Can't speak, rage overwhelming Loose Change on Irish TV

[8den]

I noticed over on the loose change forum that they were boasting loose change 2nd edition is to be broadcast on Irish State TV. I was immensely skeptical, but on the office chance phoned a close contact in their press office, who, and my heart sank, confirmed that yes, loose change will be broadcast sometime in February.

I'm furious. RTE has made some fantastic documentaries, it's primetime investigates series, hidden historys, and secret lives series, and the aclaimed The revoultion will not be televised about the coup and counter coup aganist Hugo Chavez. Like I said RTE have made some fantastic documentaries, hell I've worked on several of them, finding out that loose change is going to broadcast on national tv, it's like seeing a giant turd in a bouquet of flowers.

I'm being sent a complaint line number. And e-mail address. Not living in Ireland nor paying my licence fee (yes yes very socialist) my contact wryly pointed out that my complaint will not exactly recieve top priority. But I'm hoping to enlist some fellow skeptics who are in the old sod.

I'll be e-mailing them the traditional guide and screw loose change video, anything else I should put in.

Hoping rule8 mad.

[HeyLeroy]

Post the e-mail addy, when you can.

[jhunter1163]

I'd send them linkage to Prisonplanet and American Free Press, let them see for themselves what kinds of sources Dylan is using.

[jon]

Damn - I thought they were making that up You might also want to make sure they know that the makers have acknowledged that there are lots of mistakes in the film, and are making a 'final cut' that tries to fix or remove them.

What's RTE like in terms of legal issues? You'd imagine they'd have already looked into this - but you could mention that there's a lot of copyrighted material in LC, mostly used without clearance from the rights holders, IIRC. Does Ireland have a 'fair use' law, or not? And, of course, if any of the admitted mistakes in the film are seen as libellous, that could become a big problem.

Glad you e-mailed them, anyway. Yeah, I thought RTE was a 'proper' broadcaster

[The Silver Shadow]

The only time LC has surfaced on the Canadian airwaves was when Dylan was interviewed for "The Hour", a news show for young people. Unfortunately, Dylan's performance was very lacklustre! Still, even though there are plenty of documentary based programs such as the "Passionate Eye" and other things on CBC, LC hasn't been broadcast on it, or I missed it as well as everyone else that even harbours the tiniest of beliefs that 9/11 was an inside job...

[jhunter1163]

Maybe TAM could prescribe him some drops for those glazed eyes.

[8den]

Originally Posted by jon

Damn - I thought they were making that up You might also want to make sure they know that the makers have acknowledged that there are lots of mistakes in the film, and are making a 'final cut' that tries to fix or remove them.

What's RTE like in terms of legal issues? You'd imagine they'd have already looked into this - but you could mention that there's a lot of copyrighted material in LC, mostly used without clearance from the rights holders, IIRC. Does Ireland have a 'fair use' law, or not? And, of course, if any of the admitted mistakes in the film are seen as libellous, that could become a big problem.

Glad you e-mailed them, anyway. Yeah, I thought RTE was a 'proper' broadcaster

They are. Theyve made some fantastic documentaries.

I'm going to approach this on three fronts.

1. Copyright.

2. Libel. Remind me, Loose Change 2nd edition includes the Silverstein quote right? Irish Libel law is as vicious as british, they've basically the same law. If some of the smarter souls on this forum could point me out to some of the more libelous comments in loose change that'd be helpful. In ireland you if write something libelous the offended party can sue the news agents that carries the magazine.

3. Factual accuracy.

Could people point me towards some simple bullet points to debunk the film?

[uk_dave]

Originally Posted by 8den

Could people point me towards some simple bullet points to debunk the film?

Just link to the debunking websites, including this forum. Make it clear that to show this film without critique will leave the channel open to criticism and possibly ridicule.

Maybe suggest they schedule it within a discussion programme where the flaws in the film can be analysed.

Ultimately they may just feel that it's out there, will stir up some publicity for the channel and will get a debate started.

Alternatively they may have the intention of not showing it in isolation and already intend to critique it. The MSM aint daft.

[Miragememories]

Probability Irish State TV felt seeing was more important than hearing.

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

MM

[HyJinX]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Probability Irish State TV felt seeing was more important than hearing.

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

MM

MM, Please answer the questions in this post:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...89#post2276889

Thank you.

[T.A.M.]

The only thing related to LC I saw on Canadian TV was around the 5th ani, when they interviewed Dylan for a documentary news piece. The piece was pretty even handed.

TAM

[apathoid]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think......

MM

Ah, so now skeptics(read: sane, intelligent people) are all bigots? The things you people have to tell yourselves to cling to your fantasies...sheesh. And as long as we're generalizing, I think you have it precisely backwards - the bigots are all on your side. The very worst of humanity(Klan members and assorted neo-Nazis at Stormfront.org) seem to overwhelmingly agree with you about 9/11. We have the engineers, you have the bigots.....embrace them because they're all you have.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Probability Irish State TV felt seeing was more important than hearing.

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

MM

It is hard for no fact CTers to ever find the truth since they are the bigots. Bigots who disdain knowledge and just make up lies. Bigots who will not learn physics or take engineering course so they can help instead of making up lies.

Their is an a set of people who like lies and junk as proved by Alex Jones and LC.

But we have MM who is must be hiding his facts because he seems sure there is a CT on 9/11 that includes fake businesses and bombs.

Lacking facts he tries to make his religion of lies true just because he thinks so, and he talks it up to make it true? Where are your facts MM? Tell me you have more than just talk?

[Miragememories]

Originally Posted by apathoid

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...5c71053c56.gif

Ah, so now skeptics(read: sane, intelligent people) are all bigots? The things you people have to tell yourselves to cling to your fantasies...sheesh. And as long as we're generalizing, I think you have it precisely backwards - the bigots are all on your side. The very worst of humanity(Klan members and assorted neo-Nazis at Stormfront.org) seem to overwhelmingly agree with you about 9/11. We have the engineers, you have the bigots.....embrace them because they're all you have.

Thank you for the comic relief.

I have a deep admiration for real skeptics. Not just because they are good at researching their presentations but because they take the time to look "before they fire". They calmly state their case and do it so well, they don't have to resort to the petty smearing of those they disagree with.

They know that once two sides in a dialogue get overly emotional, the discussion is over and no one is listening.

Only a fool attempts to reason with "deaf ears".

MM

[babazaroni]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

Yes, that's the whole point. Incite people by showing a small portion of the collapse, and don't let them listen. And by no means show them what a real CD sounds like before the collapse. And don't discuss anything about the unorthodox construction. That would distract from the whole purpose of the video.

[Miragememories]

Originally Posted by beachnut

It is hard for no fact CTers to ever find the truth since they are the bigots. Bigots who disdain knowledge and just make up lies. Bigots who will not learn physics or take engineering course so they can help instead of making up lies.

Their is an a set of people who like lies and junk as proved by Alex Jones and LC.

But we have MM who is must be hiding his facts because he seems sure there is a CT on 9/11 that includes fake businesses and bombs.

Lacking facts he tries to make his religion of lies true just because he thinks so, and he talks it up to make it true? Where are your facts MM? Tell me you have more than just talk?

Obviously you've read some of my posts on LC, so you know I am more than just talk.

I prefer to exchange my views with legitimate skeptics and not players with highly bigoted opinions.

MM

[chipmunk stew]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Thank you for the comic relief.

I have a deep admiration for real skeptics. Not just because they are good at researching their presentations but because they take the time to look "before they fire". They calmly state their case and do it so well, they don't have to resort to the petty smearing of those they disagree with.

They know that once two sides in a dialogue get overly emotional, the discussion is over and no one is listening.

Only a fool attempts to reason with "deaf ears".

MM

Who do you consider a real skeptic? Who do you have in mind when you speak of those who look before they fire, etc?

[chipmunk stew]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Thank you for the comic relief.

I have a deep admiration for real skeptics. Not just because they are good at researching their presentations but because they take the time to look "before they fire". They calmly state their case and do it so well, they don't have to resort to the petty smearing of those they disagree with.

They know that once two sides in a dialogue get overly emotional, the discussion is over and no one is listening.

Only a fool attempts to reason with "deaf ears".

MM

Who do you consider a real skeptic? Who do you have in mind when you speak of those who look before they fire, etc?

[Coritani]

I think it'd be good if they broadcasted loose change, then screw loose change shortly after it.

[jon]

Originally Posted by 8den

They are. Theyve made some fantastic documentaries.

I'm going to approach this on three fronts.

1. Copyright.

2. Libel. Remind me, Loose Change 2nd edition includes the Silverstein quote right? Irish Libel law is as vicious as british, they've basically the same law. If some of the smarter souls on this forum could point me out to some of the more libelous comments in loose change that'd be helpful. In ireland you if write something libelous the offended party can sue the news agents that carries the magazine.

3. Factual accuracy.

Could people point me towards some simple bullet points to debunk the film?

Sounds like a good plan. One other thought - would other Irish media be interested in this? I know in the UK the Murdoch media often like to take any excuse to bash our state broadcaster...and it would be easy to use running (or planning on running) LC to make RTE look very silly.

A couple of other things you could think about including when you write to RTE:
- This film will be offensive to many (pissing on graves, etc...)
- As well as debunking the errors in LC, it might add to the impact if you linked to the filmmakers admitting that there are mistakes in that edition of the film.

Good luck

[uk_dave]

Originally Posted by Coritani

I think it'd be good if they broadcasted loose change, then screw loose change shortly after it.

In the interests of balance, they should just broadcast screwloosechange, since it contains both the original and the debunking....

...two birds.....

...one stone.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Obviously you've read some of my posts on LC, so you know I am more than just talk.

((snip))

MM

Not sure, .... it's so hard to keep track of you DA sycophants. Are you the one who once read a book?

[fsol]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Thank you for the comic relief.

I have a deep admiration for real skeptics. Not just because they are good at researching their presentations but because they take the time to look "before they fire". They calmly state their case and do it so well, they don't have to resort to the petty smearing of those they disagree with.

They know that once two sides in a dialogue get overly emotional, the discussion is over and no one is listening.

Only a fool attempts to reason with "deaf ears".

MM

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Probability Irish State TV felt seeing was more important than hearing.

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

MM

Yes, just who would resort to petty smearing? Hmm...

[Alt+F4]

Originally Posted by 8den

I'm being sent a complaint line number. And e-mail address. Not living in Ireland nor paying my licence fee (yes yes very socialist) my contact wryly pointed out that my complaint will not exactly recieve top priority. But I'm hoping to enlist some fellow skeptics who are in the old sod.

My dad was from Roscommon and I still have lots of cousins there. Post the email address and I'm sure they would be willing to send an email or two.

[Foolmewunz]

Just a thought - - NYPD is rather renowned for being just about an Irish-American fraternity.

Does anyone have any active police connections in New York? I'd imagine a letter from the PBA (or if there's a NYPD 911 Memorial committee or something like that) would carry some weight.

[jhunter1163]

Gravy probably does, and he's quite eloquent. If he'd be willing to throw his weight behind this, it would be very helpful.

[Gravy]

If anyone does write (and I'd like to myself), you may want to direct the addressee to page 1, and pages 13-22 of "Loose Change Creators Speak." Avery & co. disparage, lie to, mock, and dismiss victims of 9/11.

http://www.911myths.com/LooseChangeCreatorsSpeak.pdf

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

I prefer to exchange my views with legitimate skeptics and not players with highly bigoted opinions.

MM

So now MM is just the latest troofer to have all the info needed to blow the whole conspiracy wide open, but won't share it w/ us because we upset his fragile ego.

[Gravy]

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

Gravy probably does, and he's quite eloquent. If he'd be willing to throw his weight behind this, it would be very helpful.

I don't have NYPD connections, and I wouldn't ask anyone in uniform to sit through Loose Change in order to get their opinon.

I suggest not restricting communications to a "complaint department." If executives and programming directors can be contacted, they might be more inclined to do something about it. The words "negative publicity," "gets no claims right," "deliberately left errors in," and "you will be supporting a demonstrably false work that disparages the victims of 9/11" come to mind.

[Brainster]

I have contacted two influential Irish bloggers to seek their assistance on this, Richard Delevan and Mick Fealty (of Slugger O'Toole). I'll let you know if they respond.

[Coritani]

Originally Posted by Gravy

I don't have NYPD connections, and I wouldn't ask anyone in uniform to sit through Loose Change in order to get their opinon.

I suggest not restricting communications to a "complaint department." If executives and programming directors can be contacted, they might be more inclined to do something about it. The words "negative publicity," "gets no claims right," "deliberately left errors in," and "you will be supporting a demonstrably false work that disparages the victims of 9/11" come to mind.

Why can't you just put another one of your left handed whammy hexes on them?

[geni]

Originally Posted by jon

You'd imagine they'd have already looked into this - but you could mention that there's a lot of copyrighted material in LC, mostly used without clearance from the rights holders, IIRC. Does Ireland have a 'fair use' law, or not?

They went for the UK system with it's hyper-restictive fair dealing.

[Architect]

So, like, will the CTers be having Father Dugald present their case - or will it be Jones, aka Father Jack?


Judy Wood as Mrs. Doyle. I can see it now.....




....but would it make Gravy Bishop Brennan then?

[jon]

This link says they *purchased* LC, as in *paid money* for it. Gah.

In as much as there's a strategy, let me know if/when it's useful to stir up publicity in the UK - will see if I can persuade other bloggers here to write about it (and will post it on my blog, so the 0.5 daily readers can learn about it

[jon]

Originally Posted by geni

They went for the UK system with it's hyper-restictive fair dealing.

Thanks - good to know we could spread our silly laws around a bit

[geni]

Originally Posted by jon

Thanks - good to know we could spread our silly laws around a bit

Most places once occupied by britian adopted english common law and the like for the basis of their legal system. Things tend to diverge from there (although Israel hasn't updated it's copyright law properly with some rather anoying results). The US is so different in the area of copyright because it split off before copyright got going.

[jon]

Originally Posted by geni

Most places once occupied by britian adopted english common law and the like for the basis of their legal system. Things tend to diverge from there (although Israel hasn't updated it's copyright law properly with some rather anoying results). The US is so different in the area of copyright because it split off before copyright got going.

that's interesting re. differences in copyright law - thanks

[boloboffin]

Originally Posted by Architect

So, like, will the CTers be having Father Dugald present their case - or will it be Jones, aka Father Jack?


Judy Wood as Mrs. Doyle. I can see it now.....




....but would it make Gravy Bishop Brennan then?

No, no, the Sara narrator from 9/11 Mysteries is Mrs. Doyle.

"No, go on. Clunkity clunkity clunkity clunkity...."

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

It's oh so hard for non-bigots to watch the rapid symmetrical collapse videos of WTC7 and think; oh right, that's the way a debris and fire damaged building would likely fall, all at once, nice and tidy like..ya right.

Hello.

May I ask your level of expertise and how you might be qualified to evaluate the incident?

[DarkMagician]

Nevermind