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Yahweh · 24th July 2003, 10:39 AM

"Theres no such thing as a true skeptic."
"Theres no such thing as a true atheist."

I've heard both of these claims before. I dont know what they mean or the logic behind them. Can someone help me out?

Upchurch · 24th July 2003, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
"Theres no such thing as a true skeptic."
"Theres no such thing as a true atheist."

The atheist line usually comes from theists who can't imagine a person who doesn't believe in something. It's usually followed with comments about how atheists have "elevated humans to the position of God" or that "humans are the atheist's God" or that in times of crisis atheists will turn to God out of desperation.

Not overly familiar with the skeptic line, but maybe it's an idea that everybody has to take something for granted? I dunno.

Sundog · 24th July 2003, 10:51 AM

Ahem.

I made the skeptic line up.

All I really mean by it is this: No one is a critical thinker all the time, and when one is convinced that they ARE, it's very likely that they're not thinking critically about their OWN thought processes.

Dancing David · 24th July 2003, 10:54 AM

I agree with Upchurch, because there are people who lean on god in the pinch, they feel that all people must lean on god.

A true sceptic would be sceptical of scepticism.

Yahweh · 24th July 2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog
Ahem.

I made the skeptic line up.

All I really mean by it is this: No one is a critical thinker all the time, and when one is convinced that they ARE, it's very likely that they're not thinking critically about their OWN thought processes.

Quite actually, I was reading through the constant pointless babbling of bickering back and forth on BillHoyt's Logic Prize thread, and I read your signature, and it reminded me of how I've been told I wasnt a true athiest. (Believe me, I can make my run-on sentences way longer...)

Sundog · 24th July 2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

Quite actually, I was reading through the constant pointless babbling of bickering back and forth on BillHoyt's Logic Prize thread, and I read your signature, and it reminded me of how I've been told I wasnt a true athiest. (Believe me, I can make my run-on sentences way longer...)

Ya really think it's pointless? I thought it was a rather important point we were making, but I bow to public opinion.

Yahweh · 24th July 2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Upchurch

The atheist line usually comes from theists who can't imagine a person who doesn't believe in something. It's usually followed with comments about how atheists have "elevated humans to the position of God" or that "humans are the atheist's God" or that in times of crisis atheists will turn to God out of desperation.

It sounds like whoever says those things is being very ignorantly stubborn and/or dictionary deficient...

Pahansiri · 24th July 2003, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
"Theres no such thing as a true skeptic."
"Theres no such thing as a true atheist."

I wish to meet and get to know the person who knows "ALL skeptics and ALL atheist" also knows all they think and believe.

This person would so very interesting to meet, Oh, wait he already knows me and what I think so I guess I must have meet him already..

Forget it

Sundog · 24th July 2003, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pahansiri

I wish to meet and get to know the person who knows "ALL skeptics and ALL atheist" also knows all they think and believe.

This person would so very interesting to meet, Oh, wait he already knows me and what I think so I guess I must have meet him already..

Forget it

I know this about you, me, and everyone here: The moment we think we've achieved that lofty goal of being perfectly logical skeptical thinkers, we are riding for a fall, because we're all fallable.

Ooh, neat pun there, huh?

Pahansiri · 24th July 2003, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sundog

I know this about you, me, and everyone here: The moment we think we've achieved that lofty goal of being perfectly logical skeptical thinkers, we are riding for a fall, because we're all fallable.

Ooh, neat pun there, huh?

Hello Sundog..

My point was not that I you or anyone is perfect at this or that and really that is not what the post was we are all addressing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh
"Theres no such thing as a true skeptic."
"Theres no such thing as a true atheist."

It says “true”. In reality there will be countless definitions as to what “true” is just as “perfect”.

I am not perfect at anything and what I know for certain is there is certainly much I do NOT know.

What I am very sure of is NO one knows all people be it in a group i.e. Atheist etc. I am sure no one knows all people who were ever born, knows what they do or think.

Many times our Christian friends will say “everyone is a sinner” or “Everyone sins or has sinned”.

I ask simply for a list with all names of all people ever and their “sins”.

Just what I believe.

By the wan, nice puns

whitefork · 24th July 2003, 11:55 AM

Somebody has to break it to you all.

There's no such thing as true truth.

Pahansiri · 24th July 2003, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kullervo
Somebody has to break it to you all.

There's no such thing as true truth.

There is no anything. All is an illusion.

Quote:

reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one….Albert Einstein)

But there is one truth

I am one hot and sexy great looking dude…

OK OK I lied.

But is that the truth? If I am not one hot and sexy great looking dude and just admitted it did I say a truth?

Truth is I don’t know..

Wait is that the truth????

whitefork · 24th July 2003, 12:22 PM

Truth is, I was pretty certain that Pah would respond to my post.

Upchurch · 24th July 2003, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

It sounds like whoever says those things is being very ignorantly stubborn and/or dictionary deficient...

well, yeah. The last one is classic JK.

Pahansiri · 24th July 2003, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kullervo
Truth is, I was pretty certain that Pah would respond to my post.

Really?????? Lol
Did I or was it illusion as there really is no me/Pahansiri.

Skat Bo · 25th July 2003, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pahansiri

There is no anything. All is an illusion.

But there is one truth I am one hot and sexy great looking dude…

OK OK I lied.

But is that the truth? If I am not one hot and sexy great looking dude and just admitted it did I say a truth?

Truth is I don’t know..

Wait is that the truth????

The truth? The truth is, I only read your post for your excelent use of smiley guy aids.

24th July 2003, 10:39 AM	#1
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	"Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic." "Theres no such thing as a true atheist." I've heard both of these claims before. I dont know what they mean or the logic behind them. Can someone help me out?
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

24th July 2003, 10:49 AM	#2
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,472	Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic." "Theres no such thing as a true atheist." The atheist line usually comes from theists who can't imagine a person who doesn't believe in something. It's usually followed with comments about how atheists have "elevated humans to the position of God" or that "humans are the atheist's God" or that in times of crisis atheists will turn to God out of desperation. Not overly familiar with the skeptic line, but maybe it's an idea that everybody has to take something for granted? I dunno.

24th July 2003, 10:51 AM	#3
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	Ahem. I made the skeptic line up. All I really mean by it is this: No one is a critical thinker all the time, and when one is convinced that they ARE, it's very likely that they're not thinking critically about their OWN thought processes.
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	__________________ I come not to bring peace, but a sword. -- Jesus H. Christ

24th July 2003, 10:54 AM	#4
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,920	I agree with Upchurch, because there are people who lean on god in the pinch, they feel that all people must lean on god. A true sceptic would be sceptical of scepticism.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

24th July 2003, 10:59 AM	#5
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Quote: Originally posted by Sundog Ahem. I made the skeptic line up. All I really mean by it is this: No one is a critical thinker all the time, and when one is convinced that they ARE, it's very likely that they're not thinking critically about their OWN thought processes. Quite actually, I was reading through the constant pointless babbling of bickering back and forth on BillHoyt's Logic Prize thread, and I read your signature, and it reminded me of how I've been told I wasnt a true athiest. (Believe me, I can make my run-on sentences way longer...)
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

24th July 2003, 11:00 AM	#6
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Quite actually, I was reading through the constant pointless babbling of bickering back and forth on BillHoyt's Logic Prize thread, and I read your signature, and it reminded me of how I've been told I wasnt a true athiest. (Believe me, I can make my run-on sentences way longer...) Ya really think it's pointless? I thought it was a rather important point we were making, but I bow to public opinion.
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	__________________ I come not to bring peace, but a sword. -- Jesus H. Christ

24th July 2003, 11:01 AM	#7
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Re: Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Upchurch The atheist line usually comes from theists who can't imagine a person who doesn't believe in something. It's usually followed with comments about how atheists have "elevated humans to the position of God" or that "humans are the atheist's God" or that in times of crisis atheists will turn to God out of desperation. It sounds like whoever says those things is being very ignorantly stubborn and/or dictionary deficient...
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

24th July 2003, 11:04 AM	#8
Pahansiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,380	Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic." "Theres no such thing as a true atheist." I wish to meet and get to know the person who knows "ALL skeptics and ALL atheist" also knows all they think and believe. This person would so very interesting to meet, Oh, wait he already knows me and what I think so I guess I must have meet him already.. Forget it
	__________________ "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility."...H.W.Longfellow

24th July 2003, 11:07 AM	#9
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	Re: Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Pahansiri I wish to meet and get to know the person who knows "ALL skeptics and ALL atheist" also knows all they think and believe. This person would so very interesting to meet, Oh, wait he already knows me and what I think so I guess I must have meet him already.. Forget it I know this about you, me, and everyone here: The moment we think we've achieved that lofty goal of being perfectly logical skeptical thinkers, we are riding for a fall, because we're all fallable. Ooh, neat pun there, huh?
Sundog Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,071	__________________ I come not to bring peace, but a sword. -- Jesus H. Christ

24th July 2003, 11:33 AM	#10
Pahansiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,380	Re: Re: Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Sundog I know this about you, me, and everyone here: The moment we think we've achieved that lofty goal of being perfectly logical skeptical thinkers, we are riding for a fall, because we're all fallable. Ooh, neat pun there, huh? Hello Sundog.. My point was not that I you or anyone is perfect at this or that and really that is not what the post was we are all addressing. Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic." "Theres no such thing as a true atheist." It says “true”. In reality there will be countless definitions as to what “true” is just as “perfect”. I am not perfect at anything and what I know for certain is there is certainly much I do NOT know. What I am very sure of is NO one knows all people be it in a group i.e. Atheist etc. I am sure no one knows all people who were ever born, knows what they do or think. Many times our Christian friends will say “everyone is a sinner” or “Everyone sins or has sinned”. I ask simply for a list with all names of all people ever and their “sins”. Just what I believe. By the wan, nice puns
	__________________ "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility."...H.W.Longfellow

24th July 2003, 11:55 AM	#11
whitefork None of the above Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: aka kullervo Posts: 2,339	Somebody has to break it to you all. There's no such thing as true truth.
	__________________ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies - Nietzsche

24th July 2003, 12:13 PM	#12
Pahansiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,380	Quote: Originally posted by Kullervo Somebody has to break it to you all. There's no such thing as true truth. There is no anything. All is an illusion. Quote: reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one….Albert Einstein) But there is one truth I am one hot and sexy great looking dude… OK OK I lied. But is that the truth? If I am not one hot and sexy great looking dude and just admitted it did I say a truth? Truth is I don’t know.. Wait is that the truth????
	__________________ "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility."...H.W.Longfellow

24th July 2003, 12:22 PM	#13
whitefork None of the above Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: aka kullervo Posts: 2,339	Truth is, I was pretty certain that Pah would respond to my post.
	__________________ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies - Nietzsche

24th July 2003, 01:09 PM	#14
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: Funky Town (STL, MO) Posts: 23,472	Re: Re: Re: "Theres no such thing as a true skeptic..." Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh It sounds like whoever says those things is being very ignorantly stubborn and/or dictionary deficient... well, yeah. The last one is classic JK.

24th July 2003, 01:14 PM	#15
Pahansiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,380	Quote: Originally posted by Kullervo Truth is, I was pretty certain that Pah would respond to my post. Really?????? Lol Did I or was it illusion as there really is no me/Pahansiri.
	__________________ "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility."...H.W.Longfellow

25th July 2003, 02:15 AM	#16
Skat Bo Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 131	Quote: Originally posted by Pahansiri There is no anything. All is an illusion. But there is one truth I am one hot and sexy great looking dude… OK OK I lied. But is that the truth? If I am not one hot and sexy great looking dude and just admitted it did I say a truth? Truth is I don’t know.. Wait is that the truth???? The truth? The truth is, I only read your post for your excelent use of smiley guy aids.
Skat Bo Thinker Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 131	__________________ --Skat Bo. Simplicity Reigns. My wife was, shall we say, 'well rounded' before she was pregnant. Now she's 8 months pregnant. When she was six months, some fresh stretch marks started showing up. She asked me, "Are these stretch marks?". Before my brain could stop it, my foolish mouth said, "Yep, you're getting stretch marks on your stretch marks." [wife's eye widen] " I mean, your getting new stretch marks between your old stretch marks " [wife's brow is starting to crease as it sinks in] " It's not really a bad thing. If you get enough stretch marks, you won't even be able to tell you had stretch marks. Kind of like an ...accordian.....that's pulled....out all .....the......way......." Things kind of went fuzzy after that. All I remember is waking up on the couch the next morning with a lump on my head. --Bruce