Gaydar

[ChristineR]

I'm starting this to end the non-relevant gaydar conversation on this thread.

[Miss Whiplash]

Ok.

I think it's an eye contact/body language thing, though. Once I thought some chic was flirting with me but she wasn't. That was a long time ago, though..

[ChristineR]

So far as I can tell, most gay men take the existence of gaydar for granted. Certainly there are many explicit signs (green carnations, bandannas, a long pinkie fingernail) that have come and gone over the years.

Does anyone claim it to be supernatural?

[Z]

Not supernatural, but completely natural. I've had many gay, lesbian, and bisexual friends, and most of them could accurately recognize signs of other GBLT people. The term 'gaydar' originated in the gay community. Straights, apparently, lack gaydar, with the exception of a few women, who have a weakened form of gaydar; specifically, single women have a sense that any man who's perfect is either married or gay.

For anyone to take offense at the term 'gaydar' is just infantile and moronic.

[tkingdoll]

Gaydar is a nonsense in that you only know if you are right when the person is confirmed as gay.

Up until that point it's a hunch. After that point it's a confirmed hunch. Big deal.

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Gaydar is a nonsense in that you only know if you are right when the person is confirmed as gay.

Up until that point it's a hunch. After that point it's a confirmed hunch. Big deal.

I have a hunch you don't wear a mullet or know the international lesbian sign...Then I have a hunch you are not gay.

Normally when a babe just sits in my lap or corners me in the bathroom, I take it as more than a hunch.

[SezMe]

I thought a mullet was a fish...but dictionary.com helped out with that one. Now, after I learn what the international lesbian sign is, it'll be ok of me to go outside.

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by SezMe

I thought a mullet was a fish...but dictionary.com helped out with that one. Now, after I learn what the international lesbian sign is, it'll be ok of me to go outside.

I would tell you, but, if you're a man, I'd get kicked out of the sisterhood. We have so many secrets...

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

Normally when a babe just sits in my lap or corners me in the bathroom, I take it as more than a hunch.

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

[zombiebex]

You know, I seem to remember reading an article where people were able to recognize whether or not a person was gay solely by their body language... Let me see if I can find it...

[Gregory]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

I don't quite get where you're going with this? If one group of people can succesfully identify a gay man by watching him, say, 90% of the time, and the rest of the population can only do it, say, 10% of the time, then there is a quantifiable differense between them, and writing it off with "It's still just a hunch" seems sort of disingenuous.

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by tkingdoll

Then it's a confirmed hunch. But you can only make an educated guess about someone's sexuality until they confirm it one way or another.

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by zombiebex

You know, I seem to remember reading an article where people were able to recognize whether or not a person was gay solely by their body language... Let me see if I can find it...

60 Minutes on CBS had something about this awhile ago, Leslie Stahl did the story.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.

She can't tell or they'd kick her out of the heterohood. Too many secrets...

[zombiebex]

Aha, thanks! 60 Minutes was the missing term in my Google search.

Here's the report:
http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/6...nt_offset=1491

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

She can't tell or they'd kick her out of the heterohood. Too many secrets...

And banned from isle 23 forever.

[ConspiRaider]

I don't know if this was "gaydar" gone wrong or just plain aggressive action or what...

I was in a theatre company in Hollywood, but hadn't been active for awhile. Still, I went to see one of their productions about halfway through the run of the show.

The director of the company then asked if I'd mind crewing the rest of the run and I agreed.

I'm single at the time, and there are 8 actors in the play. 7 women, one guy. So I'm figuring ... hmm ... maybe I'll click with one of the women. The show ends that first night that I crew and I'm backstage yakking it up with everyone afterwards. Well, somebody tweaked my left nipple pretty hard, I turn to look ... and of course it's the guy. My luck!

Never did get anything going with a woman from that show, and of course the guy didn't get lucky with me either. So what was that? Was his gaydar out of alignment? Just aggression? Maybe I was gay in a previous life and that was leaking through or something? I dunno...

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

I don't know if this was "gaydar" gone wrong or just plain aggressive action or what...

I was in a theatre company in Hollywood, but hadn't been active for awhile. Still, I went to see one of their productions about halfway through the run of the show.

The director of the company then asked if I'd mind crewing the rest of the run and I agreed.

I'm single at the time, and there are 8 actors in the play. 7 women, one guy. So I'm figuring ... hmm ... maybe I'll click with one of the women. The show ends that first night that I crew and I'm backstage yakking it up with everyone afterwards. Well, somebody tweaked my left nipple pretty hard, I turn to look ... and of course it's the guy. My luck!

Never did get anything going with a woman from that show, and of course the guy didn't get lucky with me either. So what was that? Was his gaydar out of alignment? Just aggression? Maybe I was gay in a previous life and that was leaking through or something? I dunno...

I dunno either. I'd wager aggressive action. Is there "het-dar" though? How do straights know each other? Most men assume I'm straight. Many get tweeky and wind up with a drink in their lap - or worse.

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

I dunno either. I'd wager aggressive action. Is there "het-dar" though? How do straights know each other? Most men assume I'm straight. Many get tweeky and wind up with a drink in their lap - or worse.

Edit: Always look for visual cues. Notice what people are wearing. Nine times out of ten, if a woman is wearing Brikenstocks, and certain clothing, it gives them away. I knew Ellen DeGeneres was gay the first time I saw her on Johnny Carson. Dockers, Hushpuppies or sneakers? Sistahhhhh!

Men are typically good at reading men, less good at reading women, has been my experience. I think we reach this low level of women-reading and never progress much above that. I mean in peripheral situations, not in long-term relationships.

Men reading men is a complex operation, constant and ongoing. Typically, straight men focus almost exclusively on the eyes of other men. You're reading eyes, trying to pick up a whole pallet of information. If you notice a guy checking you out up and down - looking at your body? I suppose that could be a tell. I've gotten that - and it feels somehow intrusive. Interesting to me, because then I can step behind the forehead of a woman and try to guage how she feels when we straight guys give her the once over - a body scan. But when I sense a guy is body-scanning me - it's a bit unnerving. With guys - it's eyes, eyes, eyes. I'm certain we're picking up basic body language outside of that, but we zero in on the eyes.

Certainly for me it would be difficult to guage whether or not a woman was a lesbian, in a brief contact. And maybe even a longer contact. Women are, in a number of ways, mysterious to men and not tremendously readable. So - before you dump that drinky-pooh into the lap of a guy putting the make on ya - it's very possible he cannot read you are only into women. There's more to it, obviously. He might think you're just saying that to turn him aside. There's the ego thing involved. There's the fact that men are somewhat afflicted with the responsibility of initiating the chase. Which can be scary, frustrating, whatever. And there's... Tim. Short for Timminy, I think. I was at their wedding, she hooked up with my Navy buddy. Tim loved to tell how much she couldn't stand him when they first met, and even several meetings afterwards. But he was persistent, he won her over, they're still happily married. I guess today? That'd be called stalking, he'd possibly be cooling his heels in some state-run institution...

[Whiplash]

Not to be a horrible, mean skeptic but I'd love to see a real study about this. Testing people's ability to detect someone who is gay or not based on any number of stimuli. Are people fooling themselves? Not noticing the times they were wrong? All the same questions as for those who think they spin pinwheels with their minds.

I am being somewhat facetious, honestly, don't bite my head off

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by Whiplash

Not to be a horrible, mean skeptic but I'd love to see a real study about this. Testing people's ability to detect someone who is gay or not based on any number of stimuli. Are people fooling themselves? Not noticing the times they were wrong? All the same questions as for those who think they spin pinwheels with their minds.

I am being somewhat facetious, honestly, don't bite my head off

It's a light hearted thread!

Will someone please tell Bishop Manchester to leave me alone. I'm not interested. I bat for the other team. His attention is embarrassing and makes me feel icky.

[TX50]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

.

Men reading men is a complex operation, constant and ongoing. Typically, straight men focus almost exclusively on the eyes of other men.

You're speaking for yourself there of course. There are situations
where "focussing on the eyes of other men" will get you your ass
kicked (and not in a way you'd like).

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

It's a light hearted thread!

Will someone please tell Bishop Manchester to leave me alone. I'm not interested. I bat for the other team. His attention is embarrassing and makes me feel icky.

Bishop, hear some confessions and take a vacation to Rome or something. Visit the catacombs. Start a new church. Convert some "heathens".

Vamp, it may be that avatar. I'm assuming it's not you, seems like an actress's picture. Maybe Gene Tierney, or Janet Leigh? Tough call. But it is fetching, an attention getter (don't worry, expect exactly zero emails or PMs from me).

Other interesting thing was E Chu ta in your sig. Only thing I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, some robot said that to C3PO...

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by TX50

You're speaking for yourself there of course. There are situations
where "focussing on the eyes of other men" will get you your ass
kicked (and not in a way you'd like).

Oh of course. I don't mean constantly, anyway. I've found that if you're NOT looking at a guy's eyes, then you're also not looking at other parts of him. You're looking elsewhere.

On the other hand I've tended to find that women have no problem looking at a guy from head to toe, and I absolutely don't mean she's trying to come onto him. It does not appear to be intrusive in either direction.

If someone is going to notice that your socks don't match, I'd bet on the woman picking that up every time before the guy.

[Miss Whiplash]

Originally Posted by ConspiRaider

Bishop, hear some confessions and take a vacation to Rome or something. Visit the catacombs. Start a new church. Convert some "heathens".

Vamp, it may be that avatar. I'm assuming it's not you, seems like an actress's picture. Maybe Gene Tierney, or Janet Leigh? Tough call. But it is fetching, an attention getter (don't worry, expect exactly zero emails or PMs from me).

Other interesting thing was E Chu ta in your sig. Only thing I can think of is Empire Strikes Back, some robot said that to C3PO...

The avatar is Jean Seberg. He's seen my pic on Myspace, though. Maybe it's the leather coat or a stern schoolmistress fetish.

Yes, the phrase is from The Empire Strikes Back. Good catch!

[Tricky]

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.

[Hokulele]

Equally bad here. I have two close relatives who are gay/lesbian, and in both cases I had no idea, until other relatives drew me aside to clue me in. Heck, my "strai-dar" is almost as bad. I generally can't tell the difference when someone is being friendly, flirtatious, or trying to get me to leave them the hell alone.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

The avatar is Jean Seberg. He's seen my pic on Myspace, though. Maybe it's the leather coat or a stern schoolmistress fetish.

Yes, the phrase is from The Empire Strikes Back. Good catch!

Of course it's Jean Seberg I did some kind of a name cross-up with Gene Tierney.

I saw your Myspace pic and immediate impression was: Funny. There's this subtle humorous twinkle just barely perceptible in your eyes. That's my quick read, FWIW.

E Chu Ta!

How rude!

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by Hokulele

Equally bad here. I have two close relatives who are gay/lesbian, and in both cases I had no idea, until other relatives drew me aside to clue me in. Heck, my "strai-dar" is almost as bad. I generally can't tell the difference when someone is being friendly, flirtatious, or trying to get me to leave them the hell alone.

That's funny, Hokulele

Reminds me of when my first wife and I came over to Mom and Pop's for family dinner. My uncle was there, first time she met him.

When we got home later that night, she said: Your uncle's gay. "WHAT?" Trust me, he's gay.

She was right, we found out later. But not one of us kids saw it because we were so familiar with him.

[ConspiRaider]

Originally Posted by Tricky

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by Tricky

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate.

Sorry, I've heard from a somewhat dicey source that you wife is even worse than you.

[Blue Mountain]

I wouldn't be surprised if the "gaydar" effect turns out to be confirmation bias. On the other hand, I've heard speculation the phenomenon may be pheromone based.
All I know is mine's totally unreliable, returning lots of false positives and false negatives. The false negatives are annoying ... I once missed an opportunity to get a boyfriend because I couldn't discern that he was gay. It was only when he got a boyfriend that I had confirmation.

On the other hand, false positives can be at best embarrasing and at worst physically dangerous.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

My best friend is a gay man and, if I can speak for him, I don't think he would take offense at the idea that gays express themselves differently for a second.

God knows he'd laugh at someone who having spent time with him wouldn't realize that he's gay.

Which isn't to say that every gay person acts like that or even most. My gaydar wouldn't have picked up on Reverend Ted Haggard in a million years so it's nothing inherent in homosexuality. It's behavior you pick up from your culture.

[SomeGuy]

For some reason I seem to get picked up by other men's gaydars quite frequently, I also seem to be able to pick up if someone is gay a bit earlier than most, men sooner than women though.

My wife sometimes jokes that I am a straight man captured in a gay body.

It's never bothered me that I got hit on by men, if there was ever any problem with getting hit on it was that not enough women were doing it. I've never understood people panicking when they get hit on by a guy, for me it's exactly equal to being hit on by a girl I have no interest in, flattering but that's it. Especially now that I am in a monogamous relationship the difference between getting hit on by a man and getting hit on by a woman is completely gone.

I also believe that it's easier to pick up if someone is gay when you have neither negative nor positive connotations associated with it. For me homosexuality is about as neutral a trait as the color of someone's hair.

[Redtail]

Oh the stories I could tell about gaydar. Actually I've been told I'm an anomaly because I'm straight and I have a fairly good gaydar. Granted it's conked out on me at the worst possible times, which led me to grow donkey ears but there ya go.

BTW Vampire, How're things in NC? I miss it terribly.

[Tbone]

Originally Posted by Tricky

Can I start the competition for the world's worst gaydar? I submit myself as a prime candidate. I actually went out on four dates (at least I thought they were dates) with a girl before she finally had to take me aside and say, "Stop trying to kiss me, dammit. I like girls."

I'm no better with guys either. Paul was just a really good friend, I thought, until he suddenly kissed me on the lips at a New Year's Eve party. I'd like to think I didn't freak out, but he immediately apologized. For the record, we're still friends, but not "that kind" of friends. I'm happily married to a woman who has even worse gaydar than me. She tells me of the time when she "really thought it was just a pajama party for twenty-five-year-old women."

Let's hear it for the blissfully naive.

I'm going to go out a limb and say I have to you beat. My uncle is gay, and despite blatantly obvious mannerisms, I really didn't connect any dots; a) never had or talked a girlfriend in the many years I've known him well b) used to be in charge of floral arrangements at weddings and other services c) continually (read: carefully and neutrally) told stories about male friends and roommates.

But the real kicker is his website, which I had known about and seen many times before realizing. It is one of the most blatantly gay things (and I, of course, mean that stereotypically, not insultingly, if that's possible) I have ever seen. Unfortunately, I can't link it, as the cartoons contained therein may or may not break rules.... Said cartoons are also a dead giveaway, as well. Perhaps a moderator could approve it. Anyways, it is perhaps not as... active a story as the above, but it had me slapping my forehead afterward.

I'd like to think I'm not naive, so I'm either gaydar-jammed or stupid.

On the other hand, my uncle seems to have a very finely tuned gaydar (or bidar, in this case). He picked up (so he says) me some time ago, and I'm one of the most unassuming persons one can meet, or so everyone tells me, even him.

And for the "gay is genetic" crowd, I'm afraid my uncle is adopted, sorry . No proof here.

[tkingdoll]

Originally Posted by The Vampire

So, does this apply to you and men? Can you tell who is het and who is not or is it still a hunch?

Teek, I think you are missing something here. If you meet me in a lesbian bar 95% of the time I can tell who is straight, who is power dyke and who is bi-curious. You will miss the most in the spot the dyke contest unless it's a 300 lb truck driver in a flannel shirt.

Tell me how I know and why you miss.

No, you are missing my point. You can point at people who ping your gaydar all day but you don't know if they are gay or not until they confirm it by some means.

Or are you saying you know for a fact that someone is gay without them ever confirming it? Because you can probably get Randi's million for that.

You can't use 'lesbian bar' as a sensible example of where gaydar works. Try 'the average office' instead. Or 'the supermarket'.

There are many subtle signals people pick up on to decide if someone is or isn't gay, but none of those signals make a fact. It's not until the person says "yes I'm gay" or snogs a member of the same sex in front of that you know if you are right or not. Up until that point, all you have is a hunch, not a fact.

Someone rating high on your gaydar doesn't mean they are gay. It just means you think they are.

Incidentally, I have spent a lot of time in gay bars and it's very easy to pick out the three types you mention. Clothing, confidence, behaviour, attitude, interaction, are all easy to read for many people. But that's what a hunch is - an educated guess, in this case based on clues. But you can point and say 'definitely dyke' til you're blue in the face, it means nothing unless that woman confirms it.

[Soapy Sam]

I have no idea how to tell someone's sexual orientation. I presume I never learned because I was never that interested, just as I can't identify car models , because I never bothered to pay attention. If people need me to know, they'll tell me. I'm 52. It never happened to me yet- or if it did, I failed to notice. (Or I've forgotten, which also happens more in your fifties).

I don't think "gaydar" is anything other than paying attention. Some folk can spot a lesser spotted woodpecker in a tree at fifty yards, because they pay attention to birds. Presumably the same goes for spotting classes of people, whether behavioural, gender , economic or whatever.

[TobiasTheViking]

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

I have no idea how to tell someone's sexual orientation. I presume I never learned because I was never that interested, just as I can't identify car models , because I never bothered to pay attention. If people need me to know, they'll tell me. I'm 52. It never happened to me yet- or if it did, I failed to notice. (Or I've forgotten, which also happens more in your fifties).

I don't think "gaydar" is anything other than paying attention. Some folk can spot a lesser spotted woodpecker in a tree at fifty yards, because they pay attention to birds. Presumably the same goes for spotting classes of people, whether behavioural, gender , economic or whatever.

so.. wait.. you WEREN'T hitting on me thursday morning at TAM before anyone else arrived for breakfest...


typical...

[calebprime]

If I immediately like a woman, she's a lesbian.

If a man seems friendly, and he's not trying to sell me something, then he's gay.

A psychiatrist (who had perfect SAT scores) once told me in all seriousness that all men with effeminate mannerisms were gay, and some with no effeminate mannerisms were also gay. But this was 25 years before the metrosexual. I wonder what he'd say now.