the (real) masked magi

Peter Morris · 31st July 2003, 04:18 PM

What do magicians on this forum think of The Masked Magician and his Secrets Of Magic Revealed tv shows? Should this guy, whoever he is be banned from magic clubs? What would you like to do to/with/about him?

Voob · 31st July 2003, 06:44 PM

He's a dick.

john_v_h · 1st August 2003, 09:43 AM

His name is Leonard Montano and he worked as Valentino.

The whole affair is probably a tiny blip on the public consciousness by now. Best thing is to ignore it. Magic is more about presentation and entertainment than secrets anyway.

Diamond · 8th August 2003, 05:24 AM

A: All the conjurers I know hate him for revealing secrets to something that they do TO ENTERTAIN and make a living out of.

Cain · 11th August 2003, 11:36 AM

I think he's a really cool guy. Most other magicians need to get over themselves.

Valentino's dedicated to a free and open exchange of ideas. At least he doesn't profit off people by lying to them.

And besides, wasn't it Richard Dawkins who said that the solution to a problem is often more beautiful than the mystery itself? Who else is tired of paternalistic magicians all too willing to lie in the best interests of others? Oh, and please remember to "think about the children."

Thank God for media outlets like Fox driven to spreading the truth (even if it means incurring the wrath of thousands of disgruntled magicians).

Valentino will probably go down as one of the greatest conjurers of all time -- the People's magician! Speaking truth to power.

Kevin_Lowe · 11th August 2003, 11:04 PM

Half of the things he "revealed" in the one show I saw were pretty damned obvious.

"Hey, when a magician pushes an egg through a brick wall, they just palm the egg! Magic!". (Footage accompanying the trick shows that MM can't make this trick look impressive).

If you couldn't figure that one out you aren't too bright in my opinion.

But apart from that kind of tediousness, I thought the shows were fun. If you don't want to know how those tricks are done, don't watch. If you don't want people to know how you do your tricks, make up your own tricks and keep them to yourself.

Voob · 12th August 2003, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Who else is tired of paternalistic magicians all too willing to lie in the best interests of others?

Were you abused by a magician as a small child?

Really, it's a pretty negative approach. Does anybody else feel this way? Go to a magic show and think "Buncha liars!"
?

Brown · 12th August 2003, 09:00 AM

I have seen Valentino perform on television (as himself, not as the masked magician). He was actually pretty good. Too bad he chose to acquire the reputation of being a sell-out.

I tend to agree that many of the "secrets" disclosed in the shows weren't all that secret. For one thing, some of the secrets were disclosed by other magicians (Mac King comes to mind), who teach people simple tricks to amaze their friends. Other secrets pertained to illusions that are so lame that no self-respecting performer would perform them at all, or would perform them as demonstrated on the shows.

The shows had a lot of "filler."

But there were some secrets that were shown that should not have been shown. The disclosure had a whiff of malice, in which one magician, under the pretense of educating the public, sought to sabotage the performances of his competitors.

Silicon · 12th August 2003, 05:32 PM

I liked the shows, because I like learning how magic tricks work.

Entertainment. Voila.

If magic is about presentation, most magicians aren't, in my book.

The truely great ones usually aren't the famous ones, with the exception of Penn & Teller, who gave away a few secrets in their time, as well.

I love their performance of the Cups and Balls with clear cups. A masterpiece, as was "Blast Off" a clear version of a cabinet illusion. A thousand times more entertaining than any cabinet illusion I've ever seen.

There's something about a magician performing a trick like the Cups and Balls. Knowing that trick's been around since the Pharoes.

I always kind of get the feeling that most magicians are just doing old tricks that they didn't earn themselves anyway.

What's wrong with revealing a few of the old chestnuts and making folks have to come up with some new ones for a change?

Like those damn linking rings!

It's no wonder magic is a dying artform! Audiences are sick of paying money to see those same 20 tricks!

If I see one more candle-to-cane or milk-into-newspaper-cone, I'll puke!

homunculus · 30th August 2003, 06:45 AM

Doesn't bother me that much anymore. It used to wind me up something chronic, but since then I've realised that even people who've watched the shows don't tend to remember much about them. The same effect performed in a different setting, or with different window dressing, and people are astonished all over again.

Paul.

Dogwood · 30th August 2003, 04:20 PM

Voob is right.

He's a dick.

Cecil · 18th September 2003, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cain
Thank God for media outlets like Fox driven to spreading the truth...

Yes, thank God for them. If it weren't for Fox, I might actually still believe that we once landed on the moon.

Zep · 18th September 2003, 07:41 PM

I'm a non-magician. I have no problem with him revealing what seemed to me to be appallingly obvious tricks that even kids could deduce easily.

If it means that other magicians get a metaphorical kick in the tail to start creating newer and better magic then so be it! The good ones who entertain will, the duds will drop off.

31st July 2003, 04:18 PM	#1
Peter Morris Muse Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 939	the (real) masked magi What do magicians on this forum think of The Masked Magician and his Secrets Of Magic Revealed tv shows? Should this guy, whoever he is be banned from magic clubs? What would you like to do to/with/about him?
Peter Morris Muse Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 939

31st July 2003, 06:44 PM	#2
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316	He's a dick.
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316

1st August 2003, 09:43 AM	#3
john_v_h Student Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 28	His name is Leonard Montano and he worked as Valentino. The whole affair is probably a tiny blip on the public consciousness by now. Best thing is to ignore it. Magic is more about presentation and entertainment than secrets anyway.
john_v_h Student Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 28

11th August 2003, 11:36 AM	#5
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,825	I think he's a really cool guy. Most other magicians need to get over themselves. Valentino's dedicated to a free and open exchange of ideas. At least he doesn't profit off people by lying to them. And besides, wasn't it Richard Dawkins who said that the solution to a problem is often more beautiful than the mystery itself? Who else is tired of paternalistic magicians all too willing to lie in the best interests of others? Oh, and please remember to "think about the children." Thank God for media outlets like Fox driven to spreading the truth (even if it means incurring the wrath of thousands of disgruntled magicians). Valentino will probably go down as one of the greatest conjurers of all time -- the People's magician! Speaking truth to power.
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these buuuuullshit Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! Niggah pleeze.

12th August 2003, 08:26 AM	#7
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316	Quote: Who else is tired of paternalistic magicians all too willing to lie in the best interests of others? Were you abused by a magician as a small child? Really, it's a pretty negative approach. Does anybody else feel this way? Go to a magic show and think "Buncha liars!" ?
Voob Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 316

8th August 2003, 05:24 AM	#4
Diamond SkepticWiki Founder Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 'Stralia Posts: 4,748	A: All the conjurers I know hate him for revealing secrets to something that they do TO ENTERTAIN and make a living out of.

11th August 2003, 11:04 PM	#6
Kevin_Lowe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Queensland Posts: 5,089	Half of the things he "revealed" in the one show I saw were pretty damned obvious. "Hey, when a magician pushes an egg through a brick wall, they just palm the egg! Magic!". (Footage accompanying the trick shows that MM can't make this trick look impressive). If you couldn't figure that one out you aren't too bright in my opinion. But apart from that kind of tediousness, I thought the shows were fun. If you don't want to know how those tricks are done, don't watch. If you don't want people to know how you do your tricks, make up your own tricks and keep them to yourself.

12th August 2003, 09:00 AM	#8
Brown Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 9,025	I have seen Valentino perform on television (as himself, not as the masked magician). He was actually pretty good. Too bad he chose to acquire the reputation of being a sell-out. I tend to agree that many of the "secrets" disclosed in the shows weren't all that secret. For one thing, some of the secrets were disclosed by other magicians (Mac King comes to mind), who teach people simple tricks to amaze their friends. Other secrets pertained to illusions that are so lame that no self-respecting performer would perform them at all, or would perform them as demonstrated on the shows. The shows had a lot of "filler." But there were some secrets that were shown that should not have been shown. The disclosure had a whiff of malice, in which one magician, under the pretense of educating the public, sought to sabotage the performances of his competitors.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

12th August 2003, 05:32 PM	#9
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644	I liked the shows, because I like learning how magic tricks work. Entertainment. Voila. If magic is about presentation, most magicians aren't, in my book. The truely great ones usually aren't the famous ones, with the exception of Penn & Teller, who gave away a few secrets in their time, as well. I love their performance of the Cups and Balls with clear cups. A masterpiece, as was "Blast Off" a clear version of a cabinet illusion. A thousand times more entertaining than any cabinet illusion I've ever seen. There's something about a magician performing a trick like the Cups and Balls. Knowing that trick's been around since the Pharoes. I always kind of get the feeling that most magicians are just doing old tricks that they didn't earn themselves anyway. What's wrong with revealing a few of the old chestnuts and making folks have to come up with some new ones for a change? Like those damn linking rings! It's no wonder magic is a dying artform! Audiences are sick of paying money to see those same 20 tricks! If I see one more candle-to-cane or milk-into-newspaper-cone, I'll puke!
Silicon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,644

30th August 2003, 06:45 AM	#10
homunculus Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 93	Doesn't bother me that much anymore. It used to wind me up something chronic, but since then I've realised that even people who've watched the shows don't tend to remember much about them. The same effect performed in a different setting, or with different window dressing, and people are astonished all over again. Paul.
homunculus Scholar Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 93

30th August 2003, 04:20 PM	#11
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	Voob is right. He's a dick.
Dogwood (dogwood) Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 596	__________________ I can't read this.

18th September 2003, 06:37 PM	#12
Cecil Muse Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 990	Quote: Originally posted by Cain Thank God for media outlets like Fox driven to spreading the truth... Yes, thank God for them. If it weren't for Fox, I might actually still believe that we once landed on the moon.
	__________________ "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein "The common man marvels at the uncommon; the wise man marvels at the commonplace." --Confucious "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." --Bertrand Russell

18th September 2003, 07:41 PM	#13
Zep Guest Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 24,230	I'm a non-magician. I have no problem with him revealing what seemed to me to be appallingly obvious tricks that even kids could deduce easily. If it means that other magicians get a metaphorical kick in the tail to start creating newer and better magic then so be it! The good ones who entertain will, the duds will drop off.
Zep Guest Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 24,230