SecondLife

EHLO · 11th April 2007, 10:23 PM

The idea of a world entirely dependant on software is an attractive one (as a software developer) so the thought of setting up shop in SecondLife, and coding up nik-naks for people seems like quite an attractive proposition.

Unfortunately I haven't yet had the patience to get past "Orientation Island" or whatever it's called.

Any other software developers out there had a play in SecondLife? Anyone given up their day job to pursue a virtual vocation?

Starthinker · 12th April 2007, 10:09 AM

I've been on second life for some time now, mainly so I can visit casinos without losing money. I had a thread started on this a while back. I do see some interesting artwork around but other than gambling I don't really see much else to do there unless you are into hot cartoon sex, which I'm not. To me, it's mainly like a really fancy chat room. Chat, gamble, look at the art others created (some is really worth the effort to find), play around. I even tried opening a store but I didn't really want my credit card deducted every month for my "plot" so I gave that up.

Upon really close inspection it's hard to find people really making money there although many claims are made. I've contacted several casino owners and they admit they are barely breaking even. Still, I started with $5 (real money) and if I cashed out now I'd probably have $60 or so. Not bad for six months worth of gambling.

Edited to add: I work in a basement all alone so I do have it open sometimes all day and one thing I've noticed is that their "grid" crashes constantly, sometimes for hours, and they issue more updates than Microsoft. There are other glitches (try gambling for hours only to discover your account doesn't show any of your winnings, you can't do anything about it, they're just gone) and if you don't sport the latest video card, forget it. I've loaded this on at least six computers and it only runs on one. Just thought you'd like to hear the downside, too.

roger · 12th April 2007, 10:18 AM

I looked at it briefly, and abandoned the idea. The tools to do things like build things, create animations, etc., are pretty clunky. Then I looked at various sources to figure out how long it took other people to do certain things, and the probable payback. It just didn't add up, plus, working with those tools would quickly become very unpleasant.

But, this is not based on actual experience of making stuff to sell, but just playing with the tools some. I had no real marketing data. If doing that kind of stuff seems fun, why not code up a car or something and see what you can sell it for. If you make no money it was still fun.

cyborg · 12th April 2007, 12:48 PM

Am I the only person left in the world who hates this kind of crap?

(And I say this as a confirmed computer geek).

rserocki · 12th April 2007, 01:11 PM

I used to be on there semi-often, ending with maybe being online every few days, but it became massively unstable for me. Someone I know who has no experience to speak of with my OS but loathes it anyway (MacOS X) thought the problem had to be because of my computer and that I needed to update the driver for my graphics card, but I found later that this has been a wide-ranging problem across operating systems, regardless of high-powered hardware, so I gave up and stopped trying to get on. Maybe someday I'll check to see if there's been a new client released and if that works any better, but I've fairly lost interest.

I do have a friend who's created programs to sell there -- I think he created a dragon cam, something for people with huge dragon avatars that couldn't see where they were going well because their appearance blocked the rest of their view.

jnelso99 · 12th April 2007, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Am I the only person left in the world who hates this kind of crap?

(And I say this as a confirmed computer geek).

I am a geek, and I have yet to do any online gaming at all. I hate people in real life, so why should I want to have anything to do with them in a virtual life?

cyborg · 12th April 2007, 05:18 PM

Well I'm not that cynical about people in general - it's just I really don't see the point in these sorts of time-sucking devices. I'd much rather get drunk.

Achán hiNidráne · 12th April 2007, 05:25 PM

I tried out Second Life for about two days and I quickly got bored with it. The learning curve was way to steep and I wasn't about to pay money so I can play on what amounts to a glorified instant messanger.

Wake me up when it becomes interesting.

EHLO · 12th April 2007, 05:59 PM

Well it seems my impressions of SecondLife so far are well founded - perhaps this belongs in the technological flops thread.

I was intrigued by the hype though, and plenty of companies/organisations are pouring money into setting up shop there so it spiked my gravy train monitor.

Ta.

EHLO · 12th April 2007, 06:10 PM

One other thing that tweaked my interest was that it seemed like a good educational environment to demonstrate physical and even evolutionary processes by coding up the necessary objects.

Apparently one of the reasons that the grid, or specific servers at least, crash is that users occasionally introduce uncontrolled self replicating objects. So there must be considerable freedom in terms of object development.

Charlie Monoxide · 14th April 2007, 08:35 AM

I tried Second Life last year after reading an article in Wired. It was pretty neat at first, but I lost interest quickly. Even though I have cable internet, Second Life was very slow to load when you moved around.

I still like the concept and may return.

I use to play Asheron's Call way back in 2000-2002. Heck, I even tried it again on a 2 week free trial a few weeks back. It felt like a comfy old shoe, dated graphics and all. I lost interest again.

I love the escapism af a MMO. I've played most of them. Everquest II was nice, but after not playing for a couple of months, I dropped my subscription.

I wouldn't mind getting into a new one, maybe Eve ....

Charlie (Second Life? I don't even have a First Life) Monoxide

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Well I'm not that cynical about people in general - it's just I really don't see the point in these sorts of time-sucking devices. I'd much rather get drunk.

Then go get drunk, and leave the people that are into this alone.

Am I the only person that's not into the getting drunk crap? I don't get the point in brain-killing time-sucking mind-altering devices. But I'm sure that you enjoyed hearing my opinion on your hobby.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

I tried Second Life last year after reading an article in Wired. It was pretty neat at first, but I lost interest quickly. Even though I have cable internet, Second Life was very slow to load when you moved around.

The graphics software is crap. It loads everything up real-time, and doesn't have any kind of a cache or anything like that...

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I still like the concept and may return.

As do I.

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Then go get drunk, and leave the people that are into this alone.

Please, like I'm actually persecuting you or something.

Get over yourself.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Please, like I'm actually persecuting you or something.

Get over yourself.

I never said you were.

I just don't get the point in going into a thread about a subject, and then going, "Oh! I hate this kind of crap! Listen to me talk about how horrible this is! I'd rather get drunk! Listen to me, please!"

Then go get drunk, please. Kill yourself with the booze for all I care.

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 10:31 AM

Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh?

But it's nice to know where you stand on alcohol related issues.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh?

An inordinate amount of time socializing? Oh, perish the thought!

Apparently when it's online, people suddenly aren't people anymore in your world.

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But it's nice to know where you stand on alcohol related issues.

I haven't proclaimed any standpoint on alcohol. You said you're rather get drunk. Then please, go get drunk. That's your preference.

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

An inordinate amount of time socializing? Oh, perish the thought!

Yeah... that's what I said.

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Apparently when it's online, people suddenly aren't people anymore in your world.

That's right. There's no difference at all. Nuh-uh.

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I haven't proclaimed any standpoint on alcohol.

Whatever you say.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Yeah... that's what I said.

Doesn't matter if that's what you said or not. Second Life is a an online interactive environment that's mainly designed for socializing. You have something against this because it's online or something.

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That's right. There's no difference at all. Nuh-uh.

Yeah... that's what I said.

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Whatever you say.

OMG! THE ROLL EYES AND DISMSSAL!! MAKES YOU LOOK SMRT!

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Doesn't matter if that's what you said or not. Second Life is a an online interactive environment that's mainly designed for socializing. You have something against this because it's online or something.

Not really, it's the pointless premise of replicating a virtual world, not the socialising aspect. I hate these sorts of pointless exercises in activity.

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Yeah... that's what I said.

People aren't people anymore in my world when they're online is what you said. Care to admit that was a stupid thing to say now?

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OMG! THE ROLL EYES AND DISMSSAL!! MAKES YOU LOOK SMRT!

Thanks.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Not really, it's the pointless premise of replicating a virtual world, not the socialising aspect. I hate these sorts of pointless exercises in activity.

Hm...

So they develop an online society, their own virtual economic system that's directly tied in with RL economic system, they have an environment where anyone that logs on can potentially help construct the world around them...

And it's pointless. I guess because it's not very good at it? Why do you hate this "crap"?

You consider it pointless. Others do not.

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People aren't people anymore in my world when they're online is what you said. Care to admit that was a stupid thing to say now?

Well, you said:

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Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh?

Apparently, you can't get to know anyone online. That's a stupid thing to say. Care to admit that it was a stupid thing to say now? If not, then I stand by my statement.

When I'm born, everyone is someone I don't know. I get to know them. That's how the real world works. That's also how the online world works.

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Thanks.

Anytime.

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

And it's pointless. I guess because it's not very good at it? Why do you hate this "crap"?

No, you got me, I suck at games you can't lose.

Please, I've already pointed out why I think it's crap - issues of quality aside that really do make it crap whether or not you like the premise.

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You consider it pointless. Others do not.

Really? No, really? That's odd. It's almost as if people can have different opinions about things.

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Apparently, you can't get to know anyone online.

Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable.

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When I'm born, everyone is someone I don't know. I get to know them. That's how the real world works. That's also how the online world works.

Uh huh. So I said something contrary to this where?

geni · 14th April 2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by EHLO

Apparently one of the reasons that the grid, or specific servers at least, crash is that users occasionally introduce uncontrolled self replicating objects. So there must be considerable freedom in terms of object development.

There is. I think Linden Labs are haveing trouble createing a turing incomplete programing language that doesn't place anoying restrictions on what people can do.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by cyborg

No, you got me, I suck at games you can't lose.

I assume you're responding to this: "I guess because it's not very good at it?"

"It"

"It"

I never said "you".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it

"It" is in reference to Second Life.

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Please, I've already pointed out why I think it's crap - issues of quality

I scrolled up, and all I see you saying is that you hate "crap like this" and that you're rather get drunk than deal with people online.

Second Life, in itself, has an issue of quality? Or any game that attempts to do what it has done, now and into the future? You were unspecific.

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aside that really do make it crap whether or not you like the premise.

"Proof of concept". I consider SL a prototype.

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Really? No, really? That's odd. It's almost as if people can have different opinions about things.

And am I the only one that doesn't like crap like your opinion? Really?

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Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable.

Then that's great. Go do it in person. Log off right now and go play basketball.

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Uh huh. So I said something contrary to this where?

Let me quote you again, as your memory seems to be leaking today:

You said: "Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh?"

I don't know about you, but I spent time on SL with people that I did know. Not all players are involved with people that they don't know, and even if they are, then they often get to know the people that they're dealing with. Just like real life.

Do you wish to retract your statement?

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

"It"

"It"

I never said "you"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it

Okay then... don't have a stroke.

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Second Life, in itself, has an issue of quality? Or any game that attempts to do what it has done?

No. Stop being dense. There are quality issues with the game. They are noted in this thread. What else would I be referring to?

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"Proof of concept". I consider SL a prototype.

Wow. I don't care.

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And am I the only one that doesn't like crap like your opinion? Really?

Oh you funny. You real funny.

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Then that's great. Go do it in person. Log off right now and go play basketball.

It's dark outside, there's no court nearby and I don't have a ball.

I'll pass and organise my time as I see fit thanks.

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Do you wish to retract your statement?

No, since it makes little difference. I don't quite know why you think it is particularly significant.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Okay then... don't have a stroke.

Don't worry about that.

I was just ensuring that you would understand.

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No. Stop being dense. There are quality issues with the game. They are noted in this thread. What else would I be referring to?

So by "this crap" at the beginning of the thread, I assume you only meant "Second Life"? I ask because I want to know exactly what you mean when you said "crap", so I know where you stand.

If Second Life did not have quality issues, you would find it less crap, or more crap?

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Wow. I don't care.

Good for you.

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Oh you funny. You real funny.

Thanks.

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It's dark outside, there's no court nearby and I don't have a ball.

Then watch television. It's supposed to be better. Either that, or read a book. Or go to bed.

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I'll pass and organise my time as I see fit thanks.

That's nice. But you're just being a hypocrite, then.

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No, since it makes little difference. I don't quite know why you think it is particularly significant.

Neither do I know why you think that my statement (that you wanted to be retracted) was significant either. Obviously truth has no value in this thread, so why bother?

Soapy Sam · 14th April 2007, 02:15 PM

This is kinda surreal.
Two (presumably) real people, bickering to no purpose on an internet forum about the value ( or lack thereof) of another internet application.

Are we doing real life now, or the other thing?
Come on guys. Chill.

I reckon people who read Gibson and Stephenson really want to see something like the Cyberspace they describe becoming "reality"- do I mean "reality"? I dunno any more. We need new vocabulary.

If "Secondlife"is pretty wet, isn't that what we might reasonably expect at this stage? Software always stretches the limits of available hardware - and it's usually games software that pushes hardest.

The consensus view seems to be that this is a worthwhile experiment, but it's early days yet, so if you're not a specific devotee it's best avoided for the present. Yes?

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

So by "this crap" at the beginning of the thread, I assume you only meant "Second Life"? I ask because I want to know exactly what you mean when you said "crap", so I know where you stand.

I find the premise nauseating.

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If Second Life did not have quality issues, you would find it less crap, or more crap?

Less by definition.

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Then watch television. It's supposed to be better. Either that, or read a book. Or go to bed.

You say that as if these are all mutually incompatible activities.

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That's nice. But you're just being a hypocrite, then.

Um, how? I don't believe I have demanded anyone else change what they do have I?

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Neither do I know why you think that my statement (that you wanted to be retracted) was significant either. Obviously truth has no value in this thread, so why bother?

Yeah... okay.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

The consensus view seems to be that this is a worthwhile experiment, but it's early days yet, so if you're not a specific devotee it's best avoided for the present. Yes?

"Wow. I don't care."

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by cyborg

I find the premise nauseating.

That's nice. I could say the same of some posters here.

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You say that as if these are all mutually incompatible activities.

You're spending time (an inordinate amount of time of it) talking to people on an internet forum.

Yet you attack the concept of people spending time online in Second Life.

Hypocrite.

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Um, how? I don't believe I have demanded anyone else change what they do have I?

You say that real life is innately better than being online. Yet you spend an inordinate amount of time online.

Hypocrite.

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Yeah... okay.

cyborg · 14th April 2007, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

You're spending time (an inordinate amount of time of it) talking to people on an internet forum.

Yet you attack the concept of people spending time online in Second Life.

Hypocrite.

Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say.

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You say that real life is innately better than being online. Yet you spend an inordinate amount of time online.

Hypocrite.

Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say.

Lonewulf · 14th April 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by cyborg

Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say.

Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say.

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Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable.

Explain this sentence. Doing what in person?

ETA: You know what? Forget it. You don't care about what Second Life could become? Fine. You find the premise nauseating? Fine. You obviously don't have anything to add. So please, you don't care and you find it nauseating; go away.

It's obvious you will provide nothing beneficial to this thread at all.

Z · 14th April 2007, 02:27 PM

Could you take the bickering to PMs maybe?

I tried Second Life for two days, but it became rapidly apparent that more than ten minutes playing caused my router to disconnect for some reason. So Second Life gets the death penalty.

rserocki · 15th April 2007, 03:48 PM

Wow, I didn't expect so many extra messages since I last checked this. I just returned to mention that I wanted to leave a message for someone so I checked to see if installing the latest Second Life client would help with all the earlier crashes, and it did -- I didn't crash once. Although, I found by this time that I'd lost interest, so I didn't stick around.

I would like to say there are some interesting places to visit there, such as this space museum (thumbnail gallery -- snapshots I took months ago) http://pics.livejournal.com/rserocki/gallery/00038sx3
Although I'm not really interested in it anymore, I appreciate all the work people did for stuff like that.

Lonewulf · 15th April 2007, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Z

Could you take the bickering to PMs maybe?

Nah, it's petered out.

If Cyborg wants to keep it up (and I doubt he does), we'll take it to PM. My apologies for letting it rage on.

Originally Posted by rserocky

I would like to say there are some interesting places to visit there, such as this space museum (thumbnail gallery -- snapshots I took months ago) http://pics.livejournal.com/rserocki/gallery/00038sx3
Although I'm not really interested in it anymore, I appreciate all the work people did for stuff like that.

That's one of the things I really liked about SL. It was used as a platform for instructing students, for therapy, and for educational museum stuff like this. People from all over the world, all over the nation, could come together and teach, socialize, interact, and create.

That's why I just don't get why someone can call that premise "revolting", even if SL itself tended to not work well..

EHLO · 15th April 2007, 06:24 PM

You guys crack me up

Thanks for the input. The educational opportunities alone seem to make the whole concept worthwhile, even if the current technology is lacking.

As far as money making goes, it's early days unless you're into gambling or porn, so reminds me of the internet 10 years ago - which is probably why I'd seriously consider jumping on board.

Lonewulf · 15th April 2007, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by EHLO

As far as money making goes, it's early days unless you're into gambling or porn, so reminds me of the internet 10 years ago - which is probably why I'd seriously consider jumping on board.

Nostalgia ftw!

mhaze · 22nd April 2007, 03:00 PM

Some time ago there was quite a bit of discussion about Linden releasing the source code to their system and then it being integrated with the Firefox browser. SL runs on servers, each one contains some 40 avatars (the details are well explained in a Wikipedia article). Not if but when something like this is integrated with FF, that is a really big deal.

If not the SL code (which well may be too unstable or unsuitable for technical reasons), then some similar 3d gaming environment code, integrated into FF, would appear to create the style of internet experience described by William Gibson in his various books, Neuromancer for starters. None of the above has anything to do with SL as it exists now, of course...

That would indeed be time to jack in.... And goodbye Microsoft!

Lonewulf · 22nd April 2007, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by mhaze

Some time ago there was quite a bit of discussion about Linden releasing the source code to their system and then it being integrated with the Firefox browser. SL runs on servers, each one contains some 40 avatars (the details are well explained in a Wikipedia article). Not if but when something like this is integrated with FF, that is a really big deal.

If not the SL code (which well may be too unstable or unsuitable for technical reasons), then some similar 3d gaming environment code, integrated into FF, would appear to create the style of internet experience described by William Gibson in his various books, Neuromancer for starters. None of the above has anything to do with SL as it exists now, of course...

That would indeed be time to jack in.... And goodbye Microsoft!

...

I'm pretty sure that plugging our brains into a full VR simulation that affects all of our five senses is a bit beyond us.

Besides, Second Life has fugly graphics.

I'd go into other reasons why your post makes no sense, but there's just too many...

And yes, I read Neuromancer, and am somewhat a fan of Gibson. I'm right now messing with Shadowrun 4e, which is loosely based off of Gibson's writings.

But in no way, shape, or form is our world even close to Gibson's vision. There isn't the dystopiac urban sprawl, the private take-overs of public affairs (I.E., police, etc.), and nor is there the ability to actually plug our minds into our hardware. The comparison is a bit... extreme. Like comparing a new law to 1984 extreme.

Z · 22nd April 2007, 03:55 PM

As to plugging into hardware... we are getting closer to this goal, though. Recently (forgive me for failing to look up the article first) I read about a new system of therapy in which a kid is to play some computer games... using his mind. They give him some electrodes, and he sits there and concentrates on playing the game. Apparently it's treatment for some kind of ADHD or something.

Another company makes neurofeedback systems, which employs a combination of conventional controls with brainwave systems to force you to focus more on what you're doing - if your attention wanders, the game becomes sluggish or doesn't work right. If you focus, you move faster, better, etc.

So, yeah, we're getting there.

11th April 2007, 10:23 PM	#1
EHLO Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Adelaide, AUS Posts: 283	SecondLife The idea of a world entirely dependant on software is an attractive one (as a software developer) so the thought of setting up shop in SecondLife, and coding up nik-naks for people seems like quite an attractive proposition. Unfortunately I haven't yet had the patience to get past "Orientation Island" or whatever it's called. Any other software developers out there had a play in SecondLife? Anyone given up their day job to pursue a virtual vocation?

12th April 2007, 10:09 AM	#2
Starthinker Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,014	I've been on second life for some time now, mainly so I can visit casinos without losing money. I had a thread started on this a while back. I do see some interesting artwork around but other than gambling I don't really see much else to do there unless you are into hot cartoon sex, which I'm not. To me, it's mainly like a really fancy chat room. Chat, gamble, look at the art others created (some is really worth the effort to find), play around. I even tried opening a store but I didn't really want my credit card deducted every month for my "plot" so I gave that up. Upon really close inspection it's hard to find people really making money there although many claims are made. I've contacted several casino owners and they admit they are barely breaking even. Still, I started with $5 (real money) and if I cashed out now I'd probably have $60 or so. Not bad for six months worth of gambling. Edited to add: I work in a basement all alone so I do have it open sometimes all day and one thing I've noticed is that their "grid" crashes constantly, sometimes for hours, and they issue more updates than Microsoft. There are other glitches (try gambling for hours only to discover your account doesn't show any of your winnings, you can't do anything about it, they're just gone) and if you don't sport the latest video card, forget it. I've loaded this on at least six computers and it only runs on one. Just thought you'd like to hear the downside, too.
	__________________ \|¦¦\|¦ \|¦\|\|\|\|¦\|\|\|¦\|\|¦¦\|¦\|\|\|\|\|\|\|¦\|¦¦¦¦\|¦¦¦¦\|\|¦\|¦\|¦¦\|¦ \|¦¦\|¦ He who doubts victory has already lost the battle. Below the navel there is neither religion nor truth. Last edited by Starthinker; 12th April 2007 at 10:22 AM.

12th April 2007, 12:48 PM	#4
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Am I the only person left in the world who hates this kind of crap? (And I say this as a confirmed computer geek).
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974

12th April 2007, 05:08 PM	#6
jnelso99 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 444	Originally Posted by cyborg Am I the only person left in the world who hates this kind of crap? (And I say this as a confirmed computer geek). I am a geek, and I have yet to do any online gaming at all. I hate people in real life, so why should I want to have anything to do with them in a virtual life?
jnelso99 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 444

12th April 2007, 05:18 PM	#7
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Well I'm not that cynical about people in general - it's just I really don't see the point in these sorts of time-sucking devices. I'd much rather get drunk.
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974

12th April 2007, 10:18 AM	#3
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	I looked at it briefly, and abandoned the idea. The tools to do things like build things, create animations, etc., are pretty clunky. Then I looked at various sources to figure out how long it took other people to do certain things, and the probable payback. It just didn't add up, plus, working with those tools would quickly become very unpleasant. But, this is not based on actual experience of making stuff to sell, but just playing with the tools some. I had no real marketing data. If doing that kind of stuff seems fun, why not code up a car or something and see what you can sell it for. If you make no money it was still fun.

12th April 2007, 01:11 PM	#5
rserocki Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 52	I used to be on there semi-often, ending with maybe being online every few days, but it became massively unstable for me. Someone I know who has no experience to speak of with my OS but loathes it anyway (MacOS X) thought the problem had to be because of my computer and that I needed to update the driver for my graphics card, but I found later that this has been a wide-ranging problem across operating systems, regardless of high-powered hardware, so I gave up and stopped trying to get on. Maybe someday I'll check to see if there's been a new client released and if that works any better, but I've fairly lost interest. I do have a friend who's created programs to sell there -- I think he created a dragon cam, something for people with huge dragon avatars that couldn't see where they were going well because their appearance blocked the rest of their view.

12th April 2007, 05:25 PM	#8
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	I tried out Second Life for about two days and I quickly got bored with it. The learning curve was way to steep and I wasn't about to pay money so I can play on what amounts to a glorified instant messanger. Wake me up when it becomes interesting.
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12th April 2007, 05:59 PM	#9
EHLO Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Adelaide, AUS Posts: 283	Well it seems my impressions of SecondLife so far are well founded - perhaps this belongs in the technological flops thread. I was intrigued by the hype though, and plenty of companies/organisations are pouring money into setting up shop there so it spiked my gravy train monitor. Ta.
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12th April 2007, 06:10 PM	#10
EHLO Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Adelaide, AUS Posts: 283	One other thing that tweaked my interest was that it seemed like a good educational environment to demonstrate physical and even evolutionary processes by coding up the necessary objects. Apparently one of the reasons that the grid, or specific servers at least, crash is that users occasionally introduce uncontrolled self replicating objects. So there must be considerable freedom in terms of object development.
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14th April 2007, 08:35 AM	#11
Charlie Monoxide Wag Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 2,761	I tried Second Life last year after reading an article in Wired. It was pretty neat at first, but I lost interest quickly. Even though I have cable internet, Second Life was very slow to load when you moved around. I still like the concept and may return. I use to play Asheron's Call way back in 2000-2002. Heck, I even tried it again on a 2 week free trial a few weeks back. It felt like a comfy old shoe, dated graphics and all. I lost interest again. I love the escapism af a MMO. I've played most of them. Everquest II was nice, but after not playing for a couple of months, I dropped my subscription. I wouldn't mind getting into a new one, maybe Eve .... Charlie (Second Life? I don't even have a First Life) Monoxide
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14th April 2007, 10:24 AM	#12
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Well I'm not that cynical about people in general - it's just I really don't see the point in these sorts of time-sucking devices. I'd much rather get drunk. Then go get drunk, and leave the people that are into this alone. Am I the only person that's not into the getting drunk crap? I don't get the point in brain-killing time-sucking mind-altering devices. But I'm sure that you enjoyed hearing my opinion on your hobby.
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14th April 2007, 10:26 AM	#13
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide I tried Second Life last year after reading an article in Wired. It was pretty neat at first, but I lost interest quickly. Even though I have cable internet, Second Life was very slow to load when you moved around. The graphics software is crap. It loads everything up real-time, and doesn't have any kind of a cache or anything like that... Quote: I still like the concept and may return. As do I.
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14th April 2007, 10:27 AM	#14
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf Then go get drunk, and leave the people that are into this alone. Please, like I'm actually persecuting you or something. Get over yourself.
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14th April 2007, 10:29 AM	#15
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Please, like I'm actually persecuting you or something. Get over yourself. I never said you were. I just don't get the point in going into a thread about a subject, and then going, "Oh! I hate this kind of crap! Listen to me talk about how horrible this is! I'd rather get drunk! Listen to me, please!" Then go get drunk, please. Kill yourself with the booze for all I care.
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14th April 2007, 10:31 AM	#16
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh? But it's nice to know where you stand on alcohol related issues.
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14th April 2007, 10:33 AM	#17
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh? An inordinate amount of time socializing? Oh, perish the thought! Apparently when it's online, people suddenly aren't people anymore in your world. Quote: But it's nice to know where you stand on alcohol related issues. I haven't proclaimed any standpoint on alcohol. You said you're rather get drunk. Then please, go get drunk. That's your preference.
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14th April 2007, 10:37 AM	#18
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf An inordinate amount of time socializing? Oh, perish the thought! Yeah... that's what I said. Quote: Apparently when it's online, people suddenly aren't people anymore in your world. That's right. There's no difference at all. Nuh-uh. Quote: I haven't proclaimed any standpoint on alcohol. Whatever you say.
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14th April 2007, 10:38 AM	#19
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Yeah... that's what I said. Doesn't matter if that's what you said or not. Second Life is a an online interactive environment that's mainly designed for socializing. You have something against this because it's online or something. Quote: That's right. There's no difference at all. Nuh-uh. Yeah... that's what I said. Quote: Whatever you say. OMG! THE ROLL EYES AND DISMSSAL!! MAKES YOU LOOK SMRT!
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14th April 2007, 10:46 AM	#20
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf Doesn't matter if that's what you said or not. Second Life is a an online interactive environment that's mainly designed for socializing. You have something against this because it's online or something. Not really, it's the pointless premise of replicating a virtual world, not the socialising aspect. I hate these sorts of pointless exercises in activity. Quote: Yeah... that's what I said. People aren't people anymore in my world when they're online is what you said. Care to admit that was a stupid thing to say now? Quote: OMG! THE ROLL EYES AND DISMSSAL!! MAKES YOU LOOK SMRT! Thanks.
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14th April 2007, 10:53 AM	#21
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Not really, it's the pointless premise of replicating a virtual world, not the socialising aspect. I hate these sorts of pointless exercises in activity. Hm... So they develop an online society, their own virtual economic system that's directly tied in with RL economic system, they have an environment where anyone that logs on can potentially help construct the world around them... And it's pointless. I guess because it's not very good at it? Why do you hate this "crap"? You consider it pointless. Others do not. Quote: People aren't people anymore in my world when they're online is what you said. Care to admit that was a stupid thing to say now? Well, you said: Quote: Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh? Apparently, you can't get to know anyone online. That's a stupid thing to say. Care to admit that it was a stupid thing to say now? If not, then I stand by my statement. When I'm born, everyone is someone I don't know. I get to know them. That's how the real world works. That's also how the online world works. Quote: Thanks. Anytime.
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14th April 2007, 11:01 AM	#22
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf And it's pointless. I guess because it's not very good at it? Why do you hate this "crap"? No, you got me, I suck at games you can't lose. Please, I've already pointed out why I think it's crap - issues of quality aside that really do make it crap whether or not you like the premise. Quote: You consider it pointless. Others do not. Really? No, really? That's odd. It's almost as if people can have different opinions about things. Quote: Apparently, you can't get to know anyone online. Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable. Quote: When I'm born, everyone is someone I don't know. I get to know them. That's how the real world works. That's also how the online world works. Uh huh. So I said something contrary to this where?
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14th April 2007, 11:03 AM	#23
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,578	Originally Posted by EHLO Apparently one of the reasons that the grid, or specific servers at least, crash is that users occasionally introduce uncontrolled self replicating objects. So there must be considerable freedom in terms of object development. There is. I think Linden Labs are haveing trouble createing a turing incomplete programing language that doesn't place anoying restrictions on what people can do.

14th April 2007, 12:20 PM	#24
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg No, you got me, I suck at games you can't lose. I assume you're responding to this: "I guess because it's* not very good at it?"* "It" "It" I never said "you". http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it "It" is in reference to Second Life. Quote: Please, I've already pointed out why I think it's crap - issues of quality I scrolled up, and all I see you saying is that you hate "crap like this" and that you're rather get drunk than deal with people online. Second Life, in itself, has an issue of quality? Or any game that attempts to do what it has done, now and into the future? You were unspecific. Quote: aside that really do make it crap whether or not you like the premise. "Proof of concept". I consider SL a prototype. Quote: Really? No, really? That's odd. It's almost as if people can have different opinions about things. And am I the only one that doesn't like crap like your opinion? Really? Quote: Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable. Then that's great. Go do it in person. Log off right now and go play basketball. Quote: Uh huh. So I said something contrary to this where? Let me quote you again, as your memory seems to be leaking today: You said: "Do you get the concept that 'going out and getting drunk' is merely a euthamism for the point that if you're going to waste an inordinate amount of time with people you don't know you might as well do it in the flesh?" I don't know about you, but I spent time on SL with people that I did know. Not all players are involved with people that they don't know, and even if they are, then they often get to know the people that they're dealing with. Just like real life. Do you wish to retract your statement?
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14th April 2007, 12:32 PM	#25
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Quote: "It" "It" I never said "you" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/it Okay then... don't have a stroke. Quote: Second Life, in itself, has an issue of quality? Or any game that attempts to do what it has done? No. Stop being dense. There are quality issues with the game. They are noted in this thread. What else would I be referring to? Quote: "Proof of concept". I consider SL a prototype. Wow. I don't care. Quote: And am I the only one that doesn't like crap like your opinion? Really? Oh you funny. You real funny. Quote: Then that's great. Go do it in person. Log off right now and go play basketball. It's dark outside, there's no court nearby and I don't have a ball. I'll pass and organise my time as I see fit thanks. Quote: Do you wish to retract your statement? No, since it makes little difference. I don't quite know why you think it is particularly significant.
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14th April 2007, 01:53 PM	#26
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Okay then... don't have a stroke. Don't worry about that. I was just ensuring that you would understand. Quote: No. Stop being dense. There are quality issues with the game. They are noted in this thread. What else would I be referring to? So by "this crap" at the beginning of the thread, I assume you only meant "Second Life"? I ask because I want to know exactly what you mean when you said "crap", so I know where you stand. If Second Life did not have quality issues, you would find it less crap, or more crap? Quote: Wow. I don't care. Good for you. Quote: Oh you funny. You real funny. Thanks. Quote: It's dark outside, there's no court nearby and I don't have a ball. Then watch television. It's supposed to be better. Either that, or read a book. Or go to bed. Quote: I'll pass and organise my time as I see fit thanks. That's nice. But you're just being a hypocrite, then. Quote: No, since it makes little difference. I don't quite know why you think it is particularly significant. Neither do I know why you think that my statement (that you wanted to be retracted) was significant either. Obviously truth has no value in this thread, so why bother?
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14th April 2007, 02:15 PM	#27
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	This is kinda surreal. Two (presumably) real people, bickering to no purpose on an internet forum about the value ( or lack thereof) of another internet application. Are we doing real life now, or the other thing? Come on guys. Chill. I reckon people who read Gibson and Stephenson really want to see something like the Cyberspace they describe becoming "reality"- do I mean "reality"? I dunno any more. We need new vocabulary. If "Secondlife"is pretty wet, isn't that what we might reasonably expect at this stage? Software always stretches the limits of available hardware - and it's usually games software that pushes hardest. The consensus view seems to be that this is a worthwhile experiment, but it's early days yet, so if you're not a specific devotee it's best avoided for the present. Yes?
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14th April 2007, 02:18 PM	#28
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf So by "this crap" at the beginning of the thread, I assume you only meant "Second Life"? I ask because I want to know exactly what you mean when you said "crap", so I know where you stand. I find the premise nauseating. Quote: If Second Life did not have quality issues, you would find it less crap, or more crap? Less by definition. Quote: Then watch television. It's supposed to be better. Either that, or read a book. Or go to bed. You say that as if these are all mutually incompatible activities. Quote: That's nice. But you're just being a hypocrite, then. Um, how? I don't believe I have demanded anyone else change what they do have I? Quote: Neither do I know why you think that my statement (that you wanted to be retracted) was significant either. Obviously truth has no value in this thread, so why bother? Yeah... okay.
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14th April 2007, 02:18 PM	#29
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam The consensus view seems to be that this is a worthwhile experiment, but it's early days yet, so if you're not a specific devotee it's best avoided for the present. Yes? "Wow. I don't care."
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14th April 2007, 02:21 PM	#30
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg I find the premise nauseating. That's nice. I could say the same of some posters here. Quote: You say that as if these are all mutually incompatible activities. You're spending time (an inordinate amount of time of it) talking to people on an internet forum. Yet you attack the concept of people spending time online in Second Life. Hypocrite. Quote: Um, how? I don't believe I have demanded anyone else change what they do have I? You say that real life is innately better than being online. Yet you spend an inordinate amount of time online. Hypocrite. Quote: Yeah... okay.
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14th April 2007, 02:23 PM	#31
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Lonewulf You're spending time (an inordinate amount of time of it) talking to people on an internet forum. Yet you attack the concept of people spending time online in Second Life. Hypocrite. Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say. Quote: You say that real life is innately better than being online. Yet you spend an inordinate amount of time online. Hypocrite. Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say.
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14th April 2007, 02:26 PM	#32
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by cyborg Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say. Yeah, if you misrepresent what I say. Quote: Apparently, you need to re-read what I said since I said nothing of the sort, I merely said doing it in person would be preferable. Explain this sentence. Doing what in person? ETA: You know what? Forget it. You don't care about what Second Life could become? Fine. You find the premise nauseating? Fine. You obviously don't have anything to add. So please, you don't care and you find it nauseating; go away. It's obvious you will provide nothing beneficial to this thread at all.
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14th April 2007, 02:27 PM	#33
Z D.D.D. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In a den in my lair, on the edge of your mind. Posts: 9,166	Could you take the bickering to PMs maybe? I tried Second Life for two days, but it became rapidly apparent that more than ten minutes playing caused my router to disconnect for some reason. So Second Life gets the death penalty.
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15th April 2007, 03:48 PM	#34
rserocki Scholar Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 52	Wow, I didn't expect so many extra messages since I last checked this. I just returned to mention that I wanted to leave a message for someone so I checked to see if installing the latest Second Life client would help with all the earlier crashes, and it did -- I didn't crash once. Although, I found by this time that I'd lost interest, so I didn't stick around. I would like to say there are some interesting places to visit there, such as this space museum (thumbnail gallery -- snapshots I took months ago) http://pics.livejournal.com/rserocki/gallery/00038sx3 Although I'm not really interested in it anymore, I appreciate all the work people did for stuff like that.

15th April 2007, 04:09 PM	#35
Lonewulf Humanistic Cyborg Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,380	Originally Posted by Z Could you take the bickering to PMs maybe? Nah, it's petered out. If Cyborg wants to keep it up (and I doubt he does), we'll take it to PM. My apologies for letting it rage on. Originally Posted by rserocky I would like to say there are some interesting places to visit there, such as this space museum (thumbnail gallery -- snapshots I took months ago) http://pics.livejournal.com/rserocki/gallery/00038sx3 Although I'm not really interested in it anymore, I appreciate all the work people did for stuff like that. That's one of the things I really liked about SL. It was used as a platform for instructing students, for therapy, and for educational museum stuff like this. People from all over the world, all over the nation, could come together and teach, socialize, interact, and create. That's why I just don't get why someone can call that premise "revolting", even if SL itself tended to not work well..
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