Happy Dutch Kinderen

Tony · 20th February 2007, 06:11 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm

Quote:

Dutch children have been rated the most fortunate children in Europe. Their parents go out of their way to please them, and teachers expect less of them than some of their European counterparts.

Dutch society is very child-centred
The Netherlands has come top of a league table for child well-being across 21 industrialised countries.

The study by the UN children's organisation, Unicef, looked at relative poverty, educational and health standards, sexual behaviour and the children's relationship with friends and parents.

"The Netherlands has always been a very child-centred society," says Paul Vangeert, professor of developmental psychology at the University of Groningen. "In particular, there is a lot of focus on young children."

He says he is not surprised by the report. "On the one hand you have objective indicators in the report like health, income and education. The Netherlands is a very rich country. On the other hand, and perhaps more importantly, are the subjective indicators, young people's own subjective sense of well-being."

So much for the myth that liberalism is anti-family.

steverino · 20th February 2007, 06:22 PM

Laura Vos, a 16-year-old schoolgirl from Amsterdam agrees.

"In this country, it's very free, you can do anything you want," she told the BBC's Newsnight programme. "You can smoke at 16..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Life in the Netherlands is so ideal, smokers there don't even get cancer.

Freddy · 20th February 2007, 07:03 PM

While I don't dispute the conclusion based on the material criteria (poverty, heath, etc.), I have a couple bones to pick when it comes to the "children's subjective sense of well being." For one thing, if teenagers don't think their parents are too strict, then their parents probably are not strict enough. Is the extent to which parents let their kids do whatever they want supposed to be a measure of the children's well-being? That is patently absurd. They are the child and you are the parent because you know what's good for them better than they do. Being too strict isn't good either, but if your kid talks about how awesome it is that he can do whatever he wants (like smoke), then you have failed as a parent, and your kid is decidedly not better off for it. Come on. There is a happy medium to be found here.

Secondly, how is expecting less of children better for their well being? I can see how expecting far too much can be bad for them, but expecting too little is equally bad, in my opinion.

gtc · 20th February 2007, 10:46 PM

Interesting discussion of concept of the relative poverty measure usedhere.

Skeptic · 21st February 2007, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tony

So much for the myth that liberalism is anti-family.

Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier.

If this article is accurate, and if "liberalism" (whatever exactly that is) is the cause, it proves liberalism is anti-family, or at least anti-children.

What bothers me more than the facts themselves is the approving tone of the article. Is it really the case that, in Europe, children's well-being is determined by the extent to which parents cater to their every whim and teachers don't demand anything of them?

TragicMonkey · 21st February 2007, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Freddy

They are the child and you are the parent because you know what's good for them better than they do.

No, you're the parent because you either had sex with someone and created a child, or else you adopted one. Neither act conveys good parenting skills automatically.

CFLarsen · 21st February 2007, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier.

If this article is accurate, and if "liberalism" (whatever exactly that is) is the cause, it proves liberalism is anti-family, or at least anti-children.

What bothers me more than the facts themselves is the approving tone of the article. Is it really the case that, in Europe, children's well-being is determined by the extent to which parents cater to their every whim and teachers don't demand anything of them?

Read the article:

Quote:

The study by the UN children's organisation, Unicef, looked at relative poverty, educational and health standards, sexual behaviour and the children's relationship with friends and parents.

Furthermore, here's a few things you didn't know:

"The Netherlands" != "Europe".

"Less pressure" != "No pressure".

Gurdur · 21st February 2007, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier.

You fascinate me. Do you actually have any proof at all that Dutch children are spoilt rotten and kept ignorant, as you try claiming the article says so, or are you only senselessly ranting?

Quote:

What bothers me more than the facts themselves is the approving tone of the article. Is it really the case that, in Europe, children's well-being is determined by the extent to which parents cater to their every whim and teachers don't demand anything of them?

Tell me,

, do you have any proof at all for your assertions, and why do you apparently think that Denmark equals Europe? Or was it only a senseless, bigoted rant of yours?

Please try to keep things on-track without personalizing it. Thanks.

Posted By:jmercer

Darat · 21st February 2007, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier.

...snip...

No - in terms of education the report puts them at 6 in the league table. (For educational achievement it's slightly higher at 5.)

The countries higher then the Netherlands are Belgium, Canada, Poland, Finland & Sweden. If you are interested the USA is at position 14, that's 8 below the Netherlands.

Darat · 21st February 2007, 03:20 AM

For a British take on the report's findings see: Britain Best Place to be a child!

CFLarsen · 21st February 2007, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gurdur

You fascinate me. Do you actually have any proof at all that Dutch children are spoilt rotten and kept ignorant, as you try claiming the article says so, or are you only senselessly ranting?

Tell me,

, do you have any proof at all for your assertions, and why do you apparently think that Denmark equals Europe? Or was it only a senseless, bigoted rant of yours?

This will clarify a lot:

AWPrime · 21st February 2007, 03:51 AM

Well as a citizen of the Netherlands, I do admit that some children could use some good old fashion discipline.

ponderingturtle · 21st February 2007, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

Laura Vos, a 16-year-old schoolgirl from Amsterdam agrees.

"In this country, it's very free, you can do anything you want," she told the BBC's Newsnight programme. "You can smoke at 16..."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Life in the Netherlands is so ideal, smokers there don't even get cancer.

Of course, they are smoking pot not tobacco

ponderingturtle · 21st February 2007, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Read the article:

Furthermore, here's a few things you didn't know:

"The Netherlands" != "Europe".

"Less pressure" != "No pressure".

Look if there are not enough suicideds over failed tests there is not enough pressure on kids.

LeFevre · 21st February 2007, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gurdur

You fascinate me. Do you actually have any proof at all that Dutch children are spoilt rotten and kept ignorant, as you try claiming the article says so, or are you only senselessly ranting?

Tell me,

, do you have any proof at all for your assertions, and why do you apparently think that Denmark equals Europe? Or was it only a senseless, bigoted rant of yours?

I reported this post.

Freddy · 21st February 2007, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

No, you're the parent because you either had sex with someone and created a child, or else you adopted one. Neither act conveys good parenting skills automatically.

Fair enough. You're supposed to know better than your children what's good for them. It's a necessary condition of being a good parent. You are right of course that some parents are bad parents. It doesn't really affect my overall point, though.

Charlie Monoxide · 21st February 2007, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

This will clarify a lot:

http://www.skepticreport.com/images/...gtoamerica.jpg

!cihparg ynnuf yreV

edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC

Darat · 21st February 2007, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

!cihparg ynnuf yreV

edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC

FYI - [reverse]Because I'm too lazy :D[/reverse]

Because I'm too lazy

steverino · 21st February 2007, 08:29 AM

Larsen- Cute map of the world. I admit that most Americans are ignorant of geography and political nuance. The one thing I would correct is the "Mexico" slogan, about smelly people with big hats. For better or worse, America feels the pain of, and is sympathetic toward, the poor Mexican, from both sides of the political aisle here.

Darth Rotor · 21st February 2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

!cihparg ynnuf yreV

edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC

As usual, Claus gets it wrong. The land marked "Here be something else" is marked on American maps as "Here be kangaroos."

Silly Claus!

DR

CFLarsen · 21st February 2007, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

Larsen- Cute map of the world. I admit that most Americans are ignorant of geography and political nuance. The one thing I would correct is the "Mexico" slogan, about smelly people with big hats. For better or worse, America feels the pain of, and is sympathetic toward, the poor Mexican, from both sides of the political aisle here.

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

As usual, Claus gets it wrong. The land marked "Here be something else" is marked on American maps as "Here be kangaroos."

Silly Claus!

DR

I didn't make the drawing. It's been circulating for years.

Tony · 21st February 2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier.

The article says nothing of the sort. You're seeing things.

Chaos · 21st February 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Tony

The article says nothing of the sort. You're seeing things.

Oh, come on, don´t confuse that poor man by suggesting that the world - especially Europe - is not some crude black-and-white sketch out of somebody´s warped imagination.

TragicMonkey · 21st February 2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

I didn't make the drawing. It's been circulating for years.

I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters.

Darth Rotor · 21st February 2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters.

Does this TSOSS have enough mass to generate an independent gravitational field, or does it just suck?

DR

CFLarsen · 21st February 2007, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters.

Get a sense of humor.

TragicMonkey · 21st February 2007, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Get a sense of humor.

There's a log in your eye.

HarryKeogh · 21st February 2007, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters.

It's there. It's the area labelled "Here there be one-trick ponies who can give it but can't take it".

You have to squint to find it though. Big ego...small person.

20th February 2007, 06:11 PM	#1
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,767	Happy Dutch Kinderen http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360517.stm Quote: Dutch children have been rated the most fortunate children in Europe. Their parents go out of their way to please them, and teachers expect less of them than some of their European counterparts. Dutch society is very child-centred The Netherlands has come top of a league table for child well-being across 21 industrialised countries. The study by the UN children's organisation, Unicef, looked at relative poverty, educational and health standards, sexual behaviour and the children's relationship with friends and parents. "The Netherlands has always been a very child-centred society," says Paul Vangeert, professor of developmental psychology at the University of Groningen. "In particular, there is a lot of focus on young children." He says he is not surprised by the report. "On the one hand you have objective indicators in the report like health, income and education. The Netherlands is a very rich country. On the other hand, and perhaps more importantly, are the subjective indicators, young people's own subjective sense of well-being." So much for the myth that liberalism is anti-family.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

20th February 2007, 06:22 PM	#2
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Laura Vos, a 16-year-old schoolgirl from Amsterdam agrees. "In this country, it's very free, you can do anything you want," she told the BBC's Newsnight programme. "You can smoke at 16..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life in the Netherlands is so ideal, smokers there don't even get cancer.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

21st February 2007, 12:28 AM	#5
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by Tony So much for the myth that liberalism is anti-family. Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier. If this article is accurate, and if "liberalism" (whatever exactly that is) is the cause, it proves liberalism is anti-family, or at least anti-children. What bothers me more than the facts themselves is the approving tone of the article. Is it really the case that, in Europe, children's well-being is determined by the extent to which parents cater to their every whim and teachers don't demand anything of them?
	Last edited by Skeptic; 21st February 2007 at 12:32 AM.

21st February 2007, 02:42 AM	#6
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,108	Originally Posted by Freddy They are the child and you are the parent because you know what's good for them better than they do. No, you're the parent because you either had sex with someone and created a child, or else you adopted one. Neither act conveys good parenting skills automatically.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

21st February 2007, 02:51 AM	#7
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Skeptic Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier. If this article is accurate, and if "liberalism" (whatever exactly that is) is the cause, it proves liberalism is anti-family, or at least anti-children. What bothers me more than the facts themselves is the approving tone of the article. Is it really the case that, in Europe, children's well-being is determined by the extent to which parents cater to their every whim and teachers don't demand anything of them? Read the article: Quote: The study by the UN children's organisation, Unicef, looked at relative poverty, educational and health standards, sexual behaviour and the children's relationship with friends and parents. Furthermore, here's a few things you didn't know: "The Netherlands" != "Europe". "Less pressure" != "No pressure".
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

20th February 2007, 07:03 PM	#3
Freddy Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 1,031	While I don't dispute the conclusion based on the material criteria (poverty, heath, etc.), I have a couple bones to pick when it comes to the "children's subjective sense of well being." For one thing, if teenagers don't think their parents are too strict, then their parents probably are not strict enough. Is the extent to which parents let their kids do whatever they want supposed to be a measure of the children's well-being? That is patently absurd. They are the child and you are the parent because you know what's good for them better than they do. Being too strict isn't good either, but if your kid talks about how awesome it is that he can do whatever he wants (like smoke), then you have failed as a parent, and your kid is decidedly not better off for it. Come on. There is a happy medium to be found here. Secondly, how is expecting less of children better for their well being? I can see how expecting far too much can be bad for them, but expecting too little is equally bad, in my opinion.

20th February 2007, 10:46 PM	#4
gtc Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: the downunderverse Posts: 7,114	Interesting discussion of concept of the relative poverty measure usedhere.

21st February 2007, 03:17 AM	#9
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,793	Originally Posted by Skeptic Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier. ...snip... No - in terms of education the report puts them at 6 in the league table. (For educational achievement it's slightly higher at 5.) The countries higher then the Netherlands are Belgium, Canada, Poland, Finland & Sweden. If you are interested the USA is at position 14, that's 8 below the Netherlands.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

21st February 2007, 03:20 AM	#10
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,793	For a British take on the report's findings see: Britain Best Place to be a child!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

21st February 2007, 03:25 AM	#11
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Gurdur You fascinate me. Do you actually have any proof at all that Dutch children are spoilt rotten and kept ignorant, as you try claiming the article says so, or are you only senselessly ranting? Tell me, , do you have any proof at all for your assertions, and why do you apparently think that Denmark equals Europe? Or was it only a senseless, bigoted rant of yours? This will clarify a lot:
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

21st February 2007, 03:51 AM	#12
AWPrime Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,929	Well as a citizen of the Netherlands, I do admit that some children could use some good old fashion discipline.
AWPrime Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,929	__________________ Sir Arthur C. Clarke - "Any sufficiently advanced technology, to the uninformed observer, is indistinguishable from magic." c4ts - "Jesus loves the little children, Nice and fat and honey roasted..." Lancastic = Demonstrative of outstanding personal effort in the exposing of frauds. Rob Lister - "The enemy of my enemy probably tastes yummy. "

21st February 2007, 04:15 AM	#13
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by steverino Laura Vos, a 16-year-old schoolgirl from Amsterdam agrees. "In this country, it's very free, you can do anything you want," she told the BBC's Newsnight programme. "You can smoke at 16..." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life in the Netherlands is so ideal, smokers there don't even get cancer. Of course, they are smoking pot not tobacco
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

21st February 2007, 04:17 AM	#14
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,432	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Read the article: Furthermore, here's a few things you didn't know: "The Netherlands" != "Europe". "Less pressure" != "No pressure". Look if there are not enough suicideds over failed tests there is not enough pressure on kids.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

21st February 2007, 05:41 AM	#15
LeFevre Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: JREF knows and I drink kool-aid Posts: 1,719	Originally Posted by Gurdur You fascinate me. Do you actually have any proof at all that Dutch children are spoilt rotten and kept ignorant, as you try claiming the article says so, or are you only senselessly ranting? Tell me, , do you have any proof at all for your assertions, and why do you apparently think that Denmark equals Europe? Or was it only a senseless, bigoted rant of yours? I reported this post.
	__________________ U.S.L.S. (1997-2009) Ask me about Skinnematics! I won't participate, but I'll eat copporn, and watch. - TobiasTheCommie Taisetsu na mono protect my balls!

21st February 2007, 07:59 AM	#16
Freddy Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 1,031	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey No, you're the parent because you either had sex with someone and created a child, or else you adopted one. Neither act conveys good parenting skills automatically. Fair enough. You're supposed to know better than your children what's good for them. It's a necessary condition of being a good parent. You are right of course that some parents are bad parents. It doesn't really affect my overall point, though.

21st February 2007, 08:17 AM	#17
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Originally Posted by CFLarsen This will clarify a lot: http://www.skepticreport.com/images/...gtoamerica.jpg !cihparg ynnuf yreV edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

21st February 2007, 08:23 AM	#18
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,793	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide !cihparg ynnuf yreV edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC FYI - [reverse]Because I'm too lazy :D[/reverse] Because I'm too lazy
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

21st February 2007, 08:29 AM	#19
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Larsen- Cute map of the world. I admit that most Americans are ignorant of geography and political nuance. The one thing I would correct is the "Mexico" slogan, about smelly people with big hats. For better or worse, America feels the pain of, and is sympathetic toward, the poor Mexican, from both sides of the political aisle here.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

21st February 2007, 08:41 AM	#20
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,265	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide !cihparg ynnuf yreV edixonoM (?he ,drawkcab) eilrahC As usual, Claus gets it wrong. The land marked "Here be something else" is marked on American maps as "Here be kangaroos." Silly Claus! DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

21st February 2007, 08:55 AM	#21
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by steverino Larsen- Cute map of the world. I admit that most Americans are ignorant of geography and political nuance. The one thing I would correct is the "Mexico" slogan, about smelly people with big hats. For better or worse, America feels the pain of, and is sympathetic toward, the poor Mexican, from both sides of the political aisle here. Originally Posted by Darth Rotor As usual, Claus gets it wrong. The land marked "Here be something else" is marked on American maps as "Here be kangaroos." Silly Claus! DR I didn't make the drawing. It's been circulating for years.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

21st February 2007, 10:24 AM	#22
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,767	Originally Posted by Skeptic Actually, this article seems to say that the Dutch abdicated their duty to build their children's character and supply them with an education, and prefer to just spoil them rotten and keep them ignorant, since that is (in the short run) easier. The article says nothing of the sort. You're seeing things.
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

21st February 2007, 11:31 AM	#23
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,779	Originally Posted by Tony The article says nothing of the sort. You're seeing things. Oh, come on, don´t confuse that poor man by suggesting that the world - especially Europe - is not some crude black-and-white sketch out of somebody´s warped imagination.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

21st February 2007, 01:19 PM	#24
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,108	Originally Posted by CFLarsen I didn't make the drawing. It's been circulating for years. I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

21st February 2007, 01:28 PM	#25
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,265	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters. Does this TSOSS have enough mass to generate an independent gravitational field, or does it just suck? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

21st February 2007, 01:30 PM	#26
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters. Get a sense of humor.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

21st February 2007, 01:43 PM	#27
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,108	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Get a sense of humor. There's a log in your eye.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

21st February 2007, 01:49 PM	#28
HarryKeogh Catholic School Survivor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 11,342	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I was wondering where "Claus's tremendous sense of self-satisfaction" would be on that map, then I realized the map would have to be a lot larger. According to leading scientists, Claus's TSOSS is larger than most galactic clusters. It's there. It's the area labelled "Here there be one-trick ponies who can give it but can't take it". You have to squint to find it though. Big ego...small person.