Heads up - Derren Brown on TV tonight

Mr Clingford · 13th April 2007, 04:01 AM

Channel 4 tonight, 22:00 - 22:30 'Derren Brown: Trick or Treat'

Radio Times says,
Psychological illusionist Derren Brown involves members of the public and celebrity guests in a fiendish version of the Halloween game. This week, having pulled a trick card, an unsuspecting man is put to sleep in a photo booth in London, only to awake in Marrakech. He also plays a game of fate with the stars on the League of Gentlemen involving chocolate mini-rolls.

I don't know if this is a repeat or not but I haven't seen it.

deBergerac · 13th April 2007, 04:22 AM

I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world.

But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose.

brettDbass · 13th April 2007, 05:58 AM

Not a repeat, oh no.

You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too.

deBergerac · 13th April 2007, 06:23 AM

Yeah, you are right.
Still won’t be able to see it.

Mr Clingford · 13th April 2007, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by brettDbass

Not a repeat, oh no.

You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too.

Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then

brettDbass · 13th April 2007, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mr Clingford

Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then

Trick or treee-eeat!

Azrael 5 · 13th April 2007, 01:22 PM

UK tabloid followed Derren and the crew secretly in an attempt to expose the show as a sham/set up,and they had to admit it wasn't to Derren!!

He has gone so far away from magic now on these shows that he leads himself open to these claims.

andyandy · 13th April 2007, 04:51 PM

the new show wasn't bad.....

it was a fun stunt on the student, i presume he was drugged or some such? Not so much magical, but a good extension of the university prank of putting someone to bed blind drunk then carrying them and then their bed out to the halls courtyard for them to awake to much disorientation several hours later

QueigBladecaster · 14th April 2007, 06:05 AM

I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat?

I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night

Jekyll · 14th April 2007, 06:11 AM

That's how it looked to me too.

NeilC · 16th April 2007, 03:35 PM

I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls.

4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one.

4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards.

They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one!

I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector.

I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam?

JamPal · 17th April 2007, 03:30 AM

Hi, Newb here.

Damn I missed this.

I take you have all read his book. It was a well recieved Christmas present for me this year.

Azrael 5 · 17th April 2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Splossy

I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls.

4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one.

4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards.

They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one!

I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector.

I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam?

There you have it.

Q-Source · 25th April 2007, 06:40 PM

I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts.
I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU

3point14 · 26th April 2007, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by QueigBladecaster

I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat?

I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night

As I was out , I taped it and then watched it, rewound it, turned the television upside down* and watched it again I can confirm that yes they are, and I'm pretty sure that nobody's going to be getting a treat.

Loved the trick with the blank pieces of paper that he passes off as curency, particularly as he shows the one that doesn't work. And a $4500 ring? And the guy counted the pieces of paper right there. Very impressive, I'd never pay for lunch again.

*May not be true.

andyandy · 26th April 2007, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Q-Source

I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts.
I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU

i agree....that was a pretty ill-thought out stunt....it's not surprising he was freaking out....

3point14 · 30th April 2007, 06:56 AM

Wish he'd teach me to play poker.

Whatever you think of the man, that particular trick was seriously impressive.

NeilC · 2nd May 2007, 04:45 AM

The poker thing was a good effect. However having seen Derren give false explanations for a huge range of effects I find it very, very, very hard to believe this was remotely as it appeared.

For starters, on one of his stage shows he does a trick where say 5 balls are put in a bag - 4 black one white. 5 people take a ball and hide it behind their back. He uses his "lie detecting ability" to find out who has the white ball....except he doesn't of course. It's a reworking of the old Phil Goldstein effect with a far simpler and more disappointing method. Now, if HE cannot tell if people are lying confidently enough to do it on his own show then can we believe he can teach some old granny in a week? I don't think so.

If you think about it, the world's security agencies and police forces and psychiatrists etc etc have been trying to work out reliable methods of lie detection for years and the best they can come up with is the polygraph (NOT reliable) or drugs. Sure they have some trained people who have a good shot at it but it's not reliable. We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.

So I view the whole show as a series of magic effects. In that case, I assume the entire thing was a set up. She didn't know it, the poker pros didn't know it but maybe the dealer did....? It only lasted 45 mins which isn't many hands to fix.

3point14 · 2nd May 2007, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Splossy

We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.

When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter'

Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck.

I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate.

I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up.

That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that.

JonWhite · 2nd May 2007, 09:49 AM

Only my take and I obviously don't actually know, but gotta go with Splossy on this one.

The "treat" (and trick) was simply convincing Granny (and us) that she could really beat poker pro's with DB's "mind" techniques, not in her actually winning. There are far easier ways this could be achieved than those techniques claimed and "shown".

Just curious as I'm no expert - and hard to say without seeing the game flow - but would a poker pro really go all in with only a 10 & 7 at that point?

I also note no disclaimer about stooges this series. Hmmm.

Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series?

NeilC · 2nd May 2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by 3point14

When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter'

Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck.

I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate.

I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up.

That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that.

When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen.

I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this.

I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise.

I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********.

andyandy · 2nd May 2007, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by JonWhite

Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series?

LOL

3point14 · 3rd May 2007, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Splossy

When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen.

Ah, sorry, I thought you meant in the confines of the game. I guess when it has no emotional involvement (like when they were sorting cards based on reaction) there's going to be a lot less to go on.

Originally Posted by Splossy

I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this.

I would guess that good poker players keep a firm eye on the deck? And don't they shuffle the deck by swirling them around on the table? Wouldn't that be difficult to fix? Not impossible I suppose.

Originally Posted by Splossy

I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise.

I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********.

I find the man fascinating. However he's doing it is amazing. Unless there are stooges involved, then I may as well go watch a play. If it's done any other way then it is, as you say brilliant, entertaining, etc. etc.

I just really, really, really want it to be done the way he says it is. I'm so gullible when it comes to magic and legerdemain

andyandy · 3rd May 2007, 05:09 AM

i just watched the poker episode....using channel 4s On demand service - (which is rather groovey)

my take....

firstly, they may have been people playing poker for a living - and thus "pros" of at least some standard, they were very much of the lower end of the spectrum...so there is certainly that qualifier....and in a short-handed game of no-limit with a limited number of hands, luck can play a very large part

nevertheless, there are certainly "tells" which can help you read your opposition - and if you can keep your own tells in check whilst picking up on your opponents', that does give you an edge....and i'm sure derren would be a decent tutor in this

Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it.....

3point14 · 3rd May 2007, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by andyandy

Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it.....

But I WANT firm conclusions!!! I wanna know how it's done!! (cue extra-pramular plaything projection on my part.)

Beerina · 29th August 2007, 08:42 PM

There's a new show on tonight. In it, he hypnotizes some guy outside in a cold desert area, and the guy lays over (it's about 4 PM). About 4 hours later, he wakes the guy up and the guy is all shocked it's suddenly night.

Um, no. Don't have to guess at some hypnotic ability, nor drug use. Just a goofball confederate.

Garrette · 30th August 2007, 06:35 AM

That's already on youtube, but I'm too much a lazy bum to find the link right now.

Azrael 5 · 30th August 2007, 02:05 PM

For the lazy bums.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EvyHH3C3Gds

Baker · 1st September 2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by deBergerac

I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world.

But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose.

You can view Derren Brown's show in full each week on is on the Sci Fi channel web site.
If you miss it or don't have cable

http://www.scifi.com/derrenbrown/video/index.php

Unalienable · 6th October 2007, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Splossy

We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low.

I'm sure most conjurers here know it, but that "high or low" card stunt was a old magician's standard called "Out of this World". I mean, it wasn't like the trick, it was the trick, down to the last detail. Usually it's done with the spectator picking red or black cards, Derren turned it into high and low cards since that has more relevance for poker.

So could the lady really detect when the man was lying about having a high or low card? No, not at all. But maybe it gave her enough confidence to win.

13th April 2007, 04:01 AM	#1
Mr Clingford Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Posts: 1,354	Heads up - Derren Brown on TV tonight Channel 4 tonight, 22:00 - 22:30 'Derren Brown: Trick or Treat' Radio Times says, Psychological illusionist Derren Brown involves members of the public and celebrity guests in a fiendish version of the Halloween game. This week, having pulled a trick card, an unsuspecting man is put to sleep in a photo booth in London, only to awake in Marrakech. He also plays a game of fate with the stars on the League of Gentlemen involving chocolate mini-rolls. I don't know if this is a repeat or not but I haven't seen it.
	__________________ God is my copilot. But we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him.

13th April 2007, 05:58 AM	#3
brettDbass Kurious Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Birmingham School Of Business School (Leicester branch) Posts: 1,320	Not a repeat, oh no. You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too.
	__________________ ist's single Pep Talk available to downlaod on Amazon US, Amazon UK & iTunes NOW! Why not check out my Legendary Guitar Sounds Series?

13th April 2007, 06:35 AM	#5
Mr Clingford Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Posts: 1,354	Originally Posted by brettDbass Not a repeat, oh no. You probably remember the Marrakech stunt being covered widely by the media and discussed here at length too. Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then
	__________________ God is my copilot. But we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat him.

13th April 2007, 08:42 AM	#6
brettDbass Kurious Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Birmingham School Of Business School (Leicester branch) Posts: 1,320	Originally Posted by Mr Clingford Hmm, I think I must have been asleep for a few months then Trick or treee-eeat!
	__________________ ist's single Pep Talk available to downlaod on Amazon US, Amazon UK & iTunes NOW! Why not check out my Legendary Guitar Sounds Series?

13th April 2007, 01:22 PM	#7
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	UK tabloid followed Derren and the crew secretly in an attempt to expose the show as a sham/set up,and they had to admit it wasn't to Derren!! He has gone so far away from magic now on these shows that he leads himself open to these claims.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

13th April 2007, 04:22 AM	#2
deBergerac New Doc on the Block Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Uppsala (Sweden) Posts: 445	I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world. But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose.

13th April 2007, 06:23 AM	#4
deBergerac New Doc on the Block Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Uppsala (Sweden) Posts: 445	Yeah, you are right. Still won’t be able to see it.

13th April 2007, 04:51 PM	#8
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 5,952	the new show wasn't bad..... it was a fun stunt on the student, i presume he was drugged or some such? Not so much magical, but a good extension of the university prank of putting someone to bed blind drunk then carrying them and then their bed out to the halls courtyard for them to awake to much disorientation several hours later
	__________________ If you suffer from long term RSI, backpain or other chronic pain conditions, check out this website: http://www.rsi-backpain.co.uk/ Feel free to PM me about it.....

14th April 2007, 06:05 AM	#9
QueigBladecaster New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 23	I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat? I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night
QueigBladecaster New Blood Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 23

14th April 2007, 06:11 AM	#10
Jekyll Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: The other other place Posts: 1,589	That's how it looked to me too.
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16th April 2007, 03:35 PM	#11
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls. 4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one. 4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards. They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one! I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector. I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam?

17th April 2007, 03:30 AM	#12
JamPal Student Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: West Sussex, England Posts: 36	Hi, Newb here. Damn I missed this. I take you have all read his book. It was a well recieved Christmas present for me this year.

17th April 2007, 09:02 AM	#13
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	Originally Posted by Splossy I'm stumpted by the league of gentlemen trick with the mini rolls. 4 of them enter the room and each take 1 of 5 chocoloate mini-roll cakes. The last person pockets the spare one. 4 cards spread on the table. They mix them up and take one each. Each on apparantly contains a message. The first person's message is, apparantly, "you will select blue". He;'s asked to look under the cusion of the chair - it's a large blue card. The others look and their cards also match their prediction cards. They then unwrap and bite into their cakes. The spare on is unwrapped and contains a razor blade - obviously the only one! I was thinking multiple outs for the card/chair but they are right and all in the same place - under the cushion of the chair of the selector. I can explain all the effects in his live show pretty easily but not this one which makes me think the medium of TV plays a large part. It's justy too clean. Amazing or total scam? There you have it.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

25th April 2007, 06:40 PM	#14
Q-Source Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,268	I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts. I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU
Q-Source Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,268	Last edited by Q-Source; 25th April 2007 at 06:42 PM.

26th April 2007, 06:53 AM	#15
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 1,039	Originally Posted by QueigBladecaster I'm I right in thinking the cards he was using were an ambigram of trick and treat? I missed the oppertunity of standing on my head while watching last night As I was out , I taped it and then watched it, rewound it, turned the television upside down* and watched it again I can confirm that yes they are, and I'm pretty sure that nobody's going to be getting a treat. Loved the trick with the blank pieces of paper that he passes off as curency, particularly as he shows the one that doesn't work. And a $4500 ring? And the guy counted the pieces of paper right there. Very impressive, I'd never pay for lunch again. *May not be true.
	__________________ Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.' -George Bernard Shaw GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment

26th April 2007, 02:31 PM	#16
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 5,952	Originally Posted by Q-Source I was watching some DB´s videos on Youtube and came across this one which was disturbing to watch. In fact, this is something that Channel 4 will not broadcast -as the one who leaked the video asserts. I think DB has gone too far. It is not funny to kidnap people and put them in very fearful situations no matter how famous you are. The guy just phoned the police, but I would definitely press charges. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRIV3hPt4AU i agree....that was a pretty ill-thought out stunt....it's not surprising he was freaking out....
	__________________ If you suffer from long term RSI, backpain or other chronic pain conditions, check out this website: http://www.rsi-backpain.co.uk/ Feel free to PM me about it.....

30th April 2007, 06:56 AM	#17
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 1,039	Wish he'd teach me to play poker. Whatever you think of the man, that particular trick was seriously impressive.
	__________________ Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.' -George Bernard Shaw GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment

2nd May 2007, 04:45 AM	#18
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	The poker thing was a good effect. However having seen Derren give false explanations for a huge range of effects I find it very, very, very hard to believe this was remotely as it appeared. For starters, on one of his stage shows he does a trick where say 5 balls are put in a bag - 4 black one white. 5 people take a ball and hide it behind their back. He uses his "lie detecting ability" to find out who has the white ball....except he doesn't of course. It's a reworking of the old Phil Goldstein effect with a far simpler and more disappointing method. Now, if HE cannot tell if people are lying confidently enough to do it on his own show then can we believe he can teach some old granny in a week? I don't think so. If you think about it, the world's security agencies and police forces and psychiatrists etc etc have been trying to work out reliable methods of lie detection for years and the best they can come up with is the polygraph (NOT reliable) or drugs. Sure they have some trained people who have a good shot at it but it's not reliable. We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low. So I view the whole show as a series of magic effects. In that case, I assume the entire thing was a set up. She didn't know it, the poker pros didn't know it but maybe the dealer did....? It only lasted 45 mins which isn't many hands to fix.

2nd May 2007, 06:09 AM	#19
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 1,039	Originally Posted by Splossy We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low. When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter' Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck. I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate. I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up. That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that.
	__________________ Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.' -George Bernard Shaw GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment

2nd May 2007, 09:49 AM	#20
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	Only my take and I obviously don't actually know, but gotta go with Splossy on this one. The "treat" (and trick) was simply convincing Granny (and us) that she could really beat poker pro's with DB's "mind" techniques, not in her actually winning. There are far easier ways this could be achieved than those techniques claimed and "shown". Just curious as I'm no expert - and hard to say without seeing the game flow - but would a poker pro really go all in with only a 10 & 7 at that point? I also note no disclaimer about stooges this series. Hmmm. Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series?
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland

2nd May 2007, 02:00 PM	#21
NeilC Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,085	Originally Posted by 3point14 When playing poker, the value of a card is not particularly something I'd refer to as 'stuff that doesn't matter' Poker players themselves use techniques to try to evaluate opponents and read 'tells', and there are such things as 'good poker players', it's not only luck. I would think that it is a perfectly valid skill to read people within the confines of a game of poker. Whether or not this skill can be taught to an octaganarian in a few weeks, I wouldn't like to speculate. I would very much doubt that any of the players or the dealer were stooges. tabloid newspapers would pay a fair amount of money for an exclusive scoop on any Derrin Brown stooges that turned up. That said, I'm not a magician, (although I can fool my seven year old nephew with a disappearing coin trick, does that count?) so there may be 1001 ways of doing this without the given explaination being correct, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of reading tells as an explaination, as professional poker players make their living doing just that. When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen. I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this. I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise. I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********.

2nd May 2007, 04:42 PM	#22
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 5,952	Originally Posted by JonWhite Is it just me, or does he seem to be becoming an evil Jeremy Beadle in this series? LOL
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3rd May 2007, 02:48 AM	#23
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 1,039	Originally Posted by Splossy When I referred to the high/low thing I meant the lead-up effects - when she was practicing. She was supposedly able to tell a high card from a low one just from reading their voice and face. That is not stronly emotional lying. I cannot believe I show any visible difference on a little lie like that. The best poker players on the planet surely would have learned how to do this by now, even if just on a trial and error basis. But they very often wrong or unable to get a tell. I'd like to see DB get a tell on Chris Ferguson or Phil Ivey. They show zero emotion, no movement - nothing. Most poker interviews I've read have said that tells are important but often overrated. If DB enters a normal tourney that he didn't set up and wins then I believe him. But that ain't gonna happen. Ah, sorry, I thought you meant in the confines of the game. I guess when it has no emotional involvement (like when they were sorting cards based on reaction) there's going to be a lot less to go on. Originally Posted by Splossy I don't think the players were stooges. I recognised all of them as professionals except Holden who is an author. The dealer is another matter. How can we possibly rule that person out? Dual Reality concepts might also enter into this. I would guess that good poker players keep a firm eye on the deck? And don't they shuffle the deck by swirling them around on the table? Wouldn't that be difficult to fix? Not impossible I suppose. Originally Posted by Splossy I have books on poker tells and believe me, they are a useful guide that can help. But most good poker players have them so it's not big news, and the other skills are very important too. Betting patterns are often a bigger tell than hand or face movements and they take a real understanding of the game to utilise. I think like almost everything DB does it's brilliant, entertaining, misleading ********. I find the man fascinating. However he's doing it is amazing. Unless there are stooges involved, then I may as well go watch a play. If it's done any other way then it is, as you say brilliant, entertaining, etc. etc. I just really, really, really want it to be done the way he says it is. I'm so gullible when it comes to magic and legerdemain
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3rd May 2007, 05:09 AM	#24
andyandy anthropomorphic ape Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: up a tree Posts: 5,952	i just watched the poker episode....using channel 4s On demand service - (which is rather groovey) my take.... firstly, they may have been people playing poker for a living - and thus "pros" of at least some standard, they were very much of the lower end of the spectrum...so there is certainly that qualifier....and in a short-handed game of no-limit with a limited number of hands, luck can play a very large part nevertheless, there are certainly "tells" which can help you read your opposition - and if you can keep your own tells in check whilst picking up on your opponents', that does give you an edge....and i'm sure derren would be a decent tutor in this Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it.....
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3rd May 2007, 05:17 AM	#25
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London ish Posts: 1,039	Originally Posted by andyandy Overall it was pretty impressive - but i don't think you could draw any firm conclusions from it..... But I WANT firm conclusions!!! I wanna know how it's done!! (cue extra-pramular plaything projection on my part.)
	__________________ Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.' -George Bernard Shaw GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment

29th August 2007, 08:42 PM	#26
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 14,373	There's a new show on tonight. In it, he hypnotizes some guy outside in a cold desert area, and the guy lays over (it's about 4 PM). About 4 hours later, he wakes the guy up and the guy is all shocked it's suddenly night. Um, no. Don't have to guess at some hypnotic ability, nor drug use. Just a goofball confederate.
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30th August 2007, 06:35 AM	#27
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,964	That's already on youtube, but I'm too much a lazy bum to find the link right now.
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30th August 2007, 02:05 PM	#28
Azrael 5 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 4,219	For the lazy bums. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EvyHH3C3Gds
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown Photography here

1st September 2007, 07:46 PM	#29
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121	Originally Posted by deBergerac I think it is a repeat. But I still have not seen it. The frustrating thing with the Internet is that you get to know about all the things that you miss all over the world. But I am sure I can find the show somewhere on the Internet, that makes it even I suppose. You can view Derren Brown's show in full each week on is on the Sci Fi channel web site. If you miss it or don't have cable http://www.scifi.com/derrenbrown/video/index.php
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121

6th October 2007, 05:36 AM	#30
Unalienable Critical Thinker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 293	Originally Posted by Splossy We are good at lying, especially about stuff that doesn't matter like if a card is high or low. I'm sure most conjurers here know it, but that "high or low" card stunt was a old magician's standard called "Out of this World". I mean, it wasn't like the trick, it was the trick, down to the last detail. Usually it's done with the spectator picking red or black cards, Derren turned it into high and low cards since that has more relevance for poker. So could the lady really detect when the man was lying about having a high or low card? No, not at all. But maybe it gave her enough confidence to win.