Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells?

headscratcher4 · 15th March 2007, 01:01 PM

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001

Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense.

Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans.

Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality?

Magyar · 15th March 2007, 01:11 PM

this isn't all that tough. The good reverend would simply tell you that because sex is the original sin this "malfunction" or morelikey "the tempering of gods creation by the devil" is a perversion of His creation. Therefor fixing it is doing gods work. and as far as the embryos are concerned - again as long as you are doing gods work, there is special dispensations.

Yes the hypocricy is obvious and blatant, but since when does that matter to good xians???

Tailgater · 15th March 2007, 01:47 PM

Yes, doing evil is ok to stop a greater evil. As soon as they have "fixed" everyone, that evil should cease until called upon to stop the next great evil. They can keep the cells in a "holy" case blessed by priests and create an elaborate Indiana Jones style adventure to get to them.

Tricky · 15th March 2007, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001

Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense.

Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans.

Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality?

Interesting scenario.

How about this one. If Mohler found that homosexuality was detectible in fetuses, but could not be cured, would it be okay to abort them?

Darth Rotor · 15th March 2007, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tricky

Interesting scenario.

How about this one. If Mohler found that homosexuality was detectible in fetuses, but could not be cured, would it be okay to abort them?

*trite Queer Eye For The Straight Guy Style Joke warning*

What, and render progress in interior decoration and fashion stillborn for centuries to come? Have you no decency, man?

You might as well put beer in cans!

Oh, wait, that didn't come out right, we need another analogy.

*take two*

You might as well put beer in cardboard boxes!

DR

Darth Rotor · 15th March 2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001

Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense.

Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans.

Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality?

OK, that's a rather large if.

How about we make a wager. If said "condition" and said "treatment" come about, I bet Melissa Ethridge doesn't use it for her next baby.

If such a combination were found to be true, the scary as hell question is

Can it be legislated into a required "treatment," as polio vaccines are legislated for school attendance?

DR

The Fool · 15th March 2007, 02:36 PM

So its not caused by failing to introduce Boy babies to football and Motor racing early enough? Damn......

TragicMonkey · 15th March 2007, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

If such a combination were found to be true, the scary as hell question is

Can it be legislated into a required "treatment," as polio vaccines are legislated for school attendance?

Or the reverse. When a population gets overcrowded enough, they could start requiring conversion of a certain percentage of embryos to gay to decrease (probably) future population growth.

It would be more practical than sterilization, because if it became necessary (through disaster, or something) for those individuals to reproduce after all, it would still be biologically possible. It would also be less cruel than enforced celibacy, because they'd still be able to experience sexual pleasure.

Beerina · 15th March 2007, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001

Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense.

Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans.

Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality?

Could be one of two things. First, it's more likely the historically recent reversal of considering homosexuality wrong (~30-40 years) merely removes social pressures that served to keep men with gay tendencies reproducing. This may have served as sufficient pressure in lieu of actual genetics for hundreds of thousands if not several million years.

Hence "natural tendencies" are now exposed, so to speak, to flower up in free society. So I suppose there will be increased selective pressure against genetically as fewer gay men reproduce by voluntary, i.e. de facto choice.

The second issue is we don't know how much it is genetic to swing which way to begin with -- we presume there's some gene or set of genes that makes you desire one gender or another, but it might not be that at all. In animals, it may be more chemical. In this way, the female might be attracted to the male scent, and vice versa. This is, of course, genetic. But it might be so slight that other things might simply override it rather than a gay man having a "swapped" sense of smell.

Darth Rotor · 15th March 2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Or the reverse. When a population gets overcrowded enough, they could start requiring conversion of a certain percentage of embryos to gay to decrease (probably) future population growth.

It would be more practical than sterilization, because if it became necessary (through disaster, or something) for those individuals to reproduce after all, it would still be biologically possible. It would also be less cruel than enforced celibacy, because they'd still be able to experience sexual pleasure.

Certainly a different approach than the Chinese used for population control.

Or is it?

DR

fuelair · 15th March 2007, 03:21 PM

Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells?

Then Bush and his cronies would be on it like stink on Bush!!

Darth Rotor · 15th March 2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells?

Side effect consideration: would it tend to shrink or grow the stem?

DR

Sir Robin Goodfellow · 15th March 2007, 10:42 PM

Oh, homosexaulity can be cured with a strict regimen of prayer. Just ask Pastor Haggard. He caught The Gay and now he's a man's man. A real man's man.

Darth Rotor · 16th March 2007, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sir Robin Goodfellow

Oh, homosexaulity can be cured with a strict regimen of prayer. Just ask Pastor Haggard. He caught The Gay and now he's a man's man. A real man's man.

I still wonder what his wife had to say about all of this. Can't imagine she cared for it, unless her pool boy took care of her general needs.

DR

15th March 2007, 01:01 PM	#1
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells? http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001 Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense. Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans. Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality?
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

15th March 2007, 01:11 PM	#2
Magyar Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the edge of reason Posts: 1,546	this isn't all that tough. The good reverend would simply tell you that because sex is the original sin this "malfunction" or morelikey "the tempering of gods creation by the devil" is a perversion of His creation. Therefor fixing it is doing gods work. and as far as the embryos are concerned - again as long as you are doing gods work, there is special dispensations. Yes the hypocricy is obvious and blatant, but since when does that matter to good xians???
	__________________ "There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." James Joyce Due to recent cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

15th March 2007, 01:47 PM	#3
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212	Yes, doing evil is ok to stop a greater evil. As soon as they have "fixed" everyone, that evil should cease until called upon to stop the next great evil. They can keep the cells in a "holy" case blessed by priests and create an elaborate Indiana Jones style adventure to get to them.
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212

15th March 2007, 02:12 PM	#5
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,270	Originally Posted by Tricky Interesting scenario. How about this one. If Mohler found that homosexuality was detectible in fetuses, but could not be cured, would it be okay to abort them? trite Queer Eye For The Straight Guy Style Joke warning What, and render progress in interior decoration and fashion stillborn for centuries to come? Have you no decency, man? You might as well put beer in cans! Oh, wait, that didn't come out right, we need another analogy. take two You might as well put beer in cardboard boxes! DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

15th March 2007, 02:15 PM	#6
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,270	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001 Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense. Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans. Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality? OK, that's a rather large if. How about we make a wager. If said "condition" and said "treatment" come about, I bet Melissa Ethridge doesn't use it for her next baby. If such a combination were found to be true, the scary as hell question is Can it be legislated into a required "treatment," as polio vaccines are legislated for school attendance? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

15th March 2007, 02:03 PM	#4
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001 Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense. Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans. Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality? Interesting scenario. How about this one. If Mohler found that homosexuality was detectible in fetuses, but could not be cured, would it be okay to abort them?

15th March 2007, 02:36 PM	#7
The Fool Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 11,558	So its not caused by failing to introduce Boy babies to football and Motor racing early enough? Damn......
	__________________ And what is good, Phaedrus,and what is not good. Need we ask anyone to tell us these things? R. M. Pirsig. (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance) Lose half your IQ....Ask me how.

15th March 2007, 02:45 PM	#8
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,112	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor If such a combination were found to be true, the scary as hell question is Can it be legislated into a required "treatment," as polio vaccines are legislated for school attendance? Or the reverse. When a population gets overcrowded enough, they could start requiring conversion of a certain percentage of embryos to gay to decrease (probably) future population growth. It would be more practical than sterilization, because if it became necessary (through disaster, or something) for those individuals to reproduce after all, it would still be biologically possible. It would also be less cruel than enforced celibacy, because they'd still be able to experience sexual pleasure.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

15th March 2007, 02:50 PM	#9
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles...00010000000001 Article is about a Baptist seminarian who postulates that if a biological foundation for homosexuality could be proven...than development of a treatment in the womb to change sexual orrientation would make sense. Ok, let's put aside for the moment the potential issue of monkeying with God's creation... i.e. if biology determins whether one is homosexual, isn't that part of god's plans. Let's get to the real tricky issue...what if it were shown that you had to use embryonic stem cells to reverse homosexuality? Could be one of two things. First, it's more likely the historically recent reversal of considering homosexuality wrong (~30-40 years) merely removes social pressures that served to keep men with gay tendencies reproducing. This may have served as sufficient pressure in lieu of actual genetics for hundreds of thousands if not several million years. Hence "natural tendencies" are now exposed, so to speak, to flower up in free society. So I suppose there will be increased selective pressure against genetically as fewer gay men reproduce by voluntary, i.e. de facto choice. The second issue is we don't know how much it is genetic to swing which way to begin with -- we presume there's some gene or set of genes that makes you desire one gender or another, but it might not be that at all. In animals, it may be more chemical. In this way, the female might be attracted to the male scent, and vice versa. This is, of course, genetic. But it might be so slight that other things might simply override it rather than a gay man having a "swapped" sense of smell.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

15th March 2007, 02:54 PM	#10
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,270	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Or the reverse. When a population gets overcrowded enough, they could start requiring conversion of a certain percentage of embryos to gay to decrease (probably) future population growth. It would be more practical than sterilization, because if it became necessary (through disaster, or something) for those individuals to reproduce after all, it would still be biologically possible. It would also be less cruel than enforced celibacy, because they'd still be able to experience sexual pleasure. Certainly a different approach than the Chinese used for population control. Or is it? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

15th March 2007, 03:21 PM	#11
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells? Then Bush and his cronies would be on it like stink on Bush!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961

15th March 2007, 03:27 PM	#12
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,270	Originally Posted by fuelair Reversing homosexuality...what if it took stem cells? Side effect consideration: would it tend to shrink or grow the stem? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

15th March 2007, 10:42 PM	#13
Sir Robin Goodfellow Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Estevan (wear da fox hat) Posts: 2,751	Oh, homosexaulity can be cured with a strict regimen of prayer. Just ask Pastor Haggard. He caught The Gay and now he's a man's man. A real man's man.

16th March 2007, 07:01 AM	#14
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,270	Originally Posted by Sir Robin Goodfellow Oh, homosexaulity can be cured with a strict regimen of prayer. Just ask Pastor Haggard. He caught The Gay and now he's a man's man. A real man's man. I still wonder what his wife had to say about all of this. Can't imagine she cared for it, unless her pool boy took care of her general needs. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis