiming it to be fact.

T.A.M. · 17th January 2007, 07:08 PM

"Press for Truth" cant really be debunked, because there really isnt any CT in it to debunk.

I am hearing a little buzz about this Pentacon video though...perhaps someone should give this one a debunking whirl.

TAM

StoneWT · 17th January 2007, 08:35 PM

Well, the point is to spend your time working on the videos that are most prominent and have the widest reach. Alex Jones is wildly popular in America by conspiracy standards. Any one of his films would be a good candidate for a thorough examination with his latest ones coming first and then working back as time allows.

No point in wasting time on the small fish.

The Doc · 17th January 2007, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by StoneWT

Well, the point is to spend your time working on the videos that are most prominent and have the widest reach. Alex Jones is wildly popular in America by conspiracy standards. Any one of his films would be a good candidate for a thorough examination with his latest ones coming first and then working back as time allows.

No point in wasting time on the small fish.

Only thing about Alex Jones is the fact that he's more likely to persuit lawsuits regarding the issue.

Brainster · 17th January 2007, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

"Press for Truth" cant really be debunked, because there really isnt any CT in it to debunk.

I am hearing a little buzz about this Pentacon video though...perhaps someone should give this one a debunking whirl.

TAM

It's got some moderate woo in it. Quoting from my review:

Quote:

First we are shown a clip that the first hijacking was reported to the military at 8:38 AM (true). Then the announcer intones, "The last plane was reported to have crashed in Pennsylvania just after 10:00 AM (true enough, but the screen says 10:06, which is false; the 9-11 Commission concluded that the plane crashed at 10:03). One of the Jersey girls laughs and says, "That's almost two hours, that planes were flying around the skies of the United States with no military response."

And that is a lot of crap. First, even if we use their times, that's not even an hour and a half. And anyway, the question is not how long the air defenses had to react to all the hijackings, it's how long they had to react to each individual hijacking. As we know, that's not a very long time.

Flight 11: NEADS notified at 8:38. Crashed at 8:45.
Flight 175: NEADS notified at 9:03. Crashed at 9:03.
Flight 77: NEADS notified at 9:34. Crashed at 9:37.
Flight 93: NEADS notified at 10:07. Crashed at 10:03.

As you can see most advance warning that NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector, a unit of NORAD) had for any of the hijacked planes was seven minutes for Flight 11. The notion that our air defenses could have intercepted any of these planes with that little warning is completely unrealistic.

They go on to the Payne Stewart plane, which of course is an example of the military intercepting a plane in 81 minutes.

And, no kidding, the second question asked by the Jersey Girls is why Bush sat for so long in the elementary school. Never mind that this has nothing to do with their husband's deaths, and that it's completely irrelevant, they apparently want to know why the Secret Service didn't get him out of there. At best it's just gratuitous Bush-bashing; at worst it's that ridiculous argument we hear that Bush stayed in that school because he knew it was safe from attack.

There's also a huge focus on WTC-7, which shows that this is just a CT film trying to masquerade as legitimate questions from the widows. Why do they care about WTC-7 when none of their husbands died there--when in fact nobody died there? It's irrelevant to what really happened that day unless you're a CT nut and don't believe the hijackers existed, and the buildings were brought down with controlled demolition.

Of course, if you point this out in an overlay, you'll probably be accused of being insensitive. I guess the idea is that it's CT enough to satisfy the CT crowd while not seeming overly nutty.

Unfit4Command · 17th January 2007, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

I'm with StoneWT on this--Hufschmid's not really that significant. Improbable Collapse and (especially) 9-11 Press for Truth are more important right now. But if you do put something together (either text or video) let me know and I'll certainly link it on the blog.

I haven't seen either one of those videos yet..I could probably watch them tomorrow or sometime this weekend.

Childlike Empress · 17th January 2007, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

There's also a huge focus on WTC-7

How "huge" is that "focus"? IIRC, about two of eighty-four minutes.

MikeW · 18th January 2007, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Redtail

Here ya go.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67662031629480

Good grief, I never realised quite how deceptive this actually was. A great subject for a debunking, though -- there could be hundreds of incomplete, distorted or misleading statements. If you're willing to cover literally every word then the results should be devastating.

PerryLogan · 18th January 2007, 05:23 AM

So much woo. So little time.

~enigma~ · 18th January 2007, 11:21 AM

I finally finished watching Painful Deceptions and I can safely say that it was no more than a bunch of rapid fire bs and leading questions. Penn and Teller said it best...

Here is the timestamped Eric Hufschmid piece....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...23&hl=en#2m43s

And the 9 minute clip...

Google Video This video is not hosted by the JREF, the JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Atomic Glee · 18th January 2007, 11:42 AM

I love P&T.

"They cooked up a phony terrorist attack. Why, I don't know."

Gee, real deep analysis there, Eric.

Kiwiwriter · 18th January 2007, 02:01 PM

As soon as I see the name, I know this is a guy who is playing with about 23 cards...forget about 47.

I've read his stuff. He denies the Holocaust, but admits he knows very little about World War II.

However, he also denies the Moon landing, and makes equally bizarre statements.

LashL · 18th January 2007, 09:48 PM

I'll be happy to help with the next debunking project. Just let me know which video is next on the hit list (I'm not sure, having read the discussion above, whether you want to go with Painful Deceptions or one of the others next) but count me in

~enigma~ · 18th January 2007, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by LashL

I'll be happy to help with the next debunking project. Just let me know which video is next on the hit list (I'm not sure, having read the discussion above, whether you want to go with Painful Deceptions or one of the others next) but count me in

Don't think this is even worth debunking as Eric Hufshit does a remarkable job of debunking himself.

17th January 2007, 08:46 AM	#1
JAStewart Graduate Poster Tagger Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Shetland Islands Posts: 1,523	Anyone wanna join in debunking Painful Deceptions? Yeah, so I got about a few minutes into this POS when I heard "Larry Silverstein gave the order to the firemen to demolish the building" and got mad. So i thought i'd start with debunking it. Anyone care to join?
	__________________ Ignorance and google is a horrible combination. - BigAl Argumentum ad YouTubeum - sts60

17th January 2007, 09:03 AM	#3
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	Here ya go. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67662031629480
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,304	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

17th January 2007, 04:35 PM	#4
The Demon's Head Crime cannot be tolerated Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hell. Posts: 1,419	Wasn't this the video that was debunked by Penn & Teller?
	__________________

17th January 2007, 04:41 PM	#5
StoneWT Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 401	You might want to skip this one or combine it with a project concerning some of the other minor films. It had it's heyday a couple of years ago and really isn't all that important anymore. Eric Hufschmid is a bit of a joke now what with embracing 'extreme' Holocaust revisionism and the moon landing hoax.
StoneWT Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 401

17th January 2007, 04:56 PM	#6
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	Sure, I could help debunk this piece of crap. I'm only 10 minutes in so far, but so far it seems like an easy piece to debunk.
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________

17th January 2007, 08:51 AM	#2
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 7,031	Is there a link?

17th January 2007, 05:34 PM	#7
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,803	Se posts by jaydees in this thread

17th January 2007, 05:39 PM	#8
Mince Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,019	Originally Posted by Unfit4Command Sure, I could help debunk this piece of crap. I'm only 10 minutes in so far, but so far it seems like an easy piece to debunk. It's merely a rehash of Loose Change with all of the misinterpretations and misconceptions, including the famous "blue tarp mystery, melted steel, "pull it", etc. I could see it fooling indiscriminate, clumsy thinkers.
Mince Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 2,019	Last edited by Mince; 17th January 2007 at 05:45 PM.

17th January 2007, 05:59 PM	#9
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,423	I'm with StoneWT on this--Hufschmid's not really that significant. Improbable Collapse and (especially) 9-11 Press for Truth are more important right now. But if you do put something together (either text or video) let me know and I'll certainly link it on the blog.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

17th January 2007, 06:01 PM	#10
The Doc Curing Stupidity Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,160	I'm focusing on 911mysteriesguide.com for now. But when that's finished I should be able to help out. Although I do think that Press For Truth, Improbable Collapse and the Alex Jones films would probably be time better spent.
	__________________ Author - 9/11 Mysteries Viewer's Guide http://www.911mysteriesguide.com Creator - "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...24912447824934

17th January 2007, 06:02 PM	#11
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,369	Quote: PainfulQuestions@aol.com schrieb: I have not talked about the uranium problem. There are other people already discussing that. I don't have enough time to talk about everything. A more interesting issue is the Holocaust. Have you looked into that one? http://www.erichufschmid.net/StopNaziCoverup.html The people responsible for World War 2 are conducting war right now in the Middle East, and they did the 9/11 attack, and they are still in control of Germany. This is significant today. My last name comes from the German part of Switzerland, which is why there is no "T" at the end of it. Eric Quote: PainfulQuestions@aol.com schrieb: I never claimed to have done a lot of research into World War II. I only have a few remarks about it on my web site. I don't really see the point in arguing with it, either. DEBUNKED.
	__________________

17th January 2007, 06:12 PM	#12
The Demon's Head Crime cannot be tolerated Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hell. Posts: 1,419	Originally Posted by The Doc I'm focusing on 911mysteriesguide.com for now. But when that's finished I should be able to help out. Although I do think that Press For Truth, Improbable Collapse and the Alex Jones films would probably be time better spent. Press for Truth? So often many of these videos seem to have the word 'truth' attached. If it was the truth then why are they asking questions and demanding a independent investigation if they know what their claiming is the truth. I'm hoping my post made sense, I'm quite tired of these shenanigans that this so called 'Truth Movement' keeps spreading over the internet forums and their claiming it to be fact.
	__________________

17th January 2007, 07:08 PM	#13
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	"Press for Truth" cant really be debunked, because there really isnt any CT in it to debunk. I am hearing a little buzz about this Pentacon video though...perhaps someone should give this one a debunking whirl. TAM

17th January 2007, 08:35 PM	#14
StoneWT Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 401	Well, the point is to spend your time working on the videos that are most prominent and have the widest reach. Alex Jones is wildly popular in America by conspiracy standards. Any one of his films would be a good candidate for a thorough examination with his latest ones coming first and then working back as time allows. No point in wasting time on the small fish.
StoneWT Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 401

17th January 2007, 08:49 PM	#15
The Doc Curing Stupidity Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,160	Originally Posted by StoneWT Well, the point is to spend your time working on the videos that are most prominent and have the widest reach. Alex Jones is wildly popular in America by conspiracy standards. Any one of his films would be a good candidate for a thorough examination with his latest ones coming first and then working back as time allows. No point in wasting time on the small fish. Only thing about Alex Jones is the fact that he's more likely to persuit lawsuits regarding the issue.
	__________________ Author - 9/11 Mysteries Viewer's Guide http://www.911mysteriesguide.com Creator - "Screw 9/11 Mysteries" http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...24912447824934

17th January 2007, 09:02 PM	#16
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,423	Originally Posted by T.A.M. "Press for Truth" cant really be debunked, because there really isnt any CT in it to debunk. I am hearing a little buzz about this Pentacon video though...perhaps someone should give this one a debunking whirl. TAM It's got some moderate woo in it. Quoting from my review: Quote: First we are shown a clip that the first hijacking was reported to the military at 8:38 AM (true). Then the announcer intones, "The last plane was reported to have crashed in Pennsylvania just after 10:00 AM (true enough, but the screen says 10:06, which is false; the 9-11 Commission concluded that the plane crashed at 10:03). One of the Jersey girls laughs and says, "That's almost two hours, that planes were flying around the skies of the United States with no military response." And that is a lot of crap. First, even if we use their times, that's not even an hour and a half. And anyway, the question is not how long the air defenses had to react to all the hijackings, it's how long they had to react to each individual hijacking. As we know, that's not a very long time. Flight 11: NEADS notified at 8:38. Crashed at 8:45. Flight 175: NEADS notified at 9:03. Crashed at 9:03. Flight 77: NEADS notified at 9:34. Crashed at 9:37. Flight 93: NEADS notified at 10:07. Crashed at 10:03. As you can see most advance warning that NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector, a unit of NORAD) had for any of the hijacked planes was seven minutes for Flight 11. The notion that our air defenses could have intercepted any of these planes with that little warning is completely unrealistic. They go on to the Payne Stewart plane, which of course is an example of the military intercepting a plane in 81 minutes. And, no kidding, the second question asked by the Jersey Girls is why Bush sat for so long in the elementary school. Never mind that this has nothing to do with their husband's deaths, and that it's completely irrelevant, they apparently want to know why the Secret Service didn't get him out of there. At best it's just gratuitous Bush-bashing; at worst it's that ridiculous argument we hear that Bush stayed in that school because he knew it was safe from attack. There's also a huge focus on WTC-7, which shows that this is just a CT film trying to masquerade as legitimate questions from the widows. Why do they care about WTC-7 when none of their husbands died there--when in fact nobody died there? It's irrelevant to what really happened that day unless you're a CT nut and don't believe the hijackers existed, and the buildings were brought down with controlled demolition. Of course, if you point this out in an overlay, you'll probably be accused of being insensitive. I guess the idea is that it's CT enough to satisfy the CT crowd while not seeming overly nutty.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

17th January 2007, 09:25 PM	#17
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	Originally Posted by Brainster I'm with StoneWT on this--Hufschmid's not really that significant. Improbable Collapse and (especially) 9-11 Press for Truth are more important right now. But if you do put something together (either text or video) let me know and I'll certainly link it on the blog. I haven't seen either one of those videos yet..I could probably watch them tomorrow or sometime this weekend.
Unfit4Command Muse Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 730	__________________

17th January 2007, 10:14 PM	#18
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 7,834	Originally Posted by Brainster There's also a huge focus on WTC-7 How "huge" is that "focus"? IIRC, about two of eighty-four minutes.

18th January 2007, 02:23 AM	#19
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911	Originally Posted by Redtail Here ya go. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67662031629480 Good grief, I never realised quite how deceptive this actually was. A great subject for a debunking, though -- there could be hundreds of incomplete, distorted or misleading statements. If you're willing to cover literally every word then the results should be devastating.
MikeW Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,911

18th January 2007, 05:23 AM	#20
PerryLogan Banned Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In the earth's deep core Posts: 980	So much woo. So little time.

18th January 2007, 11:42 AM	#22
Atomic Glee New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 10	I love P&T. "They cooked up a phony terrorist attack. Why, I don't know." Gee, real deep analysis there, Eric.

18th January 2007, 02:01 PM	#23
Kiwiwriter Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2006 Location: Newark, NJ Posts: 1,110	Eric Hufschmid? There's a red flag! As soon as I see the name, I know this is a guy who is playing with about 23 cards...forget about 47. I've read his stuff. He denies the Holocaust, but admits he knows very little about World War II. However, he also denies the Moon landing, and makes equally bizarre statements.
	__________________ "When you hate, the only one that suffers is you because most of the people you hate don't know it and the rest don't care." -- Medgar Evers "My intensity is intense." -- Roger Clemens Check out my writing at http://www.usswashington.com/dl_index.htm and my blog at http://davidhlippman.wildbillguarnere.com

18th January 2007, 09:48 PM	#24
LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™ Administrator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 26,204	I'll be happy to help with the next debunking project. Just let me know which video is next on the hit list (I'm not sure, having read the discussion above, whether you want to go with Painful Deceptions or one of the others next) but count me in
	Last edited by LashL; 18th January 2007 at 09:51 PM.

18th January 2007, 10:03 PM	#25
~enigma~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Center of the universe Posts: 7,954	Originally Posted by LashL I'll be happy to help with the next debunking project. Just let me know which video is next on the hit list (I'm not sure, having read the discussion above, whether you want to go with Painful Deceptions or one of the others next) but count me in Don't think this is even worth debunking as Eric Hufshit does a remarkable job of debunking himself.