Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful, Noble Savage

Nie Trink Wasser · 14th August 2003, 01:14 PM

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...062208-2270263

http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...wman081403.asp

" A useful corrective to the bland assumption that seems to be shared by Miss Dowd and Mr. Braudy — namely that warlike-posturing is what produces wars rather than being produced by them — is to be found in Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful, Noble Savage by Steven A. LeBlanc (with Katherine E. Register) (St. Martin's Press, 272 pages, $25.95). The book is as much a critique of academic anthropology's willful blindness to the centrality of warfare in human experience as it is an adumbration of the reasons for accepting that centrality. "

Mr Manifesto · 14th August 2003, 08:07 PM

That's nice. Do you have your own opinion on the subject?

The Central Scrutinizer · 14th August 2003, 09:22 PM

The "Noble Savage" was discredited years ago, and this genius Winky Tinky Wuss is just now figuring it out?

LW · 15th August 2003, 04:33 AM

I have bought and read the book. It is quite good and well-reasoned. However, it perhaps emphasized a little too much the "constant" part of the name. It leaves the impression that all primitive societies were in a constant warfare with their neighbors. It mentions only very briefly that there is evidence that some cultures managed to live several centuries in a relative peace before a new period of brutal warfare set in.

But anyway, I recommend reading it.

a_unique_person · 15th August 2003, 04:43 AM

Coming up next: Debunking the myth of the Peaceful, Nobel Westerner.

Nie Trink Wasser · 15th August 2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
The "Noble Savage" was discredited years ago, and this genius Winky Tinky Wuss is just now figuring it out?

oh really, Central Spincter ?

"discredited" eh ? let us see this "discrediting".

Quote:

Coming up next: Debunking the myth of the Peaceful, Nobel Westerner.

you have got to be the most guilt ridden goon here.
there comes a point on this here board in which you see someone's name and you either respond or you're just completely indifferent because you know how stupid the person is.

you're very "unique" to me in that way, but Ive decided to respond anyway out of pity.

LucyR · 15th August 2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser

you have got to be the most guilt ridden goon here.

No. I'd say it was 'The Fool'.

Anyway, the recurring theme of the 'noble savage' was partly why I could never stand Steinbeck.

Diamond · 19th August 2003, 07:32 AM

I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs.

Nie Trink Wasser · 19th August 2003, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diamond
I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs.

wow.

in North America we don't really think our land mass has as much pandering effect as you seem to think yours does.

KelvinG · 19th August 2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diamond
I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs.

So true. You'd be hard pressed to find another country outside of the USA that would find the National Review as anything more than a journal for misguided morons.

Nie Trink Wasser · 20th August 2003, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KelvinG

So true. You'd be hard pressed to find another country outside of the USA that would find the National Review as anything more than a journal for misguided morons.

your ability to ignore the book and address only the source of the review is quite boring.

Checkmite · 20th August 2003, 07:58 PM

I made a plug for that book in my article on the "Beautiful People" myth for Skeptic Report. It's a good book, but it's known about. It's true, warfare and environmental destruction has defined Man pretty much ever since he's been Man. Since there's a general consensus on this, then...?

14th August 2003, 01:14 PM	#1
Nie Trink Wasser Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,333	Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful, Noble Savage http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...062208-2270263 http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...wman081403.asp " A useful corrective to the bland assumption that seems to be shared by Miss Dowd and Mr. Braudy — namely that warlike-posturing is what produces wars rather than being produced by them — is to be found in Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful, Noble Savage by Steven A. LeBlanc (with Katherine E. Register) (St. Martin's Press, 272 pages, $25.95). The book is as much a critique of academic anthropology's willful blindness to the centrality of warfare in human experience as it is an adumbration of the reasons for accepting that centrality. "
	__________________ "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306) "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Louis D. Brandeis "Heâ€™s pulled back the curtain to reveal places like Harvard as the gratuitous institutions theyâ€™ve become ever since graduating the Unabomber (and other like-minded lunatics) who can justify terrorism all too easily with the moral indifference of postmodernism."

14th August 2003, 09:22 PM	#3
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,277	The "Noble Savage" was discredited years ago, and this genius Winky Tinky Wuss is just now figuring it out?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

15th August 2003, 04:43 AM	#5
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,329	Coming up next: Debunking the myth of the Peaceful, Nobel Westerner.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

15th August 2003, 12:05 PM	#6
Nie Trink Wasser Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,333	Quote: Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer The "Noble Savage" was discredited years ago, and this genius Winky Tinky Wuss is just now figuring it out? oh really, Central Spincter ? "discredited" eh ? let us see this "discrediting". Quote: Coming up next: Debunking the myth of the Peaceful, Nobel Westerner. you have got to be the most guilt ridden goon here. there comes a point on this here board in which you see someone's name and you either respond or you're just completely indifferent because you know how stupid the person is. you're very "unique" to me in that way, but Ive decided to respond anyway out of pity.
	__________________ "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306) "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Louis D. Brandeis "Heâ€™s pulled back the curtain to reveal places like Harvard as the gratuitous institutions theyâ€™ve become ever since graduating the Unabomber (and other like-minded lunatics) who can justify terrorism all too easily with the moral indifference of postmodernism."

15th August 2003, 10:12 PM	#7
LucyR Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,086	Quote: Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser you have got to be the most guilt ridden goon here. No. I'd say it was 'The Fool'. Anyway, the recurring theme of the 'noble savage' was partly why I could never stand Steinbeck.
LucyR Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,086

14th August 2003, 08:07 PM	#2
Mr Manifesto Hierophant Walrus of the Secret Clique Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 4,824	That's nice. Do you have your own opinion on the subject?

15th August 2003, 04:33 AM	#4
LW Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 60°N 25°E Posts: 2,800	I have bought and read the book. It is quite good and well-reasoned. However, it perhaps emphasized a little too much the "constant" part of the name. It leaves the impression that all primitive societies were in a constant warfare with their neighbors. It mentions only very briefly that there is evidence that some cultures managed to live several centuries in a relative peace before a new period of brutal warfare set in. But anyway, I recommend reading it.

19th August 2003, 07:32 AM	#8
Diamond SkepticWiki Founder Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: 'Stralia Posts: 4,748	I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs.
	__________________ "The good thing about the Internet is that no matter how many repressed cretins with outmoded morals and religious fundamentalist idiots hate what you have to say, they cannot burn a website." -www.rinderpest.com

19th August 2003, 09:14 AM	#9
Nie Trink Wasser Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,333	Quote: Originally posted by Diamond I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs. wow. in North America we don't really think our land mass has as much pandering effect as you seem to think yours does.
	__________________ "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306) "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Louis D. Brandeis "Heâ€™s pulled back the curtain to reveal places like Harvard as the gratuitous institutions theyâ€™ve become ever since graduating the Unabomber (and other like-minded lunatics) who can justify terrorism all too easily with the moral indifference of postmodernism."

19th August 2003, 09:55 AM	#10
KelvinG Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 2,379	Quote: Originally posted by Diamond I'm sorry but in Europe we only read the National Review for the laughs. So true. You'd be hard pressed to find another country outside of the USA that would find the National Review as anything more than a journal for misguided morons.
	__________________ Science is like a blabbermouth that ruins the ending to a movie. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things - Ned Flanders

20th August 2003, 08:15 AM	#11
Nie Trink Wasser Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,333	Quote: Originally posted by KelvinG So true. You'd be hard pressed to find another country outside of the USA that would find the National Review as anything more than a journal for misguided morons. your ability to ignore the book and address only the source of the review is quite boring.
	__________________ "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." - Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306) "Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." - Louis D. Brandeis "Heâ€™s pulled back the curtain to reveal places like Harvard as the gratuitous institutions theyâ€™ve become ever since graduating the Unabomber (and other like-minded lunatics) who can justify terrorism all too easily with the moral indifference of postmodernism."

20th August 2003, 07:58 PM	#12
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,887	I made a plug for that book in my article on the "Beautiful People" myth for Skeptic Report. It's a good book, but it's known about. It's true, warfare and environmental destruction has defined Man pretty much ever since he's been Man. Since there's a general consensus on this, then...?
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002