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Tony · 29th March 2007, 10:57 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/...s_tattoo_ban_5

Quote:

OCEANSIDE, Calif. - Five tattooed skulls stretch from Marine Cpl. Jeremy Slaton's right elbow to his wrist, spelling out the word "Death." He planned to add a tattoo spelling "Life" on his left arm, but that's on hold because of a Marine policy taking effect Sunday.

The Marines are banning any new, extra-large tattoos below the elbow or the knee, saying such body art is harmful to the Corps' spit-and-polish image.

Slaton and other grunts are not pleased.

"I guess I'll get the other half later," grumbled the 24-year-old leatherneck from Eden Prairie, Minn. "It's kind of messed up."

For many Marines, getting a tattoo is a rite of passage. They commonly get their forearms inscribed to remember fallen comrades, combat tours or loved ones, and often ask for exotic designs that incorporate the Marine motto, Semper Fi, or "Always faithful."

Dozens of Marines from Camp Pendleton, the West Coast's biggest Marine base, made last-minute trips to tattoo parlors in nearby Oceanside before the ban kicked in.

"This is something I love to do," said Cpl. David Nadrchal, 20, of Pomona, who made an appointment to get an Iraqi flag and his deployment dates etched onto his lower leg. "The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that."

The corps has a spit and polish image? Maybe it's because I've known a lot of people who've become Marines, but they've always seemed like the tough, macho, rough around the edges, borderline crazy, no BS kind of guys. Spit and polish, to me atleast, connotes a goody-goody church going pansy ( those guys joined the NAVY

).

Quote:

Tattoo artist Jerry Layton at the Body Temple Tattoo Studio in Oceanside said he was booked up with Marines rushing to beat the deadline.

"These are guys that are dying in the war," Layton said. "They can fight, but they can't get a tattoo? It's ridiculous."

I'm inclined to agree with the tatoo artist. Opinions? Should marines be allow to have sleeve tats?

ClintonHammond · 29th March 2007, 11:05 AM

"The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that."

Where's the surprise? They already tell the marine what he can put in his body, and what he can't... what he can put in his mind and what he can't... What he can wear and what he can't... why not what he can put ON his body and what he can't??

If it was Canada, some special interest lawyer would take it to the supreme court and if you could claim it was part of your religion, you'd get away with it.

If yer gonna join a group and that group has a uniform and a set of rules, you follow those rules. If the rules change and you don't like it, (Or can't get over it) you leave.

drkitten · 29th March 2007, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by ClintonHammond

If yer gonna join a group and that group has a uniform and a set of rules, you follow those rules. If the rules change and you don't like it, (Or can't get over it) you leave.

'course, that's kind of difficult to say to a Marine. "I"m sorry, but this new rule about tattoos bothers me. May I please get out of my enlistment?"

Hammer_of_Thor · 29th March 2007, 11:16 AM

When I was in the Army back in the mid-90s they discouraged any tattoo at all.

Said it was destruction of government property. Doubt that was true but it kept many people from getting them.

pgwenthold · 29th March 2007, 11:23 AM

"When the sun goes up in the West and lays its head down in the East
When they ordain that Madame OHair and she becomes a priest
When a San Diego sailor comes home with no tatoo
When the lights go on at Wrigley Field I'll be coming home to you"

Tatoos and Navy go together like the Statler Brothers and cheesy lyrics.

Madalch · 29th March 2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:

"The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that."

Are the marines allowed to show up for work in red T-shirts? Or pink dresses?

Or is there some sort of dress code for the marines and similar military organizations?

Darth Rotor · 29th March 2007, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Madalch

Are the marines allowed to show up for work in red T-shirts? Or pink dresses?

Or is there some sort of dress code for the marines and similar military organizations?

Is this a serious question?

DR

Tmy · 29th March 2007, 01:46 PM

There doing the kids a favor. Visable tats repel employers. Their young and full of piss n vinegar and dont realize they might regret that tat..

ImaginalDisc · 29th March 2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tmy

There doing the kids a favor. Visable tats repel employers. Their young and full of piss n vinegar and dont realize they might regret that tat..

That's a choice no one should make on their behalf.

Besides, last time I checked Marine dress uniforms had sleeves that extended to the wrist, so the Marine "spirt and polish" image is unsullied by any arm tattoos.

Hammer_of_Thor · 29th March 2007, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

That's a choice no one should make on their behalf.

Besides, last time I checked Marine dress uniforms had sleeves that extended to the wrist, so the Marine "spirt and polish" image is unsullied by any arm tattoos.

Much of the time, while wearing day to day uniforms, the sleeves are rolled up exposing the arm from the bicep down.

I was stationed in Texas and unless we had full dress uniforms on our arms were exposed.

Madalch · 29th March 2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Is this a serious question?

DR

No- I'm well aware of the existance of uniforms.

thaiboxerken · 29th March 2007, 02:52 PM

It'll ruin their image?! BWAHAHAHAH!!

This Guy · 29th March 2007, 04:06 PM

As a ex-sailor that has full respect for Marines, I think this is a sensible rule.

They are not being told they can't have tattoos, just where they can't have them. My guess is that some 70% or so of the body is left to "decorate" as they please. While not infinitely familiar with all the uniforms worn by Marines, I'm sure they have short sleeve "Summer" uniforms. I know we did in the Navy.

I think it would be unsightly and distracting to have any member of the military be in a formal parade or Honor Guard, and him/her have tattoos displayed on their arms while, say carrying a coffin, or lowering a flag to half mast.

As for the "destruction of Government Property" in regards to tattoos, I never heard that. I did hear that in reference to sun burns, but I think the actual charge in the case of sun burns is "Malingering" and only applied when the sun burn caused an inability to perform your duties, and was caused by off duty actions, or failure to take proper precautions while in a duty status. It's use here is more like "self injury for the purpose of getting out of work". Not exactly the same as the medical usage of the word. But that's based on my feeble memory, so take with a grain of salt

Cylinder · 29th March 2007, 10:08 PM

Yea, the Destruction of Government Property bit is an old wives' tale. The USAF banned visible tats around 15 years ago.

ImaginalDisc · 30th March 2007, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hammer_of_Thor

Much of the time, while wearing day to day uniforms, the sleeves are rolled up exposing the arm from the bicep down.

I was stationed in Texas and unless we had full dress uniforms on our arms were exposed.

While wearing BDU's Marines are frequently thigh-deep in mud and leeches, neck deep in gore, eyebrow deep in bureaucratic BS and generally kicking ass. Tattoo regulations seem trite when a man is wearing his own blood, his buddy's, or his enemy's.

I've criticized the Marines a lot over the years, but I've never accused them of being obsessed over trivialities, which this tattoo regulation obviously is.

Mephisto · 31st March 2007, 08:31 AM

This is just a non-story.

As soon as the recruitment levels drop or casualties rise they'll toss this rule aside as expediently as other more important rules.

Quote:

February 14, 2007
Army Giving More Waivers in Recruiting

By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

The number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has grown about 65 percent in the last three years, increasing to 8,129 in 2006 from 4,918 in 2003, Department of Defense records show.

During that time, the Army has employed a variety of tactics to expand its diminishing pool of recruits. It has offered larger enlistment cash bonuses, allowed more high school dropouts and applicants with low scores on its aptitude test to join, and loosened weight and age restrictions.

It has also increased the number of so-called “moral waivers” to recruits with criminal pasts, even as the total number of recruits dropped slightly. The sharpest increase was in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which make up the bulk of all the Army’s moral waivers. These include aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide.

The number of waivers for felony convictions also increased, to 11 percent of the 8,129 moral waivers granted in 2006, from 8 percent.

Waivers for less serious crimes like traffic offenses and drug use have dropped or remained stable.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us...gewanted=print

Yes, I realize this article pertains to Army recruitment, but I think it applies equally for the Marines whose recruitment motto will inevitably be changed to, The Marines - We're Looking For A Few Warm Bodies"

Lonewulf · 1st April 2007, 08:30 AM

Space Marines -- Explore new worlds, blow them up, meet new people, kill them.

Seriously, it's a frikkin' tattoo. If they'll find jobs hard to come by because of tattoos, then I think that we should try to strike down that stereotype of, "He has a tattoo, therefore I won't hire him!", instead of forcing all the marines from being able to put get tattoos.

Seriously.

And trying to "clean up their image"? WTH?

Should the Navy stop putting men together in case it tarnishes the image of "navy men aren't homosexuals"? 'Cause I don't think they can avoid that stereotype.

29th March 2007, 10:57 AM	#1
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,816	Marines Ban Sleeve Tatoos http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/...s_tattoo_ban_5 Quote: OCEANSIDE, Calif. - Five tattooed skulls stretch from Marine Cpl. Jeremy Slaton's right elbow to his wrist, spelling out the word "Death." He planned to add a tattoo spelling "Life" on his left arm, but that's on hold because of a Marine policy taking effect Sunday. The Marines are banning any new, extra-large tattoos below the elbow or the knee, saying such body art is harmful to the Corps' spit-and-polish image. Slaton and other grunts are not pleased. "I guess I'll get the other half later," grumbled the 24-year-old leatherneck from Eden Prairie, Minn. "It's kind of messed up." For many Marines, getting a tattoo is a rite of passage. They commonly get their forearms inscribed to remember fallen comrades, combat tours or loved ones, and often ask for exotic designs that incorporate the Marine motto, Semper Fi, or "Always faithful." Dozens of Marines from Camp Pendleton, the West Coast's biggest Marine base, made last-minute trips to tattoo parlors in nearby Oceanside before the ban kicked in. "This is something I love to do," said Cpl. David Nadrchal, 20, of Pomona, who made an appointment to get an Iraqi flag and his deployment dates etched onto his lower leg. "The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that." The corps has a spit and polish image? Maybe it's because I've known a lot of people who've become Marines, but they've always seemed like the tough, macho, rough around the edges, borderline crazy, no BS kind of guys. Spit and polish, to me atleast, connotes a goody-goody church going pansy ( those guys joined the NAVY ). Quote: Tattoo artist Jerry Layton at the Body Temple Tattoo Studio in Oceanside said he was booked up with Marines rushing to beat the deadline. "These are guys that are dying in the war," Layton said. "They can fight, but they can't get a tattoo? It's ridiculous." I'm inclined to agree with the tatoo artist. Opinions? Should marines be allow to have sleeve tats?
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

29th March 2007, 11:23 AM	#5
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,119	"When the sun goes up in the West and lays its head down in the East When they ordain that Madame OHair and she becomes a priest When a San Diego sailor comes home with no tatoo When the lights go on at Wrigley Field I'll be coming home to you" Tatoos and Navy go together like the Statler Brothers and cheesy lyrics.
	__________________ "Baseball is a philosophy. The primordial ooze that once ruled our world has been captured in perpetual motion. Baseball is the moment. Its ever changing patterns are hypnotizing yet invigorating. Baseball is an art form. Classic and at the same time...progressive. Baseball is pre-historic and post-modern. Baseball is here to stay." (Stolen from the side of a lava lamp box, and modified slightly)

29th March 2007, 11:52 AM	#6
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The wet coast. Posts: 8,746	Quote: "The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that." Are the marines allowed to show up for work in red T-shirts? Or pink dresses? Or is there some sort of dress code for the marines and similar military organizations?
	__________________ As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker

29th March 2007, 12:34 PM	#7
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,378	Originally Posted by Madalch Are the marines allowed to show up for work in red T-shirts? Or pink dresses? Or is there some sort of dress code for the marines and similar military organizations? Is this a serious question? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

29th March 2007, 01:46 PM	#8
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	There doing the kids a favor. Visable tats repel employers. Their young and full of piss n vinegar and dont realize they might regret that tat..
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

29th March 2007, 11:05 AM	#2
ClintonHammond Guest Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Windsor Ontario Canada Posts: 871	"The fact I can't put something on my body that I want — it's a big thing to tell me I can't do that." Where's the surprise? They already tell the marine what he can put in his body, and what he can't... what he can put in his mind and what he can't... What he can wear and what he can't... why not what he can put ON his body and what he can't?? If it was Canada, some special interest lawyer would take it to the supreme court and if you could claim it was part of your religion, you'd get away with it. If yer gonna join a group and that group has a uniform and a set of rules, you follow those rules. If the rules change and you don't like it, (Or can't get over it) you leave.

29th March 2007, 11:07 AM	#3
drkitten Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Wits' End Posts: 21,647	Originally Posted by ClintonHammond If yer gonna join a group and that group has a uniform and a set of rules, you follow those rules. If the rules change and you don't like it, (Or can't get over it) you leave. 'course, that's kind of difficult to say to a Marine. "I"m sorry, but this new rule about tattoos bothers me. May I please get out of my enlistment?"

29th March 2007, 11:16 AM	#4
Hammer_of_Thor Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nunn Ya Posts: 166	When I was in the Army back in the mid-90s they discouraged any tattoo at all. Said it was destruction of government property. Doubt that was true but it kept many people from getting them.

29th March 2007, 01:50 PM	#9
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by Tmy There doing the kids a favor. Visable tats repel employers. Their young and full of piss n vinegar and dont realize they might regret that tat.. That's a choice no one should make on their behalf. Besides, last time I checked Marine dress uniforms had sleeves that extended to the wrist, so the Marine "spirt and polish" image is unsullied by any arm tattoos.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

29th March 2007, 01:55 PM	#10
Hammer_of_Thor Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nunn Ya Posts: 166	Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc That's a choice no one should make on their behalf. Besides, last time I checked Marine dress uniforms had sleeves that extended to the wrist, so the Marine "spirt and polish" image is unsullied by any arm tattoos. Much of the time, while wearing day to day uniforms, the sleeves are rolled up exposing the arm from the bicep down. I was stationed in Texas and unless we had full dress uniforms on our arms were exposed.

29th March 2007, 02:44 PM	#11
Madalch The Jester Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The wet coast. Posts: 8,746	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Is this a serious question? DR No- I'm well aware of the existance of uniforms.
	__________________ As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker

29th March 2007, 02:52 PM	#12
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,086	It'll ruin their image?! BWAHAHAHAH!!
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

29th March 2007, 04:06 PM	#13
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	As a ex-sailor that has full respect for Marines, I think this is a sensible rule. They are not being told they can't have tattoos, just where they can't have them. My guess is that some 70% or so of the body is left to "decorate" as they please. While not infinitely familiar with all the uniforms worn by Marines, I'm sure they have short sleeve "Summer" uniforms. I know we did in the Navy. I think it would be unsightly and distracting to have any member of the military be in a formal parade or Honor Guard, and him/her have tattoos displayed on their arms while, say carrying a coffin, or lowering a flag to half mast. As for the "destruction of Government Property" in regards to tattoos, I never heard that. I did hear that in reference to sun burns, but I think the actual charge in the case of sun burns is "Malingering" and only applied when the sun burn caused an inability to perform your duties, and was caused by off duty actions, or failure to take proper precautions while in a duty status. It's use here is more like "self injury for the purpose of getting out of work". Not exactly the same as the medical usage of the word. But that's based on my feeble memory, so take with a grain of salt
	__________________ I'm lost. I've gone to find me. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait!

29th March 2007, 10:08 PM	#14
Cylinder Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,932	Yea, the Destruction of Government Property bit is an old wives' tale. The USAF banned visible tats around 15 years ago.
	__________________ If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm

30th March 2007, 06:05 AM	#15
ImaginalDisc Proactive Untwister of Octagonal Hippopotamus Pants Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Miami, Fl Posts: 10,225	Originally Posted by Hammer_of_Thor Much of the time, while wearing day to day uniforms, the sleeves are rolled up exposing the arm from the bicep down. I was stationed in Texas and unless we had full dress uniforms on our arms were exposed. While wearing BDU's Marines are frequently thigh-deep in mud and leeches, neck deep in gore, eyebrow deep in bureaucratic BS and generally kicking ass. Tattoo regulations seem trite when a man is wearing his own blood, his buddy's, or his enemy's. I've criticized the Marines a lot over the years, but I've never accused them of being obsessed over trivialities, which this tattoo regulation obviously is.
	__________________ Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds. *-HK-47*

31st March 2007, 08:31 AM	#16
Mephisto Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: in a state of disbelief Posts: 6,065	This is just a non-story. As soon as the recruitment levels drop or casualties rise they'll toss this rule aside as expediently as other more important rules. Quote: February 14, 2007 Army Giving More Waivers in Recruiting By LIZETTE ALVAREZ The number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has grown about 65 percent in the last three years, increasing to 8,129 in 2006 from 4,918 in 2003, Department of Defense records show. During that time, the Army has employed a variety of tactics to expand its diminishing pool of recruits. It has offered larger enlistment cash bonuses, allowed more high school dropouts and applicants with low scores on its aptitude test to join, and loosened weight and age restrictions. It has also increased the number of so-called “moral waivers” to recruits with criminal pasts, even as the total number of recruits dropped slightly. The sharpest increase was in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which make up the bulk of all the Army’s moral waivers. These include aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide. The number of waivers for felony convictions also increased, to 11 percent of the 8,129 moral waivers granted in 2006, from 8 percent. Waivers for less serious crimes like traffic offenses and drug use have dropped or remained stable. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us...gewanted=print Yes, I realize this article pertains to Army recruitment, but I think it applies equally for the Marines whose recruitment motto will inevitably be changed to, The Marines - We're Looking For A Few Warm Bodies"
	__________________ "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" Mahatma Gandhi

1st April 2007, 08:30 AM	#17
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Space Marines -- Explore new worlds, blow them up, meet new people, kill them. Seriously, it's a frikkin' tattoo. If they'll find jobs hard to come by because of tattoos, then I think that we should try to strike down that stereotype of, "He has a tattoo, therefore I won't hire him!", instead of forcing all the marines from being able to put get tattoos. Seriously. And trying to "clean up their image"? WTH? Should the Navy stop putting men together in case it tarnishes the image of "navy men aren't homosexuals"? 'Cause I don't think they can avoid that stereotype.
	__________________ Writing.com Account Last edited by Lonewulf; 1st April 2007 at 08:33 AM.