Ray Comfort offers $10,000 for a "transitional" fossil - Page 2

Miss Anthrope · 22nd May 2007, 02:37 PM

I'd like Comfort to prove Kirk Cameron isn't a banana.

Bob Klase · 22nd May 2007, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Wavicle

Actually I think he's offering $10K for proof that evolution is wrong. If a dog gave birth to a cat, that'd pretty well crush our theory as it stands.

Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight."

vIQleS · 22nd May 2007, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert

http://www.trilobita.de/gallery/othe...aeopteryx1.jpg

I dunno - looks like a fake to me. Isn't that just too perfect to be true?

UnrepentantSinner · 23rd May 2007, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight."

That is actually a very good idea. Every time those of you have read this thread encounter someone who mentions Comfort's challenge point out this fact.

I'm not sure which C&C Disinformation Factory thread to attach this link to but this one will do.
Christian Post article critical of C&C.

Kahalachan · 23rd May 2007, 02:44 AM

Comfort wants to see a Chimera, not a transitional fossil.

Dr Adequate · 23rd May 2007, 04:32 AM

"I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)."

So when he says "transitional form", what he means is "a saltation without any transitional forms in between".

Correa Neto · 23rd May 2007, 05:08 AM

You can show people ambulocetus and mammalian reptiles at Palaeos site such as those below (some of my favorites)
http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...a/430.400.html
http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...0/420.000.html
http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...ml#Cynognathia
http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...l#Eucynodontia

You can explain people how sience works, that researchers are allowed and incentived to disagree. You can show them science quite often moves ahead by questioning its own paradigms.

But the bottomline is that its useless to argue and present evidence with certain people. They will cherry-pick and distort your sentences. They will just ignore what they disagree with.

Instead of focusing in these die-hards, the effort must be concentrated on the educating of the youth.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 23rd May 2007, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dr. A.

So when he says "transitional form", what he means is "a saltation without any transitional forms in between".

In other words, the very thing that current theory says is extraordinarily unlikely.

You know, his wording doesn't even make sense:

"I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)."

If I show him the lizard that produced the bird, or the bird that was produced, I'm not showing him the transitional form at all. What if we just show him a lizard and claim it produced a bird?

~~ Paul

Correa Neto · 23rd May 2007, 05:19 AM

Like uhm...

Claiming the Earth is 6Ky old?

Nah... You don't have the bible to back you...

Locknar · 23rd May 2007, 05:40 AM

I suspect that Comfort is playing on the “man evolved from apes” misconception of evolution.

I would like to take this opportunity to issue my own challenge to Comfort and/or Cameron; I’m offering $1.00 (that is ONE U.S. Dollar) for proof that creationism is a irrefutable explanation as to how the universe and mankind (let alone all living things) came into existence.

This proof would have to be presented orally in a public forum by God, or Jesus to a pannel of my choosing (to be named once a date for this event has been provided by Comfort and/or Cameron and agreed upon by all parties); written “documentation” presented by a 3rd party will not be accepted.

The belief that an all encompassing “being” would create the universe and all living things for us (ie. “mankind”) is the true fairytale being told here; and I’m willing to risk my own money (ONE U.S. Dollar) to back up my claim.

On the other hand...I wonder if Comfort would accpet a Turducken as valid proof; slow roasted with pan gravy...not only does it seem to meet his definition of evolution but is also a tasty treat.

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 05:58 AM

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

In other words, the very thing that current theory says is extraordinarily unlikely.

You know, his wording doesn't even make sense:

"I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)."

If I show him the lizard that produced the bird, or the bird that was produced, I'm not showing him the transitional form at all. What if we just show him a lizard and claim it produced a bird?

~~ Paul

Yes, Comfort wants "evidence" that a lizard laid an egg that hatched into a sparrow. To anyone with the slightest education in biology this is an utterly moronic demand. But then Comfort's target audience isn't people with an education in biology. Is he really dense enough to believe this s***, or is he just deliberately trying to confuse people as to the true nature of evolutionary theory? Either way he no doubt wants people to think that evolution involves things like a wallaby giving birth to a lobster.

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Locknar

I suspect that Comfort is playing on the “man evolved from apes” misconception of evolution.

I would like to take this opportunity to issue my own challenge to Comfort and/or Cameron; I’m offering $1.00 (that is ONE U.S. Dollar) for proof that creationism is a irrefutable explanation as to how the universe and mankind (let alone all living things) came into existence.

This proof would have to be presented orally in a public forum by God, or Jesus to a pannel of my choosing (to be named once a date for this event has been provided by Comfort and/or Cameron and agreed upon by all parties); written “documentation” presented by a 3rd party will not be accepted.

The belief that an all encompassing “being” would create the universe and all living things for us (ie. “mankind”) is the true fairytale being told here; and I’m willing to risk my own money (ONE U.S. Dollar) to back up my claim.

On the other hand...I wonder if Comfort would accpet a Turducken as valid proof; slow roasted with pan gravy...not only does it seem to meet his definition of evolution but is also a tasty treat.

Oh come on! What are the odds that a deity will show up and you'll have to pay the $1.00? I think you can afford to offer at least $5.00.

Welcome BTW.

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 06:19 AM

In thinking about it some more I'm sure Comfort knows what he's doing. Unlike the JREF challenge, Comfort's challenge is rigged. He simply demands something ridiculous that evolutionary theory never predicts will happen and then tells people too ignorant to know how preposterous his demands are that "biologists can't prove evolution even for $10,000!". The preposterous nature of his demand is necessary for him to avoid paying up. If he legitimately asked for scientific evidence of a transitional form he'd loose his $10,000 in the first 60 seconds. The first person to show him ambulocetus, archaeopterix, osteolepis, hesperornis etc. (and that's just among vertebrate examples) would part him from his cash and make him look like a fool. But then he already looks like a fool to anyone who understands evolutionary theory. If, by making a fool of himself, he can convince other fools that he is a genius then he will have what he wants. Not that it all goes his way though. Those who are not, or are not yet, so indoctrinated by creationism that they are able to weigh the evidence will no doubt be unimpressed by the foolishness of Comfort's actions. He may be a hero to those who are already locked into their creationist beliefs, but I think he will only do damage to creationism in the long run.

tsg · 23rd May 2007, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Is he really dense enough to believe this s***, or is he just deliberately trying to confuse people as to the true nature of evolutionary theory?

I vote for a little of column A and a little of column B.

Someone confused him about what evolutionary theory says and he's trying to spread the ignorance.

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by tsg

I vote for a little of column A and a little of column B.

Someone confused him about what evolutionary theory says and he's trying to spread the ignorance.

I keep thinking "Hasn't he debated enough people to have been told numerous times that what he represents as evolutionary theory has no resemblance to the real thing?". I get the sense that whenever someone says "No Ray, that isn't what the theory of evolution states. This is what it states:" that the explanation is cut off by Ray's fingers in his own ears and the sound of his own voice going "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA".

tsg · 23rd May 2007, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

I keep thinking "Hasn't he debated enough people to have been told numerous times that what he represents as evolutionary theory has no resemblance to the real thing?". I get the sense that whenever someone says "No Ray, that isn't what the theory of evolution states. This is what it states:" that the explanation is cut off by Ray's fingers in his own ears and the sound of his own voice going "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA".

It goes back to the blind faith thing: somebody I trust told me it is, therefore it is. I don't trust you, therefore it is not. Of course an evilutionist is going to lie about what evolution is. Why would my preist/parents lie to me?

There's all kinds of rationalizations that go on when trying to defend one's faith.

CynicalSkeptic · 23rd May 2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Questioninggeller

Would a platypus win the "challenge"?

No. Kirk mentioned it on the Nightline debate when he was showing his Crockaduck and BullFrog pictures. I can't remember what specifically he said about it, but I remember him saying that it didn't qualify.

ChristineR · 23rd May 2007, 12:23 PM

Kirk said that once upon a time scientists believed that the platypus was a "transitional species," i.e. an impossible cross between a duck and a cat or something along those lines, but then scientists learned about genes and evolution and realized that the platypus is no such thing.

Although that's not quite the way Kirk put it, as he thinks that evolution predicts a duckkat.

sbernie87 · 23rd May 2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by CynicalSkeptic

No. Kirk mentioned it on the Nightline debate when he was showing his Crockaduck and BullFrog pictures. I can't remember what specifically he said about it, but I remember him saying that it didn't qualify.

He said something like, "Yeah, the platypus is strange. But that is just the way god designed it," which seems to me would be the exact same thing he would say if there actually was a crocoduck... "Goddidit" can explain anything if you are to stupid to realize it doesn't explain anything.

porch · 23rd May 2007, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Questioninggeller

Would a platypus win the "challenge"?

AKA the Duckobeaver!

Zep · 23rd May 2007, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

In thinking about it some more I'm sure Comfort knows what he's doing. Unlike the JREF challenge, Comfort's challenge is rigged. He simply demands something ridiculous that evolutionary theory never predicts will happen and then tells people too ignorant to know how preposterous his demands are that "biologists can't prove evolution even for $10,000!". The preposterous nature of his demand is necessary for him to avoid paying up. If he legitimately asked for scientific evidence of a transitional form he'd loose his $10,000 in the first 60 seconds. The first person to show him ambulocetus, archaeopterix, osteolepis, hesperornis etc. (and that's just among vertebrate examples) would part him from his cash and make him look like a fool. But then he already looks like a fool to anyone who understands evolutionary theory. If, by making a fool of himself, he can convince other fools that he is a genius then he will have what he wants. Not that it all goes his way though. Those who are not, or are not yet, so indoctrinated by creationism that they are able to weigh the evidence will no doubt be unimpressed by the foolishness of Comfort's actions. He may be a hero to those who are already locked into their creationist beliefs, but I think he will only do damage to creationism in the long run.

Didn't I just say this previously in this thread??

Moon-Spinner · 23rd May 2007, 06:27 PM

Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort:

I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this...
GOD2.JPG

If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like!

joobz · 23rd May 2007, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner

Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort:

I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this...
Attachment 7068

If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like!

seems like full proof logic to me.

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Zep

Didn't I just say this previously in this thread??

Doh! I hadn't read the entire first page. I humbly revise my previous post to "Pretty much what Zep said".

Foster Zygote · 23rd May 2007, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner

Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort:

I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this...
Attachment 7068

If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like!

Is that Xenu?

sk3ptical · 23rd May 2007, 08:09 PM

So similar to the infamous Victor Zammit challenge in the sense that they are, as constructed, un-winnable. Have to wonder, on that basis, why Ray is only offering $10,000. He could offer any amount - no one is going to be able to claim it. Unless, maybe, there is a little voice in his head saying "I might be wrong"! One can hope there is a tiny bit of intelligence left.

Zep · 23rd May 2007, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Doh! I hadn't read the entire first page. I humbly revise my previous post to "Pretty much what Zep said".

Great minds think alike!

Fools seldom differ...

Zep · 23rd May 2007, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight."

Oh that's excellent! Nicely put!

a_unique_person · 23rd May 2007, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Maybe this coelacanth will qualify? Ray may like that one in particular to attempt to show that humans and dinosaurs coexisted.

I like the hagfish .

UnrepentantSinner · 23rd May 2007, 09:32 PM

I say Kirk's cop out on the Platypus is bogus. A transitional fossil is one that exhibits characteristics of two different taxa higher than species level. The the Platypus exhibits characteristics of Class Reptilia and Class Mammalia - exactly what we expect to see in transitionals. Of course Monotremes aren't transitionals between reptiles and mammals (they are mammals after all), that ancestral species existed 150 million years ago, but that doesn't change that Monotremes are living representatives of that ancestral species of transitionals.

RenaissanceBiker · 24th May 2007, 04:42 AM

It looks like there is a woman in China who could take Ray's money.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...9968573613W520

Zep · 24th May 2007, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by sk3ptical

So similar to the infamous Victor Zammit challenge in the sense that they are, as constructed, un-winnable. Have to wonder, on that basis, why Ray is only offering $10,000. He could offer any amount - no one is going to be able to claim it. Unless, maybe, there is a little voice in his head saying "I might be wrong"! One can hope there is a tiny bit of intelligence left.

For the audience Ray wants to impress (I would like to re-emphasise), that's a lot of money.

a_unique_person · 24th May 2007, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker

It looks like there is a woman in China who could take Ray's money.
http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...9968573613W520

I don't know, there's as story but no picture.

Foster Zygote · 24th May 2007, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

I don't know, there's as story but no picture.

Yeah, until I see a confirming photo in the Weekly World News I'm inclined to be skeptical about winged cats.

ChristineR · 24th May 2007, 07:59 AM

Everything you always wanted to know about winged cats:

http://www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.htm

The short version: Most wings are matted fur which results when the cat cannot clean itself properly, but there is also a genetic disorder which causes cats to have loose skin, which in some cases has contributed to the "wing" effect.

22nd May 2007, 02:37 PM	#41
Miss Anthrope All your post are belong to us Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: A Tiny Oasis in the PNW Posts: 3,597	I'd like Comfort to prove Kirk Cameron isn't a banana.
	__________________ We're not elected officials, nor are we paid professionals. You want us to act as such? Fine. Cough up the cash - because as a professional, I don't come cheap."-Jmercer, who happens to rock.[/color]

22nd May 2007, 04:28 PM	#43
vIQleS Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Auckland NZ Posts: 861	Originally Posted by Mark A. Siefert http://www.trilobita.de/gallery/othe...aeopteryx1.jpg I dunno - looks like a fake to me. Isn't that just too perfect to be true?
	__________________ ==--New NZ Skeptical Podcast--== http://thecusp.org.nz "vIQleS, Slap me. Slap me twice." - Foolmewunz

23rd May 2007, 01:01 AM	#44
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,353	Originally Posted by Bob Klase Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight." That is actually a very good idea. Every time those of you have read this thread encounter someone who mentions Comfort's challenge point out this fact. I'm not sure which C&C Disinformation Factory thread to attach this link to but this one will do. Christian Post article critical of C&C.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

23rd May 2007, 02:44 AM	#45
Kahalachan Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,252	Comfort wants to see a Chimera, not a transitional fossil.
Kahalachan Illuminator Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,252

23rd May 2007, 05:08 AM	#47
Correa Neto Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hunting rocks somewhere in Brazil Posts: 7,170	You can show people ambulocetus and mammalian reptiles at Palaeos site such as those below (some of my favorites) http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...a/430.400.html http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...0/420.000.html http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...ml#Cynognathia http://www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/U...l#Eucynodontia You can explain people how sience works, that researchers are allowed and incentived to disagree. You can show them science quite often moves ahead by questioning its own paradigms. But the bottomline is that its useless to argue and present evidence with certain people. They will cherry-pick and distort your sentences. They will just ignore what they disagree with. Instead of focusing in these die-hards, the effort must be concentrated on the educating of the youth.
	__________________ Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too…

22nd May 2007, 03:14 PM	#42
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by Wavicle Actually I think he's offering $10K for proof that evolution is wrong. If a dog gave birth to a cat, that'd pretty well crush our theory as it stands. Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight."

23rd May 2007, 04:32 AM	#46
Dr Adequate Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Waiting Long Enough By The River Posts: 17,897	"I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)." So when he says "transitional form", what he means is "a saltation without any transitional forms in between".

23rd May 2007, 05:14 AM	#48
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,589	Originally Posted by Dr. A. So when he says "transitional form", what he means is "a saltation without any transitional forms in between". In other words, the very thing that current theory says is extraordinarily unlikely. You know, his wording doesn't even make sense: "I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)." If I show him the lizard that produced the bird, or the bird that was produced, I'm not showing him the transitional form at all. What if we just show him a lizard and claim it produced a bird? ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

23rd May 2007, 05:19 AM	#49
Correa Neto Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hunting rocks somewhere in Brazil Posts: 7,170	Like uhm... Claiming the Earth is 6Ky old? Nah... You don't have the bible to back you...
	__________________ Racism, sexism, ignorance, homophobia, intolerance, extremism, authoritarianism, environmental disasters, politically correct crap, violence at sport stadiums, slavery, poverty, wars, people who disagree with me: Together we can find the cure Oh, and together we can find a cure to religion too…

23rd May 2007, 05:40 AM	#50
Locknar Sum of all evils ^tm Deputy Admin Join Date: May 2007 Location: 25.50 N, 77.54 W Posts: 14,130	The Locknar $1 Challenge.... I suspect that Comfort is playing on the “man evolved from apes” misconception of evolution. I would like to take this opportunity to issue my own challenge to Comfort and/or Cameron; I’m offering $1.00 (that is ONE U.S. Dollar) for proof that creationism is a irrefutable explanation as to how the universe and mankind (let alone all living things) came into existence. This proof would have to be presented orally in a public forum by God, or Jesus to a pannel of my choosing (to be named once a date for this event has been provided by Comfort and/or Cameron and agreed upon by all parties); written “documentation” presented by a 3rd party will not be accepted. The belief that an all encompassing “being” would create the universe and all living things for us (ie. “mankind”) is the true fairytale being told here; and I’m willing to risk my own money (ONE U.S. Dollar) to back up my claim. On the other hand...I wonder if Comfort would accpet a Turducken as valid proof; slow roasted with pan gravy...not only does it seem to meet his definition of evolution but is also a tasty treat.

23rd May 2007, 05:58 AM	#51
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos In other words, the very thing that current theory says is extraordinarily unlikely. You know, his wording doesn't even make sense: "I will give $10,000 to the first person who can prove to me that they have found a genuine living transitional form (a lizard that produced a bird, or a dog that produced kittens, or a sheep that produced a chicken, or even as Archaeopteryx—a dinosaur that produced a bird)." If I show him the lizard that produced the bird, or the bird that was produced, I'm not showing him the transitional form at all. What if we just show him a lizard and claim it produced a bird? ~~ Paul Yes, Comfort wants "evidence" that a lizard laid an egg that hatched into a sparrow. To anyone with the slightest education in biology this is an utterly moronic demand. But then Comfort's target audience isn't people with an education in biology. Is he really dense enough to believe this s**, or is he just deliberately trying to confuse people as to the true nature of evolutionary theory? Either way he no doubt wants* people to think that evolution involves things like a wallaby giving birth to a lobster.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 06:00 AM	#52
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by Locknar I suspect that Comfort is playing on the “man evolved from apes” misconception of evolution. I would like to take this opportunity to issue my own challenge to Comfort and/or Cameron; I’m offering $1.00 (that is ONE U.S. Dollar) for proof that creationism is a irrefutable explanation as to how the universe and mankind (let alone all living things) came into existence. This proof would have to be presented orally in a public forum by God, or Jesus to a pannel of my choosing (to be named once a date for this event has been provided by Comfort and/or Cameron and agreed upon by all parties); written “documentation” presented by a 3rd party will not be accepted. The belief that an all encompassing “being” would create the universe and all living things for us (ie. “mankind”) is the true fairytale being told here; and I’m willing to risk my own money (ONE U.S. Dollar) to back up my claim. On the other hand...I wonder if Comfort would accpet a Turducken as valid proof; slow roasted with pan gravy...not only does it seem to meet his definition of evolution but is also a tasty treat. Oh come on! What are the odds that a deity will show up and you'll have to pay the $1.00? I think you can afford to offer at least $5.00. Welcome BTW.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 06:19 AM	#53
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	In thinking about it some more I'm sure Comfort knows what he's doing. Unlike the JREF challenge, Comfort's challenge is rigged. He simply demands something ridiculous that evolutionary theory never predicts will happen and then tells people too ignorant to know how preposterous his demands are that "biologists can't prove evolution even for $10,000!". The preposterous nature of his demand is necessary for him to avoid paying up. If he legitimately asked for scientific evidence of a transitional form he'd loose his $10,000 in the first 60 seconds. The first person to show him ambulocetus, archaeopterix, osteolepis, hesperornis etc. (and that's just among vertebrate examples) would part him from his cash and make him look like a fool. But then he already looks like a fool to anyone who understands evolutionary theory. If, by making a fool of himself, he can convince other fools that he is a genius then he will have what he wants. Not that it all goes his way though. Those who are not, or are not yet, so indoctrinated by creationism that they are able to weigh the evidence will no doubt be unimpressed by the foolishness of Comfort's actions. He may be a hero to those who are already locked into their creationist beliefs, but I think he will only do damage to creationism in the long run.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 08:43 AM	#54
tsg Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Location: Location: Posts: 6,771	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote Is he really dense enough to believe this s***, or is he just deliberately trying to confuse people as to the true nature of evolutionary theory? I vote for a little of column A and a little of column B. Someone confused him about what evolutionary theory says and he's trying to spread the ignorance.
	__________________ Being offended by someone questioning your beliefs is a sign that you should be questioning them. In the beginning there was nothing. And the Lord said "Let There Be Light!" And still there was nothing, but at least now you could see it.

23rd May 2007, 09:30 AM	#55
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by tsg I vote for a little of column A and a little of column B. Someone confused him about what evolutionary theory says and he's trying to spread the ignorance. I keep thinking "Hasn't he debated enough people to have been told numerous times that what he represents as evolutionary theory has no resemblance to the real thing?". I get the sense that whenever someone says "No Ray, that isn't what the theory of evolution states. This is what it states:" that the explanation is cut off by Ray's fingers in his own ears and the sound of his own voice going "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA".
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 11:24 AM	#56
tsg Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Location: Location: Posts: 6,771	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote I keep thinking "Hasn't he debated enough people to have been told numerous times that what he represents as evolutionary theory has no resemblance to the real thing?". I get the sense that whenever someone says "No Ray, that isn't what the theory of evolution states. This is what it states:" that the explanation is cut off by Ray's fingers in his own ears and the sound of his own voice going "LALALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALA". It goes back to the blind faith thing: somebody I trust told me it is, therefore it is. I don't trust you, therefore it is not. Of course an evilutionist is going to lie about what evolution is. Why would my preist/parents lie to me? There's all kinds of rationalizations that go on when trying to defend one's faith.
	__________________ Being offended by someone questioning your beliefs is a sign that you should be questioning them. In the beginning there was nothing. And the Lord said "Let There Be Light!" And still there was nothing, but at least now you could see it.

23rd May 2007, 11:42 AM	#57
CynicalSkeptic Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: state of denial Posts: 1,360	Originally Posted by Questioninggeller Would a platypus win the "challenge"? No. Kirk mentioned it on the Nightline debate when he was showing his Crockaduck and BullFrog pictures. I can't remember what specifically he said about it, but I remember him saying that it didn't qualify.

23rd May 2007, 12:23 PM	#58
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Kirk said that once upon a time scientists believed that the platypus was a "transitional species," i.e. an impossible cross between a duck and a cat or something along those lines, but then scientists learned about genes and evolution and realized that the platypus is no such thing. Although that's not quite the way Kirk put it, as he thinks that evolution predicts a duckkat.
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23rd May 2007, 02:00 PM	#59
sbernie87 Student Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 30	Originally Posted by CynicalSkeptic No. Kirk mentioned it on the Nightline debate when he was showing his Crockaduck and BullFrog pictures. I can't remember what specifically he said about it, but I remember him saying that it didn't qualify. He said something like, "Yeah, the platypus is strange. But that is just the way god designed it," which seems to me would be the exact same thing he would say if there actually was a crocoduck... "Goddidit" can explain anything if you are to stupid to realize it doesn't explain anything.
sbernie87 Student Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 30

23rd May 2007, 04:47 PM	#60
porch Muse Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 521	Originally Posted by Questioninggeller Would a platypus win the "challenge"? AKA the Duckobeaver!
porch Muse Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 521

23rd May 2007, 06:18 PM	#61
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote In thinking about it some more I'm sure Comfort knows what he's doing. Unlike the JREF challenge, Comfort's challenge is rigged. He simply demands something ridiculous that evolutionary theory never predicts will happen and then tells people too ignorant to know how preposterous his demands are that "biologists can't prove evolution even for $10,000!". The preposterous nature of his demand is necessary for him to avoid paying up. If he legitimately asked for scientific evidence of a transitional form he'd loose his $10,000 in the first 60 seconds. The first person to show him ambulocetus, archaeopterix, osteolepis, hesperornis etc. (and that's just among vertebrate examples) would part him from his cash and make him look like a fool. But then he already looks like a fool to anyone who understands evolutionary theory. If, by making a fool of himself, he can convince other fools that he is a genius then he will have what he wants. Not that it all goes his way though. Those who are not, or are not yet, so indoctrinated by creationism that they are able to weigh the evidence will no doubt be unimpressed by the foolishness of Comfort's actions. He may be a hero to those who are already locked into their creationist beliefs, but I think he will only do damage to creationism in the long run. Didn't I just say this previously in this thread??
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

23rd May 2007, 06:27 PM	#62
Moon-Spinner Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Within a star too far to dream of Posts: 1,483	Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort: I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this... GOD2.JPG If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like!

23rd May 2007, 07:24 PM	#63
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,493	Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort: I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this... Attachment 7068 If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like! seems like full proof logic to me.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd May 2007, 07:26 PM	#64
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by Zep Didn't I just say this previously in this thread?? Doh! I hadn't read the entire first page. I humbly revise my previous post to "Pretty much what Zep said".
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 07:27 PM	#65
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by Moon-Spinner Okay, I have a counter offer for Ray Comfort: I'll give him five whole dollars if he can prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this... Attachment 7068 If he can't prove to me (to my complete satisfaction) that his God doesn't look like this, then I'll have to forever assume that this is what his God looks like! Is that Xenu?
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

23rd May 2007, 08:09 PM	#66
sk3ptical New Blood Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 22	So similar to the infamous Victor Zammit challenge in the sense that they are, as constructed, un-winnable. Have to wonder, on that basis, why Ray is only offering $10,000. He could offer any amount - no one is going to be able to claim it. Unless, maybe, there is a little voice in his head saying "I might be wrong"! One can hope there is a tiny bit of intelligence left.
sk3ptical New Blood Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 22

23rd May 2007, 08:13 PM	#67
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote Doh! I hadn't read the entire first page. I humbly revise my previous post to "Pretty much what Zep said". Great minds think alike! Fools seldom differ...
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

23rd May 2007, 08:16 PM	#68
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by Bob Klase Maybe we should try spreading that message. "Comfort offering $10k for specific evidence that the theory of evolution is wrong. No takers in sight." Oh that's excellent! Nicely put!
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

23rd May 2007, 08:38 PM	#69
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout Maybe this coelacanth will qualify? Ray may like that one in particular to attempt to show that humans and dinosaurs coexisted. I like the hagfish .
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

23rd May 2007, 09:32 PM	#70
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,353	I say Kirk's cop out on the Platypus is bogus. A transitional fossil is one that exhibits characteristics of two different taxa higher than species level. The the Platypus exhibits characteristics of Class Reptilia and Class Mammalia - exactly what we expect to see in transitionals. Of course Monotremes aren't transitionals between reptiles and mammals (they are mammals after all), that ancestral species existed 150 million years ago, but that doesn't change that Monotremes are living representatives of that ancestral species of transitionals.
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24th May 2007, 04:42 AM	#71
RenaissanceBiker Eats shoots and leaves. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 6,793	It looks like there is a woman in China who could take Ray's money. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...9968573613W520
	__________________ "Truth does not contradict truth." - St. Augustine "Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth." - RenaissanceBiker

24th May 2007, 05:27 AM	#72
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Originally Posted by sk3ptical So similar to the infamous Victor Zammit challenge in the sense that they are, as constructed, un-winnable. Have to wonder, on that basis, why Ray is only offering $10,000. He could offer any amount - no one is going to be able to claim it. Unless, maybe, there is a little voice in his head saying "I might be wrong"! One can hope there is a tiny bit of intelligence left. For the audience Ray wants to impress (I would like to re-emphasise), that's a lot of money.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

24th May 2007, 05:40 AM	#73
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,317	Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker It looks like there is a woman in China who could take Ray's money. http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?s...9968573613W520 I don't know, there's as story but no picture.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

24th May 2007, 06:14 AM	#74
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,386	Originally Posted by a_unique_person I don't know, there's as story but no picture. Yeah, until I see a confirming photo in the Weekly World News I'm inclined to be skeptical about winged cats.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

24th May 2007, 07:59 AM	#75
ChristineR Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,189	Everything you always wanted to know about winged cats: http://www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.htm The short version: Most wings are matted fur which results when the cat cannot clean itself properly, but there is also a genetic disorder which causes cats to have loose skin, which in some cases has contributed to the "wing" effect.
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