So I had an unoriginal idea...the deadman's code

MondoAtheist · 28th February 2007, 08:39 AM

I had spoken a lot with my mother, about how much I really disapproved of Psychics. And my mother at one time in her life believed psychics were real. Which is okay, my father had died and she was alone with 3 kids. I think all she wanted was to know she would be okay, and he were okay. 21 years after my father's death she seems to no longer believe in Psychics. And we like to watch Lisa Williams, and other TV Psychics and try to figure out where they missed and their methods they used.

I saw an episode of Lisa Williams where she says; "I'm getting the name Ellen." Which sort of shocked me, if she just met these folks, how did she know the name Ellen, she didn't even bother to guess before that. So I assume Hot-reading was involved and she or one of the employee's of the show found/searched for this information prior to the show airing sometime after the interview was scheduled.

So I told my mother, if I died, I'd want her to try to get one of these psychics to talk to me. And I knew Houdini had a codeword he used with his wife. And well, I figure I could make a very simple codeword for her. But not only that, but I would record me saying the codeword along with a reason behind the codeword, why it was special between us two and if the codeword was not mentioned by the psychic how I would have or how I currently felt about it.

I would also have a website setup for this, which doesn't have robots.txt enabled, hosted on a website with an awkward name and other things to make it remain secret yet public when the time is right. I figure if the video were recorded and my mother could get on Montell's show or some News Show where they could show it. I'd also give the date of when the video was recorded and I could even hold up a newspaper, or go to google news and show that page to verify the date if necessary(in the video). Not sure why, but just for insurance I guess.

My code is simply 1 word, and if it were said my mother would know it was me immediately. It's a word my father used to say all the time about me, before he died. It's not an easy thing to guess that's for sure, but it's very simple.

I think the person who goes to medium/psychic would have to pretend a code doesn't exist, yet keep hinting, "is there more?" or something of the sort.

Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this? Any ideas, and I hope maybe other people will try this also, or a plan just like it. Maybe one of us could get this to work, just maybe.

Fnord · 28th February 2007, 09:03 AM

The only flaws I see are:

1) You are encouraging your mother to seek out the counsel of a "psychic" during a time of grief. It may be too much for her to bear.

2) A televised psychic encounter is usually edited to show more hits for the psychic. Your mother's attempts to draw out the correct response might be too obvious to make it to broadcast.

3) Let's say your code phrase was "THX1138." The psychic would declare a hit if he/she said that she sensed the presence of a bald man, since the title character of the movie "THX1138" was bald.

MondoAtheist · 28th February 2007, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Fnord

The only flaws I see are:

1) You are encouraging your mother to seek out the counsel of a "psychic" during a time of grief. It may be too much for her to bear.

2) A televised psychic encounter is usually edited to show more hits for the psychic. Your mother's attempts to draw out the correct response might be too obvious to make it to broadcast.

3) Let's say your code phrase was "THX1138." The psychic would declare a hit if he/she said that she sensed the presence of a bald man, since the title character of the movie "THX1138" was bald.

I think number 1 and 2 are the mains ones that have me worried also. Number 3 I don't see happening with my code word. Btw, that was a pretty cool movie.

1 is honestly what worries me the most, while 2 is what I think will be the hardest to get around. That's why I'm thinking a news show, but how to get her involved in it and have them be willing to maybe setup a psychic. I don't know if that's completely possible. Yeah, 2 is what makes this hard to do for sure. That's why I need to think of a better way to implement this.

I think my mother is a pretty solid lady. She's been through more than anyone really should go through. And I'd really really hate for her to have to do this, so it's what saddens me the most when I think about this.

Orangutan · 28th February 2007, 09:14 AM

Psychic: Well you see, priorities change on the other side, Money doesn't matter, the health of the person doesn't matter, sometime you will not be able to remember things like you did here on earth, over there you are a spirit who's experiences in life shape the way they you feel on the other side, Thats why I can convey to you that he loved you and that he knows you will be OK. I can feel his love and his feelings sometimes activate my own memories to help me get a message to you but specific words or phrases may be hard to convey unless I have had experience already of those things. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

Kopji · 28th February 2007, 09:17 AM

'Belief' is considered a virtue by many people, or something like a gift that is passed on. A secret word is a secret that many would consider a virtue to tell if it 'helped' people.

If a psychic were to come up with your secret word, I would be faced with choosing between believing that you had really spoken from beyond the grave - or that perhaps a well meaning person found it out and passed it on.

The latter possibility seems more likely.

Another unrelated question. IMHO the very concept of a psychic has an element of cruelty in it. A child could not communicate with a parent directly, only through another with a 'gift'. You could not speak to ones you loved, except through some stranger... And all you could give was 'I'm getting an M'.

Fnord · 28th February 2007, 09:18 AM

Blah Blah Blah ... you say your loved one never spoke a word of English? That doesn't matter, because since the beings on the other side exist as spirits, it is the true spirit of the message that you hear ... Blah Blah Blah ...

Garrette · 28th February 2007, 09:25 AM

Perhaps you have a friend (or your mother has a friend) who could visit the psychic on your mother's behalf, being upfront with the psychic about the intent and the fact that it is you they want to contact. The friend could report any words back to your mother for verification. This would avoid any fishing since the friend would not know the word itself, and would also avoid the grief to your mother.

chracatoa · 28th February 2007, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this?

Well, for starters you would have to die...

CLD · 28th February 2007, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

My code is simply 1 word, and if it were said my mother would know it was me immediately. It's a word my father used to say all the time about me, before he died. It's not an easy thing to guess that's for sure, but it's very simple.

If your code is a word someone used to vocalize "all the time" about you, it is possible that a number of people heard it, heard of it secondhand, etc. Better to pick a word at random that has no personal meaning and is known only to you, seal it in an envelope to be opened by your Mom after your death.

Aussie Thinker · 28th February 2007, 02:53 PM

Only problem I see is you have to die... plus what Orangutan said !

Reno · 28th February 2007, 03:21 PM

Mondo, I hope it's a helluva long time before your mother has to face the grief ahead.

What do you think about maybe introducing her - gradually - to this forum? There are some really nice people here and it may help her a bit to be able to talk about stuff with strangers that she finds difficult to talk with friends or relatives about.

Babbylonian · 28th February 2007, 03:23 PM

Mondo, you noted in the OP that neither you nor your mother currently believe in psychics. Further, since you're presumably not a "famous" person, psychics aren't going to have a specific interest in pretending to contact you (as opposed to Houdini who would have been, and was after his passing, prime fodder for fakes). So, whatever your procedure, the purpose of doing this is unclear. The only certain outcome is having your mother more fixated on your untimely death. It further makes her think about you predeceasing her while you're still around.

The best-case scenario might be convincing a very small number (if that - we've all seen how much evidence these people can ignore) of believers that a particular psychic is a fraud. Is that really worth being so morbid while you're alive and potentially increasing your mother's grief if you die?

If you feel you simply must do something like this, why not ask your mother to come up with such a code? While the topic would still be morbid (and nothing, beyond perhaps a living will/advance directive, I'd want to regularly discuss with my parents), I've found that parents are usually a lot more comfortable thinking about and discussing their own deaths instead of those of their children.

The Atheist · 28th February 2007, 04:24 PM

Sorry mate, but I think you're on a sure loser here.

As several people have pointed out, psychics will dream up a plausible excuse and nobody's going to change their minds as a result of what they hear, either way. No matter how well you hide the code word, someone may find out about it and then where does it go? The "psychic" would be strengthened and your mother possibly shattered by it.

I applaud your intentions, but I hope you can find projects more worthy of your time.

Reno's suggestion is an excellent one - do talk to your mom about it - I bet people would love to see here here. I certainly would, for one.

MondoAtheist · 28th February 2007, 07:18 PM

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. I was just trying to figure a way for it to possibly work. So many outs on this, and it does seem hard to even get implemented in the first place. Which is a real bummer. Maybe one day we will be able to figure out a real way to prove/disprove psychics. Knowing what it did to my mother hurt me so much growing up. I would just like to figure out a way to solve all this.

About getting my mother on here. I'm hoping so. She's really falling for Randi, and all that jazz. I believe she even emailed JeffWagg a bit ago, not sure what was said though. But I think if I could get involved in this it would be really cool. Anyways guys/gals, thanks for hearing me out on yet another silly idea. But I am sure we will be able to figure out this mystery one day.

The code is a name my father used to call me before he died. Not many people know of it, except those who have passed away already, and my mother.

The Atheist · 28th February 2007, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. I was just trying to figure a way for it to possibly work. So many outs on this, and it does seem hard to even get implemented in the first place. Which is a real bummer. Maybe one day we will be able to figure out a real way to prove/disprove psychics. Knowing what it did to my mother hurt me so much growing up. I would just like to figure out a way to solve all this.

I don't blame you at all for feeling like that, but it's just that they're so slimy that it might backfire, meaning you've wasted a load of time and effort.

It's not so much that it a bad idea as it's a target which is fast-moving and nearly impossible to score a hit on. Randi's been trying for decades, yet Sylvia Browne is as strong as ever.

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

About getting my mother on here. I'm hoping so. She's really falling for Randi, and all that jazz.

Crikey! Is he single???

Kage · 1st March 2007, 10:56 AM

can't you go on montel and ask her to contact your dad?

c4ts · 2nd March 2007, 09:30 AM

Might work if you don't mention anything about a codeword to the psychic. Then again, a cold reading is like an unfair version of 20 questions (he can use way more than 20 guesses! More than enough to try one letter at a time until the word is spelled out...), and there's always the possibility the medium could get it with shotgun approaches.

Another flaw is research, or possibly a hot reading. She can use that to determine your wife had a codeword in the first place, and suddenly the guesses become much more accurate.

blutoski · 3rd March 2007, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this? Any ideas, and I hope maybe other people will try this also, or a plan just like it. Maybe one of us could get this to work, just maybe.

The problem that materialized in the Houdini case was that his widow told people what the secret word was.

blutoski · 3rd March 2007, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by MondoAtheist

The code is a name my father used to call me before he died. Not many people know of it, except those who have passed away already, and my mother.

I think you'll have to think about how 'secret' this word will be, if you're posting hints about it on the Internet.

28th February 2007, 08:39 AM	#1
MondoAtheist Thinker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brentwood Posts: 179	So I had an unoriginal idea...the deadman's code I had spoken a lot with my mother, about how much I really disapproved of Psychics. And my mother at one time in her life believed psychics were real. Which is okay, my father had died and she was alone with 3 kids. I think all she wanted was to know she would be okay, and he were okay. 21 years after my father's death she seems to no longer believe in Psychics. And we like to watch Lisa Williams, and other TV Psychics and try to figure out where they missed and their methods they used. I saw an episode of Lisa Williams where she says; "I'm getting the name Ellen." Which sort of shocked me, if she just met these folks, how did she know the name Ellen, she didn't even bother to guess before that. So I assume Hot-reading was involved and she or one of the employee's of the show found/searched for this information prior to the show airing sometime after the interview was scheduled. So I told my mother, if I died, I'd want her to try to get one of these psychics to talk to me. And I knew Houdini had a codeword he used with his wife. And well, I figure I could make a very simple codeword for her. But not only that, but I would record me saying the codeword along with a reason behind the codeword, why it was special between us two and if the codeword was not mentioned by the psychic how I would have or how I currently felt about it. I would also have a website setup for this, which doesn't have robots.txt enabled, hosted on a website with an awkward name and other things to make it remain secret yet public when the time is right. I figure if the video were recorded and my mother could get on Montell's show or some News Show where they could show it. I'd also give the date of when the video was recorded and I could even hold up a newspaper, or go to google news and show that page to verify the date if necessary(in the video). Not sure why, but just for insurance I guess. My code is simply 1 word, and if it were said my mother would know it was me immediately. It's a word my father used to say all the time about me, before he died. It's not an easy thing to guess that's for sure, but it's very simple. I think the person who goes to medium/psychic would have to pretend a code doesn't exist, yet keep hinting, "is there more?" or something of the sort. Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this? Any ideas, and I hope maybe other people will try this also, or a plan just like it. Maybe one of us could get this to work, just maybe.
	__________________ "We're all made of Star stuff." - Carl Sagan

28th February 2007, 09:03 AM	#2
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	The only flaws I see are: 1) You are encouraging your mother to seek out the counsel of a "psychic" during a time of grief. It may be too much for her to bear. 2) A televised psychic encounter is usually edited to show more hits for the psychic. Your mother's attempts to draw out the correct response might be too obvious to make it to broadcast. 3) Let's say your code phrase was "THX1138." The psychic would declare a hit if he/she said that she sensed the presence of a bald man, since the title character of the movie "THX1138" was bald.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

28th February 2007, 09:10 AM	#3
MondoAtheist Thinker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brentwood Posts: 179	Originally Posted by Fnord The only flaws I see are: 1) You are encouraging your mother to seek out the counsel of a "psychic" during a time of grief. It may be too much for her to bear. 2) A televised psychic encounter is usually edited to show more hits for the psychic. Your mother's attempts to draw out the correct response might be too obvious to make it to broadcast. 3) Let's say your code phrase was "THX1138." The psychic would declare a hit if he/she said that she sensed the presence of a bald man, since the title character of the movie "THX1138" was bald. I think number 1 and 2 are the mains ones that have me worried also. Number 3 I don't see happening with my code word. Btw, that was a pretty cool movie. 1 is honestly what worries me the most, while 2 is what I think will be the hardest to get around. That's why I'm thinking a news show, but how to get her involved in it and have them be willing to maybe setup a psychic. I don't know if that's completely possible. Yeah, 2 is what makes this hard to do for sure. That's why I need to think of a better way to implement this. I think my mother is a pretty solid lady. She's been through more than anyone really should go through. And I'd really really hate for her to have to do this, so it's what saddens me the most when I think about this.
	__________________ "We're all made of Star stuff." - Carl Sagan

28th February 2007, 09:18 AM	#6
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Blah Blah Blah ... you say your loved one never spoke a word of English? That doesn't matter, because since the beings on the other side exist as spirits, it is the true spirit of the message that you hear ... Blah Blah Blah ...
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

28th February 2007, 09:25 AM	#7
Garrette Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 10,553	Perhaps you have a friend (or your mother has a friend) who could visit the psychic on your mother's behalf, being upfront with the psychic about the intent and the fact that it is you they want to contact. The friend could report any words back to your mother for verification. This would avoid any fishing since the friend would not know the word itself, and would also avoid the grief to your mother.
	__________________ My kids still love me.

28th February 2007, 09:14 AM	#4
Orangutan Graduate Poster Tagger Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Florida. Posts: 1,175	Psychic: Well you see, priorities change on the other side, Money doesn't matter, the health of the person doesn't matter, sometime you will not be able to remember things like you did here on earth, over there you are a spirit who's experiences in life shape the way they you feel on the other side, Thats why I can convey to you that he loved you and that he knows you will be OK. I can feel his love and his feelings sometimes activate my own memories to help me get a message to you but specific words or phrases may be hard to convey unless I have had experience already of those things. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.

28th February 2007, 09:17 AM	#5
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	'Belief' is considered a virtue by many people, or something like a gift that is passed on. A secret word is a secret that many would consider a virtue to tell if it 'helped' people. If a psychic were to come up with your secret word, I would be faced with choosing between believing that you had really spoken from beyond the grave - or that perhaps a well meaning person found it out and passed it on. The latter possibility seems more likely. Another unrelated question. IMHO the very concept of a psychic has an element of cruelty in it. A child could not communicate with a parent directly, only through another with a 'gift'. You could not speak to ones you loved, except through some stranger... And all you could give was 'I'm getting an M'.

28th February 2007, 09:27 AM	#8
chracatoa Scholar Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Brazil Posts: 109	Originally Posted by MondoAtheist Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this? Well, for starters you would have to die...

28th February 2007, 11:55 AM	#9
CLD Muse Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 789	Originally Posted by MondoAtheist My code is simply 1 word, and if it were said my mother would know it was me immediately. It's a word my father used to say all the time about me, before he died. It's not an easy thing to guess that's for sure, but it's very simple. If your code is a word someone used to vocalize "all the time" about you, it is possible that a number of people heard it, heard of it secondhand, etc. Better to pick a word at random that has no personal meaning and is known only to you, seal it in an envelope to be opened by your Mom after your death.
CLD Muse Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 789

28th February 2007, 02:53 PM	#10
Aussie Thinker Muse Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 873	Only problem I see is you have to die... plus what Orangutan said !
Aussie Thinker Muse Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 873

28th February 2007, 03:21 PM	#11
Reno Inquisitor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland, West Coast Posts: 1,234	Mondo, I hope it's a helluva long time before your mother has to face the grief ahead. What do you think about maybe introducing her - gradually - to this forum? There are some really nice people here and it may help her a bit to be able to talk about stuff with strangers that she finds difficult to talk with friends or relatives about.
	__________________ "Well, if it matters not to you how things are phrased, nor whether they make any logical sense, then here is my answer to your question: Twenty-seven rumbly-tumblies in a tinhorn fandango." - Robert S Lancaster Stop Sylvia Browne

28th February 2007, 03:23 PM	#12
Babbylonian Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Lake Oswego, OR Posts: 4,477	Mondo, you noted in the OP that neither you nor your mother currently believe in psychics. Further, since you're presumably not a "famous" person, psychics aren't going to have a specific interest in pretending to contact you (as opposed to Houdini who would have been, and was after his passing, prime fodder for fakes). So, whatever your procedure, the purpose of doing this is unclear. The only certain outcome is having your mother more fixated on your untimely death. It further makes her think about you predeceasing her while you're still around. The best-case scenario might be convincing a very small number (if that - we've all seen how much evidence these people can ignore) of believers that a particular psychic is a fraud. Is that really worth being so morbid while you're alive and potentially increasing your mother's grief if you die? If you feel you simply must do something like this, why not ask your mother to come up with such a code? While the topic would still be morbid (and nothing, beyond perhaps a living will/advance directive, I'd want to regularly discuss with my parents), I've found that parents are usually a lot more comfortable thinking about and discussing their own deaths instead of those of their children.

28th February 2007, 04:24 PM	#13
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Sorry mate, but I think you're on a sure loser here. As several people have pointed out, psychics will dream up a plausible excuse and nobody's going to change their minds as a result of what they hear, either way. No matter how well you hide the code word, someone may find out about it and then where does it go? The "psychic" would be strengthened and your mother possibly shattered by it. I applaud your intentions, but I hope you can find projects more worthy of your time. Reno's suggestion is an excellent one - do talk to your mom about it - I bet people would love to see here here. I certainly would, for one.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

28th February 2007, 07:18 PM	#14
MondoAtheist Thinker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brentwood Posts: 179	Yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. I was just trying to figure a way for it to possibly work. So many outs on this, and it does seem hard to even get implemented in the first place. Which is a real bummer. Maybe one day we will be able to figure out a real way to prove/disprove psychics. Knowing what it did to my mother hurt me so much growing up. I would just like to figure out a way to solve all this. About getting my mother on here. I'm hoping so. She's really falling for Randi, and all that jazz. I believe she even emailed JeffWagg a bit ago, not sure what was said though. But I think if I could get involved in this it would be really cool. Anyways guys/gals, thanks for hearing me out on yet another silly idea. But I am sure we will be able to figure out this mystery one day. The code is a name my father used to call me before he died. Not many people know of it, except those who have passed away already, and my mother.
	__________________ "We're all made of Star stuff." - Carl Sagan

28th February 2007, 08:26 PM	#15
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	Originally Posted by MondoAtheist Yeah, I figured it wouldn't work. I was just trying to figure a way for it to possibly work. So many outs on this, and it does seem hard to even get implemented in the first place. Which is a real bummer. Maybe one day we will be able to figure out a real way to prove/disprove psychics. Knowing what it did to my mother hurt me so much growing up. I would just like to figure out a way to solve all this. I don't blame you at all for feeling like that, but it's just that they're so slimy that it might backfire, meaning you've wasted a load of time and effort. It's not so much that it a bad idea as it's a target which is fast-moving and nearly impossible to score a hit on. Randi's been trying for decades, yet Sylvia Browne is as strong as ever. Originally Posted by MondoAtheist About getting my mother on here. I'm hoping so. She's really falling for Randi, and all that jazz. Crikey! Is he single???
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

1st March 2007, 10:56 AM	#16
Kage Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	can't you go on montel and ask her to contact your dad?
Kage Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 452	__________________ After victory, tighten your helmet strings. Oda Nobunaga.

2nd March 2007, 09:30 AM	#17
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	Might work if you don't mention anything about a codeword to the psychic. Then again, a cold reading is like an unfair version of 20 questions (he can use way more than 20 guesses! More than enough to try one letter at a time until the word is spelled out...), and there's always the possibility the medium could get it with shotgun approaches. Another flaw is research, or possibly a hot reading. She can use that to determine your wife had a codeword in the first place, and suddenly the guesses become much more accurate.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

3rd March 2007, 11:21 AM	#18
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,985	Originally Posted by MondoAtheist Now, my questions, where are my flaws in this? Any ideas, and I hope maybe other people will try this also, or a plan just like it. Maybe one of us could get this to work, just maybe. The problem that materialized in the Houdini case was that his widow told people what the secret word was.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

3rd March 2007, 11:24 AM	#19
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 5,985	Originally Posted by MondoAtheist The code is a name my father used to call me before he died. Not many people know of it, except those who have passed away already, and my mother. I think you'll have to think about how 'secret' this word will be, if you're posting hints about it on the Internet.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett