The lack of Barium Nitrate

[Undesired Walrus]

So, Grandpapa Jones seems to lack a massive feature of what makes up Thermate, Barium Nitrate. Given this rather glaring ommision, I find it somewhat perplexing how he can even claim it to be thermate remains. The only possible refution is this bloke on this website.

http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Dr_Stev...?cshow=6468530

Quote:

The lack of Barium Nitrate in the USGS analysis proves nothing that I can see. Looking at various portions of the microsphere will net different results.

The USGS sigature is almost identical to the signature of some of Dr. Jones' results. However, looking at other portions of Dr. Jones' spheres shows the existence of Barium Nitrate.It depends on where you look with your microprobe.

The improtant part of the USGS graph is that the result is not what one would expect to see from a fire and gravity collapse and very much like what you would see as a result of a thermate reaction.

Any reply to this?

Let me get it straight truthers, if Jones found Barium Nitrate, then good for him, but at the moment, the compounds are simply just what makes up a skyscraper.

[gumboot]

OMFGWTFBBQ!!!111!!!

D1SINFO!!!!

Ther woz iron found in teh samplez of teh dust0r!!!!!111!!!! Iron comes from teh THERM1TE!!111!!!!! INSIDE JOOOOB

-Gumboot

[defaultdotxbe]

another thing hes missing is aluminum oxide (there is a big thread at SLCF about this too)

its one thing to find aluminum and iron oxide (rust) which are inredients in therm*te, however when therm*te is burned the products are aluminum oxide and elemental iron

if you think therm*te was used we should see about 70% (by weight) aluminum oxide, this is about 40 times the amount fo sulphur youd expect to find, given that truthers latch onto the "high amounts" sulphur like it was their mothers teat they shoudl be swimming in aluminum oxide, yet we see none

[gumboot]

The aluminium oxide was destroyed using explosives, obviously.

-Gumboot

[Brainster]

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

So, Grandpapa Jones seems to lack a massive feature of what makes up Thermate, Barium Nitrate. Given this rather glaring ommision, I find it somewhat perplexing how he can even claim it to be thermate remains. The only possible refution is this bloke on this website.

http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Dr_Stev...?cshow=6468530

Any reply to this?

Let me get it straight truthers, if Jones found Barium Nitrate, then good for him, but at the moment, the compounds are simply just what makes up a skyscraper.

Who is dumb enough to use the dust samples, http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2005/1165/table_1.html , for evidence of thermate?

The Barium in the samples is barium sulfate, and then some idiot goes on to say the KMnO4 was in a sample. The sample is a piece of cement. A piece of dust from the cement in the air is not used to start a thermite reaction. It is used by mentally deficient morons to support Dr Jones who is making up lies about 9/11. Why are people so dumb?

[Undesired Walrus]

Why is Stephen Jones, a bloke who presumably knows about physics and whatnot, doing this? Does he know he is wrong about Barium?

[Redtail]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Why is Stephen Jones, a bloke who presumably knows about physics and whatnot, doing this? Does he know he is wrong about Barium?

A. He sees dollar signs for LC:TSFC and thinks, "Wow! Imagine what someone who actually had credentials could do!?!

B. He's smart but wooish. You can find this in many. (In some it's stronger than others.)

C. If enough people said "let's have a new investigation" he sees himself taking a good share of the credit seeing as he is one of the few who has the ability to back up his "research" beyond "OMGZERS!!11! Look at this video!" (Heck that's all LC is really)

God knows what other reasons there could be.

[Undesired Walrus]

Originally Posted by Redtail

B. He's smart but wooish. You can find this in many. (In some it's stronger than others.)

Yea, I find those types odd.

[PhantomWolf]

Since I don't feel like signing up, does someone that can want to point out Manganese is a component of the Structural Steel alloy, used to decrease the effects of sulphur and thus make the steel stronger. While I'm not sure that he still uses it, Dr Jones intially claimed that structural steel had chromium in it, not manganese, and so the manganese had to be potassium permanganate. This is totally incorrect. Structural Steel uses manganese and so manganese is an expected signature from structural steel. Chromium is added to Stainless Steel.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Why is Stephen Jones, a bloke who presumably knows about physics and whatnot, doing this? Does he know he is wrong about Barium?

Nothing requires a physicist to know combinatorial chemistry. Physics of atoms/molecules is interested in the forces and interactions of the particles not on compounds and reaction product.

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by fuelair

Nothing requires a physicist to know combinatorial chemistry. Physics of atoms/molecules is interested in the forces and interactions of the particles not on compounds and reaction product.

Exactly right. Us chemists need to know a whole lot more physics than physicists need to know chemistry. In fact back in the 15th century something when I was at Varsity (Australasian phasing) we covered a lot of topics in my Chemistry lectures before we covered them in my Physics ones.

[fuelair]

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

Exactly right. Us chemists need to know a whole lot more physics than physicists need to know chemistry. In fact back in the 15th century something when I was at Varsity (Australasian phasing) we covered a lot of topics in my Chemistry lectures before we covered them in my Physics ones.

And that would indeed be the order of these things!!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

Yea, I find those types odd.

See Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things, the newest ed, which includes a new section "Why Smart People Believe Weird Things". Covers how, even in smart people, thinking can go wrong and how it can be harder to get smart people to change their minds because their smarts make it easier for them to defend their beliefs.

[The Almond]

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

So, Grandpapa Jones seems to lack a massive feature of what makes up Thermate, Barium Nitrate. Given this rather glaring ommision, I find it somewhat perplexing how he can even claim it to be thermate remains. The only possible refution is this bloke on this website.

http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Dr_Stev...?cshow=6468530



Any reply to this?

Just to respond to your opening piece Walrus, the poster is absolutely correct that the barium signature in the USGS data and Jones's data are nearly identical. In fact, the X-Ray signals for barium overlap almost exactly with titanium. Barium L alpha appears at 4.465 keV, and titanium K alpha appears at 4.510 keV. So yeah, like Jones's magic fluorine (iron and fluorine have a similar overlap), he's failed to account for peak overlap. I might add that this is something that any materials scientist would have picked up, and that this seems to be further proof that Jones is a hack with no real scientific training.

Also, the poster is partially correct with regard to the microprobe. However, the size of the interaction volume is dependent on the density of the material, the accelerating potential of the electrons, and the mass absorption coefficient. I recall that the USGS used an Aspex microprobe to do this particle analysis. That particular instrument uses a scan raster to cover the entire particle.

[njslim]

Barium is used in flourescent lights as an "emitter" to generate electrons.
Wonder how many fourescent lights were in the towers? Must run into the
tens if not hundreds of thousands. This should account for the barium
signature found in the ground zone rubble. Flourine is found in many plastics
(Teflon) and refrigerants (Freon). There were plenty of everyday sources
for barium, flourine, manganese and other substances besides thermite or
Thermate (modified thermite).

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by The Almond

Just to respond to your opening piece Walrus, the poster is absolutely correct that the barium signature in the USGS data and Jones's data are nearly identical. In fact, the X-Ray signals for barium overlap almost exactly with titanium. Barium L alpha appears at 4.465 keV, and titanium K alpha appears at 4.510 keV. So yeah, like Jones's magic fluorine (iron and fluorine have a similar overlap), he's failed to account for peak overlap. I might add that this is something that any materials scientist would have picked up, and that this seems to be further proof that Jones is a hack with no real scientific training.

You mean Jones managed to learn nothing from Pons & Fleishmann? Sheesh.

[Civilized Worm]

My sources tell me that further tests by Jones have found traces of both barium nitrate and aluminum oxide. He plans on publishing these findings just as soon as he's put the final touches to his perpetual motion machine.