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saizai · 5th April 2007, 07:37 PM

The way Phelps (and others) back the "fags are EEEEEEVIL!" line is basically, the NT repeats the OT on that point in saying "yeah, don't do it" and the OT is all "STONE THEM!!!!". (Of course it says that about a bunch of other quote-unquote "ceremonial laws" too [like working on the Sabbath, even to gather firewood; or disobeying your master if you're a slave]. Sucks to be them eh?)

So what I want is a list: what, besides the very generic sort of stuff, is reiterated? I.e. what harsh stuff from the OT has the NT's approval? (And isn't in the "well that was the Old Covenant; would've sucked to live then but we don't!" list.)

Here's the start:

all ten commandments
caveat: you're allowed to work on sabbath, so ignore that one.
no gay sex (lesbian sex? maybe)
caveat: nobody is allowed to enforce the punishments (e.g. "stoning to death") unless they're perfect, which they're not. but god will punish everything with eternal torture, so that should be good enough.

Reminder: please ONLY discuss stuff that is in the OT and is explicitly upheld in the NT. If it's "upheld with caveats", that is okay too, just try not to go too long about the boring ones or about ones were the "caveat" totally guts it. Please cite all relevant verses if you know them.

Thanks!

Hokulele · 5th April 2007, 09:57 PM

All of the women are second-class citizens stuff. Basically, much of what Paul writes. I Corinthians has an extensive section on what women should not do (such as speaking in church).

clarsct · 5th April 2007, 10:03 PM

I Corinthians is a great place to find a lot of OT stuff reiterated.

Bellatrix · 5th April 2007, 11:07 PM

I Corinthians... there's something I never thought I'd have to see again. Everything in Corinthians exists to reiterate that women are a lesser creation and brought orgional sin to humanity. Everything from women being silent to women having to cover their heads in church has OT roots.

Gwyn ap Nudd · 5th April 2007, 11:24 PM

Basically, the Jews made a distinction between the Mosaic Law (mainly expounded in Leviticus and Deuteronomy), which the Jews had to follow and the Noahide Law that the righteous Gentiles (Gentiles who decided to follow the God of Israel without undergoing full conversion to Judaism) had to follow.

The Seven Noahide Laws are the following:

Prohibition of idolatry
Prohibition of blasphemy
Prohibition of murder
Prohibition of theft
Prohibition of illicit relations
Prohibition of eating live meat
Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice

The two passages in the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 10-11 and Acts 21) which are used to excuse Christians from the Mosaic Law seems to say that Gentile converts to Christianity do not need to convert to Judaism first.

It is not clear whether "buggery" was originally included in the prohibition against "illicit relations" (incest) or not, but because of its inclusion in the two Leviticus lists of forbidden sex, it is usually included now.

Of course, there is nothing to stop any self-appointed preacher from adding more rules to the list, as the previous posters claim the author of 1 Corinthians did.

saizai · 6th April 2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nudd

Prohibition of eating live meat

No yogurt?

rserocki · 6th April 2007, 09:30 PM

I don't know if this counts or not. Matthew 15:4, Jesus saying, "He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death," or words similar depending on the translation.

bruto · 6th April 2007, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Hokulele

All of the women are second-class citizens stuff. Basically, much of what Paul writes. I Corinthians has an extensive section on what women should not do (such as speaking in church).

Some version of the basic message (wives be subject to husbands, etc.) occurs in many of Paul's letters. Peter tosses it in too. And don't forget to cover your head.

Hokulele · 6th April 2007, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by bruto

Some version of the basic message (wives be subject to husbands, etc.) occurs in many of Paul's letters. Peter tosses it in too. And don't forget to cover your head.

Well, since they are forcasting plenty of sun for tomorrow, that isn't such bad advice.

5th April 2007, 07:37 PM	#1
saizai Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,374	OT laws that are upheld in the NT The way Phelps (and others) back the "fags are EEEEEEVIL!" line is basically, the NT repeats the OT on that point in saying "yeah, don't do it" and the OT is all "STONE THEM!!!!". (Of course it says that about a bunch of other quote-unquote "ceremonial laws" too [like working on the Sabbath, even to gather firewood; or disobeying your master if you're a slave]. Sucks to be them eh?) So what I want is a list: what, besides the very generic sort of stuff, is reiterated? I.e. what harsh stuff from the OT has the NT's approval? (And isn't in the "well that was the Old Covenant; would've sucked to live then but we don't!" list.) Here's the start: all ten commandments caveat: you're allowed to work on sabbath, so ignore that one. no gay sex (lesbian sex? maybe) caveat: nobody is allowed to enforce the punishments (e.g. "stoning to death") unless they're perfect, which they're not. but god will punish everything with eternal torture, so that should be good enough. Reminder: please ONLY discuss stuff that is in the OT and is explicitly upheld in the NT. If it's "upheld with caveats", that is okay too, just try not to go too long about the boring ones or about ones were the "caveat" totally guts it. Please cite all relevant verses if you know them. Thanks!
saizai Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,374	__________________ Friendly advice: if in an argument with me, don't make tons of fallacies or you'll just embarass yourself when I call you on 'em. Kthx! See my Youtube videos for more good argument, as well as bits about my various other interests, like ASL, cogsci, neurosci, meditation, cooking, etc.

5th April 2007, 09:57 PM	#2
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,349	All of the women are second-class citizens stuff. Basically, much of what Paul writes. I Corinthians has an extensive section on what women should not do (such as speaking in church).
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

5th April 2007, 10:03 PM	#3
clarsct Humor Impaired Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The Cultural Desert Posts: 4,910	I Corinthians is a great place to find a lot of OT stuff reiterated.
	__________________ When Religion becomes State, and breaking the Law becomes Sin, then Dissenters will become Heretics. Oh nonsense. Still not hugging you. -Kiless Forum Tosser and Skirt Chaser

5th April 2007, 11:07 PM	#4
Bellatrix Student Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Washington D.C. Posts: 44	I Corinthians... there's something I never thought I'd have to see again. Everything in Corinthians exists to reiterate that women are a lesser creation and brought orgional sin to humanity. Everything from women being silent to women having to cover their heads in church has OT roots.
	__________________ Guilt is one of the primary weapons in good's arsenal. -Order of the Stick #68

5th April 2007, 11:24 PM	#5
Gwyn ap Nudd Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 381	Basically, the Jews made a distinction between the Mosaic Law (mainly expounded in Leviticus and Deuteronomy), which the Jews had to follow and the Noahide Law that the righteous Gentiles (Gentiles who decided to follow the God of Israel without undergoing full conversion to Judaism) had to follow. The Seven Noahide Laws are the following: Prohibition of idolatry Prohibition of blasphemy Prohibition of murder Prohibition of theft Prohibition of illicit relations Prohibition of eating live meat Prohibition of failing to establish courts of justice The two passages in the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 10-11 and Acts 21) which are used to excuse Christians from the Mosaic Law seems to say that Gentile converts to Christianity do not need to convert to Judaism first. It is not clear whether "buggery" was originally included in the prohibition against "illicit relations" (incest) or not, but because of its inclusion in the two Leviticus lists of forbidden sex, it is usually included now. Of course, there is nothing to stop any self-appointed preacher from adding more rules to the list, as the previous posters claim the author of 1 Corinthians did.

6th April 2007, 12:15 PM	#6
saizai Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,374	Originally Posted by Gwyn ap Nudd Prohibition of eating live meat No yogurt?
saizai Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,374	__________________ Friendly advice: if in an argument with me, don't make tons of fallacies or you'll just embarass yourself when I call you on 'em. Kthx! See my Youtube videos for more good argument, as well as bits about my various other interests, like ASL, cogsci, neurosci, meditation, cooking, etc.

6th April 2007, 09:30 PM	#7
rserocki Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 52	I don't know if this counts or not. Matthew 15:4, Jesus saying, "He that shall curse father or mother, let him die the death," or words similar depending on the translation.

6th April 2007, 10:23 PM	#8
bruto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy Posts: 11,261	Originally Posted by Hokulele All of the women are second-class citizens stuff. Basically, much of what Paul writes. I Corinthians has an extensive section on what women should not do (such as speaking in church). Some version of the basic message (wives be subject to husbands, etc.) occurs in many of Paul's letters. Peter tosses it in too. And don't forget to cover your head.
	__________________ "Sir, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding.(Samuel Johnson) The gods are less for their love of praise....(Wendell Berry)

6th April 2007, 10:24 PM	#9
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,349	Originally Posted by bruto Some version of the basic message (wives be subject to husbands, etc.) occurs in many of Paul's letters. Peter tosses it in too. And don't forget to cover your head. Well, since they are forcasting plenty of sun for tomorrow, that isn't such bad advice.
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey