Magicians sue Japan TV networks

Orangutan · 1st May 2007, 01:08 PM

I don't think this has been posted already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6612507.stm

Senex · 1st May 2007, 01:23 PM

I'm against a TV show exposing magic tricks. It is mean spirited exposing methods to the public. Having said that I'll admit that I've seen some effects that I wished to learn without paying for. I put the name of the effect in Youtube and watched some piker screw it up so I could learn.

geni · 1st May 2007, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Orangutan

I don't think this has been posted already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6612507.stm

I don't know japanese IP law that well but such a case would not fly under UK or US law.

People who invent magic tricks are in a particularly sucky legal position. Copyright only provides a limited amount of protection and patent requires that you reveal how the trick is done (ok historicaly you might have been able to do something with a submarine patent but the relivant loophole has fortunetly been closed).

On the other hand they appear to expect tricks to stay secret for far longer than the 20 years protection that would be given by a patent.

Hawk one · 1st May 2007, 03:08 PM

And of course, there's the issue that this was (most likely) revealed as a newscase because, apparently, the tricks in question broke Japanese law. I have a feeling the judge will take this into consideration, which should mean that they have even less of a leg to stand on.

Brown · 1st May 2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

The two networks revealed how the coin tricks were completed last November, after a magician and a pub operator were arrested for punching holes in coins.

It is against the law to damage or melt coins in Japan.

Interesting. Some magicians in the USA punch holes in coins to create "pen through quarter" props, which can be given away to spectators as souvenirs. Basically, the effect is that a coin is shown--with no hole--and a pen (or similar object) is visibly passed through it. A skillful performer can allow audience members to examine (or keep) the pen through coin. Not only will the spectator be baffled as to how a coin without a hole suddenly acquired a hole, the spectator will also be puzzled as to how a pen that seemed to pass so smoothly through the coin now seems to be stuck and unremovable from the coin. (Sorry, how those mysteries are accomplished are guarded secrets!)

Michael Ammar is a performer who has used these props, and at least one of his videos describes where a magician can take rolls of coins to get them "punched."

bob_dezon · 6th May 2007, 05:25 AM

This story was mentioned in this weeks commentary.

Hawk one · 6th May 2007, 06:15 PM

Yeah. Randi didn't get the fact about the damaging of coins being illegal in Japan, which I believe is a very good possible reason for the revelation...

bob_dezon · 7th May 2007, 04:56 AM

I believe its also illegal to deface currency in england too.

geni · 15th July 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by bob_dezon

I believe its also illegal to deface currency in england too.

No they droped that law sometime over a decade ago

1st May 2007, 01:08 PM	#1
Orangutan Graduate Poster Tagger Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Florida. Posts: 1,163	Magicians sue Japan TV networks I don't think this has been posted already. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6612507.stm

1st May 2007, 03:08 PM	#4
Hawk one Bond Villain Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Guitar Hero dressing room... Posts: 9,750	And of course, there's the issue that this was (most likely) revealed as a newscase because, apparently, the tricks in question broke Japanese law. I have a feeling the judge will take this into consideration, which should mean that they have even less of a leg to stand on.
	__________________ Every time you feed a troll, Jack Thompson files a motion. Think of the judges! I joined up on the forum solely because I am a big fan of Hawk One. - FSM From the chatroom: <Matt> Hawk, I am going to abduct you from wherever you happen to live and appoint you Minister of Humor. <--- Matt dared me to put in this

1st May 2007, 05:10 PM	#5
Brown Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 9,117	Quote: The two networks revealed how the coin tricks were completed last November, after a magician and a pub operator were arrested for punching holes in coins. It is against the law to damage or melt coins in Japan. Interesting. Some magicians in the USA punch holes in coins to create "pen through quarter" props, which can be given away to spectators as souvenirs. Basically, the effect is that a coin is shown--with no hole--and a pen (or similar object) is visibly passed through it. A skillful performer can allow audience members to examine (or keep) the pen through coin. Not only will the spectator be baffled as to how a coin without a hole suddenly acquired a hole, the spectator will also be puzzled as to how a pen that seemed to pass so smoothly through the coin now seems to be stuck and unremovable from the coin. (Sorry, how those mysteries are accomplished are guarded secrets!) Michael Ammar is a performer who has used these props, and at least one of his videos describes where a magician can take rolls of coins to get them "punched."
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

6th May 2007, 05:25 AM	#6
bob_dezon Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 78	This story was mentioned in this weeks commentary.
bob_dezon Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 78

6th May 2007, 06:15 PM	#7
Hawk one Bond Villain Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Guitar Hero dressing room... Posts: 9,750	Yeah. Randi didn't get the fact about the damaging of coins being illegal in Japan, which I believe is a very good possible reason for the revelation...
	__________________ Every time you feed a troll, Jack Thompson files a motion. Think of the judges! I joined up on the forum solely because I am a big fan of Hawk One. - FSM From the chatroom: <Matt> Hawk, I am going to abduct you from wherever you happen to live and appoint you Minister of Humor. <--- Matt dared me to put in this

1st May 2007, 01:23 PM	#2
Senex Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 1,835	I'm against a TV show exposing magic tricks. It is mean spirited exposing methods to the public. Having said that I'll admit that I've seen some effects that I wished to learn without paying for. I put the name of the effect in Youtube and watched some piker screw it up so I could learn.

1st May 2007, 01:48 PM	#3
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 20,280	Originally Posted by Orangutan I don't think this has been posted already. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6612507.stm I don't know japanese IP law that well but such a case would not fly under UK or US law. People who invent magic tricks are in a particularly sucky legal position. Copyright only provides a limited amount of protection and patent requires that you reveal how the trick is done (ok historicaly you might have been able to do something with a submarine patent but the relivant loophole has fortunetly been closed). On the other hand they appear to expect tricks to stay secret for far longer than the 20 years protection that would be given by a patent.

7th May 2007, 04:56 AM	#8
bob_dezon Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 78	I believe its also illegal to deface currency in england too.
bob_dezon Scholar Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 78

15th July 2007, 11:51 AM	#9
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 20,280	Originally Posted by bob_dezon I believe its also illegal to deface currency in england too. No they droped that law sometime over a decade ago