Bush Kills 6 Canadians

Charlie Monoxide · 9th April 2007, 07:46 AM

Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric, but it still bugs me that Bush and his merry band could have had at least 1 major success during in his administration, if they had finished Afghanistan properly (including the capture of bin Laden).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ghanistan/home

I'm sure there still more body bags begging to be filled ....

Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide

Darth Rotor · 9th April 2007, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

Bush Kills 6 Canadians

Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide

Did this happen while quail hunting?

DR

Mephisto · 9th April 2007, 07:59 AM

Too bad Bush didn't announce Mission Accomplished in Afghanistan.

RandFan · 9th April 2007, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric, but it still bugs me that Bush and his merry band could have had at least 1 major success during in his administration, if they had finished Afghanistan properly (including the capture of bin Laden).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ghanistan/home

I'm sure there still more body bags begging to be filled ....

Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide

It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong.

Darth Rotor · 9th April 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Too bad Bush didn't announce Mission Accomplished in Afghanistan.

He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad.

DR

steverino · 9th April 2007, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad.

DR

Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City.

Charlie Monoxide · 9th April 2007, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong.

Define "very successful" ....

Charlie (Iraq was suppose to be the "cake walk") Monoxide

Mephisto · 9th April 2007, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad.

DR

I heard they were considering changing it to Jalalagood.

RandFan · 9th April 2007, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

Define "very successful" ....

Charlie (Iraq was suppose to be the "cake walk") Monoxide

Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

Darth Rotor · 9th April 2007, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City.

Baghdad is pretty easy to pronounce. So too is Ramadi. Fallujah is a bit trickier, or can be, but Al Kut was really simple.

I think your hypothesis needs a bit of rework.

DR

Darth Rotor · 9th April 2007, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mephisto

I heard they were considering changing it to Jalalagood.

I expect someone from Dobson's office called, and asked W if they could change it to

Ja la la la la, la la la laaah

in honor of Christmas.

DR

LawnOven · 9th April 2007, 08:59 AM

I like saying "Jalalabad"; sometimes I sing it.

D'rok · 9th April 2007, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

My definition of unsuccessful is the current Karzai government, which has little control or influence outside of Kabul.

My opinion is that any attempt to enforce a certain type of governance on a people whose traditions are completely inhospitable to it will be unsuccessful. The Soviets couldn't make the various tribes communists, The British couldn't make them good little colonials, we won't be able to make them democrats.

I'll freely admit that events could end up proving me wrong.

steverino · 9th April 2007, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Baghdad is pretty easy to pronounce...
I think your hypothesis needs a bit of rework.

DR

Well this guy is hard to pronounce, and he deserves being blown to smitherenes, IMO.

*

با 1354 هجري شمسي در روستاي ارادان از شهرستان گرمسار، چشم به جهان گشود و از يک سالگي به همراه خانواده در تهران اقامت گزيد. وي دوران تحصيلات ابتدايي ، راهنمايي و متوسطه خود را در اين شهر گذراند و در سال 1335دکتر محمود احمدي نژاد در سال به عضويت هيات علمي دانشکده عمران دانشگاه علم و صنعت 1368 در مقطع کارشناسي ارشد همان دانشگاه پذيرفته شد و در سال 1365 کنکور سراسري گزينش دانشجو، تحصيلات عالي خود را در رشته مهندسي عمران دانشگاه علم و صنعت آغاز کرد و در سال 132کسب رتبه موفق به دريافت مدرک تحصيلي دکتراي مهندسي و برنامه ريزي حمل و نقل از دانشگاه علم و صنعت گرديد . ايشان به زبان انگليسي آشنايي دارند و طي سال هاي تدريس در اين دانشگاه و تدوين مقالات و پژوهش هاي متعدد علمي ، راهنمايي ده ها پايان 1376در آمد و در سال نامه کارشناسي ارشد و دکتراي تخصصي در زمينه هاي مختلف مهندسي عمران ، راه و حمل و نقل و مديريت ساخت را بر عهده داشته است.

دکتر احمدي نژاد پيش از پيروزي انقلاب اسلامي در کسوت دانشجو و با شرکت در مجالس مذهبي و سياسي وارد فضاي سياسي جامعه شد و پس از پيروزي انقلاب اسلامي با توجه به حضور در دانشگاه از پايه گذاران انجمن اسلامي دانشجويان دانشگاه علم و صنعت ايران بود و در دوران جنگ تحميلي به عنوان داوطلب بسيجي در قسمت هاي متعدد جبهه به ويژه مهندسي رزمي به خدمت پرداخت و اين مهم را تا پايان دوران دفاع مقدس ادامه داد. دکتر احمدي نژاد متاهل و داراي سه فرزند- دو پسر و يک دختر – مي*باشد.

Charlie Monoxide · 9th April 2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

I'm pretty sure the objective of the Afghanistan invasion by coalition forces was NOT to "do what the Soviets couldn't" If that was the case, we should have immediately handed Afghanistan over to the Soviets after the Taliban was generally routed (and say "neener neener neener").

I personally feel that the invasion is NOT successful, but may be at some point in the future. Please check out the Wiki link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...during_Freedom

"The initial military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan."

Charlie (are we there yet?) Monoxide

D'rok · 9th April 2007, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

"The initial military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan."

Bingo. Somehow we got derailed into nation-building.

ponderingturtle · 9th April 2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong.

You are so right. It is so unreasonable to think that diverting assets and public consciousness from there would have any sort of detrimental result for our goals.

ponderingturtle · 9th April 2007, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

Wrong we have had relatively many casualties in Afghanistan. It is a more dangerous posting for the troops there than Iraq. Iraq just has enough more troops that people forget about that the percentage of casualties in Afghanistan is higher.

ponderingturtle · 9th April 2007, 09:30 AM

If the theory of unpronounceable names being the refuge of terrorists does this mean what we will start bombing wales next?

With places like

Llanfairpwllgwyngyll

They have to be next.

ponderingturtle · 9th April 2007, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by dlacone

Bingo. Somehow we got derailed into nation-building.

That is because the idea came along that failed states ferment terrorism.

I guess we could periodicaly invade afganistan every few years and acomplish those goals repeatedly.

D'rok · 9th April 2007, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

That is because the idea came along that failed states ferment terrorism.

I guess we could periodicaly invade afganistan every few years and acomplish those goals repeatedly.

There's quite the history of failed attempts at nation-building in Afghanistan. IMHO we would be better served focusing on the original goals as stated in Charlie's post.

Not only that, but by destroying what civil society the Afghanis had (barbaric and oppressive as it was) we've created a brand new failed state. Eventually we will leave, and the power vacuum will be filled by the usual suspects - tribal warlords and islamists.

a_unique_person · 9th April 2007, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time.

Charlie Monoxide · 9th April 2007, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time.

I don't think RandFan will answer the question ....

Charlie (very successful response) Monoxide

Earthborn · 9th April 2007, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Define unsuccessful?

Doing what you claimed you were going to do.
Not making a mess out of it that is worse than what you started with.

Quote:

We did what the Soviets couldn't.

What a strange claim. The Soviet Union was fighting the Mujahideen who were supported by the US. The US supported the same group of people to fight the Taliban. So the US never tried to do the same thing the Soviets couldn't, they did the opposite. They let others do their fighting for them, twice.

Quote:

We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.

That's because the US left a lot of the fighting to the 'Northern Alliance' who did suffer a lot of casualties (not to mention causing them).

ponderingturtle · 10th April 2007, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by dlacone

There's quite the history of failed attempts at nation-building in Afghanistan. IMHO we would be better served focusing on the original goals as stated in Charlie's post.

Not only that, but by destroying what civil society the Afghanis had (barbaric and oppressive as it was) we've created a brand new failed state. Eventually we will leave, and the power vacuum will be filled by the usual suspects - tribal warlords and islamists.

But the tribal warlords and islamists where the leaders that we have suppostedly destroyed to make it a failed state

Molinaro · 10th April 2007, 05:06 AM

Why blame Bush?

Why not blame the Canadian military?

Lonewulf · 10th April 2007, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by steverino

Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City.

Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S.

No! Really!

WildCat · 10th April 2007, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time.

But their arsenal is made up almost entirely of Russian-made hardware, isn't it?

aggle-rithm · 10th April 2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S.

No! Really!

Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.

aggle-rithm · 10th April 2007, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S.

No! Really!

Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.

Katana · 10th April 2007, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Molinaro

Why blame Bush?

Why not blame the Canadian military?

Or perhaps the Taliban?

Ziggurat · 10th April 2007, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric,

If you know it's BS, then why the hell did you say it, Charlie (hates Bush more than the Taliban) Monoxide?

D'rok · 10th April 2007, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

But the tribal warlords and islamists where the leaders that we have suppostedly destroyed to make it a failed state

Before we arrived the Taliban had more or less solidified their control of the country - such as it was. The Warlords were marginalized. We didn't destroy either group, we scattered them. What we did do was destroy the nascent stability. Now it's anybody's game after we leave. Maybe something better than the Taliban regime will emerge, but I think it's bloody unlikely.

Exactly how we could have destroyed Al Qaeda without destroying Afghanistan I really don't know, but I sure wish we had tried. I think one of the main problems is that we are stuck in a Westphalian warfare mindset - we just cannot deal with non-state actors who do not have standing armies or easy bombing targets.

D'rok · 10th April 2007, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Molinaro

Why blame Bush?

Why not blame the Canadian military?

Because the military doesn't decide which wars they get sent to. That's what governments do. Blaming Bush is a bit of a non sequitr though. The Liberal govt of Jean Chretien ordered the deployment.

The Canadian military is doing everything it can to safeguard the troops while attempting to accomplish all of the ill-defined and futile missions that are inevitable in quagmires.

Ziggurat · 10th April 2007, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by dlacone

What we did do was destroy the nascent stability.

Yes: the Taliban had imposed the stability of the grave. We should rush to bring that back.

aggle-rithm · 10th April 2007, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S.

No! Really!

Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.

D'rok · 10th April 2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yes: the Taliban had imposed the stability of the grave. We should rush to bring that back.

Please don't spin my post as support for the Taliban regime.

The purpose of the mission was to destroy Al Qaeda, not to spread liberal democracy. I am arguing against misguided idealism and mission creep.

I'm not an expert, but I do have some perspective beyond the usual keyboard warrior. I worked at the Canadian Department of National Defence providing IT support for NATO operations in Afghanistan. My security clearance gave me access to operational intelligence, and I needed to know what was going on in order to do my job.

Pardalis · 10th April 2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Katana

Or perhaps the Taliban?

Exactly.

Charlie Monoxide · 10th April 2007, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

If you know it's BS, then why the hell did you say it, Charlie (hates Bush more than the Taliban) Monoxide?

I guess the corollary of "hates Bush more than the Taliban" would mean I love the Taliban more than Bush. This is true. I had 2 for lunch ....

Charlie (they were deeeelish) Monoxide

The Kilted Yaksman · 10th April 2007, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.

I'm sure there are some African villages whose names use multiple glottal stops that have to be high on the list...

9th April 2007, 07:46 AM	#1
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Bush Kills 6 Canadians Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric, but it still bugs me that Bush and his merry band could have had at least 1 major success during in his administration, if they had finished Afghanistan properly (including the capture of bin Laden). http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ghanistan/home I'm sure there still more body bags begging to be filled .... Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

9th April 2007, 07:48 AM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide Bush Kills 6 Canadians Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide Did this happen while quail hunting? DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

9th April 2007, 07:59 AM	#3
Mephisto Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: in a state of disbelief Posts: 6,065	Too bad Bush didn't announce Mission Accomplished in Afghanistan.
	__________________ "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" Mahatma Gandhi

9th April 2007, 08:06 AM	#4
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,153	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric, but it still bugs me that Bush and his merry band could have had at least 1 major success during in his administration, if they had finished Afghanistan properly (including the capture of bin Laden). http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ghanistan/home I'm sure there still more body bags begging to be filled .... Charile (RIP fellow Canucks) Monoxide It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

9th April 2007, 08:20 AM	#5
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Mephisto Too bad Bush didn't announce Mission Accomplished in Afghanistan. He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

9th April 2007, 08:37 AM	#6
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad. DR Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

9th April 2007, 08:38 AM	#7
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Originally Posted by RandFan It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong. Define "very successful" .... Charlie (Iraq was suppose to be the "cake walk") Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

9th April 2007, 08:46 AM	#8
Mephisto Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: in a state of disbelief Posts: 6,065	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor He's still working on how to pronounce Jalalabad. DR I heard they were considering changing it to Jalalagood.
	__________________ "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" Mahatma Gandhi

9th April 2007, 08:49 AM	#9
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,153	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide Define "very successful" .... Charlie (Iraq was suppose to be the "cake walk") Monoxide Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

9th April 2007, 08:54 AM	#10
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by steverino Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City. Baghdad is pretty easy to pronounce. So too is Ramadi. Fallujah is a bit trickier, or can be, but Al Kut was really simple. I think your hypothesis needs a bit of rework. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 9th April 2007 at 09:02 AM.

9th April 2007, 08:56 AM	#11
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Mephisto I heard they were considering changing it to Jalalagood. I expect someone from Dobson's office called, and asked W if they could change it to Ja la la la la, la la la laaah in honor of Christmas. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

9th April 2007, 08:59 AM	#12
LawnOven robot Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 1,306	I like saying "Jalalabad"; sometimes I sing it.
	__________________ Principia Discordia

9th April 2007, 09:00 AM	#13
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by RandFan Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan. My definition of unsuccessful is the current Karzai government, which has little control or influence outside of Kabul. My opinion is that any attempt to enforce a certain type of governance on a people whose traditions are completely inhospitable to it will be unsuccessful. The Soviets couldn't make the various tribes communists, The British couldn't make them good little colonials, we won't be able to make them democrats. I'll freely admit that events could end up proving me wrong.

9th April 2007, 09:08 AM	#14
steverino Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 3,688	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Baghdad is pretty easy to pronounce... I think your hypothesis needs a bit of rework. DR Well this guy is hard to pronounce, and he deserves being blown to smitherenes, IMO. * با 1354 هجري شمسي در روستاي ارادان از شهرستان گرمسار، چشم به جهان گشود و از يک سالگي به همراه خانواده در تهران اقامت گزيد. وي دوران تحصيلات ابتدايي ، راهنمايي و متوسطه خود را در اين شهر گذراند و در سال 1335دکتر محمود احمدي نژاد در سال به عضويت هيات علمي دانشکده عمران دانشگاه علم و صنعت 1368 در مقطع کارشناسي ارشد همان دانشگاه پذيرفته شد و در سال 1365 کنکور سراسري گزينش دانشجو، تحصيلات عالي خود را در رشته مهندسي عمران دانشگاه علم و صنعت آغاز کرد و در سال 132کسب رتبه موفق به دريافت مدرک تحصيلي دکتراي مهندسي و برنامه ريزي حمل و نقل از دانشگاه علم و صنعت گرديد . ايشان به زبان انگليسي آشنايي دارند و طي سال هاي تدريس در اين دانشگاه و تدوين مقالات و پژوهش هاي متعدد علمي ، راهنمايي ده ها پايان 1376در آمد و در سال نامه کارشناسي ارشد و دکتراي تخصصي در زمينه هاي مختلف مهندسي عمران ، راه و حمل و نقل و مديريت ساخت را بر عهده داشته است. دکتر احمدي نژاد پيش از پيروزي انقلاب اسلامي در کسوت دانشجو و با شرکت در مجالس مذهبي و سياسي وارد فضاي سياسي جامعه شد و پس از پيروزي انقلاب اسلامي با توجه به حضور در دانشگاه از پايه گذاران انجمن اسلامي دانشجويان دانشگاه علم و صنعت ايران بود و در دوران جنگ تحميلي به عنوان داوطلب بسيجي در قسمت هاي متعدد جبهه به ويژه مهندسي رزمي به خدمت پرداخت و اين مهم را تا پايان دوران دفاع مقدس ادامه داد. دکتر احمدي نژاد متاهل و داراي سه فرزند- دو پسر و يک دختر – مي*باشد.
	__________________ "Ferchrissakes I am not Jewish..."- Darth Rotor "Well, my nipples are pink. I've never looked at my own butt-hole, but I hope it's pink too." Mycroft "In the military, a gay man might see a wiener, and we all know that when a gay man sees a wiener, he goes into an uncontrollable frenzy of lust."- Marquis de Carabas

9th April 2007, 09:09 AM	#15
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Originally Posted by RandFan Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure the objective of the Afghanistan invasion by coalition forces was NOT to "do what the Soviets couldn't" If that was the case, we should have immediately handed Afghanistan over to the Soviets after the Taliban was generally routed (and say "neener neener neener"). I personally feel that the invasion is NOT successful, but may be at some point in the future. Please check out the Wiki link: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...during_Freedom "The initial military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan." Charlie (are we there yet?) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

9th April 2007, 09:13 AM	#16
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide "The initial military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan." Bingo. Somehow we got derailed into nation-building.

9th April 2007, 09:24 AM	#17
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by RandFan It's far worse than rhetoric. It's gravely naive or intellectually dishonest. There is nothing to suppose that thngs should have been different in Afghanastan. We have been very succesful there considereing the crap the Soviets went through when they went to war with Afghanastan. Anyone whoever thought this was going to be a cake walk was wrong. You are so right. It is so unreasonable to think that diverting assets and public consciousness from there would have any sort of detrimental result for our goals.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th April 2007, 09:25 AM	#18
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by RandFan Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan. Wrong we have had relatively many casualties in Afghanistan. It is a more dangerous posting for the troops there than Iraq. Iraq just has enough more troops that people forget about that the percentage of casualties in Afghanistan is higher.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th April 2007, 09:30 AM	#19
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	If the theory of unpronounceable names being the refuge of terrorists does this mean what we will start bombing wales next? With places like Llanfairpwllgwyngyll They have to be next.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th April 2007, 09:32 AM	#20
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by dlacone Bingo. Somehow we got derailed into nation-building. That is because the idea came along that failed states ferment terrorism. I guess we could periodicaly invade afganistan every few years and acomplish those goals repeatedly.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

9th April 2007, 07:37 PM	#21
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle That is because the idea came along that failed states ferment terrorism. I guess we could periodicaly invade afganistan every few years and acomplish those goals repeatedly. There's quite the history of failed attempts at nation-building in Afghanistan. IMHO we would be better served focusing on the original goals as stated in Charlie's post. Not only that, but by destroying what civil society the Afghanis had (barbaric and oppressive as it was) we've created a brand new failed state. Eventually we will leave, and the power vacuum will be filled by the usual suspects - tribal warlords and islamists.

9th April 2007, 09:14 PM	#22
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,322	Originally Posted by RandFan Define unsuccessful? We did what the Soviets couldn't. We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan. I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

9th April 2007, 09:48 PM	#23
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	Originally Posted by a_unique_person I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time. I don't think RandFan will answer the question .... Charlie (very successful response) Monoxide
	__________________ Major General Wag of JREF

9th April 2007, 10:26 PM	#24
Earthborn Terrestrial Intelligence Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Terra Firma Posts: 5,647	Originally Posted by RandFan Define unsuccessful? Doing what you claimed you were going to do. Not making a mess out of it that is worse than what you started with. Quote: We did what the Soviets couldn't. What a strange claim. The Soviet Union was fighting the Mujahideen who were supported by the US. The US supported the same group of people to fight the Taliban. So the US never tried to do the same thing the Soviets couldn't, they did the opposite. They let others do their fighting for them, twice. Quote: We have had relatively few casualties in Afghanistan. That's because the US left a lot of the fighting to the 'Northern Alliance' who did suffer a lot of casualties (not to mention causing them).
	__________________ Perhaps nothing is entirely true; and not even that! Multatuli

10th April 2007, 05:03 AM	#25
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,421	Originally Posted by dlacone There's quite the history of failed attempts at nation-building in Afghanistan. IMHO we would be better served focusing on the original goals as stated in Charlie's post. Not only that, but by destroying what civil society the Afghanis had (barbaric and oppressive as it was) we've created a brand new failed state. Eventually we will leave, and the power vacuum will be filled by the usual suspects - tribal warlords and islamists. But the tribal warlords and islamists where the leaders that we have suppostedly destroyed to make it a failed state
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th April 2007, 05:06 AM	#26
Molinaro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,027	Why blame Bush? Why not blame the Canadian military?
	__________________ 100% Cannuck!

10th April 2007, 05:09 AM	#27
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by steverino Terrorists disproportionately operate in areas with names difficult for English-speakers to pronounce. Oh, except that one place, New York City. Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S. No! Really!
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10th April 2007, 05:39 AM	#28
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 48,985	Originally Posted by a_unique_person I don't think the Soviets are backing the Mujuhadeen this time. But their arsenal is made up almost entirely of Russian-made hardware, isn't it?

10th April 2007, 06:23 AM	#29
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,149	Originally Posted by Lonewulf Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S. No! Really! Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

10th April 2007, 07:00 AM	#30
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,149	Originally Posted by Lonewulf Yeah, I mean, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but there are other countries besides England and the U.S. No! Really! Right, someone mentioned Wales earlier.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

10th April 2007, 07:53 AM	#31
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Originally Posted by Molinaro Why blame Bush? Why not blame the Canadian military? Or perhaps the Taliban?
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

10th April 2007, 07:57 AM	#32
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,181	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide Yes, I know it's BS rhetoric, If you know it's BS, then why the hell did you say it, Charlie (hates Bush more than the Taliban) Monoxide?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

10th April 2007, 08:01 AM	#33
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle But the tribal warlords and islamists where the leaders that we have suppostedly destroyed to make it a failed state Before we arrived the Taliban had more or less solidified their control of the country - such as it was. The Warlords were marginalized. We didn't destroy either group, we scattered them. What we did do was destroy the nascent stability. Now it's anybody's game after we leave. Maybe something better than the Taliban regime will emerge, but I think it's bloody unlikely. Exactly how we could have destroyed Al Qaeda without destroying Afghanistan I really don't know, but I sure wish we had tried. I think one of the main problems is that we are stuck in a Westphalian warfare mindset - we just cannot deal with non-state actors who do not have standing armies or easy bombing targets.

10th April 2007, 08:04 AM	#34
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,233	Originally Posted by Molinaro Why blame Bush? Why not blame the Canadian military? Because the military doesn't decide which wars they get sent to. That's what governments do. Blaming Bush is a bit of a non sequitr though. The Liberal govt of Jean Chretien ordered the deployment. The Canadian military is doing everything it can to safeguard the troops while attempting to accomplish all of the ill-defined and futile missions that are inevitable in quagmires.

10th April 2007, 08:07 AM	#35
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,181	Originally Posted by dlacone What we did do was destroy the nascent stability. Yes: the Taliban had imposed the stability of the grave. We should rush to bring that back.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law