ABC TV to sponsor God debate featuring Kirk "Bananas are Proof of God" Cameron - Page 2

Fronzel · 28th April 2007, 07:03 PM

I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time.

Daylight · 28th April 2007, 09:56 PM

After reading Brian’s site, shouldn’t the Rational Response Squad for their opening remarks simply say “We feel that to prove the existence of god requires a significant amount of time, we’d like to yield our initial time to Mr Comfort and Mr Cameron to present their evidence. After they have presented their evidence, we’ll debate the evidence they present. We turn the floor over to them” And then walk off the stage.

After the “evidence” has been presented, return to the stage and stick to only debating the presented evidence and how it does not prove god exists. When evolution is brought up always say “We’ll be happy to return and debate “Creationism vs Evolution” on another show but it has nothing to do with “proving God's existence, absolutely, scientifically, without mentioning the Bible or faith”.

thaiboxerken · 28th April 2007, 11:30 PM

Fat chance of that happening, Daylight. Those christians are good at bait and switching a "god" debate into a "defend evolution" debate.

UnrepentantSinner · 29th April 2007, 03:57 AM

Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe).

Has there been any confirmation of this from ABC news, or is the buzz on the 'Net only from Raptureready and Christiannews or whatever was cited earlier?

Ladewig · 29th April 2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe).

Has there been any confirmation of this from ABC news, or is the buzz on the 'Net only from Raptureready and Christiannews or whatever was cited earlier?

I couldn't find anything when I posted the OP. Today, I see that the Rational Response message board has this statement:

Quote:

It'll be Kelly and I, May 5th in NYC talking with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron on ABC's website. Martin Bashir will moderate and you'll be able see the whole thing live (90 minutes) on ABC's website (probably the Nightline section). Then there will be a recap on a Nightline segment later.

neon · 29th April 2007, 07:03 AM

This is going to be funny.

UnrepentantSinner · 29th April 2007, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Ladewig

I couldn't find anything when I posted the OP. Today, I see that the Rational Response message board has this statement:

I'm subscribed to this thread and I don't do anything that requires broadband at work and I'm stuck on dial-up at home, can you either give me a 24 hour heads up for the Nightline edition or provide a general transcript for the webcast for those of us who won't be able to check it out?

I would love to see Cameron eat some Crowe.

fuelair · 29th April 2007, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

I'm afraid it's over before it can even begin. Several posters are praying for the god side and we all know the power of prayer. Bummer.

Why yes, yes we do - and that would be NONE!!!

fuelair · 30th April 2007, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by nails3jesus0

Ive watched their show, 'way of the master' before (its where the banana clip came from). They cant even present a passable argument in a completely controlled enviroment where they can edit the comments of others (and they certainly do). They will fail HARD, and it will be hilarious.

I like banana clips too - they work really well in the AK-47 and they don't get in the way like longer straight magazines do.

joobz · 30th April 2007, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Fronzel

I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time.

at that age, depending on his circumstances, it probably didn't need a deep intellectual conversion.

typically, people need some sense of belonging. especially at that age. If he wasn't getting it from other sources (It doesn't seem common for a teen in holliwood to get a nurturing environment), he would have turned to something. It just happened to be christianity.

I think that is part of why scientology is so successful. They provide spiritual "answers" without the burden of guilt and responsibility that christian faiths typically have.

thaiboxerken · 30th April 2007, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner

Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe).

Most of them seem to think abiogenesis and the big bang theory are part of evolutionary theory.

Cleon · 30th April 2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Most of them seem to think abiogenesis and the big bang theory are part of evolutionary theory.

Well, to them, "evolution" means "any bit of science I don't like."

Geology is "evolution" because it shows the world to be 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000.

Astronomy is "evolution" because it shows a universe that is far older and larger than the writers of the Bible could comprehend (of course, most people, including astronomers, still can't comprehend just how huge it really is).

And so on, and so forth.

Achán hiNidráne · 30th April 2007, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fronzel

I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time.

I think he'd have to have been pretty young given that he made that gosh-awful, thinly veiled, anti-abortion flick "Listen To Me" just after his stint on "Growing Pains." Of course, this was a vastly superior cinematic achievement to ANY of the "Left Behind" movies.

As for his claims that he was once a atheist, you have to remember that many fundies believe that if you don't belong to their particular denomination (or even congregation) you aren't "really" a Christian; for all intents and purpose, you're an "atheist" if you don't belong their church. So who knows what he really believed or not? For all we know, he could have been a hard core Catholic until he found "true religion" in the Church Of Jesus Christ, Snake Handler, Accountant, and Gynecologist with Signs Coming.

thaiboxerken · 30th April 2007, 10:54 PM

Well, I think Kirk is telling the truth about once being an atheist, but only because we're all born atheist.

joobz · 1st May 2007, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Well, I think Kirk is telling the truth about once being an atheist, but only because we're all born atheist.

We are also born illiterate and ignorant, what does that prove?

Cleon · 1st May 2007, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by joobz

We are also born illiterate and ignorant, what does that prove?

That if Cameron said "I was once illiterate and ignorant," he'd be telling the truth.

Of course, the question then would be whether he ever got better...

The Grave · 2nd May 2007, 09:17 AM

If god created matter, in it's quantum state la, la, la...then IT created the process of thought itself, ergo IT created us and them to think the way we think and so there is no free will. I think that the best thing to do is offer up some DNA samples and test for a god gene.

I'll bet the pope doesn't have one!

Griff...

CurtC · 2nd May 2007, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by polaristutoring@tisc

I'll bet the pope doesn't have one!

The president's is very short.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard.
Madonna doesn't have one.
The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it.

What is it?

ShowerComic · 2nd May 2007, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

I always assumed Kirk was saying bananas must be intelligently designed because they were the perfect shape for him to pleasure himself with.

I think there is a similar youtube video about the cucumber for similar reasons. -- Even better than the Bananna -- Good Raw, Pickled, and
ahem -- there are children present

Tanstaafl · 2nd May 2007, 11:54 AM

Reminds me of that old top-ten list "Why Cucumbers are Better Than Men".

But I think that was outdone by "Why Beer is Better Than Women".

(My favorite was "Beer doesn't get jealous when you pick up another beer.")

ThatSoundAgain · 2nd May 2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

The president's is very short.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard.
Madonna doesn't have one.
The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it.

What is it?

Erm.. Banana?

No, wait - is that an African Schwarzenegger or a European Schwarzenegger?

joobz · 2nd May 2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

The president's is very short.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard.
Madonna doesn't have one.
The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it.

What is it?

last name

ChristineR · 2nd May 2007, 02:14 PM

Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables.

Tanstaafl · 2nd May 2007, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by ChristineR

Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables.

That's what stopped me from saying last name.

mijopaalmc · 2nd May 2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ChristineR

Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables.

Actually, it's Ritchie. Slightly less dirty-sounding than Ciccone.

Kopji · 2nd May 2007, 08:52 PM

I'm not sure that atheists have quite figured this out yet. The media has shown little interest in honest debate on this subject.

Consider that with all the humans that could coherently represent a theist pov, The Great Almighty - creator of the universe - is sending Kurt Cameron to represent him that we might believe.

There is a debate trying to get going about God and religion, but it is not well defined and so far the advantage goes to those who entertain the best, rather than those who inform or educate.

Kurt may or may not be a complete idiot, but he is an actor and entertainer with many years experience in front of a camera.

Kopji · 2nd May 2007, 09:09 PM

(I know it's 'Kirk', but with 1.7 million google hits on 'Kurt' Cameron I couldn't resist...)

CurtC · 3rd May 2007, 05:59 AM

I'm Curt Cameron. No relation.

thaiboxerken · 3rd May 2007, 07:49 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3130360&page=2

The abc article/promo for the upcoming show.

Here is something interestingly weird that Comfort says:

"We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't."

I can only hope that the Rational Response Squad debate this well, because I'd hate to find out that I don't exist.

Cleon · 3rd May 2007, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

"We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't."

What the hell....?

I suppose this could be just some twisted ad hom: "I think, therefore I am" is a logical proof. Since atheists don't think, they don't exist.

(Yes, I have heard people spout such rubbish.)

thaiboxerken · 3rd May 2007, 07:58 AM

Actually, I think it's the old "no atheists in foxholes" fallacy.

CurtC · 3rd May 2007, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

"We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't."

If you've ever watched any of the Way of the Master videos (such as the infamous banana/nightmare one), you'll see that Comfort defines "atheist" as "a person who has proof that God does not exist," and since disproof of God is logically impossible, therefore there are no atheists.

thaiboxerken · 3rd May 2007, 08:44 AM

Oh, so he has strawmen atheists. Gotcha.

Kopji · 3rd May 2007, 12:05 PM

Looks like the show was moved to May 9th at 2pm. No time zone listed though.

As always the 'comments' section is most revealing. I'd watch a show that walked through them one by one and had each side try and explain their advocates.

My favorites are by poster 'PhilosopyMan'. They are a surreal yet prophetic work of art from the misspelling of 'Philosophy' right down to the fervent hope that we atheists see the light before it is too late. He should be on TV.

Quote:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/comm...ory&id=3130360

You know what I don't really care what people believe or don't believe, people have the right to believe whatever they want and I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you people. Just keep summer or mid 2007 in mind. Because I had a dream that something is gonna happen and its not gonna be pretty, and its wierd too because I heard a man on tv in Peru had the same encounter 7 years ago. So I'm really tripping. And atheist your gonna wanna wish you believed in something. Will see if my dream comes true I hope it dosn't cause dang its scary.

Posted by:
PhilosopyMan

Cactus Wren · 3rd May 2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3130360&page=2

The abc article/promo for the upcoming show.

Check out the comments page. One user, posting under the handle "PhilosopyMan" [sic], can only resort to (overfamiliar) thinly veiled threats in lieu of argument: "So since we are a product of cosmic accident you shouldn't get mad then right if I were to kick your grandma in the face?" "Who is anyone to say that I can't kick an old lady in the face. What makes it wrong. If I don't believe in "rules" or "laws" then I have the right to kick an old lady in the face. RIGHT?" Stop trying to persuade me, because if you do persuade me I'm likely to come over and kick your grandmother in the face!

thaiboxerken · 3rd May 2007, 01:58 PM

It's pretty easy to claim that "something" awful is going to happen in summer-2007, after all Fantastic Four II: Rise of the Silver Surfer is scheduled to premier at that time.

The Grave · 7th May 2007, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3130360&page=2

The abc article/promo for the upcoming show.

Here is something interestingly weird that Comfort says:

"We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't."

I can only hope that the Rational Response Squad debate this well, because I'd hate to find out that I don't exist.

Faithers like to think that "Atheists don't exist"...meaning that ~~Deep down~~ we all believe in a god OR that we 'believe' there isn't one, which amounts to having a religion....

It goes:"You can not prove there's NOT a god so you BELIEVE there's no god, so you're religious."

THE REPLY:

Science says there is no EVIDENCE of a god {not that there is no god} so as a scientist, there is no reason to accept the idea of a god, as there is no evidence for god.

Further, if there were evidence of a god, it would be proof; and that would negate the need for belief or faith. So if science found, measurable evidence of god, then it would be as true as salt water is denser/heavier than pure water.

So, science does not believe in NO god. So it is not a religion. This is simply a childish attempt to equate the two.

Oh and what of evolution?

Well we don't 'believe' that either...there is evidence to suggest there is such a thing as EVO. So we chase up that evidence until we're proved right or wrong.

Contrast this with the fact that there is no evidence to justify the GOD HYPOTHESIS. And every bit of 'so-called-evidence' put forward has been demolished...

It really is the poorest theory of life, the Universe and everything, ever put forward for scientific scrutiny. Grade { F--} See Me!

Scientists do not debate with faithers for the sake of understanding faith, it is to destroy the wicked fallacy of corruption throughout the world.

What a better place the world would be with, say, Professor R. Dawkins as President!

Griff...

Gulliamo · 7th May 2007, 11:34 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3130360&page=1

I was there for the taping of this and was asked several questions on camera. I doubt anything with me will make the cut but I would like to see the episode anyway.

Kirk offered up 3 basic proofs:
1. Argument from design - held up a Coke can, said this is complex, must be designed; I am complex, I must be designed.

2. Argument from morality - I am moral, the bible tells me to be moral (yes, he mentioned the Bible and the 10 comandments), therefore God made me.

3. Pascal's wager - we all know this one.

One interesting thing was how they dodged the question of religion and God being a regional phenomenon - that if they were born in Pakistan they would believe in Allah.

The funniest line? Kirk Cameron said, "I'll pray for you." Brian Sapient from Rational Responders replied, "I'll think for you."

Malachi151 · 7th May 2007, 11:49 AM

Brian Sapient isn't a great mind, and I'm tired of the so called Rational Responders. They should have gotten a real authority to engage in this debate.

I would have done much better than these people. I'm sick of people who don't know what they are talking about talking on these issues.

skeptifem · 7th May 2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

The funniest line? Kirk Cameron said, "I'll pray for you." Brian Sapient from Rational Responders replied, "I'll think for you."

LOL! I am soooo going to use that in the future.

*yawn* those arguments are predictable and obviously not logical. especially pascal's wager. I would think its flaws are especially obvious.

28th April 2007, 07:03 PM	#41
Fronzel Thinker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 218	I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time.
Fronzel Thinker Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 218

28th April 2007, 09:56 PM	#42
Daylight Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 499	After reading Brian’s site, shouldn’t the Rational Response Squad for their opening remarks simply say “We feel that to prove the existence of god requires a significant amount of time, we’d like to yield our initial time to Mr Comfort and Mr Cameron to present their evidence. After they have presented their evidence, we’ll debate the evidence they present. We turn the floor over to them” And then walk off the stage. After the “evidence” has been presented, return to the stage and stick to only debating the presented evidence and how it does not prove god exists. When evolution is brought up always say “We’ll be happy to return and debate “Creationism vs Evolution” on another show but it has nothing to do with “proving God's existence, absolutely, scientifically, without mentioning the Bible or faith”.
Daylight Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 499

28th April 2007, 11:30 PM	#43
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	Fat chance of that happening, Daylight. Those christians are good at bait and switching a "god" debate into a "defend evolution" debate.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

29th April 2007, 03:57 AM	#44
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,438	Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe). Has there been any confirmation of this from ABC news, or is the buzz on the 'Net only from Raptureready and Christiannews or whatever was cited earlier?
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

29th April 2007, 06:25 AM	#45
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,929	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe). Has there been any confirmation of this from ABC news, or is the buzz on the 'Net only from Raptureready and Christiannews or whatever was cited earlier? I couldn't find anything when I posted the OP. Today, I see that the Rational Response message board has this statement: Quote: It'll be Kelly and I, May 5th in NYC talking with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron on ABC's website. Martin Bashir will moderate and you'll be able see the whole thing live (90 minutes) on ABC's website (probably the Nightline section). Then there will be a recap on a Nightline segment later.
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board. Last edited by Ladewig; 29th April 2007 at 06:35 AM.

29th April 2007, 07:03 AM	#46
neon Scholar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: FL Posts: 105	This is going to be funny.

29th April 2007, 08:03 AM	#47
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,438	Originally Posted by Ladewig I couldn't find anything when I posted the OP. Today, I see that the Rational Response message board has this statement: I'm subscribed to this thread and I don't do anything that requires broadband at work and I'm stuck on dial-up at home, can you either give me a 24 hour heads up for the Nightline edition or provide a general transcript for the webcast for those of us who won't be able to check it out? I would love to see Cameron eat some Crowe.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

29th April 2007, 02:41 PM	#48
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,289	Originally Posted by SezMe I'm afraid it's over before it can even begin. Several posters are praying for the god side and we all know the power of prayer. Bummer. Why yes, yes we do - and that would be NONE!!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,289

30th April 2007, 05:48 AM	#49
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,289	Originally Posted by nails3jesus0 Ive watched their show, 'way of the master' before (its where the banana clip came from). They cant even present a passable argument in a completely controlled enviroment where they can edit the comments of others (and they certainly do). They will fail HARD, and it will be hilarious. I like banana clips too - they work really well in the AK-47 and they don't get in the way like longer straight magazines do.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,289

30th April 2007, 06:04 AM	#50
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,584	Originally Posted by Fronzel I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time. at that age, depending on his circumstances, it probably didn't need a deep intellectual conversion. typically, people need some sense of belonging. especially at that age. If he wasn't getting it from other sources (It doesn't seem common for a teen in holliwood to get a nurturing environment), he would have turned to something. It just happened to be christianity. I think that is part of why scientology is so successful. They provide spiritual "answers" without the burden of guilt and responsibility that christian faiths typically have.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

30th April 2007, 10:46 AM	#51
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner Actually Ken, their usual tactic is a forray into "prove abiogenesis", then move in to evolution (maybe). Most of them seem to think abiogenesis and the big bang theory are part of evolutionary theory.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

30th April 2007, 11:14 AM	#52
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,608	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Most of them seem to think abiogenesis and the big bang theory are part of evolutionary theory. Well, to them, "evolution" means "any bit of science I don't like." Geology is "evolution" because it shows the world to be 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000. Astronomy is "evolution" because it shows a universe that is far older and larger than the writers of the Bible could comprehend (of course, most people, including astronomers, still can't comprehend just how huge it really is). And so on, and so forth.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

30th April 2007, 09:15 PM	#53
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Fronzel I thought Kirk had converted to godism at 16 or something. I just can't imagine him having a deep intellectual decision to covert one way or the other at that time. I think he'd have to have been pretty young given that he made that gosh-awful, thinly veiled, anti-abortion flick "Listen To Me" just after his stint on "Growing Pains." Of course, this was a vastly superior cinematic achievement to ANY of the "Left Behind" movies. As for his claims that he was once a atheist, you have to remember that many fundies believe that if you don't belong to their particular denomination (or even congregation) you aren't "really" a Christian; for all intents and purpose, you're an "atheist" if you don't belong their church. So who knows what he really believed or not? For all we know, he could have been a hard core Catholic until he found "true religion" in the Church Of Jesus Christ, Snake Handler, Accountant, and Gynecologist with Signs Coming.
	__________________ "As the Corpse Lord knows, men today are ill-trained--ignoble: naught but wet anuses dribbling childish terrors and superstitions! Thus is knowledge--history, science, the world of the ancients--lost, never to be regained!" --M.A.R. Barker, "The Man of Gold" Last edited by Achán hiNidráne; 30th April 2007 at 09:21 PM.

30th April 2007, 10:54 PM	#54
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	Well, I think Kirk is telling the truth about once being an atheist, but only because we're all born atheist.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

1st May 2007, 05:30 AM	#55
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,584	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Well, I think Kirk is telling the truth about once being an atheist, but only because we're all born atheist. We are also born illiterate and ignorant, what does that prove?
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

1st May 2007, 05:38 AM	#56
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,608	Originally Posted by joobz We are also born illiterate and ignorant, what does that prove? That if Cameron said "I was once illiterate and ignorant," he'd be telling the truth. Of course, the question then would be whether he ever got better...
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

2nd May 2007, 09:17 AM	#57
The Grave Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 649	If god created matter, in it's quantum state la, la, la...then IT created the process of thought itself, ergo IT created us and them to think the way we think and so there is no free will. I think that the best thing to do is offer up some DNA samples and test for a god gene. I'll bet the pope doesn't have one! Griff...

2nd May 2007, 09:58 AM	#58
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,761	Originally Posted by polaristutoring@tisc I'll bet the pope doesn't have one! The president's is very short. Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard. Madonna doesn't have one. The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it. What is it?
	__________________ Is there a God? Find the answer at The Official God FAQ.

2nd May 2007, 11:27 AM	#59
ShowerComic Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 393	Originally Posted by fuelair I always assumed Kirk was saying bananas must be intelligently designed because they were the perfect shape for him to pleasure himself with. I think there is a similar youtube video about the cucumber for similar reasons. -- Even better than the Bananna -- Good Raw, Pickled, and ahem -- there are children present

2nd May 2007, 11:54 AM	#60
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Reminds me of that old top-ten list "Why Cucumbers are Better Than Men". But I think that was outdone by "Why Beer is Better Than Women". (My favorite was "Beer doesn't get jealous when you pick up another beer.")
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

2nd May 2007, 12:08 PM	#61
ThatSoundAgain Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cph Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by CurtC The president's is very short. Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard. Madonna doesn't have one. The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it. What is it? Erm.. Banana? No, wait - is that an African Schwarzenegger or a European Schwarzenegger?

2nd May 2007, 12:10 PM	#62
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,584	Originally Posted by CurtC The president's is very short. Arnold Schwarzenegger's is long and hard. Madonna doesn't have one. The Pope has one, but he doesn't use it. What is it? last name
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

2nd May 2007, 02:14 PM	#63
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables.
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	__________________ Avatar (c) Neopets.com

2nd May 2007, 02:18 PM	#64
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by ChristineR Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables. That's what stopped me from saying last name.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

2nd May 2007, 02:28 PM	#65
mijopaalmc Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,814	Originally Posted by ChristineR Madonna Ciccone. Three syllables. Actually, it's Ritchie. Slightly less dirty-sounding than Ciccone.
mijopaalmc Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,814

2nd May 2007, 08:52 PM	#66
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	I'm not sure that atheists have quite figured this out yet. The media has shown little interest in honest debate on this subject. Consider that with all the humans that could coherently represent a theist pov, The Great Almighty - creator of the universe - is sending Kurt Cameron to represent him that we might believe. There is a debate trying to get going about God and religion, but it is not well defined and so far the advantage goes to those who entertain the best, rather than those who inform or educate. Kurt may or may not be a complete idiot, but he is an actor and entertainer with many years experience in front of a camera.

2nd May 2007, 09:09 PM	#67
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	(I know it's 'Kirk', but with 1.7 million google hits on 'Kurt' Cameron I couldn't resist...)

3rd May 2007, 05:59 AM	#68
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,761	I'm Curt Cameron. No relation.
	__________________ Is there a God? Find the answer at The Official God FAQ.

3rd May 2007, 07:49 AM	#69
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3130360&page=2 The abc article/promo for the upcoming show. Here is something interestingly weird that Comfort says: "We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't." I can only hope that the Rational Response Squad debate this well, because I'd hate to find out that I don't exist.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

3rd May 2007, 07:56 AM	#70
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,608	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken "We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't." What the hell....? I suppose this could be just some twisted ad hom: "I think, therefore I am" is a logical proof. Since atheists don't think, they don't exist. (Yes, I have heard people spout such rubbish.)
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

3rd May 2007, 07:58 AM	#71
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	Actually, I think it's the old "no atheists in foxholes" fallacy.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

3rd May 2007, 08:31 AM	#72
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,761	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken "We cannot only prove that God exists, but we can prove that the atheist doesn't." If you've ever watched any of the Way of the Master videos (such as the infamous banana/nightmare one), you'll see that Comfort defines "atheist" as "a person who has proof that God does not exist," and since disproof of God is logically impossible, therefore there are no atheists.
	__________________ Is there a God? Find the answer at The Official God FAQ.

3rd May 2007, 08:44 AM	#73
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 21,063	Oh, so he has strawmen atheists. Gotcha.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

3rd May 2007, 12:05 PM	#74
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Looks like the show was moved to May 9th at 2pm. No time zone listed though. As always the 'comments' section is most revealing. I'd watch a show that walked through them one by one and had each side try and explain their advocates. My favorites are by poster 'PhilosopyMan'. They are a surreal yet prophetic work of art from the misspelling of 'Philosophy' right down to the fervent hope that we atheists see the light before it is too late. He should be on TV. Quote: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/comm...ory&id=3130360 You know what I don't really care what people believe or don't believe, people have the right to believe whatever they want and I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you people. Just keep summer or mid 2007 in mind. Because I had a dream that something is gonna happen and its not gonna be pretty, and its wierd too because I heard a man on tv in Peru had the same encounter 7 years ago. So I'm really tripping. And atheist your gonna wanna wish you believed in something. Will see if my dream comes true I hope it dosn't cause dang its scary. Posted by: PhilosopyMan

3rd May 2007, 12:08 PM	#75
Cactus Wren Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West of Superstition Posts: 897	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3130360&page=2 The abc article/promo for the upcoming show. Check out the comments page. One user, posting under the handle "PhilosopyMan" [sic], can only resort to (overfamiliar) thinly veiled threats in lieu of argument: "So since we are a product of cosmic accident you shouldn't get mad then right if I were to kick your grandma in the face?" "Who is anyone to say that I can't kick an old lady in the face. What makes it wrong. If I don't believe in "rules" or "laws" then I have the right to kick an old lady in the face. RIGHT?" Stop trying to persuade me, because if you do persuade me I'm likely to come over and kick your grandmother in the face!