Gallery told to shut down chocolate Jesus

Tanstaafl · 30th March 2007, 04:36 PM

I wonder what anyone here makes of this:

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...esus30-ON.html

A planned Holy Week exhibition of a nude, anatomically correct chocolate sculpture of Jesus Christ was canceled Friday amid a choir of complaining Catholics that included Cardinal Edward Egan.

The "My Sweet Lord" display was shut down by the hotel that houses the Lab Gallery in midtown Manhattan, said Matt Semler, the gallery's creative director. Semler said he submitted his resignation after officials at the Roger Smith Hotel shut down the show.

The six-foot sculpture was the victim of "a strong-arming from people who haven't seen the show, seen what we're doing," Semler said. "They jumped to conclusions completely contrary to our intentions."

But word of the confectionary Christ infuriated Catholics, including Egan, who described it as "a sickening display." Bill Donohue, head of the watchdog Catholic League, said it was "one of the worst assaults on Christian sensibilities ever."

The hotel and the gallery were overrun Thursday with angry phone calls and e-mails about the exhibit. Semler said the calls included death threats over the work of artist Cosimo Cavallaro, who was described as disappointed by the decision to cancel the display.

I wonder how much different this really is to the muslim response to the Muhammed cartoons. I would take the death threats here far less seriously, but still... it is eerily similar to me.

Kopji · 30th March 2007, 04:41 PM

Aaargh, now I'm going to think of this story every time I hear that stupid George Harrison song.

Marquis de Carabas · 30th March 2007, 04:42 PM

[singing]
Chocolate Jesus!
Chocolate Jesus!
Overstimulates endocrine glands
He's so creamy, smooth and brown
I lick him up and I lick him down
Yes, he melts in my mouth, not in my hands
[/singing]

thaiboxerken · 30th March 2007, 04:44 PM

I think those people are just weird. I wonder if they thought for a second of the artist was christian or not. I doubt they care. So jesus is chocolate? So what? So he's naked? Don't they also realize that a depiction of a guy being crucified is rather disturbing in the first place?

Kopji · 30th March 2007, 04:45 PM

Some penis-free chocolate Jesus's here:

http://chocolatefantasies.com/religious.htm

andyandy · 30th March 2007, 04:46 PM

chocolate jesus.....

mmm sacrelicious

Tanstaafl · 30th March 2007, 04:47 PM

I'm guessing there was very little actual thinking that went into their reaction at all.

I think it mostly a gut-level emotional response. Probably gave some of them flashbacks to the jesus-in-a-jar-of-urine that was around a few years ago.

thaiboxerken · 30th March 2007, 04:50 PM

Those same people probably would get upset if a magician turned water into wine during a show.

NotJesus · 30th March 2007, 04:55 PM

Don't go to church on Sunday
Don't get on my knees to pray
Don't memorize the books of the Bible
I got my own special way
But I know Jesus loves me
Maybe just a little bit more
I fall on my knees every Sunday
At Zerelda Lee's candy store

Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus
To make me feel good inside
Got to be a chocolate Jesus
To keep me satisfied

Well I don't want no Anna Zabba
Don't want no Almond Joy
There ain't nothing better
Suitable for this boy
Well it's the only thing
That can pick me up
Better than a cup of gold
See only a chocolate Jesus
Can satisfy my soul

When the weather gets rough
And it's whiskey in the shade
It's best to wrap your savior
Up in cellophane
He flows like the big muddy
But that's ok
Pour him over ice cream
For a nice parfait

Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus
Good enough for me
Got to be a chocolate Jesus
Good enough for me

Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus
To make me feel good inside
Got to be a chocolate Jesus
To keep me satisfied

--Tom Waits & Kathleen Brennan

Björn Toulouse · 30th March 2007, 05:04 PM

I can do anything I pleases
long as I got my chocolate Jesus
riding on the dashboard of my car.

But in the summer it ain't funny
when it gets all bright and sunny
and he melts and drips like gooey tar...

Foster Zygote · 30th March 2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by NotJesus

Don't go to church on Sunday
Don't get on my knees to pray
Don't memorize the books of the Bible
I got my own special way
But I know Jesus loves me
Maybe just a little bit more
I fall on my knees every Sunday
At Zerelda Lee's candy store...

Damn! You beat me to it. That's one of my favorite Tom Waits songs.

RandomElement · 30th March 2007, 06:48 PM

My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy.

Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive?

Foster Zygote · 30th March 2007, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by RandomElement

My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy.

Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive?

Not if it had coconut filling.

grayman · 30th March 2007, 07:42 PM

Were there chocolate malted-milk balls on the Jesus?

strathmeyer · 30th March 2007, 08:41 PM

Is the cross made of pretzel?

Kopji · 30th March 2007, 10:45 PM

Wohoo! Whoa.
Bill Donohue just verbally duked it out in a rockem sockem interview on CNN with artist Cosimo Cavallaro. Donohue resorted to a Godwin-like comparison calling swastikas art, if this was. Cosimo punched back by saying Donohue was much more like a Nazi than he was.

Cavallaro has received threats and is in hiding. The hotel closed the show and has been harmed financially. Donohue seemed very proud of that.

The funny thing is, CNN showed a full frontal view of the chocolate statue during almost the whole interview.

Donohue proudly and loudly portrayed the Catholic church as a powerful and dangerous political force that could force a private business into bankruptcy it wanted. Smash an art show. Do what it wants.

The artist spoke like, well an artist. Somewhat genuinely bemused at all the fuss. An artist in hiding and in fear for his friends.

Does the Catholic church really think that this 'Goliath vs David' tactic is very smart? That aligning the massive resources of an religio-political machine against an artist is a good idea?

The Catholic church was shown to be a dangerous force today all right. I hope they enjoy what comes along with this.

Kopji · 30th March 2007, 10:53 PM

The bloggers already have it. This oughta be good.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

Kopji · 30th March 2007, 11:52 PM

CNN replayed it.

Tanstaafl · 31st March 2007, 08:06 AM

Wow!

I had no idea the reaction was quite that... strident. Yikes.

grayman · 31st March 2007, 08:15 AM

Imagine the reaction to a chocolate Mohamed.

darnell11 · 31st March 2007, 04:18 PM

I wonder if the artist is gonna eat it now...I would.

Kopji · 31st March 2007, 06:59 PM

Donohue actually ranted a bit about if the Jesus would be eaten.

I don't remember exactly what Cosimo's words were, but he seemed a little surprised at the thought. we do not eat the art

Kopji · 31st March 2007, 07:21 PM

The transcript is online now. Worth a view if it's repeated though.
Some snips.

Quote:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...30/acd.01.html

COOPER: Cosimo, do you understand the outrage this has caused? I mean, do you think it's overreaction? Do you get it?

C. CAVALLARO: Yes, I get it. I think it's an overreaction.

You just heard the gentleman calling artists losers, or me a loser. I think what he's -- his assault is on the public at large, artists, and freedom of speech, and every Catholic. I'm a Catholic, and I'm a Christian.

And I think this gentleman doesn't even represent the people that are in his faith.

DONAHUE: That's funny. You said I put out a fatwa, right? Or the -- or the -- that was the -- the guy who ran the lab, says I put out a fatwa. I put out a news release.

So, you're accusing me of being like the Taliban; is that right?

C. CAVALLARO: Who, me? You're not that intelligent.

(LAUGHTER)

DONAHUE: Oh, no, let me tell you something. You're -- you're lucky I'm not as mean, because you might lose more than your head.

COOPER: Cosimo, did you want people to eat this? Was that part of this?

C. CAVALLARO: No.

Did you hear what this gentleman is saying, that I would lose my head?

DONAHUE: No, I -- you heard what I said. I said you're -- you're lucky I'm not like the Taliban, because you would lose more than your head, which is why...

C. CAVALLARO: Right. So, therefore...

(CROSSTALK)

Quote:

...COOPER: But, Bill, doesn't -- doesn't -- I mean, don't people have a right to express themselves? And isn't that what art is about? Aren't artists supposed to provoke thought?

DONAHUE: That's right. And, if we -- and if we put a swastika out on a stamp in the United States, we could call that art. It was an art exhibition. I don't think Jews would go for that.

Just because art is art doesn't mean that it is a right that is absolute. Art can be insulting and it can be offensive. And when these people are whining, claiming victim status, as this guy is doing, because of my exercise of my First Amendment right of freedom of speech -- I didn't call the cops to come in and censor this.

I'm simply saying I called up about 500 of my friends and -- running different Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and non- sectarian organizations to boycott the Roger Smith Hotel. They're morally bankrupt. I want to see them financially bankrupt.

Quote:

DONAHUE: Look, you lost. You know what? You put your middle finger at the Catholic Church, and we just broke it, didn't we, pal?

C. CAVALLARO: No. You're wrong. You're wrong.

DONAHUE: Yes, we did. You lost.

C. CAVALLARO: I have a lot of believers.

DONAHUE: We -- we won. You're out of a job.

C. CAVALLARO: And I'm a Christian. And there's a lot of people like me, who are opposed to what you're doing, because you made a big...

DONAHUE: Yes? But I got a job, and you don't.

C. CAVALLARO: You made a -- "I got a job, and you don't"?

DONAHUE: Yes.

C. CAVALLARO: You're acting like a 5-year-old.

DONAHUE: I got a job, and you don't.

C. CAVALLARO: You're talking -- you're acting like a 5-year-old. And I feel sorry for you.

COOPER: All right. We're going to -- we're...

DONAHUE: Well, I won on this, and you lost, didn't you?

COOPER: Well, let's -- let's leave it there.

You both expressed your opinions.

thaiboxerken · 31st March 2007, 07:25 PM

Hmm.. transcript shows that neither person is very articulate. I will admit that Donahue did sound extremely childish and dismissed the fact that Cooper is a Christian.

Kopji · 31st March 2007, 07:41 PM

The end was sort of argument by 'neener neener'.

thaiboxerken · 31st March 2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kopji

The end was sort of argument by 'neener neener'.

I know you are, but what am I?

Glen.Nogami · 31st March 2007, 09:40 PM

What a truly sad debate. I mean, learn to think on your feet, folks! As for Choco-christ, I think it's absurd that the church went after it like it did. I guess it's offensive to some, but not as offensive as that guy's argumentum ad hitler would have been.

I have to say, the first thought that passed through my mind on seeing this thread title was a horrifyingly politically incorrect "Jesus was black" exhibition taken down by the KKK or something.

Well, hell, the mayor of New Orleans used "Chocolate," so I guess it's alright. Never mind about politically incorrect.

ceo_esq · 31st March 2007, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Glen.Nogami

As for Choco-christ, I think it's absurd that the church went after it like it did.

Did the Church go after it too? I don't remember reading anything about that.

Lonewulf · 31st March 2007, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Those same people probably would get upset if a magician turned water into wine during a show.

Hell, if the wine wasn't used, then I would be upset too.

What a waste of wine.

For that matter, the people upset are wasting a lot of whine.

Kopji · 31st March 2007, 11:18 PM

Donahue is spokesman for an organization called the 'Catholic League'.
http://www.catholicleague.org/faqs.htm

Not affiliated with the Catholic Church, just filled with its members and clergy.

Once upon a time, there was a large and beautiful fruit tree with delicious fruit. A mysterious visitor came, and surrounded the tree by an invisible net that caught all the good fruit that fell and diverted it to a machine that coated it with something nasty tasting.

The fruit was then returned beneath the tree as if it has fallen from there. When the local townspeople came by to gather the fruit, they wrongly judged the tree harshly for producing bad fruit and chopped it down.

It was a lie because the bad fruit was really the fault of whoever ran the invisible net. When the townspeople died, they all burned in hell for their mistake.

The end

UnrepentantSinner · 1st April 2007, 12:11 AM

Bill Donahue is one of those honest to goodness crazy reactionaries that I am mindful of whenever I poopoo the derision of religious people around here.

Originally Posted by RandomElement

My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy.

Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive?

The answer is that some people are Kookoo for Coco Christ.

Pardalis · 1st April 2007, 12:14 AM

On a serious note, does anybody know how the artist accomplished this piece?

It doesn't really look much like a sculpture to me, but more like the artist used the mold of someone and filled it with chocolate.

I think the idea is interesting, given that we're close to Easter, but I don't think this art piece has much artistry in its making.

UnrepentantSinner · 1st April 2007, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

On a serious note, does anybody know how the artist accomplished this piece?

It doesn't really look much like a sculpture to me, but more like the artist used the mold of someone and filled it with chocolate.

One of my former co-workers had a wonderfully detailed bronze bust of an Indian Chief that he had made himself. Any half-competant metal worker could form a mold that would produce a statue and I imagine molten chocolate is much easier to work with than molten bronze.

mummymonkey · 1st April 2007, 12:49 AM

They should put it in a church for the faithful to bite lumps out of whilst mumbling something about the body of Christ.

Pardalis · 1st April 2007, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

One of my former co-workers had a wonderfully detailed bronze bust of an Indian Chief that he had made himself. Any half-competant metal worker could form a mold that would produce a statue and I imagine molten chocolate is much easier to work with than molten bronze.

That's not what I meant. I meant the making of the body doesn't seem sculpted by hand, it seems it was molded on someone, you know like when they make latex molds of people for movies.

bignickel · 1st April 2007, 03:57 AM

(Depeche Mode)
You're my

Chocolate

Jesus

Someone who tastes the best

Someone who's blessed
(/Depeche Mode)

pgwenthold · 1st April 2007, 11:35 AM

So reading through the thread, and the transcript of the exchange, I'm still trying to figure it out.

What is offensive about this?

Jesus has been portrayed in pretty much every artistic medium ever envisioned, chocolate just being another. So it's ok to have a wood or plaster Jesus but not chocolate?

Or is it just because he is naked?

As far as I can see, it is representation of Jesus on the cross. What's offensive about it?

This Guy · 1st April 2007, 02:05 PM

That Jesus guy was kinda skinny.

I want a chocolate Buddha!

More Chocolate!

Yummy

(hmmm Maybe this is why no one has tried making little choco Christ to put in Easter baskets?)

Darth Rotor · 1st April 2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

So reading through the thread, and the transcript of the exchange, I'm still trying to figure it out.

What is offensive about this?

Jesus has been portrayed in pretty much every artistic medium ever envisioned, chocolate just being another. So it's ok to have a wood or plaster Jesus but not chocolate?

Or is it just because he is naked?

As far as I can see, it is representation of Jesus on the cross. What's offensive about it?

Ah, do we dare cross post the discussion from P & CE on this same news story?

Quote:

Cavallaro has received threats and is in hiding.

Threats of bodily harm? *sigh* I guess the age of vitriol continues.

WWJD? I don't think he'd threaten the artist's life.

DR

ponderingturtle · 2nd April 2007, 06:47 AM

What do people think is the source of the contraversy?

That it is an edible jesus and not made out of bread(or vaguely bread like substance)?

That it is anitomicaly correct?

That it was not made out of white chocolate?

30th March 2007, 04:36 PM	#1
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Gallery told to shut down chocolate Jesus I wonder what anyone here makes of this: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...esus30-ON.html A planned Holy Week exhibition of a nude, anatomically correct chocolate sculpture of Jesus Christ was canceled Friday amid a choir of complaining Catholics that included Cardinal Edward Egan. The "My Sweet Lord" display was shut down by the hotel that houses the Lab Gallery in midtown Manhattan, said Matt Semler, the gallery's creative director. Semler said he submitted his resignation after officials at the Roger Smith Hotel shut down the show. The six-foot sculpture was the victim of "a strong-arming from people who haven't seen the show, seen what we're doing," Semler said. "They jumped to conclusions completely contrary to our intentions." But word of the confectionary Christ infuriated Catholics, including Egan, who described it as "a sickening display." Bill Donohue, head of the watchdog Catholic League, said it was "one of the worst assaults on Christian sensibilities ever." The hotel and the gallery were overrun Thursday with angry phone calls and e-mails about the exhibit. Semler said the calls included death threats over the work of artist Cosimo Cavallaro, who was described as disappointed by the decision to cancel the display. I wonder how much different this really is to the muslim response to the Muhammed cartoons. I would take the death threats here far less seriously, but still... it is eerily similar to me.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

30th March 2007, 04:42 PM	#3
Marquis de Carabas Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: vuori Posts: 27,106	[singing] Chocolate Jesus! Chocolate Jesus! Overstimulates endocrine glands He's so creamy, smooth and brown I lick him up and I lick him down Yes, he melts in my mouth, not in my hands [/singing]
	__________________ Jesus ... wasn't he the bloke who turned fish into wine and made the lepers multiply? -KateHL Violence is more acceptable than incest. I have been told to keep this in mind.

30th March 2007, 04:44 PM	#4
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	I think those people are just weird. I wonder if they thought for a second of the artist was christian or not. I doubt they care. So jesus is chocolate? So what? So he's naked? Don't they also realize that a depiction of a guy being crucified is rather disturbing in the first place?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

30th March 2007, 04:46 PM	#6
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 8,192	chocolate jesus..... mmm sacrelicious
	__________________ "Contentment is found in the music of Bach, the books of Tolstoy and the equations of Dirac, not at the wheel of a BMW or the aisles of Harvey Nicks."

30th March 2007, 04:47 PM	#7
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	I'm guessing there was very little actual thinking that went into their reaction at all. I think it mostly a gut-level emotional response. Probably gave some of them flashbacks to the jesus-in-a-jar-of-urine that was around a few years ago.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

30th March 2007, 04:41 PM	#2
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	Aaargh, now I'm going to think of this story every time I hear that stupid George Harrison song.

30th March 2007, 04:45 PM	#5
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	Some penis-free chocolate Jesus's here: http://chocolatefantasies.com/religious.htm

30th March 2007, 04:50 PM	#8
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	Those same people probably would get upset if a magician turned water into wine during a show.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

30th March 2007, 04:55 PM	#9
NotJesus Unsaviory Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: LA Posts: 5,474	Don't go to church on Sunday Don't get on my knees to pray Don't memorize the books of the Bible I got my own special way But I know Jesus loves me Maybe just a little bit more I fall on my knees every Sunday At Zerelda Lee's candy store Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus To make me feel good inside Got to be a chocolate Jesus To keep me satisfied Well I don't want no Anna Zabba Don't want no Almond Joy There ain't nothing better Suitable for this boy Well it's the only thing That can pick me up Better than a cup of gold See only a chocolate Jesus Can satisfy my soul When the weather gets rough And it's whiskey in the shade It's best to wrap your savior Up in cellophane He flows like the big muddy But that's ok Pour him over ice cream For a nice parfait Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus Good enough for me Got to be a chocolate Jesus Good enough for me Well it's got to be a chocolate Jesus To make me feel good inside Got to be a chocolate Jesus To keep me satisfied --Tom Waits & Kathleen Brennan
	__________________ I have now reread what I've just written, and I see that I'm much more intelligent than what I've written. How does it come about that what an intelligent man expresses is much stupider than what remains inside him? -Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Adolescent

30th March 2007, 05:04 PM	#10
Björn Toulouse Cavitus Rectum Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: miles from Nowhere Posts: 1,406	I can do anything I pleases long as I got my chocolate Jesus riding on the dashboard of my car. But in the summer it ain't funny when it gets all bright and sunny and he melts and drips like gooey tar...
	__________________ The most complete and happy victory is this: to compel one's enemy to give up his purpose, while suffering no harm oneself. Belisarius

30th March 2007, 05:09 PM	#11
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by NotJesus Don't go to church on Sunday Don't get on my knees to pray Don't memorize the books of the Bible I got my own special way But I know Jesus loves me Maybe just a little bit more I fall on my knees every Sunday At Zerelda Lee's candy store... Damn! You beat me to it. That's one of my favorite Tom Waits songs.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

30th March 2007, 06:48 PM	#12
RandomElement Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 300	My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy. Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive?

30th March 2007, 07:36 PM	#13
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by RandomElement My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy. Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive? Not if it had coconut filling.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

30th March 2007, 07:42 PM	#14
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 6,142	Were there chocolate malted-milk balls on the Jesus?
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge

30th March 2007, 08:41 PM	#15
strathmeyer seriously unable to be serious Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 2,382	Is the cross made of pretzel?

30th March 2007, 10:45 PM	#16
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	Wohoo! Whoa. Bill Donohue just verbally duked it out in a rockem sockem interview on CNN with artist Cosimo Cavallaro. Donohue resorted to a Godwin-like comparison calling swastikas art, if this was. Cosimo punched back by saying Donohue was much more like a Nazi than he was. Cavallaro has received threats and is in hiding. The hotel closed the show and has been harmed financially. Donohue seemed very proud of that. The funny thing is, CNN showed a full frontal view of the chocolate statue during almost the whole interview. Donohue proudly and loudly portrayed the Catholic church as a powerful and dangerous political force that could force a private business into bankruptcy it wanted. Smash an art show. Do what it wants. The artist spoke like, well an artist. Somewhat genuinely bemused at all the fuss. An artist in hiding and in fear for his friends. Does the Catholic church really think that this 'Goliath vs David' tactic is very smart? That aligning the massive resources of an religio-political machine against an artist is a good idea? The Catholic church was shown to be a dangerous force today all right. I hope they enjoy what comes along with this.

30th March 2007, 10:53 PM	#17
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	The bloggers already have it. This oughta be good. http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/

30th March 2007, 11:52 PM	#18
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	CNN replayed it.

31st March 2007, 08:06 AM	#19
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Wow! I had no idea the reaction was quite that... strident. Yikes.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

31st March 2007, 08:15 AM	#20
grayman Happy-go-lucky Heretic Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Casa del Whacko Posts: 6,142	Imagine the reaction to a chocolate Mohamed.
	__________________ Stupidity is a condition. Ignorance is a choice. - Wiley All great truths begin as blasphemies. - George Bernard Shaw God is evil. As soon as you accept that, it all makes sense. - Sledge

31st March 2007, 04:18 PM	#21
darnell11 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 136	I wonder if the artist is gonna eat it now...I would.
darnell11 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 136

31st March 2007, 06:59 PM	#22
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	Donohue actually ranted a bit about if the Jesus would be eaten. I don't remember exactly what Cosimo's words were, but he seemed a little surprised at the thought. we do not eat the art

31st March 2007, 07:21 PM	#23
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	The transcript is online now. Worth a view if it's repeated though. Some snips. Quote: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...30/acd.01.html COOPER: Cosimo, do you understand the outrage this has caused? I mean, do you think it's overreaction? Do you get it? C. CAVALLARO: Yes, I get it. I think it's an overreaction. You just heard the gentleman calling artists losers, or me a loser. I think what he's -- his assault is on the public at large, artists, and freedom of speech, and every Catholic. I'm a Catholic, and I'm a Christian. And I think this gentleman doesn't even represent the people that are in his faith. DONAHUE: That's funny. You said I put out a fatwa, right? Or the -- or the -- that was the -- the guy who ran the lab, says I put out a fatwa. I put out a news release. So, you're accusing me of being like the Taliban; is that right? C. CAVALLARO: Who, me? You're not that intelligent. (LAUGHTER) DONAHUE: Oh, no, let me tell you something. You're -- you're lucky I'm not as mean, because you might lose more than your head. COOPER: Cosimo, did you want people to eat this? Was that part of this? C. CAVALLARO: No. Did you hear what this gentleman is saying, that I would lose my head? DONAHUE: No, I -- you heard what I said. I said you're -- you're lucky I'm not like the Taliban, because you would lose more than your head, which is why... C. CAVALLARO: Right. So, therefore... (CROSSTALK) Quote: ...COOPER: But, Bill, doesn't -- doesn't -- I mean, don't people have a right to express themselves? And isn't that what art is about? Aren't artists supposed to provoke thought? DONAHUE: That's right. And, if we -- and if we put a swastika out on a stamp in the United States, we could call that art. It was an art exhibition. I don't think Jews would go for that. Just because art is art doesn't mean that it is a right that is absolute. Art can be insulting and it can be offensive. And when these people are whining, claiming victim status, as this guy is doing, because of my exercise of my First Amendment right of freedom of speech -- I didn't call the cops to come in and censor this. I'm simply saying I called up about 500 of my friends and -- running different Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and non- sectarian organizations to boycott the Roger Smith Hotel. They're morally bankrupt. I want to see them financially bankrupt. Quote: DONAHUE: Look, you lost. You know what? You put your middle finger at the Catholic Church, and we just broke it, didn't we, pal? C. CAVALLARO: No. You're wrong. You're wrong. DONAHUE: Yes, we did. You lost. C. CAVALLARO: I have a lot of believers. DONAHUE: We -- we won. You're out of a job. C. CAVALLARO: And I'm a Christian. And there's a lot of people like me, who are opposed to what you're doing, because you made a big... DONAHUE: Yes? But I got a job, and you don't. C. CAVALLARO: You made a -- "I got a job, and you don't"? DONAHUE: Yes. C. CAVALLARO: You're acting like a 5-year-old. DONAHUE: I got a job, and you don't. C. CAVALLARO: You're talking -- you're acting like a 5-year-old. And I feel sorry for you. COOPER: All right. We're going to -- we're... DONAHUE: Well, I won on this, and you lost, didn't you? COOPER: Well, let's -- let's leave it there. You both expressed your opinions.
	Last edited by Kopji; 31st March 2007 at 07:24 PM.

31st March 2007, 07:25 PM	#24
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	Hmm.. transcript shows that neither person is very articulate. I will admit that Donahue did sound extremely childish and dismissed the fact that Cooper is a Christian.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

31st March 2007, 07:41 PM	#25
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	The end was sort of argument by 'neener neener'.

31st March 2007, 07:43 PM	#26
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	Originally Posted by Kopji The end was sort of argument by 'neener neener'. I know you are, but what am I?
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

31st March 2007, 09:40 PM	#27
Glen.Nogami Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 495	What a truly sad debate. I mean, learn to think on your feet, folks! As for Choco-christ, I think it's absurd that the church went after it like it did. I guess it's offensive to some, but not as offensive as that guy's argumentum ad hitler would have been. I have to say, the first thought that passed through my mind on seeing this thread title was a horrifyingly politically incorrect "Jesus was black" exhibition taken down by the KKK or something. Well, hell, the mayor of New Orleans used "Chocolate," so I guess it's alright. Never mind about politically incorrect.
	__________________ Every valley shall be exalted and every mountain and hill shall be made low. -Isaiah 40:4

31st March 2007, 10:47 PM	#28
ceo_esq Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,940	Originally Posted by Glen.Nogami As for Choco-christ, I think it's absurd that the church went after it like it did. Did the Church go after it too? I don't remember reading anything about that.
ceo_esq Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,940

31st March 2007, 11:17 PM	#29
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Those same people probably would get upset if a magician turned water into wine during a show. Hell, if the wine wasn't used, then I would be upset too. What a waste of wine. For that matter, the people upset are wasting a lot of whine.
	__________________ Writing.com Account

31st March 2007, 11:18 PM	#30
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	Donahue is spokesman for an organization called the 'Catholic League'. http://www.catholicleague.org/faqs.htm Not affiliated with the Catholic Church, just filled with its members and clergy. Once upon a time, there was a large and beautiful fruit tree with delicious fruit. A mysterious visitor came, and surrounded the tree by an invisible net that caught all the good fruit that fell and diverted it to a machine that coated it with something nasty tasting. The fruit was then returned beneath the tree as if it has fallen from there. When the local townspeople came by to gather the fruit, they wrongly judged the tree harshly for producing bad fruit and chopped it down. It was a lie because the bad fruit was really the fault of whoever ran the invisible net. When the townspeople died, they all burned in hell for their mistake. The end

1st April 2007, 12:11 AM	#31
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,356	Bill Donahue is one of those honest to goodness crazy reactionaries that I am mindful of whenever I poopoo the derision of religious people around here. Originally Posted by RandomElement My only question about "Cocoa Christ" is: how does anyone know that the statue depicts Christ? Because the artist said so? I would wager any amount that there is zero resemblance other than basic male anatomy. Why not design a chocolate T-Rex and call it "The Chocolate Christ"? Would that be offensive? The answer is that some people are Kookoo for Coco Christ.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

1st April 2007, 12:14 AM	#32
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	On a serious note, does anybody know how the artist accomplished this piece? It doesn't really look much like a sculpture to me, but more like the artist used the mold of someone and filled it with chocolate. I think the idea is interesting, given that we're close to Easter, but I don't think this art piece has much artistry in its making.

1st April 2007, 12:39 AM	#33
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,356	Originally Posted by Pardalis On a serious note, does anybody know how the artist accomplished this piece? It doesn't really look much like a sculpture to me, but more like the artist used the mold of someone and filled it with chocolate. One of my former co-workers had a wonderfully detailed bronze bust of an Indian Chief that he had made himself. Any half-competant metal worker could form a mold that would produce a statue and I imagine molten chocolate is much easier to work with than molten bronze.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

1st April 2007, 12:49 AM	#34
mummymonkey Did you spill my pint? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,917	They should put it in a church for the faithful to bite lumps out of whilst mumbling something about the body of Christ.
	__________________ Knees bent, arms stretched, Ra! Ra! Ra!

1st April 2007, 01:09 AM	#35
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner One of my former co-workers had a wonderfully detailed bronze bust of an Indian Chief that he had made himself. Any half-competant metal worker could form a mold that would produce a statue and I imagine molten chocolate is much easier to work with than molten bronze. That's not what I meant. I meant the making of the body doesn't seem sculpted by hand, it seems it was molded on someone, you know like when they make latex molds of people for movies.