Home Defense & No-Knock Warrants

[Mephisto]

Anyone remember the story of the elderly lady who was shot and killed by police after she wounded three police officers as they served a "no-knock" warrant? Well, three of those officers were indicted today for their part in the killing of the innocent 88 year old woman - two on felony murder charges.

Quote:

Atlanta police officers charged in killing of woman, 88

POSTED: 1:42 p.m. EDT, April 26, 2007

TLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Three Atlanta, Georgia, police officers were indicted Thursday -- two on felony murder charges -- in the shooting death of an elderly woman during a botched drug raid on Thanksgiving eve.

Fulton County Superior Court documents show Officer Gregg Junnier was indicted by a local grand jury on charges of three counts of felony murder, two counts of burglary and one count of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

Officer Jason Smith was charged with four counts of felony murder, two counts of false statements, two counts of burglary and one count of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, according to the indictments.

Junnier, who retired from the force after the shooting, and Smith are expected to enter into a plea bargain agreement when they appear in court Thursday afternoon, an attorney for one of the men said.

Officer Arthur Tesler has been charged with making false statements and false imprisonment, the documents show. His attorney has said Tesler, who had been on the force only eight months, will fight the charges.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/26/at...nts/index.html

Apparently, the tactic whereby police officers stream into a home one after another allowed her to wound three of them before they killed her. I wonder if their tactics will be reviewed and whether more substantial proof of imminent danger will be more carefully reviewed before "no-knock" warrants are issued.

(edited to add) I remember this statement when the story first broke;

Quote:

Neighbors and relatives said the raid had to have been a mistake. Johnston lived alone and was so afraid of crime in the neighborhood that she wouldn't let neighbors who delivered groceries for her come in, they said.

If I remember correctly, there was also a wheelchair ramp and handrail outside the home. Why couldn't these policemen have checked with the neighbors and other witnesses before charging into the home?

I hope they rot too!

[Cleon]

Two of them have pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter.

I hope they rot.

[Katana]

What a mess.

[Mephisto]

Their excuse for delivering the no-knock warrant with a heavily armed group is likely that they suspected multiple, armed suspects inside.

If this is what an 88 year old disabled woman with an old gun could do to them, what would have happened HAD there been multiple, young and heavily-armed drug pushers inside? They might have had the law on their side in that instance, but they'd all be dead for sure.

[Charlie Monoxide]

More victims of this inane war on drugs.

If cops (only a few) aren't getting corrupt being paid off by rich dealers and drug mafia's, they're covering their butts in botched raids for illegal drugs.

Charlie (don't get me started on confiscation) Monoxide

[Overman]

"When they kick down your front door....How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun?"

-Guns of Brixton, "The Clash"

[Katana]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Their excuse for delivering the no-knock warrant with a heavily armed group is likely that they suspected multiple, armed suspects inside.

If this is what an 88 year old disabled woman with an old gun could do to them, what would have happened HAD there been multiple, young and heavily-armed drug pushers inside? They might have had the law on their side in that instance, but they'd all be dead for sure.

I remember hearing about this and thought, "Wow. Was she sitting in her home with her gun in her lap?" From how it sounds, that just may well have been the case. Sad that she lived in such fear.

And you have a point, Mephisto.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Their excuse for delivering the no-knock warrant with a heavily armed group is likely that they suspected multiple, armed suspects inside.

Their excuse, and the source of their excuses, has changed repeatedly since the murder occurred.

[Phillybee]

Originally Posted by Katana

I remember hearing about this and thought, "Wow. Was she sitting in her home with her gun in her lap?" From how it sounds, that just may well have been the case. Sad that she lived in such fear.

And you have a point, Mephisto.

Given where she lived, she probably had her gun right next to her at all times.

On another note, how can one person be charged with four counts of felony murder if they killed one person?

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by Phillybee

On another note, how can one person be charged with four counts of felony murder if they killed one person?

Four different felonies?

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Ha, I totally remember this! I never thought that things would go this far... But it is so awesome that they did !

Yay for civil rights !

But poor old lady ...

[Katana]

Originally Posted by Phillybee

Given where she lived, she probably had her gun right next to her at all times.

On another note, how can one person be charged with four counts of felony murder if they killed one person?

I didn't notice that (that does seem odd), but I was wondering about the burglary charges - or is that connected to the phoney basis for the search warrant (meaning that it became a breaking & entering thing)?

[Beerina]

Originally Posted by drkitten

Four different felonies?

Perhaps there are four different ways it could be considered a murder, even if only one may legally be the conviction later. Like lying, which lead to the death, or charging in and shooting, which lead to the death, etc.

[Senor_Pointy]

Quote:

"It's very egregious. I agree what they did was wrong, it was not appropriate. An innocent person was killed as a result of it. That's not indicative of our department. What would make police officers make up a story, lie about a senior citizen, plant drugs on a senior citizen? That's the thing I have been waiting on for the last five months. There's no rhyme and reason why these officers did what they did."

10 years isn't long enough.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Overman

"When they kick down your front door....How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun?"

-Guns of Brixton, "The Clash"

That would be pistols - and of calibers that say "hi" to the nice vest as they pass right through it (.44 up does that to police level vests).. Lest anyone misinterpret this - I have no desire to shoot police or otherwise do them harm- I appreciate the work they do and they mostly do it well. But, by the same token they have messed up in the past and I do not plan to be the victim of a mess-up*. Anyone stupid enough not to be excessively certain and completely clear that the target is a functional target and the situation is completely certain is an idiot and should never have been on a decent police force.




*plus I have this weird rule that I will try really hard to take my murderer(s) with me if that is how I go.

[strathmeyer]

Do we still not know why they were there in the first place?

[Bikewer]

The legal underpinnings of obtaining and executing search warrants tends to be complex and ever-changing. Also department policies are not consistent across the country.
In order to obtain a search warrant, the police must present sufficient evidence to a judge (normally a magistrate-level judge) as to the presence of criminal activity, the presence of the instrumentalities of a crime, or of evidence pertaining to a crime already committed.
This evidence must be sufficient to establish probable cause. It might consist of direct observation, stakeout, wiretap, informant information, etc.
The criminal history (if any) of the suspected residents or others present may be taken into account.

If the search warrant is issued, the decision as to make a "no-knock" entry is normally based on these criteria, or possibly due to the exigences of the tactical situation the officers encounter. For instance, on arrival officers hear evidence of a crime in progress inside the building, and feel they have cause to believe that someone is being killed.... Something like that.
There may be past history of the individuals involved being heavily armed, or of trying to destroy evidence.
Drug dealers and distributors have been known to set up elaborate devices to destroy evidence in case of a raid.

These are general principals only, and they are constantly being revised by court decision and subsequently by departmental policy.

[strathmeyer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070426/...kBlq.Jk_5H2ocA

Quote:

Fulton County prosecutor Peter Johnson said that the officers involved in Johnston's death fired 39 shots, striking her five or six times, including a fatal blow to the chest.

He said Johnston fired only once through her door and didn't hit any of the officers. That means the officers who were wounded likely were hit by their own colleagues, he said.

[Megalodon]

Yup, had there been an armed gang in the house, they would all be dead.

[Cleon]

Another update.

Quote:

What started with a few bags of marijuana being planted near a suspected street dealer quickly spiraled out of control. Narcotics officers lied to a judge, illegally broke into 92-year-old Kathryn Johnston's house, fired 39 shots at her — and then one handcuffed her as she lay bleeding before he planted drugs in her basement.

The "armed gang" were the ones who broke into this woman's house, murdered her, and tried to frame her for a crime she didn't commit.

The fact that these men--and I use the term very, very loosely--had badges makes the crime even more deplorable.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by strathmeyer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070426/...kBlq.Jk_5H2ocA

What has become of marksmanship training? To fire at an 88 year old woman in a wheelchair 39 times hitting her only five or six times, and THEN to handcuff her as she lay bleeding.

I realize handcuffing a suspect is sometimes policy, but they concievably disarmed her after shooting her so considering she was in a wheelchair it was unlikely that she was going to run into another room for a shotgun, or kick them in the throat.

My feelings are that this should have been handled as a home invasion crime instead of bad cops making a big mistake - anyone else killing an old lady in this manner would have gotten the death penalty.

[Charlie Monoxide]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

What has become of marksmanship training? To fire at an 88 year old woman in a wheelchair 39 times hitting her only five or six times, and THEN to handcuff her as she lay bleeding.

I realize handcuffing a suspect is sometimes policy, but they concievably disarmed her after shooting her so considering she was in a wheelchair it was unlikely that she was going to run into another room for a shotgun, or kick them in the throat.

My feelings are that this should have been handled as a home invasion crime instead of bad cops making a big mistake - anyone else killing an old lady in this manner would have gotten the death penalty.

There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded elderly woman in a wheelchair ....

Charlie (did they strap her to their fender afterwards?) Monoxide

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by Charlie Monoxide

There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded elderly woman in a wheelchair ....

Charlie (did they strap her to their fender afterwards?) Monoxide

Yes, as we all know, if you don't thin out the herd of little old ladies in wheelchairs they stand a chance of starving in the winter.

My SON can shoot better than these cops, and yes, I understand that it's different when someone is shooting back at you, but a little old lady in a wheelchair? Six hits out of 39 total! Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, at the distance of the most common entryways, in most homes, I think you stand a good chance of hitting a target that many times with your eyes closed.

[azazal]

Originally Posted by Mephisto

Yes, as we all know, if you don't thin out the herd of little old ladies in wheelchairs they stand a chance of starving in the winter.

My SON can shoot better than these cops, and yes, I understand that it's different when someone is shooting back at you, but a little old lady in a wheelchair? Six hits out of 39 total! Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, at the distance of the most common entryways, in most homes, I think you stand a good chance of hitting a target that many times with your eyes closed.

3 officers, each doing a spry and pray, emptying their guns as fast as possible, I can see why they hit so few times while firing 39 times. No excuse for their actions, and as trained law enforcement, they shouldn't have been have been doing a spay and pray to begin with. Of course, given their actions, I wonder about their training.

[Kerberos]

Originally Posted by drkitten

Four different felonies?

Extremely severe case of Dissociative identity disorder?

[JoeTheJuggler]

Originally Posted by Beerina

Perhaps there are four different ways it could be considered a murder, even if only one may legally be the conviction later. Like lying, which lead to the death, or charging in and shooting, which lead to the death, etc.

I think that's about right. Under the Felony Murder Rule, if a killing takes place during the commission (or attempted commisison) of a felony, then the felony can be increased to a charge of murder.

Don't know if I worded that exactly right, but it's the basic idea.

I suspect the underlying felonies were things like unlawful use of deadly force--raised to felony murder.

[kalen]

The original Forum thread is here.

It's a fun little read now that all the facts are out.

[kalen]

I have to hand it to the police informant who wouldn't go along with the bad cops' story. His refusal to cover-up this crime is admirable. Unfortunately, he's really up the creek now:

1) His picture is in the press - so the drug pushers know who he is.

2) Not every cop in Atlanta thought he did the "right thing".

3) He's now out of work. He's planning to sue the city for loss of income.

Seeing how criminal acts of city employees put him out of a job, I don't see why he shouldn't be compensated.

[Mephisto]

Originally Posted by kalen

I have to hand it to the police informant who wouldn't go along with the bad cops' story. His refusal to cover-up this crime is admirable. Unfortunately, he's really up the creek now:

1) His picture is in the press - so the drug pushers know who he is.

2) Not every cop in Atlanta thought he did the "right thing".

3) He's now out of work. He's planning to sue the city for loss of income.

Seeing how criminal acts of city employees put him out of a job, I don't see why he shouldn't be compensated.

I'm sure the ex-informant is a walking dead man. After watching CNN's Anderson Cooper's segment on "Snitching," I'm sure this guy doesn't have long to live. I hope he gets his money out of the city of Atlanta and can move to another city where he can cooperate with (honorable) police.

It was pretty shameless of the police officers who were undoubtedly sure that he wouldn't come forward to contest their accusations. To think that a paid informant, a stool pigeon, a snitch had more honor than those paid "to protect and serve," really doesn't leave much hope for good PR with the Atlanta PD.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

I think that's about right. Under the Felony Murder Rule, if a killing takes place during the commission (or attempted commisison) of a felony, then the felony can be increased to a charge of murder.

Can anyone explain the difference between manslaughter and felony murder? Isn't manslaughter a felony in which someone dies? And why is it that felony murder carries a higher penalty than an intentional killing?

[gnomon]

The police officers lied from the beginning.

They planted drugs on a suspect in the neighborhood. The suspect gave them the address of Kathryn Johnston. The police then lied to obtain a warrant to raid the premises, killed the occupant in a bogus claim of self-defense, handcuffed her on the floor while she bled to death, planted the marijuana to provide a cover story, asked a known informant to lie for them...and failed to succeed. Thanks to the informant for not going along with the plan and investigators for not finding the officer's story satisfactory.

The officer who did not plead guilty to lesser charges, the most notable being failure in his duty as a police officer and false imprisonment, should be charged with the federal crime of conspiracy to deprive an individual of their civil rights. The human scum refused to cross that thin blue line. That alone should at least be punishable by a very long prison sentence. Remember this. Nobody has been sentenced. The officers who plead guilty are working with investigators and could very likely end up with very short sentences.

I'm borderline on possible public executions in this case.

Also remember this, that this is not an isolated case. There is a man temporarily off death row (he was charged with capital murder) for killing a police officer during an early morning no-knock raid. A judge may very well put him back on death row (he is currently serving life in prison). In that case the man was not listed on the warrant for the search and the people who were and found to be in possession of drugs are no where to be found. The man in question is Cory Maye. And yes, he is black.

If the Atlanta case does not lead to a vast overhaul in the manner of narcotics enforcement then the death of Kathryn Johnston will be that much harder. LAE's around the country will continue to knock-and-announce and no-knock warrants to save the country from the bogeyman of drug use. An apathetic public will continue to debate the merits of Rosie O'Donnell and Don Imus.

In the overall scheme of American society, it's another unknown black person killed by law enforcement officers but since it all relates to this spectre of the drug war it's all somehow...okay.

Yes, this issue irritates me. The true words I wish to speak would be improper.

P.S. This is not the first fatal police shooting of a citizen linked directly to the drug war in the city of Atlanta. There was the shooting death of Kenneth Walker because a decorated officers finger twitched and the death of Lynette Jackson after police found her boyfriends cocaine when called out to the apartment on a burglary investigation. The latter resulted in the police going back with a no-knock warrant and shooting Jackson in bed after they broke through the bedroom door and found her with a gun in her hand. In the early morning. Probably thinking she was being burglarized again.

I'm just about sick of it all.

[Kerberos]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Can anyone explain the difference between manslaughter and felony murder? Isn't manslaughter a felony in which someone dies? And why is it that felony murder carries a higher penalty than an intentional killing?

Because being tough on crime plays well with the voters.

[Suddenly]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

Can anyone explain the difference between manslaughter and felony murder? Isn't manslaughter a felony in which someone dies? And why is it that felony murder carries a higher penalty than an intentional killing?

Criminal law differs somewhat from state to state. In general:

Voluntary Manslaughter is an intentional killing with provication. A simple way to put it is a killing "in the heat of the moment."

Felony murder is a death in the commission of a particular class of felony. Old school felonies like burglary, larceny, rape, and robbery. Some modern codes toss in felony drug offenses. Which in some cases mean that if you were to give a prescription drug to someone without a prescription, and that person were to die... sorry to make you cry.

The felony murder rule developed in the common law and comes from the concept of "transferred intent." This means that the intent to commit a felony transferrs to the death, and creates an "intentional killing." This is mildly daft, but at the time this concept developed every felony was punishable by death, so it didn't make that big of a difference.

These days, in some states a felony murder is a second degree murder, but as far as I know in most it is a first degree murder. Some codes retire the concept as such and meld it with what is called "depraved indifference." When there is a death caused by a person acting "with depraved indifference to human life," that person is guilty of (usually second degree) murder.

This doctrine really does not fit in with modern ideas of due process. I think Michigan even went so far as to declare it unconstitutional. It stays around mainly as said above, a tough on crime deal. Some claim it is a deterrent to dangerous crime, but that assumes that most people know that the doctrine exists. In the end, felons that kill people whether an accident or not aren't usually the most popular people in town, so "fairness" isn't the first thing on most people's minds.