Share the story of the first and last time you spent money on woo - Page 2

Kilgore Trout · 12th June 2007, 11:55 AM

I got "that crap" from the library. For the first several minutes, I thought, "Wow! This might explain some neat ideas of quantum mechanics." Then I got angry. Very angry.

grunion · 12th June 2007, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I got "that crap" from the library. For the first several minutes, I thought, "Wow! This might explain some neat ideas of quantum mechanics." Then I got angry. Very angry.

Yes, I was duped into thinking that it was going to be a movie about Physics. How cool that would have been. How uncool it actually was.

Some budding filmmaker on this forum ought to make a real movie about physics.

Fnord · 12th June 2007, 01:18 PM

Yeah ... cute stories ... but how many of you can brag about having made money by selling woo?

- 10 Psychic Energy Damping Field Generator - $20.00 each.

- 50+ cold readings from the "Deck Of Many Things" (AD&D 2nd Edition) - $20.00 each.

- 70 or so full-body massages (for females only), complete with scented candles, chakra-enhancing oils, Enya music, and "Seven-Planar Amethyst Elixre" - $150.00 each

- A large piece of my personal history that I dare not relate to my wife - Priceless!

EeneyMinnieMoe · 12th June 2007, 08:12 PM

You got women to pay you to grope them, just because you said "amethyst elixir" ?! Woo does have its uses.

Fnord · 13th June 2007, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

You got women to pay you to grope them, just because you said "amethyst elixir" ?! Woo does have its uses.

No ... I think it had more to do with my expertise with a Rod Of Healing.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 14th June 2007, 09:25 AM

Fnord, since we're talking about first and last times, could you please talk about the first and last time you charged for woo?

What was the precise moment you turned over to the Dark Side?

And what was the moment you left?

opqdan · 14th June 2007, 10:33 AM

I think I may have once dropped a dollar into a church collection plate... does that count? Admittedly though, I was so young at the time, the money was probably handed to me by my parents. When I was 11 or so, I think that I may have bought a small packet of novelty 'Farting Powder'. Does that count as woo? I thought that it would really work. Either fortunatly or unfortunatly (depending on how you look at it), I don't think I ever believed in any of it. I can't remember ever believing in God, and my parents tell me I never accepted Santa Claus. By the time I had discovered psychics and homeopathy I had already had a good grounding in the scientific method (I can still remember those lessons from when I was 10!). What a boring childhood I must have led, all facts and no fun...

Other than that, I can't think of anything. Though my wife did purchase some homeopathic cold medecine once (I think Zicam?). They write "homeopathic" so small that you don't even notice it. Now she knows better. A couple weeks ago a nurse told her to pick up some Airborn for her sniffles. Her woo alarm went off, and she went and asked the pharmacist, who told her that it was crap and that there was nothing she could do for her cold other than wait it out and treat the symptoms. I was very proud of her.

TheGline · 14th June 2007, 10:37 AM

The last time I ever bought anything knowingly woo-ish was when I bought Robert Anton Wilson's Cosmic Trigger. I was around 25 at the time, ate it up, and wrote an enthusiastic review of it on Amazon.

A year went by, during which I was almost conned into believing "the Holocaust never happened". That experience sparked a good deal of self-criticism and rethinking of my worldview. As an end result, I went back and re-read Cosmic Trigger and realized what a bunch of misguided if well-meaning hoohah it was. (I wrote a second review on Amazon which repudiated the first.)

I haven't spent a dime on anything woo-related since.

I have to admit, I had a bad taste in my mouth about a lot of these things since a friend (back in 1989 or so) went to a palmist and paid upwards of $100 for the most inane shotgun-blast cold-reading imaginable. She told him impossibly generic things like "Music is a significant part of your life" -- well, duh, someone with a jacket that has dozens of band pins on it would probably be interested in music! But he completely discounted any possibility that he had been duped.

Ripley Twenty-Nine · 14th June 2007, 11:24 AM

Probably the last time spending money on woo was the first time that I really starting becoming skeptical. It was the book 'The Celestine Prophecy', recommended by none other than Oprah Winfrey.

I remember wanting to read it because it sounded so interesting... I was interested in New Agey stuff, though I didn't necessarily believe in much of it.

After reading it, I just felt dirty. I realized that this was just a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and that there was an awful lot of it out there. Everything just started to fall into place at that point.

In hindsight, I guess it was money well spent!

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Fnord, since we're talking about first and last times, could you please talk about the first and last time you charged for woo?

What was the precise moment you turned over to the Dark Side?

And what was the moment you left?

Wanna know the rest?

Hey!

Buy the rights!

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 12:01 PM

I guess there's two kinds of woo you can pay for; objects and services.

When it comes to buying objects, it is what you make of it. A crystal to a woo is a magic object, to me it's a chunk of pretty mineral that I want for my mineral collection (it's ever growing, not least from me picking pebbles off the ground anywhere I go

) . A tarot deck of cards is a future telling device to a woo, but a series of artwork to me. I bought Crowley's deck of tarot cards many years ago, really liking the art. A number of woo books might be "bibles" to woos, to me they are interesting ways to learn how people think and what they believe in, and are one subject among a 1000 others that I am interested in and curious about. People are sometimes surprised to see such books on my bookshelves, but they mistake 'interest in' with 'belief in'.

As you can see I have pretty much "woo stuff"

But I never spend much money on it because I never have a lot of money to spend. I buy stuff in thrift stores and such. I buy stuff that I like to look at, or am interested in, and if it doesn't cost me much. It's only woo if you buy it with a woo intention though, I guess, or believe it can do things it can't.

Now, paying anything for any kind of woo services though, to me that's a whole other matter. I have never done that in my life, and I would never do it either.

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

Now, paying anything for any kind of woo services though, to me that's a whole other matter. I have never done that in my life, and I would never do it either.

Aww, c'mon ... I'll give you a reading ... the first one is always free...

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Aww, c'mon ... I'll give you a reading ... the first one is always free...

Hee, I'm all for free stuff

But don't expect me to come back for more

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

Hee, I'm all for free stuff

But don't expect me to come back for more

All I need to know are your gender (choose one: male or female only), and your birthdate (year, month, and day) so that I can get a better focus on the essential vibrations of your particular akashic aura.

Oh, BTW: this is for "Entertainment Purposes Only"!

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

All I need to know are your gender (choose one: male or female only), and your birthdate (year, month, and day) so that I can get a better focus on the essential vibrations of your particular akashic aura.

Oh, BTW: this is for "Entertainment Purposes Only"!

OK, I'll play

Female, born August 16 in 1970. Shake my aura!

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

OK, I'll play

Female, born August 16 in 1970. Shake my aura!

A reading for "Fran," a female, born August 16, 1970:

Ahh ... the impressions are vague ... the energies are interwoven with those of another ... many harmonics ... I'll give it my best effort ...

You are overdue for some excitement in your life. A change of scenery may help. A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else.

Fear holds you back. Seeking the easier path take less effort. A passive attitude is to be avoided.

You want to be the reason that other around you live for, yet you doubt your ability to manage such a diverse crowd.

You put on a cheerful aspect around others, yet certain events from your childhood occassionally manifest themselves again in subtle ways. These memories cloud your present-day activities and divert your best efforts from experiencing the fulness of your relationships.

On the bright side, you are an attractive and intelligent young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity. Your talents should receive recognition in the near future, if they haven't already. You are admired by others for your creativity and your industriousness. You are fiercely loyal to those whom you love, even when they seem to take you for granted.

The best is yet to come!

The images are fading ... fading ... gone ... there is no more that I can tell you at this time, even though this is only a small part of what is recorded on the Akashic plane. May the Light and the Love find you and fill you.

(Gach! I was able to type that all, and keep a straight face! Maybe I should hang out a shingle; one of my own, this time!)

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

A reading for "Fran," a female, born August 16, 1970:

Ahh ... the impressions are vague ... the energies are interwoven with those of another ... many harmonics ... I'll give it my best effort ...

You are overdue for some excitement in your life. A change of scenery may help. A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else.

Fear holds you back. Seeking the easier path take less effort. A passive attitude is to be avoided.

You want to be the reason that other around you live for, yet you doubt your ability to manage such a diverse crowd.

You put on a cheerful aspect around others, yet certain events from your childhood occassionally manifest themselves again in subtle ways. These memories cloud your present-day activities and divert your best efforts from experiencing the fulness of your relationships.

On the bright side, you are an attractive and intelligent young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity. Your talents should receive recognition in the near future, if they haven't already. You are admired by others for your creativity and your industriousness. You are fiercely loyal to those whom you love, even when they seem to take you for granted.

The best is yet to come!

The images are fading ... fading ... gone ... there is no more that I can tell you at this time, even though this is only a small part of what is recorded on the Akashic plane. May the Light and the Love find you and fill you.

(Gach! I was able to type that all, and keep a straight face! Maybe I should hang out a shingle; one of my own, this time!)

*LOL* Wonderful

I might have to rethink this whole skeptic thing now

I especially loled at this part here "...young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity" I will tell myself this every time I find a new gray hair

Hey, you do this for a living?

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

*LOL* Wonderful

I might have to rethink this whole skeptic thing now

I especially loled at this part here "...young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity" I will tell myself this every time I find a new gray hair

Thank you! It's nice to know that I still "have it," but it's also unsettling, too. I mean, all I did was to rely on three things: Your gender, your age, and your nationality. It also helped that you've posted a lot about yourself here on Randi.org! That's why it took so long to reply; not only did I have to write this stuff out, but I had to correlate it with what is essentially public knowledge about you. Nice pic, by the way ... long, auburn, wavy hair ... womanly figure ...

Originally Posted by -Fran-

Hey, you do this for a living?

I used to. People actually pay cash money to hear stuff like that! It took less than a month or so under apprenticeship to my cousin, the witch, to learn how to "cold read" a person. What you received was a "warm reading." That is, the information that I had gleaned from this website was combined with actuarial data about your gender, age, and nationality to come up with a few banalities that stood a high probability of fitting you.

Such as the line about "A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else." It not only has a high probability, but it is an expression of most people's innermost desires, no matter how happy they are in their current relationships.

That's the key; be as vague as possible, but not any more than necessary. Had we been face-to-face, I would have watched your reactions and pounced on anything that seemed to provoke a response. Then come the leading statements and open-ended questions. Then I'd let you ramble on and fill in the details, which I'd repeat back to you.

Pretty soon, you'd be paying 25 USD each day for my "guidance" until you could not make any decisions for yourself (well ... maybe not you, specifically, but this is the usual order of events).

I got out of wooism because it became too easy ... I had real influence over some very gullible (and reasonably attractive) women. There was just so much wrong with taking their money day after day and then telling them how to live, dress, and act, and then to see them actually do it!

People are always seeking a means to control their world, and there's a seeker born every minute.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 02:27 PM

Fnord, I sense in your aura that you want to tell me about the first and last cold-reading you ever did! I sense that there was a woman involved both times and many feelings of guilt and that it money was a big factor.

About my story, there's something else I remembered, now that I thought about it. One of the first things the palm-reader said was that she saw I wasn't doing as well in school as I should be. Then, I assume based on my stunned and embarrassed reaction, she continued "You're smart but you don't work hard enough and you could do a lot better", to which I meekly nodded.

I was amazed at the time that she knew that. As a freshman, I was an A plus student but for reason I won't go into, I dropped to a B- at the end of sophmore year. And the psychic said it with such conviction, like she actually saw that in my hand.

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Thank you! It's nice to know that I still "have it," but it's also unsettling, too. I mean, all I did was to rely on three things: Your gender, your age, and your nationality. It also helped that you've posted a lot about yourself here on Randi.org! That's why it took so long to reply; not only did I have to write this stuff out, but I had to correlate it with what is essentially public knowledge about you.

Yes, that's how I thought you would go about it. It really isn't hard, though it sure takes some artistic talent to be good at it

I wish more people understood how it is done.

Quote:

Nice pic, by the way ... long, auburn, wavy hair ... womanly figure ...

Thanks

I'd call the womanly figure 'big fat ass', but I like your version better

Quote:

I used to. People actually pay cash money to hear stuff like that! It took less than a month or so under apprenticeship to my cousin, the witch, to learn how to "cold read" a person. What you received was a "warm reading." That is, the information that I had gleaned from this website was combined with actuarial data about your gender, age, and nationality to come up with a few banalities that stood a high probability of fitting you.

Yes, and it wasn't surprising that it did. It would, as you said, fit most people in a certain group.

Quote:

Such as the line about "A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else." It not only has a high probability, but it is an expression of most people's innermost desires, no matter how happy they are in their current relationships.

That's the key; be as vague as possible, but not any more than necessary. Had we been face-to-face, I would have watched your reactions and pounced on anything that seemed to provoke a response. Then come the leading statements and open-ended questions. Then I'd let you ramble on and fill in the details, which I'd repeat back to you.

Pretty soon, you'd be paying 25 USD each day for my "guidance" until you could not make any decisions for yourself (well ... maybe not you, specifically, but this is the usual order of events).

Yes, I've read some about cold and warm reading and so on, and realized that I have also practiced it myself without knowing that it was called that. Though I was very well aware of that I was talking out of my ass and manipulated the info I was given simply by talking to people.

I bought a tarot deck of cards many years ago, as I said in a post above, because I liked the art on it. But as I had it, I thought I should learn how to use it as well, so I borrowed a book from the library. However, I had not the patience to learn every meaning of every card, and its variances, that was just boring. So I read about the basics only, brought the cards to a friend, and gave her an experimental reading where I just pretended that what I was saying came from the cards. All the while I was cold reading like nobody's business

and using everything I knew about her after 15 years of friendship. Soon enough all my friends and their friends, and my relatives wanted readings. And they were all impressed, and more or less convinced that I had some sort of gift. I knew I hadn't.

Quote:

I got out of wooism because it became too easy ... I had real influence over some very gullible (and reasonably attractive) women. There was just so much wrong with taking their money day after day and then telling them how to live, dress, and act, and then to see them actually do it!

I know what you mean. Many self acclaimed psychics surely enjoy this power.

I stopped doing it too when I realized that people actually took this seriously, that they didn't care/believed me when I told them how I did it, and that people close to me wanted me (the cards) to tell them what to do in some rather serious matters. I didn't want that kind of responsibility. I never took one cent for all this, it was just a sort of game to me, but when I realized people invested their feelings in it, I quit at once!

Besides, it damn well annoyed me that friends and relatives weren't interested in hearing advice from me unless I held the cards in my hands. I said the same things in "normal" conversations and it NEVER held the same weight as when I said it while looking at some pieces of paper with pretty artwork on. They valued the "card's opinions" more than mine, so to speak

Quote:

People are always seeking a means to control their world, and there's a seeker born every minute.

So very true!!!

And thanks for the reading

hopfen · 15th June 2007, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by orphia nay

I have a vague recollection that the first time was buying a second-hand copy of Linda Goodman's "Sun Signs" in 1987.

Back in the 70s, I bought a paperback copy of this astrology book as well as one on palmistry. Everyone was talking about these things back then, so I checked them out, and discovered that they were in fact nonsense. Those were my only such expenditures, and I certainly don't regret them, because I learned what I wanted to know.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 02:55 PM

You know that tarot deck I bought that I mentioned earlier?

My sister and I thought that it was all real at the time and got a book and tried to do readings based on the meanings of the cards. I think we were wowed by the pretty pictures, too.

Problem is, it was really cumbersome and infinitely annoying because there are, what, more than hundred cards in the deck and they all have a page or so of meaning and the card shuffles are about 20 times more complicated than they need to be. So after a few readings for each other and our other family members, we eventually gave up cause it was impossible. It wasn't for lack of trying cause we really did try to master it for a long time.

I was really disappointed when I later found out that card readers aren't even using the cards but cold-reading their subject and that they might as well be fronting with a tea coaster collection. It's not even the cards.

My sister kept the deck and about a year ago she took it out and tried to read me for fun. I had become a die hard skeptic by that point but I relented and "asked a question for the cards" about my future.

Then a strange thing happened. The cards came up with an answer and for a few moments, I believed it and wanted to hear more of what the cards said.

Those cards make some temporary insanity come over your brain, I swear.

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Problem is, it was really cumbersome and infinitely annoying because there are, what, more than hundred cards in the deck and they all have a page or so of meaning and the card shuffles are about 20 times more complicated than they need to be. So after a few readings for each other and our other family members, we eventually gave up cause it was impossible. It wasn't for lack of trying cause we really did try to master it for a long time.

Yeah, there are 78 cards, and each card holds at least two different meanings, and the 22 cards in the Major Arcana has a longer and more complex meaning than the rest of the cards, the Minor Arcana. I very soon realized I did not have the patience to learn all that

And I soon discovered I didn't need to either.

Quote:

I was really disappointed when I later found out that card readers aren't even using the cards but cold-reading their subject and that they might as well be fronting with a tea coaster collection. It's not even the cards.

Exactly!

Quote:

Then a strange thing happened. The cards came up with an answer and for a few moments, I believed it and wanted to hear more of what the cards said.

Those cards make some temporary insanity come over your brain, I swear.

I hope you have regained your sanity now?

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

Fnord, I sense in your aura that you want to tell me about the first and last cold-reading you ever did! I sense that there was a woman involved both times and many feelings of guilt and that it money was a big factor.

EMM, if only my chakrae were in complete alignment with the stellar convergeance and the trans-phasic aspects of the 23 aethereal tides! Then I would tell you all you want to know. Too bad another such event will not occur until the end of the current shivanic age.

Odd how it seems that most of the clients coming through my cousin's shop were women, and how many of them were otherwise well-educated and rational.

The men that came in were either totally wooish, or were embarrassed to even be seen there.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 03:17 PM

What amazes me about the concept of cartomancy is what does a piece of paper that humans have made have to do with the future?! What link is there?! What's the connection?!

There's a name for people who link completely unrelated events that can't physically have any connection together, such as the random outcome of a shuffle of cards and the health of your pet dog, and it's paranoid schizophrenics.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Odd how it seems that most of the clients coming through my cousin's shop were women, and how many of them were otherwise well-educated and rational.

The men that came in were either totally wooish, or were embarrassed to even be seen there.

My Wiccan friend was actually otherwise really smart and rational. About the paranormal, she was a bloody fool.

You know, they say intelligent can people fall for tricks like cold-reading faster than less intelligent people. Cause they make the connections faster and therefore do alot of the con artist's work for them.

At least, that's what I comfort myself with.

-Fran- · 15th June 2007, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

What amazes me about the concept of cartomancy is what does a piece of paper that humans have made have to do with the future?! What link is there?! What's the connection?!

There's a name for people who link completely unrelated events that can't physically have any connection together, such as the random outcome of a shuffle of cards and the health of your pet dog, and it's paranoid schizophrenics.

That's an interesting question EMM! Many divination methods has some sort of random factor to them. Cards are shuffled, sticks thrown... and the random outcome is then to be interpreted... Why is this connected with the future? Yes, I would like to know the connection too

Kilgore Trout · 15th June 2007, 03:29 PM

A book I read ages ago on tarot cards suggested that it's the psychic energy from the reader that influences how the cards are arranged when shuffled. You were supposed to concentrate on the person you were reading for as you shuffled. Oh and it helps to put the deck under your pillow while you sleep.

That was about as far as I got. It really was for a lack of trying. I saw all those cards and just knew there was no way I was going to memorize them all so I gave up very early on.

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 03:40 PM

Y'know ... someone could read all these wooish buzzwords and "theories" we're throwing around, and come to the conclusion that we're actually wooish ourselves!

I wouldn't be surprised to see the phrase "trans-phasic aspects of the 23 aethereal tides" show up somewhere on a wooish website, even tough I made it up as I entered it.

I guess that as long as it sounds convincing, someone will believe it.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by -Fran-

That's an interesting question EMM! Many divination methods has some sort of random factor to them. Cards are shuffled, sticks thrown... and the random outcome is then to be interpreted... Why is this connected with the future? Yes, I would like to know the connection too

Yes, completely random outsomes that would change every time you threw another stick, or shuffled another card or made another cup of tea. If it were real, the outcome would be the same every time.

Even when it's not random chance, as in astrology, I'm amazed. What does the position of the stars have to do with human lives?! What force is this? How do planetary bodies control the events in all human lives?

Fnord · 15th June 2007, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

... What does the position of the stars have to do with human lives?! What force is this? How do planetary bodies control the events in all human lives?

"Nothing," "suggestion," and "They don't."

It doesn't matter what cards are dealt, where the sticks are thrown, how the stars are arranged, or in what condition the sheep's intestines are in; as long as the "medium" can "interpret" their meaning to the client's satisfaction, their will be job security on one hand and a steady outlay of cash on the other.

In other words "As long as you tell me what I want to hear, I will pay you to do it." Or maybe "As long as I can apply your wisdom to my peace, prosperity, security, and successful mating habits, you will have a job."

It doesn't take too much imagination to come up with variations on these themes.

Or look at it this way; if you were a reasonably attractive female who is looking for "romance," which would you rather hear:

"Show off your ample bosoms and grab the first guy that remembers the color of your eyes."

... or...

"I see a man ... he's a working man ... the letters "A" "J" and and "M" feature prominantly ... he lives near you ... his favorite colour is blue ... he is kind to children and small, furry animals ... he is a quiet person, and needs just a little coaxing ... likes music ... attracted to round shapes and the color pink ... he's a little rough-mannered, but means well ... truly appreciates domestic goddesses and savvy businesswomen ..."

Azrael 5 · 15th June 2007, 04:07 PM

I have numerous books on Spirtualism(antique books)and the Fox sisters.Although not for any woo reasons,I just like old books about intersting people.

Can I be included though? Thanks.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 15th June 2007, 07:45 PM

Fnord...I almost hesitate to ask but could you read me too?

Just a short one?

I'm female and my birthday is on August 5th 1986.

Thanks.

dissonance · 16th June 2007, 04:30 AM

I was really into Tarot cards as a teenager, although I'm not sure I ever completely believed they could actually tell fortunes; mostly I was really into the symbolism and the artwork. I've got a box with 10 or 11 decks in it around here somewhere - probably in the storage space. And I have a set of 3 framed cards (sun, moon, stars from a particularly interesting black and white deck) framed as wall art in my dining room. Even today, if I were to run across a deck with interesting or unique artwork, I'd probably buy it.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 16th June 2007, 02:21 PM

I had an encounter with woo last night

.

My woo friend's equally woo friend visited me and I happened to have come back from a movie at the Moma. I'm a major film buff and I go the the movies at the MOMA all the time because it's free with my student ID.

She started quizzing me on my movie-going habits and then go to the point: she wanted me to watch Conversations with God and The Way of the Peaceful Warrior. I gather from our conversation that that's what she thinks are classics in cinema. She babbled on and on what incredible films they were and how moving and thought provoking and inspiring.

The worst part of it is that she was completely sincere. Really regards that stuff the way most film fans regard Citizen Kane. Or those books the way most bookworms regard the Modern Library's list of greatest books of all time.

I as politely as I could let her know that I think those films are horrible and she looked so hurt and started defending them as cinema.

RSLancastr · 16th June 2007, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

You know, they say intelligent can people fall for tricks like cold-reading faster than less intelligent people. Cause they make the connections faster and therefore do alot of the con artist's work for them.

That, and they quite often think that they are too smart to be fooled.

For instance, the scientists who believed Uri Geller's nonsense.

-Fran- · 17th June 2007, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe

My Wiccan friend was actually otherwise really smart and rational. About the paranormal, she was a bloody fool.

You know, they say intelligent can people fall for tricks like cold-reading faster than less intelligent people. Cause they make the connections faster and therefore do alot of the con artist's work for them.

At least, that's what I comfort myself with.

He he, I am happy I am apparently just the right combination of dumb and smart to not fall for it then

-Fran- · 17th June 2007, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by dissonance

I was really into Tarot cards as a teenager, although I'm not sure I ever completely believed they could actually tell fortunes; mostly I was really into the symbolism and the artwork. I've got a box with 10 or 11 decks in it around here somewhere - probably in the storage space. And I have a set of 3 framed cards (sun, moon, stars from a particularly interesting black and white deck) framed as wall art in my dining room. Even today, if I were to run across a deck with interesting or unique artwork, I'd probably buy it.

Yes. As an artist myself I find the symbolism and the imagery of tarot cards aestethically (sp?) pleasing and interesting. But to believe in the magic powers of printed pieces of paper...

Gargoyle · 17th June 2007, 03:31 AM

I can not remember the first book with "woo" content I bought, but I remember the first I read - a compilation of unexplainable stories with the very unimaginative name "The Unknown"

Quite fashinating for an eight years old who fancied books, though...

I´ve read (and bought) a few books over the years but never really believed in them - astrology, ghost and UFOs and the like. It was more for the "entertainment" value, and I read far more about nature and science than woo stuff. If I ever wanted to read something about the "unexplainable" I prefer to go to the library.

The last book I bought was probably Principia "Discordia" this spring, but, HEY, everybody knows that book tells us everything worth knowing! Really! Really, really!

It is surely more believable that the "Wholly Babble". Hail Eris!

Gargoyle · 17th June 2007, 03:41 AM

That reminds me of that I actually bought a Tarot deck once!
It was with egyptian symbols and artwork, really beautiful and awfully expensive!

Oh, I´ve never used it by the way... Talk about throwing away money

12th June 2007, 11:55 AM	#41
Kilgore Trout Wuse Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tralfamadore Posts: 1,443	I got "that crap" from the library. For the first several minutes, I thought, "Wow! This might explain some neat ideas of quantum mechanics." Then I got angry. Very angry.
	__________________ “I don't even know how to count.” -- Sylvia BrowneThis is invisible.“We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH.” -- L. Ron HubbardThis is invisible.“I don't feel strong.” -- Uri Geller

12th June 2007, 12:22 PM	#42
grunion Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The ice planet Posts: 6,373	Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout I got "that crap" from the library. For the first several minutes, I thought, "Wow! This might explain some neat ideas of quantum mechanics." Then I got angry. Very angry. Yes, I was duped into thinking that it was going to be a movie about Physics. How cool that would have been. How uncool it actually was. Some budding filmmaker on this forum ought to make a real movie about physics.
	__________________ “Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets the intruder's welcome.” ― Charles Mackay, 1841 - Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds

12th June 2007, 01:18 PM	#43
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Yeah ... cute stories ... but how many of you can brag about having made money by selling woo? - 10 Psychic Energy Damping Field Generator - $20.00 each. - 50+ cold readings from the "Deck Of Many Things" (AD&D 2nd Edition) - $20.00 each. - 70 or so full-body massages (for females only), complete with scented candles, chakra-enhancing oils, Enya music, and "Seven-Planar Amethyst Elixre" - $150.00 each - A large piece of my personal history that I dare not relate to my wife - Priceless!
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

13th June 2007, 12:19 PM	#45
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe You got women to pay you to grope them, just because you said "amethyst elixir" ?! Woo does have its uses. No ... I think it had more to do with my expertise with a Rod Of Healing.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

14th June 2007, 10:33 AM	#47
opqdan Scholar Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 119	I think I may have once dropped a dollar into a church collection plate... does that count? Admittedly though, I was so young at the time, the money was probably handed to me by my parents. When I was 11 or so, I think that I may have bought a small packet of novelty 'Farting Powder'. Does that count as woo? I thought that it would really work. Either fortunatly or unfortunatly (depending on how you look at it), I don't think I ever believed in any of it. I can't remember ever believing in God, and my parents tell me I never accepted Santa Claus. By the time I had discovered psychics and homeopathy I had already had a good grounding in the scientific method (I can still remember those lessons from when I was 10!). What a boring childhood I must have led, all facts and no fun... Other than that, I can't think of anything. Though my wife did purchase some homeopathic cold medecine once (I think Zicam?). They write "homeopathic" so small that you don't even notice it. Now she knows better. A couple weeks ago a nurse told her to pick up some Airborn for her sniffles. Her woo alarm went off, and she went and asked the pharmacist, who told her that it was crap and that there was nothing she could do for her cold other than wait it out and treat the symptoms. I was very proud of her.
opqdan Scholar Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 119

12th June 2007, 08:12 PM	#44
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	You got women to pay you to grope them, just because you said "amethyst elixir" ?! Woo does have its uses.

14th June 2007, 09:25 AM	#46
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Fnord, since we're talking about first and last times, could you please talk about the first and last time you charged for woo? What was the precise moment you turned over to the Dark Side? And what was the moment you left?

14th June 2007, 10:37 AM	#48
TheGline Scholar Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 67	The last time I ever bought anything knowingly woo-ish was when I bought Robert Anton Wilson's Cosmic Trigger. I was around 25 at the time, ate it up, and wrote an enthusiastic review of it on Amazon. A year went by, during which I was almost conned into believing "the Holocaust never happened". That experience sparked a good deal of self-criticism and rethinking of my worldview. As an end result, I went back and re-read Cosmic Trigger and realized what a bunch of misguided if well-meaning hoohah it was. (I wrote a second review on Amazon which repudiated the first.) I haven't spent a dime on anything woo-related since. I have to admit, I had a bad taste in my mouth about a lot of these things since a friend (back in 1989 or so) went to a palmist and paid upwards of $100 for the most inane shotgun-blast cold-reading imaginable. She told him impossibly generic things like "Music is a significant part of your life" -- well, duh, someone with a jacket that has dozens of band pins on it would probably be interested in music! But he completely discounted any possibility that he had been duped.
TheGline Scholar Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 67	Last edited by TheGline; 14th June 2007 at 10:39 AM.

14th June 2007, 11:24 AM	#49
Ripley Twenty-Nine Muse Join Date: May 2005 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 867	Probably the last time spending money on woo was the first time that I really starting becoming skeptical. It was the book 'The Celestine Prophecy', recommended by none other than Oprah Winfrey. I remember wanting to read it because it sounded so interesting... I was interested in New Agey stuff, though I didn't necessarily believe in much of it. After reading it, I just felt dirty. I realized that this was just a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and that there was an awful lot of it out there. Everything just started to fall into place at that point. In hindsight, I guess it was money well spent!
	__________________ Ripley 29 "Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?" "Yes I would, Kent."

15th June 2007, 08:02 AM	#50
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Fnord, since we're talking about first and last times, could you please talk about the first and last time you charged for woo? What was the precise moment you turned over to the Dark Side? And what was the moment you left? Wanna know the rest? Hey! Buy the rights!
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 12:01 PM	#51
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	I guess there's two kinds of woo you can pay for; objects and services. When it comes to buying objects, it is what you make of it. A crystal to a woo is a magic object, to me it's a chunk of pretty mineral that I want for my mineral collection (it's ever growing, not least from me picking pebbles off the ground anywhere I go ) . A tarot deck of cards is a future telling device to a woo, but a series of artwork to me. I bought Crowley's deck of tarot cards many years ago, really liking the art. A number of woo books might be "bibles" to woos, to me they are interesting ways to learn how people think and what they believe in, and are one subject among a 1000 others that I am interested in and curious about. People are sometimes surprised to see such books on my bookshelves, but they mistake 'interest in' with 'belief in'. As you can see I have pretty much "woo stuff" But I never spend much money on it because I never have a lot of money to spend. I buy stuff in thrift stores and such. I buy stuff that I like to look at, or am interested in, and if it doesn't cost me much. It's only woo if you buy it with a woo intention though, I guess, or believe it can do things it can't. Now, paying anything for any kind of woo services though, to me that's a whole other matter. I have never done that in my life, and I would never do it either.
	Last edited by -Fran-; 15th June 2007 at 12:04 PM.

15th June 2007, 12:27 PM	#52
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by -Fran- Now, paying anything for any kind of woo services though, to me that's a whole other matter. I have never done that in my life, and I would never do it either. Aww, c'mon ... I'll give you a reading ... the first one is always free...
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 12:31 PM	#53
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Fnord Aww, c'mon ... I'll give you a reading ... the first one is always free... Hee, I'm all for free stuff But don't expect me to come back for more

15th June 2007, 12:36 PM	#54
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by -Fran- Hee, I'm all for free stuff But don't expect me to come back for more All I need to know are your gender (choose one: male or female only), and your birthdate (year, month, and day) so that I can get a better focus on the essential vibrations of your particular akashic aura. Oh, BTW: this is for "Entertainment Purposes Only"!
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 12:39 PM	#55
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Fnord All I need to know are your gender (choose one: male or female only), and your birthdate (year, month, and day) so that I can get a better focus on the essential vibrations of your particular akashic aura. Oh, BTW: this is for "Entertainment Purposes Only"! OK, I'll play Female, born August 16 in 1970. Shake my aura!

15th June 2007, 01:08 PM	#56
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by -Fran- OK, I'll play Female, born August 16 in 1970. Shake my aura! A reading for "Fran," a female, born August 16, 1970: Ahh ... the impressions are vague ... the energies are interwoven with those of another ... many harmonics ... I'll give it my best effort ... You are overdue for some excitement in your life. A change of scenery may help. A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else. Fear holds you back. Seeking the easier path take less effort. A passive attitude is to be avoided. You want to be the reason that other around you live for, yet you doubt your ability to manage such a diverse crowd. You put on a cheerful aspect around others, yet certain events from your childhood occassionally manifest themselves again in subtle ways. These memories cloud your present-day activities and divert your best efforts from experiencing the fulness of your relationships. On the bright side, you are an attractive and intelligent young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity. Your talents should receive recognition in the near future, if they haven't already. You are admired by others for your creativity and your industriousness. You are fiercely loyal to those whom you love, even when they seem to take you for granted. The best is yet to come! The images are fading ... fading ... gone ... there is no more that I can tell you at this time, even though this is only a small part of what is recorded on the Akashic plane. May the Light and the Love find you and fill you. (Gach! I was able to type that all, and keep a straight face! Maybe I should hang out a shingle; one of my own, this time!)
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 01:19 PM	#57
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Fnord A reading for "Fran," a female, born August 16, 1970: Ahh ... the impressions are vague ... the energies are interwoven with those of another ... many harmonics ... I'll give it my best effort ... You are overdue for some excitement in your life. A change of scenery may help. A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else. Fear holds you back. Seeking the easier path take less effort. A passive attitude is to be avoided. You want to be the reason that other around you live for, yet you doubt your ability to manage such a diverse crowd. You put on a cheerful aspect around others, yet certain events from your childhood occassionally manifest themselves again in subtle ways. These memories cloud your present-day activities and divert your best efforts from experiencing the fulness of your relationships. On the bright side, you are an attractive and intelligent young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity. Your talents should receive recognition in the near future, if they haven't already. You are admired by others for your creativity and your industriousness. You are fiercely loyal to those whom you love, even when they seem to take you for granted. The best is yet to come! The images are fading ... fading ... gone ... there is no more that I can tell you at this time, even though this is only a small part of what is recorded on the Akashic plane. May the Light and the Love find you and fill you. (Gach! I was able to type that all, and keep a straight face! Maybe I should hang out a shingle; one of my own, this time!) LOL Wonderful I might have to rethink this whole skeptic thing now I especially loled at this part here "...young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity" I will tell myself this every time I find a new gray hair Hey, you do this for a living?

15th June 2007, 01:47 PM	#58
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by -Fran- LOL Wonderful I might have to rethink this whole skeptic thing now I especially loled at this part here "...young women who is just coming into the full flowering of her feminine maturity" I will tell myself this every time I find a new gray hair Thank you! It's nice to know that I still "have it," but it's also unsettling, too. I mean, all I did was to rely on three things: Your gender, your age, and your nationality. It also helped that you've posted a lot about yourself here on Randi.org! That's why it took so long to reply; not only did I have to write this stuff out, but I had to correlate it with what is essentially public knowledge about you. Nice pic, by the way ... long, auburn, wavy hair ... womanly figure ... Originally Posted by -Fran- Hey, you do this for a living? I used to. People actually pay cash money to hear stuff like that! It took less than a month or so under apprenticeship to my cousin, the witch, to learn how to "cold read" a person. What you received was a "warm reading." That is, the information that I had gleaned from this website was combined with actuarial data about your gender, age, and nationality to come up with a few banalities that stood a high probability of fitting you. Such as the line about "A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else." It not only has a high probability, but it is an expression of most people's innermost desires, no matter how happy they are in their current relationships. That's the key; be as vague as possible, but not any more than necessary. Had we been face-to-face, I would have watched your reactions and pounced on anything that seemed to provoke a response. Then come the leading statements and open-ended questions. Then I'd let you ramble on and fill in the details, which I'd repeat back to you. Pretty soon, you'd be paying 25 USD each day for my "guidance" until you could not make any decisions for yourself (well ... maybe not you, specifically, but this is the usual order of events). I got out of wooism because it became too easy ... I had real influence over some very gullible (and reasonably attractive) women. There was just so much wrong with taking their money day after day and then telling them how to live, dress, and act, and then to see them actually do it! People are always seeking a means to control their world, and there's a seeker born every minute.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 02:27 PM	#59
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Fnord, I sense in your aura that you want to tell me about the first and last cold-reading you ever did! I sense that there was a woman involved both times and many feelings of guilt and that it money was a big factor. About my story, there's something else I remembered, now that I thought about it. One of the first things the palm-reader said was that she saw I wasn't doing as well in school as I should be. Then, I assume based on my stunned and embarrassed reaction, she continued "You're smart but you don't work hard enough and you could do a lot better", to which I meekly nodded. I was amazed at the time that she knew that. As a freshman, I was an A plus student but for reason I won't go into, I dropped to a B- at the end of sophmore year. And the psychic said it with such conviction, like she actually saw that in my hand.

15th June 2007, 02:29 PM	#60
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Fnord Thank you! It's nice to know that I still "have it," but it's also unsettling, too. I mean, all I did was to rely on three things: Your gender, your age, and your nationality. It also helped that you've posted a lot about yourself here on Randi.org! That's why it took so long to reply; not only did I have to write this stuff out, but I had to correlate it with what is essentially public knowledge about you. Yes, that's how I thought you would go about it. It really isn't hard, though it sure takes some artistic talent to be good at it I wish more people understood how it is done. Quote: Nice pic, by the way ... long, auburn, wavy hair ... womanly figure ... Thanks I'd call the womanly figure 'big fat ass', but I like your version better Quote: I used to. People actually pay cash money to hear stuff like that! It took less than a month or so under apprenticeship to my cousin, the witch, to learn how to "cold read" a person. What you received was a "warm reading." That is, the information that I had gleaned from this website was combined with actuarial data about your gender, age, and nationality to come up with a few banalities that stood a high probability of fitting you. Yes, and it wasn't surprising that it did. It would, as you said, fit most people in a certain group. Quote: Such as the line about "A new friend is about to enter your life and kindle old feelings you once had for someone else." It not only has a high probability, but it is an expression of most people's innermost desires, no matter how happy they are in their current relationships. That's the key; be as vague as possible, but not any more than necessary. Had we been face-to-face, I would have watched your reactions and pounced on anything that seemed to provoke a response. Then come the leading statements and open-ended questions. Then I'd let you ramble on and fill in the details, which I'd repeat back to you. Pretty soon, you'd be paying 25 USD each day for my "guidance" until you could not make any decisions for yourself (well ... maybe not you, specifically, but this is the usual order of events). Yes, I've read some about cold and warm reading and so on, and realized that I have also practiced it myself without knowing that it was called that. Though I was very well aware of that I was talking out of my ass and manipulated the info I was given simply by talking to people. I bought a tarot deck of cards many years ago, as I said in a post above, because I liked the art on it. But as I had it, I thought I should learn how to use it as well, so I borrowed a book from the library. However, I had not the patience to learn every meaning of every card, and its variances, that was just boring. So I read about the basics only, brought the cards to a friend, and gave her an experimental reading where I just pretended that what I was saying came from the cards. All the while I was cold reading like nobody's business and using everything I knew about her after 15 years of friendship. Soon enough all my friends and their friends, and my relatives wanted readings. And they were all impressed, and more or less convinced that I had some sort of gift. I knew I hadn't. Quote: I got out of wooism because it became too easy ... I had real influence over some very gullible (and reasonably attractive) women. There was just so much wrong with taking their money day after day and then telling them how to live, dress, and act, and then to see them actually do it! I know what you mean. Many self acclaimed psychics surely enjoy this power. I stopped doing it too when I realized that people actually took this seriously, that they didn't care/believed me when I told them how I did it, and that people close to me wanted me (the cards) to tell them what to do in some rather serious matters. I didn't want that kind of responsibility. I never took one cent for all this, it was just a sort of game to me, but when I realized people invested their feelings in it, I quit at once! Besides, it damn well annoyed me that friends and relatives weren't interested in hearing advice from me unless I held the cards in my hands. I said the same things in "normal" conversations and it NEVER held the same weight as when I said it while looking at some pieces of paper with pretty artwork on. They valued the "card's opinions" more than mine, so to speak Quote: People are always seeking a means to control their world, and there's a seeker born every minute. So very true!!! And thanks for the reading

15th June 2007, 02:44 PM	#61
hopfen devout agnostic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 69	Originally Posted by orphia nay I have a vague recollection that the first time was buying a second-hand copy of Linda Goodman's "Sun Signs" in 1987. Back in the 70s, I bought a paperback copy of this astrology book as well as one on palmistry. Everyone was talking about these things back then, so I checked them out, and discovered that they were in fact nonsense. Those were my only such expenditures, and I certainly don't regret them, because I learned what I wanted to know.
	__________________ Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints ...

15th June 2007, 02:55 PM	#62
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	You know that tarot deck I bought that I mentioned earlier? My sister and I thought that it was all real at the time and got a book and tried to do readings based on the meanings of the cards. I think we were wowed by the pretty pictures, too. Problem is, it was really cumbersome and infinitely annoying because there are, what, more than hundred cards in the deck and they all have a page or so of meaning and the card shuffles are about 20 times more complicated than they need to be. So after a few readings for each other and our other family members, we eventually gave up cause it was impossible. It wasn't for lack of trying cause we really did try to master it for a long time. I was really disappointed when I later found out that card readers aren't even using the cards but cold-reading their subject and that they might as well be fronting with a tea coaster collection. It's not even the cards. My sister kept the deck and about a year ago she took it out and tried to read me for fun. I had become a die hard skeptic by that point but I relented and "asked a question for the cards" about my future. Then a strange thing happened. The cards came up with an answer and for a few moments, I believed it and wanted to hear more of what the cards said. Those cards make some temporary insanity come over your brain, I swear.

15th June 2007, 03:02 PM	#63
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Problem is, it was really cumbersome and infinitely annoying because there are, what, more than hundred cards in the deck and they all have a page or so of meaning and the card shuffles are about 20 times more complicated than they need to be. So after a few readings for each other and our other family members, we eventually gave up cause it was impossible. It wasn't for lack of trying cause we really did try to master it for a long time. Yeah, there are 78 cards, and each card holds at least two different meanings, and the 22 cards in the Major Arcana has a longer and more complex meaning than the rest of the cards, the Minor Arcana. I very soon realized I did not have the patience to learn all that And I soon discovered I didn't need to either. Quote: I was really disappointed when I later found out that card readers aren't even using the cards but cold-reading their subject and that they might as well be fronting with a tea coaster collection. It's not even the cards. Exactly! Quote: Then a strange thing happened. The cards came up with an answer and for a few moments, I believed it and wanted to hear more of what the cards said. Those cards make some temporary insanity come over your brain, I swear. I hope you have regained your sanity now?

15th June 2007, 03:14 PM	#64
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe Fnord, I sense in your aura that you want to tell me about the first and last cold-reading you ever did! I sense that there was a woman involved both times and many feelings of guilt and that it money was a big factor. EMM, if only my chakrae were in complete alignment with the stellar convergeance and the trans-phasic aspects of the 23 aethereal tides! Then I would tell you all you want to know. Too bad another such event will not occur until the end of the current shivanic age. Odd how it seems that most of the clients coming through my cousin's shop were women, and how many of them were otherwise well-educated and rational. The men that came in were either totally wooish, or were embarrassed to even be seen there.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 03:17 PM	#65
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	What amazes me about the concept of cartomancy is what does a piece of paper that humans have made have to do with the future?! What link is there?! What's the connection?! There's a name for people who link completely unrelated events that can't physically have any connection together, such as the random outcome of a shuffle of cards and the health of your pet dog, and it's paranoid schizophrenics.

15th June 2007, 03:26 PM	#66
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Originally Posted by Fnord Odd how it seems that most of the clients coming through my cousin's shop were women, and how many of them were otherwise well-educated and rational. The men that came in were either totally wooish, or were embarrassed to even be seen there. My Wiccan friend was actually otherwise really smart and rational. About the paranormal, she was a bloody fool. You know, they say intelligent can people fall for tricks like cold-reading faster than less intelligent people. Cause they make the connections faster and therefore do alot of the con artist's work for them. At least, that's what I comfort myself with.

15th June 2007, 03:27 PM	#67
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe What amazes me about the concept of cartomancy is what does a piece of paper that humans have made have to do with the future?! What link is there?! What's the connection?! There's a name for people who link completely unrelated events that can't physically have any connection together, such as the random outcome of a shuffle of cards and the health of your pet dog, and it's paranoid schizophrenics. That's an interesting question EMM! Many divination methods has some sort of random factor to them. Cards are shuffled, sticks thrown... and the random outcome is then to be interpreted... Why is this connected with the future? Yes, I would like to know the connection too

15th June 2007, 03:29 PM	#68
Kilgore Trout Wuse Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tralfamadore Posts: 1,443	A book I read ages ago on tarot cards suggested that it's the psychic energy from the reader that influences how the cards are arranged when shuffled. You were supposed to concentrate on the person you were reading for as you shuffled. Oh and it helps to put the deck under your pillow while you sleep. That was about as far as I got. It really was for a lack of trying. I saw all those cards and just knew there was no way I was going to memorize them all so I gave up very early on.
	__________________ “I don't even know how to count.” -- Sylvia BrowneThis is invisible.“We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH.” -- L. Ron HubbardThis is invisible.“I don't feel strong.” -- Uri Geller

15th June 2007, 03:40 PM	#69
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Y'know ... someone could read all these wooish buzzwords and "theories" we're throwing around, and come to the conclusion that we're actually wooish ourselves! I wouldn't be surprised to see the phrase "trans-phasic aspects of the 23 aethereal tides" show up somewhere on a wooish website, even tough I made it up as I entered it. I guess that as long as it sounds convincing, someone will believe it.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

15th June 2007, 03:44 PM	#70
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Originally Posted by -Fran- That's an interesting question EMM! Many divination methods has some sort of random factor to them. Cards are shuffled, sticks thrown... and the random outcome is then to be interpreted... Why is this connected with the future? Yes, I would like to know the connection too Yes, completely random outsomes that would change every time you threw another stick, or shuffled another card or made another cup of tea. If it were real, the outcome would be the same every time. Even when it's not random chance, as in astrology, I'm amazed. What does the position of the stars have to do with human lives?! What force is this? How do planetary bodies control the events in all human lives?

15th June 2007, 04:01 PM	#71
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by EeneyMinnieMoe ... What does the position of the stars have to do with human lives?! What force is this? How do planetary bodies control the events in all human lives? "Nothing," "suggestion," and "They don't." It doesn't matter what cards are dealt, where the sticks are thrown, how the stars are arranged, or in what condition the sheep's intestines are in; as long as the "medium" can "interpret" their meaning to the client's satisfaction, their will be job security on one hand and a steady outlay of cash on the other. In other words "As long as you tell me what I want to hear, I will pay you to do it." Or maybe "As long as I can apply your wisdom to my peace, prosperity, security, and successful mating habits, you will have a job." It doesn't take too much imagination to come up with variations on these themes. Or look at it this way; if you were a reasonably attractive female who is looking for "romance," which would you rather hear: "Show off your ample bosoms and grab the first guy that remembers the color of your eyes." ... or... "I see a man ... he's a working man ... the letters "A" "J" and and "M" feature prominantly ... he lives near you ... his favorite colour is blue ... he is kind to children and small, furry animals ... he is a quiet person, and needs just a little coaxing ... likes music ... attracted to round shapes and the color pink ... he's a little rough-mannered, but means well ... truly appreciates domestic goddesses and savvy businesswomen ..."
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.** Last edited by Fnord; 15th June 2007 at 04:03 PM.

15th June 2007, 04:07 PM	#72
Azrael 5 Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Yorkshire,Uk Posts: 5,029	I have numerous books on Spirtualism(antique books)and the Fox sisters.Although not for any woo reasons,I just like old books about intersting people. Can I be included though? Thanks.
	__________________ "I achieve these results through a mixture of magic,misdirection,suggestion and showmanship"-Derren Brown

15th June 2007, 07:45 PM	#73
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Fnord...I almost hesitate to ask but could you read me too? Just a short one? I'm female and my birthday is on August 5th 1986. Thanks.

16th June 2007, 04:30 AM	#74
dissonance Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 274	I was really into Tarot cards as a teenager, although I'm not sure I ever completely believed they could actually tell fortunes; mostly I was really into the symbolism and the artwork. I've got a box with 10 or 11 decks in it around here somewhere - probably in the storage space. And I have a set of 3 framed cards (sun, moon, stars from a particularly interesting black and white deck) framed as wall art in my dining room. Even today, if I were to run across a deck with interesting or unique artwork, I'd probably buy it.

16th June 2007, 02:21 PM	#75
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	I had an encounter with woo last night . My woo friend's equally woo friend visited me and I happened to have come back from a movie at the Moma. I'm a major film buff and I go the the movies at the MOMA all the time because it's free with my student ID. She started quizzing me on my movie-going habits and then go to the point: she wanted me to watch Conversations with God and The Way of the Peaceful Warrior. I gather from our conversation that that's what she thinks are classics in cinema. She babbled on and on what incredible films they were and how moving and thought provoking and inspiring. The worst part of it is that she was completely sincere. Really regards that stuff the way most film fans regard Citizen Kane. Or those books the way most bookworms regard the Modern Library's list of greatest books of all time. I as politely as I could let her know that I think those films are horrible and she looked so hurt and started defending them as cinema.