FREE TAPATALK APP

Pyrrho · 16th August 2003, 05:49 AM

Fascinating article. If true, it would appear that superstition is a big institution there. I wonder how popular it was before the war...but then, Iraq as a country has been under stress for a long, long time.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in568616.shtml

Lucianarchy · 16th August 2003, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pyrrho
Fascinating article. If true, it would appear that superstition is a big institution there.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in568616.shtml

Yes, just like every other country in the world.

Pyrrho · 16th August 2003, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lucianarchy
Yes, just like every other country in the world.

Yup. Frequently takes the form of extreme misogyny:

Quote:

Abbas Abdullah, 42, walks in to complain that after one-and-a-half years of marriage, his wife, Zeyneb Fadel, 31, doesn't like him anymore. Abdullah pushes her onto a chair and tells al-Duleimi to exorcise the genie - a Jew, of course - that is competing for her affection.

Al-Duleimi screams Quranic verses into Fadel's ear, converses with the genie inside and beats her with a rubber hose. Abdullah, clearly thrilled, yells at the genie inside his wife: “Get out or I'll pour boiling water over you!”

Zeyneb, her face swollen from tears and pain, confesses quietly to a journalist: “I don't like my husband.”

That's what superstition is all about. Control.

Lucianarchy · 16th August 2003, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Yup. Frequently takes the form of extreme misogyny:

That's what superstition is all about. Control.

Mysogyny comes from the culture, and thrives within male orientated society, it has nothing to do with 'superstition'. Mysogynists will use whatever is at their disposal to justify their actions.

International Capitalism "controls" far, *far* more than any superstition.

PinkRabbit · 16th August 2003, 11:12 AM

Scary stuff, but sadly predictable in a country where the marketplace of ideas has been so thoroughly bankrupt, and/or a black market for so many years. When there's no good information, the bad kind does seem to rush in to fill the vaccum.

Still, you've got to give them credit for coming up with an all purpose excuse for any mistakes in advance.

Quote:

“We use the genies or the angels,” the magician says. “But we prefer the angels, because the genies lie 75 percent of the time.”

Hmmm, I wonder if it'll give JE or SB any ideas? You know, "Hey, it's not my fault I got it wrong. The genies lie 75% of the time." That could almost explain JE's execrable performances on LKL. Probably the bright lights scare away the angels, so all he's got left to talk to are the genies ... and ... well ... they lie a lot.

Barb

tracer · 16th August 2003, 10:24 PM

If they were really practicing sorcery in Iraq, the Iraqi army could have sent out battallions of 5th-or-higher-level wizards against the invading U.S. troops. Do you have any idea how devastatingly effective a hundred simultaneously-cast fireball spells would be? I mean, each spell would have a blast radius of 20 feet and do at least 5d6 of damage (saving throw for half).

Hexxenhammer · 18th August 2003, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tracer
If they were really practicing sorcery in Iraq, the Iraqi army could have sent out battallions of 5th-or-higher-level wizards against the invading U.S. troops. Do you have any idea how devastatingly effective a hundred simultaneously-cast fireball spells would be? I mean, each spell would have a blast radius of 20 feet and do at least 5d6 of damage (saving throw for half).

Most soldiers would only be 1st or 2nd level fighters and not have a bonus to their Reflex saves. They'd be toast.

Although, a M-1 Abrahms has a longer range than a fireball...

tracer · 19th August 2003, 11:37 AM

You're right, a brigade of charging wizards is a silly idea. They'd all be mowed down by cluster bombs from the air or M-1 Abrams H.E.A.T. rounds at long range.

However, if you strategically positioned your wizards as snipers....

Hexxenhammer · 19th August 2003, 12:15 PM

Yes, a wizard (or better yet, a Sorcerer) would make an excellent sniper. Fireballs have no miss chance unlike a rocket propelled grenade. Or he could cast true strike on himself and fire away with a bolt action rifle and be a crack shot even at long range.

Yes, we're geeks! Get over it!

EdipisReks · 19th August 2003, 01:21 PM

be better to just get a really powerful wizard to cast Improved Wish and just get rid of the invading army in one fell stroke.

Aoidoi · 19th August 2003, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdipisReks
be better to just get a really powerful wizard to cast Improved Wish and just get rid of the invading army in one fell stroke.

Have to be careful on the wording, your wish might be fulfilled by a nuclear barrage annihilating both the occupying army and your entire country.

(depends on how evil the DM (GM?) is, I suppose.

)

Hexxenhammer · 19th August 2003, 02:12 PM

I take it back about a wizard being a good sniper. Have a cleric animate a zombie, and have him be a sniper. Why? No heartbeat or breathing to mess up his aim.

tracer · 19th August 2003, 02:51 PM

Yeah, but zombies only have 1 hit die. And as everybody knows, how much damage you can absorb before being killed determines how accurate you are with a weapon.

EdipisReks · 19th August 2003, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aoidoi
Have to be careful on the wording, your wish might be fulfilled by a nuclear barrage annihilating both the occupying army and your entire country.

(depends on how evil the DM (GM?) is, I suppose. )

this problem is easily solved by making the wish as long as is necessary to cover all the little possible issues. 10,000 pages would be a good start.

tracer · 19th August 2003, 05:48 PM

And don't forget to wish not to be aged 5 years or lose experience points or need 2d8 days of bed rest. Those can be a killer.

SquishyDave · 19th August 2003, 10:49 PM

All you would need is Improved Invisibility. You could plant bombs, and get passwords, for starters. You would always know what the US was up to, and could kill whoever you needed to.

Better yet, cast it on a ranger or an army of rangers, no one will hear them coming, they could sabotage tanks, cars, weapons.

Apart from that area spells would be best, lets see the US army deal with Mass Blindness and Deafness, or Sunburst.

Hell, Time Stop, properly applied, would be all you need.

Hexxenhammer · 20th August 2003, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tracer
Yeah, but zombies only have 1 hit die. And as everybody knows, how much damage you can absorb before being killed determines how accurate you are with a weapon.

Well, they have 2 hit dice. But I'd rather take a good, high level sniper, kill him, and use the zombie template on him, for a high level zombie. The Iraqi army could have made bazillions of zombies and skeletons with a few 5th level clerics. And you wouldn't have to worry about them deserting.

I wonder if improved invisibility works against thermal imaging?

tracer · 20th August 2003, 11:10 AM

Since there's no such thing as thermal imaging in 3rd Edition, we don't really know if improved invisibility would work against it or not.

However, if you're willing to go back to the old 1st or 2nd Edition rules, there was such a thing as infravision. What did the 1st and 2nd Edition rules have to say about Infravision's ability (or lack thereof) to see invisible creatures?

Hexxenhammer · 20th August 2003, 01:24 PM

Invisibility fooled infravision and ultravision. True Seeing was required to see invisible creatures still.

I made a d20 Shadowrun conversion right after 3rd edition came out. I had a rule that 3rd level and lower illusions (like regular invisibility) did not fool technology. 4th level and higher did. Arbitrary, but fair I thought.

tracer · 20th August 2003, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
True Seeing was required to see invisible creatures still.

If all you wanted to do was see invisible creatures, the 6th-level true seeing spell was overkill.

All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.)

Hexxenhammer · 20th August 2003, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tracer

If all you wanted to do was see invisible creatures, the 6th-level true seeing spell was overkill.

All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.)

Stop raining on my rules-lawyering!

Ossai · 21st August 2003, 09:43 AM

tracer

Quote:

All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.)

Actually see invisible is only 2nd level. There is a cleric spell called invisibility purge that removes all invisibility within an area or you could have the wizard 5th or sorcerer 6th (sorcerer's don’t' get 3rd level spells until 6th level) meta-magic glitter dust over an area to find all the invisible creatures.
NOTE: I know glitter dust is already and area spell but it covers a very small area and you would want to enhance the spell to increase the area covered.

Or combine the ideas and have the arcane caster use invisibility 10' radius, the cleric cast create water to make an area muddy and then when the troops and vehicles go through the arcane cast transmute mud to stone.

Ossai

tracer · 21st August 2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ossai
Actually see invisible is only 2nd level. There is a cleric spell called invisibility purge that removes all invisibility within an area or you could have the wizard 5th or sorcerer 6th (sorcerer's don’t' get 3rd level spells until 6th level) meta-magic glitter dust over an area to find all the invisible creatures.
NOTE: I know glitter dust is already and area spell but it covers a very small area and you would want to enhance the spell to increase the area covered.

Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules!

Why, when I was your age, we didn't have sorcerers or see invisible spells. We had to put up with rulebooks claiming to have been authored by Gary Gygax, with 100 gradiations of Strength between Strength 18 and Strength 19, and negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class. And weeeeeeeeee liked it!*

*) We especially liked the part where fireball and lightning bolt spells had no upper limit on the number of damage dice they did -- a 35th-level magic-user would cast 35d6 fireballs. Ah, those were the days!

Hexxenhammer · 21st August 2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tracer

Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules!

Why, when I was your age, we didn't have sorcerers or see invisible spells. We had to put up with rulebooks claiming to have been authored by Gary Gygax, with 100 gradiations of Strength between Strength 18 and Strength 19, and negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class. And weeeeeeeeee liked it!*

*) We especially liked the part where fireball and lightning bolt spells had no upper limit on the number of damage dice they did -- a 35th-level magic-user would cast 35d6 fireballs. Ah, those were the days!

Some of us old-timers made the switch you know. Gotta keep up with the times. I started on 1st edition in nigh on Nineteen Tickity-five. Had to say "Tickity" because Qadafi had stolen the word "Eighty". What was I saying? Oh yes. In my day you had to play D&D with an onion on your belt, as was the style of the time...

Ossai · 21st August 2003, 12:36 PM

Tracer

Quote:

Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules!

Hey, I started off with the Red Boxed set that carried characters to 3rd level. I still like AD&D 1st edition where magic missile was basically a machine gun effect at high levels.

Quote:

negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class.

WE didn't need no stinkin chart! WE had THACO memorized for our characters.

Hexxenhammer
I remember well the days of the holy 'belt onion.'

Ossai

tracer · 21st August 2003, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ossai
WE didn't need no stinkin chart! WE had THACO memorized for our characters.

But back in the 1st Edition days, THAC0 wasn't enough! Remember what happened when your to-hit chart reached "20"?

EdipisReks · 21st August 2003, 08:34 PM

i used to play without rules, because books were so expensive and made with papyrus. now those were the days: going down the street, pretending people were orcs and chopping their heads off with your khopesh!

16th August 2003, 05:49 AM	#1
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678	Sorcery in Iraq Fascinating article. If true, it would appear that superstition is a big institution there. I wonder how popular it was before the war...but then, Iraq as a country has been under stress for a long, long time. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in568616.shtml
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678

16th August 2003, 06:30 AM	#2
Lucianarchy Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,158	Re: Sorcery in Iraq Quote: Originally posted by Pyrrho Fascinating article. If true, it would appear that superstition is a big institution there. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in568616.shtml Yes, just like every other country in the world.
Lucianarchy Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,158

16th August 2003, 06:35 AM	#3
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678	Re: Re: Sorcery in Iraq Quote: Originally posted by Lucianarchy Yes, just like every other country in the world. Yup. Frequently takes the form of extreme misogyny: Quote: Abbas Abdullah, 42, walks in to complain that after one-and-a-half years of marriage, his wife, Zeyneb Fadel, 31, doesn't like him anymore. Abdullah pushes her onto a chair and tells al-Duleimi to exorcise the genie - a Jew, of course - that is competing for her affection. Al-Duleimi screams Quranic verses into Fadel's ear, converses with the genie inside and beats her with a rubber hose. Abdullah, clearly thrilled, yells at the genie inside his wife: “Get out or I'll pour boiling water over you!” Zeyneb, her face swollen from tears and pain, confesses quietly to a journalist: “I don't like my husband.” That's what superstition is all about. Control.
Pyrrho Man in Black Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 3,678

16th August 2003, 06:51 AM	#4
Lucianarchy Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,158	Re: Re: Re: Sorcery in Iraq Quote: Originally posted by Pyrrho Yup. Frequently takes the form of extreme misogyny: That's what superstition is all about. Control. Mysogyny comes from the culture, and thrives within male orientated society, it has nothing to do with 'superstition'. Mysogynists will use whatever is at their disposal to justify their actions. International Capitalism "controls" far, far more than any superstition.
Lucianarchy Banned Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,158

16th August 2003, 10:24 PM	#6
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	If they were really practicing sorcery in Iraq, the Iraqi army could have sent out battallions of 5th-or-higher-level wizards against the invading U.S. troops. Do you have any idea how devastatingly effective a hundred simultaneously-cast fireball spells would be? I mean, each spell would have a blast radius of 20 feet and do at least 5d6 of damage (saving throw for half).
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

16th August 2003, 11:12 AM	#5
PinkRabbit Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 329	Scary stuff, but sadly predictable in a country where the marketplace of ideas has been so thoroughly bankrupt, and/or a black market for so many years. When there's no good information, the bad kind does seem to rush in to fill the vaccum. Still, you've got to give them credit for coming up with an all purpose excuse for any mistakes in advance. Quote: “We use the genies or the angels,” the magician says. “But we prefer the angels, because the genies lie 75 percent of the time.” Hmmm, I wonder if it'll give JE or SB any ideas? You know, "Hey, it's not my fault I got it wrong. The genies lie 75% of the time." That could almost explain JE's execrable performances on LKL. Probably the bright lights scare away the angels, so all he's got left to talk to are the genies ... and ... well ... they lie a lot. Barb

18th August 2003, 09:30 AM	#7
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by tracer If they were really practicing sorcery in Iraq, the Iraqi army could have sent out battallions of 5th-or-higher-level wizards against the invading U.S. troops. Do you have any idea how devastatingly effective a hundred simultaneously-cast fireball spells would be? I mean, each spell would have a blast radius of 20 feet and do at least 5d6 of damage (saving throw for half). Most soldiers would only be 1st or 2nd level fighters and not have a bonus to their Reflex saves. They'd be toast. Although, a M-1 Abrahms has a longer range than a fireball...
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

19th August 2003, 11:37 AM	#8
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	You're right, a brigade of charging wizards is a silly idea. They'd all be mowed down by cluster bombs from the air or M-1 Abrams H.E.A.T. rounds at long range. However, if you strategically positioned your wizards as snipers....
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

19th August 2003, 12:15 PM	#9
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Yes, a wizard (or better yet, a Sorcerer) would make an excellent sniper. Fireballs have no miss chance unlike a rocket propelled grenade. Or he could cast true strike on himself and fire away with a bolt action rifle and be a crack shot even at long range. Yes, we're geeks! Get over it!
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

19th August 2003, 01:21 PM	#10
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	be better to just get a really powerful wizard to cast Improved Wish and just get rid of the invading army in one fell stroke.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

19th August 2003, 02:08 PM	#11
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,422	Quote: Originally posted by EdipisReks be better to just get a really powerful wizard to cast Improved Wish and just get rid of the invading army in one fell stroke. Have to be careful on the wording, your wish might be fulfilled by a nuclear barrage annihilating both the occupying army and your entire country. (depends on how evil the DM (GM?) is, I suppose. )
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,422	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

19th August 2003, 02:12 PM	#12
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	I take it back about a wizard being a good sniper. Have a cleric animate a zombie, and have him be a sniper. Why? No heartbeat or breathing to mess up his aim.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

19th August 2003, 02:51 PM	#13
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	Yeah, but zombies only have 1 hit die. And as everybody knows, how much damage you can absorb before being killed determines how accurate you are with a weapon.
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

19th August 2003, 04:03 PM	#14
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	Quote: Originally posted by Aoidoi Have to be careful on the wording, your wish might be fulfilled by a nuclear barrage annihilating both the occupying army and your entire country. (depends on how evil the DM (GM?) is, I suppose. ) this problem is easily solved by making the wish as long as is necessary to cover all the little possible issues. 10,000 pages would be a good start.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

19th August 2003, 05:48 PM	#15
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	And don't forget to wish not to be aged 5 years or lose experience points or need 2d8 days of bed rest. Those can be a killer.
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

19th August 2003, 10:49 PM	#16
SquishyDave Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canberra Posts: 1,644	All you would need is Improved Invisibility. You could plant bombs, and get passwords, for starters. You would always know what the US was up to, and could kill whoever you needed to. Better yet, cast it on a ranger or an army of rangers, no one will hear them coming, they could sabotage tanks, cars, weapons. Apart from that area spells would be best, lets see the US army deal with Mass Blindness and Deafness, or Sunburst. Hell, Time Stop, properly applied, would be all you need.
	__________________ Squishy doesn't irritate the hell out of me. - Quester_X

20th August 2003, 05:56 AM	#17
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by tracer Yeah, but zombies only have 1 hit die. And as everybody knows, how much damage you can absorb before being killed determines how accurate you are with a weapon. Well, they have 2 hit dice. But I'd rather take a good, high level sniper, kill him, and use the zombie template on him, for a high level zombie. The Iraqi army could have made bazillions of zombies and skeletons with a few 5th level clerics. And you wouldn't have to worry about them deserting. I wonder if improved invisibility works against thermal imaging?
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

20th August 2003, 11:10 AM	#18
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	Since there's no such thing as thermal imaging in 3rd Edition, we don't really know if improved invisibility would work against it or not. However, if you're willing to go back to the old 1st or 2nd Edition rules, there was such a thing as infravision. What did the 1st and 2nd Edition rules have to say about Infravision's ability (or lack thereof) to see invisible creatures?
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

20th August 2003, 01:24 PM	#19
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Invisibility fooled infravision and ultravision. True Seeing was required to see invisible creatures still. I made a d20 Shadowrun conversion right after 3rd edition came out. I had a rule that 3rd level and lower illusions (like regular invisibility) did not fool technology. 4th level and higher did. Arbitrary, but fair I thought.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

20th August 2003, 05:55 PM	#20
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	Quote: Originally posted by Hexxenhammer True Seeing was required to see invisible creatures still. If all you wanted to do was see invisible creatures, the 6th-level true seeing spell was overkill. All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.)
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

20th August 2003, 08:28 PM	#21
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by tracer If all you wanted to do was see invisible creatures, the 6th-level true seeing spell was overkill. All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.) Stop raining on my rules-lawyering!
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

21st August 2003, 09:43 AM	#22
Ossai Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,459	tracer Quote: All you needed was a plain old 3rd-level detect invisibilty spell. The only kind of invisibility that detect invisibilty couldn't see through was dust of disappearance. (I'm not sure about the invisibility conferred by etherealness, though.) Actually see invisible is only 2nd level. There is a cleric spell called invisibility purge that removes all invisibility within an area or you could have the wizard 5th or sorcerer 6th (sorcerer's don’t' get 3rd level spells until 6th level) meta-magic glitter dust over an area to find all the invisible creatures. NOTE: I know glitter dust is already and area spell but it covers a very small area and you would want to enhance the spell to increase the area covered. Or combine the ideas and have the arcane caster use invisibility 10' radius, the cleric cast create water to make an area muddy and then when the troops and vehicles go through the arcane cast transmute mud to stone. Ossai
Ossai Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,459	__________________ The other moral to be drawn from the story [of Job] is that if you lead a good virtuous life, God will urge Satan to kill your family for a bet. Perhaps you should try to sin a little now and then, just to keep your children safe. - Dr Adequate www.stopsylvia.com

21st August 2003, 10:47 AM	#23
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	Quote: Originally posted by Ossai Actually see invisible is only 2nd level. There is a cleric spell called invisibility purge that removes all invisibility within an area or you could have the wizard 5th or sorcerer 6th (sorcerer's don’t' get 3rd level spells until 6th level) meta-magic glitter dust over an area to find all the invisible creatures. NOTE: I know glitter dust is already and area spell but it covers a very small area and you would want to enhance the spell to increase the area covered. Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules! Why, when I was your age, we didn't have sorcerers or see invisible spells. We had to put up with rulebooks claiming to have been authored by Gary Gygax, with 100 gradiations of Strength between Strength 18 and Strength 19, and negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class. And weeeeeeeeee liked it!* ) We especially liked the part where fireball* and lightning bolt spells had no upper limit on the number of damage dice they did -- a 35th-level magic-user would cast 35d6 fireballs. Ah, those were the days!
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

21st August 2003, 11:52 AM	#24
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	Quote: Originally posted by tracer Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules! Why, when I was your age, we didn't have sorcerers or see invisible spells. We had to put up with rulebooks claiming to have been authored by Gary Gygax, with 100 gradiations of Strength between Strength 18 and Strength 19, and negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class. And weeeeeeeeee liked it!* ) We especially liked the part where fireball* and lightning bolt spells had no upper limit on the number of damage dice they did -- a 35th-level magic-user would cast 35d6 fireballs. Ah, those were the days! Some of us old-timers made the switch you know. Gotta keep up with the times. I started on 1st edition in nigh on Nineteen Tickity-five. Had to say "Tickity" because Qadafi had stolen the word "Eighty". What was I saying? Oh yes. In my day you had to play D&D with an onion on your belt, as was the style of the time...
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

21st August 2003, 12:36 PM	#25
Ossai Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,459	Tracer Quote: Bah, you crazy kids and your fancy-schmancy newfangled 3rd and 3.5th Edition rules! Hey, I started off with the Red Boxed set that carried characters to 3rd level. I still like AD&D 1st edition where magic missile was basically a machine gun effect at high levels. Quote: negative armor classes, and to-hit charts (charts!) for each different kind of character class. WE didn't need no stinkin chart! WE had THACO memorized for our characters. Hexxenhammer I remember well the days of the holy 'belt onion.' Ossai
Ossai Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,459	__________________ The other moral to be drawn from the story [of Job] is that if you lead a good virtuous life, God will urge Satan to kill your family for a bet. Perhaps you should try to sin a little now and then, just to keep your children safe. - Dr Adequate www.stopsylvia.com

21st August 2003, 07:04 PM	#26
tracer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, Calif. Posts: 1,356	Quote: Originally posted by Ossai WE didn't need no stinkin chart! WE had THACO memorized for our characters. But back in the 1st Edition days, THAC0 wasn't enough! Remember what happened when your to-hit chart reached "20"?
	__________________ The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.

21st August 2003, 08:34 PM	#27
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	i used to play without rules, because books were so expensive and made with papyrus. now those were the days: going down the street, pretending people were orcs and chopping their heads off with your khopesh!
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)