Gospel Magic

Cain · 15th June 2007, 06:08 PM

OK, Gospel Magic. This is something I've always heard about but never bothered to explore. Gmail, which can't be too creepy if it's sending me ads for Gospel magic, led me to this link:

https://www.dazzlemagicshop.com/cate...g?categoryId=9

Here's the ad copy for Kingdom Kards: "Go through the Bible from creation to the resurrection of Jesus Christ with this deck of jumbo playing cards. A great way to witness and the story is written on the back of each card."

I've heard people say that there's a surprising number of knock-offs in the Gospel market. Gospel manufacturers essentially rip-off a magician's methods, but repackage the presentation in order to illustrate a Bible lesson (e.g., stealing is wrong). For some reason this stuff weirds me out the same way Christian rock does. I guess I'm so used to seeing something a certain way that a bizarre, cheesy, pale imitation used for doctrinaire ends slightly flusters me.

Dinsdale Piranha · 15th June 2007, 06:38 PM

I notice they don't give a table of contents for the DVD's. What's on them? Turning water into wine? Walking on water? Resurrection? Magic with loaves and fishes?

Are the Kingdom Cards the Gospel version of the marked, stacked deck? I don't recall there ever being any mention of Jesus doing card tricks.

thaiboxerken · 15th June 2007, 06:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...mily+guy+jesus

Here is Jesus doing magic.

Dinsdale Piranha · 15th June 2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...mily+guy+jesus

Here is Jesus doing magic.

I've seen that shtick before. Typical Jesus. Ripping-off a comedian he saw years ago on TV.

MelBrooksfan · 15th June 2007, 09:17 PM

Christianity-related props can be an endless source of amusement to the atheist conjuror. I, myself, am currently in possession of a lovely coin which contains a Bible verse on each side (the theme of said coin is: Child abuse is not only okay, it's recommended!). I can see some potential for these cards.

firecoins · 15th June 2007, 10:40 PM

Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine. I am not sure he is the best role model for AA.

MelBrooksfan · 15th June 2007, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by firecoins

Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine. I am not sure he is the best role model for AA.

But, I bet he was popular at parties.

JonWhite · 16th June 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Dinsdale Piranha

I notice they don't give a table of contents for the DVD's. What's on them? Turning water into wine? Walking on water? Resurrection? Magic with loaves and fishes?

Scottish magicians Barry Jones and Stuart MacLeod had a couple of shows on TV called "Tricks From the Bible" and "The Magic of Jesus" a while back doing just those effects. Several clips can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rry+and+Stuart

If Jesus should happen to come by again he's gonna have to seriously up his game to get the respect next time around.

Bob Klase · 16th June 2007, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by firecoins

Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine.

But he could quit any time he wanted.

Mick Houlahan · 20th June 2007, 03:13 AM

Gospel Magic - as entertainment goes, it's right up there with Puppet Ministry.

RobertlewisIR · 28th June 2007, 05:13 AM

Jesus is overrated. I'm a horrible magician, and even I managed to turn water to wine. Well, to be fair, it was cherry Kool-aid for the kids, but the idea's the same.

Remember the loaves and fishes trick? I managed to do that one with donuts.

Dinsdale Piranha · 28th June 2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by RobertlewisIR

Remember the loaves and fishes trick? I managed to do that one with donuts.

[Homer Simpson]
"Is there anything donuts can't do?"
[/Homer Simpson]

Cain · 29th June 2007, 02:17 AM

Here's a Christian take on Color monte: http://youtube.com/watch?v=FUN5E1mt4bo

Here's self-described "Christian illusionist" John Louis: http://youtube.com/watch?v=65d88PID_cI

"Just as there are a lot of cards in this deck, so to do we feel like we're very small, that God is not watching out for us, that we're lost in the shuffle."

The slop shuffle is also a metaphor for how we sometimes feel -- "we don't know if we're coming or going, which way is up." Eventually, "The cards right themselves to show there is order in everything God does." This guy is creepier than Michael Ammar.

RobertlewisIR · 2nd July 2007, 12:29 AM

"Christian illusionist," eh? Well, I can't say I'm all that surprised. The whole religion is based on tricks any conjuror could perform (except, perhaps, raising the dead, but I don't suppose they have any 2,000 year old medical records to validate that, now do they?).

mark.oleary@comcast.net · 23rd July 2007, 10:54 AM

Ever hear of a Catholic mass described as a "magic show?" Fans of the film, "Full Metal Jacket" will recall R. Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant) calling it that. A reference to the doctrine of transubstantiation, in which it is alleged that the bread & wine are LITERALLY turned into the body and blood of you-know-who.

Personally, I've seen the trick done many times, but never done well. You'd think 2000 years would be enough time to perfect the technique.

MelBrooksfan · 24th July 2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Here's self-described "Christian illusionist" John Louis: http://youtube.com/watch?v=65d88PID_cI

"Just as there are a lot of cards in this deck, so to do we feel like we're very small, that God is not watching out for us, that we're lost in the shuffle."

The slop shuffle is also a metaphor for how we sometimes feel -- "we don't know if we're coming or going, which way is up." Eventually, "The cards right themselves to show there is order in everything God does." This guy is creepier than Michael Ammar.

This man is a genius. He knows how hard it is to stay awake in Church. Thusly, he starts preaching. His audience can't focus. It's the perfect misdirection. Also, it's incredible easy! Just spout some Sunday School crap and Bible quotes. It's much easier than writing your own patter.

AgeGap · 25th July 2007, 02:05 AM

A few generations ago we could have burned him for witchcraft.

vIQleS · 30th July 2007, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by mark.oleary@comcast.net

Ever hear of a Catholic mass described as a "magic show?" Fans of the film, "Full Metal Jacket" will recall R. Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant) calling it that. A reference to the doctrine of transubstantiation, in which it is alleged that the bread & wine are LITERALLY turned into the body and blood of you-know-who.

Voldemort?

Yes.	0	0%
No.	10	100.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

15th June 2007, 06:08 PM	#1
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,958	Gospel Magic OK, Gospel Magic. This is something I've always heard about but never bothered to explore. Gmail, which can't be too creepy if it's sending me ads for Gospel magic, led me to this link: https://www.dazzlemagicshop.com/cate...g?categoryId=9 Here's the ad copy for Kingdom Kards: "Go through the Bible from creation to the resurrection of Jesus Christ with this deck of jumbo playing cards. A great way to witness and the story is written on the back of each card." I've heard people say that there's a surprising number of knock-offs in the Gospel market. Gospel manufacturers essentially rip-off a magician's methods, but repackage the presentation in order to illustrate a Bible lesson (e.g., stealing is wrong). For some reason this stuff weirds me out the same way Christian rock does. I guess I'm so used to seeing something a certain way that a bizarre, cheesy, pale imitation used for doctrinaire ends slightly flusters me.
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these ***** Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! ***** pleeze.

15th June 2007, 06:38 PM	#2
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	I notice they don't give a table of contents for the DVD's. What's on them? Turning water into wine? Walking on water? Resurrection? Magic with loaves and fishes? Are the Kingdom Cards the Gospel version of the marked, stacked deck? I don't recall there ever being any mention of Jesus doing card tricks.
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

15th June 2007, 06:41 PM	#3
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 13,315	http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...mily+guy+jesus Here is Jesus doing magic.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

15th June 2007, 06:45 PM	#4
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...mily+guy+jesus Here is Jesus doing magic. I've seen that shtick before. Typical Jesus. Ripping-off a comedian he saw years ago on TV.
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

15th June 2007, 09:17 PM	#5
MelBrooksfan Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,011	Christianity-related props can be an endless source of amusement to the atheist conjuror. I, myself, am currently in possession of a lovely coin which contains a Bible verse on each side (the theme of said coin is: Child abuse is not only okay, it's recommended!). I can see some potential for these cards.

15th June 2007, 10:40 PM	#6
firecoins Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nyack, NY Posts: 3,065	Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine. I am not sure he is the best role model for AA.
	__________________ NY Paramedic, skeptic, 9/11/01 Reality-ist. I am both right wing nut and left wing lunatic. Deal with it.

15th June 2007, 11:15 PM	#7
MelBrooksfan Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,011	Originally Posted by firecoins Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine. I am not sure he is the best role model for AA. But, I bet he was popular at parties.

16th June 2007, 10:00 AM	#8
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	Originally Posted by Dinsdale Piranha I notice they don't give a table of contents for the DVD's. What's on them? Turning water into wine? Walking on water? Resurrection? Magic with loaves and fishes? Scottish magicians Barry Jones and Stuart MacLeod had a couple of shows on TV called "Tricks From the Bible" and "The Magic of Jesus" a while back doing just those effects. Several clips can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rry+and+Stuart If Jesus should happen to come by again he's gonna have to seriously up his game to get the respect next time around.
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland

16th June 2007, 10:10 AM	#9
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,445	Originally Posted by firecoins Jesus is often used as a role model to get people to quit drinking. Jesus turned water to wine. But he could quit any time he wanted.

20th June 2007, 03:13 AM	#10
Mick Houlahan Scholar Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago 'burbs Posts: 112	Gospel Magic - as entertainment goes, it's right up there with Puppet Ministry.

28th June 2007, 05:13 AM	#11
RobertlewisIR New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 20	Jesus is overrated. I'm a horrible magician, and even I managed to turn water to wine. Well, to be fair, it was cherry Kool-aid for the kids, but the idea's the same. Remember the loaves and fishes trick? I managed to do that one with donuts.
RobertlewisIR New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 20

28th June 2007, 07:20 AM	#12
Dinsdale Piranha A cruel man, but fair. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: In the conversation pit. Posts: 842	Originally Posted by RobertlewisIR Remember the loaves and fishes trick? I managed to do that one with donuts. [Homer Simpson] "Is there anything donuts can't do?" [/Homer Simpson]
	__________________ "Don't hit me with them negative waves this early in the morning." Oddball from Kelly's Heroes. "I almost had a psychic girlfriend, but she left me before we met." Steven Wright

29th June 2007, 02:17 AM	#13
Cain Contrarian Join Date: May 2002 Location: S. California Posts: 3,958	Here's a Christian take on Color monte: http://youtube.com/watch?v=FUN5E1mt4bo Here's self-described "Christian illusionist" John Louis: http://youtube.com/watch?v=65d88PID_cI "Just as there are a lot of cards in this deck, so to do we feel like we're very small, that God is not watching out for us, that we're lost in the shuffle." The slop shuffle is also a metaphor for how we sometimes feel -- "we don't know if we're coming or going, which way is up." Eventually, "The cards right themselves to show there is order in everything God does." This guy is creepier than Michael Ammar.
	__________________ Well, well, well. If it ain't the serious, elusive Leroy Green. I've been waitin' a long time for this, Leroy. I am sick of hearin' these ***** Superman stories about the "wassah" legendary Bruce Leroy catchin' bullets with his teeth. Catches bullets with his teeth?! ***** pleeze.

2nd July 2007, 12:29 AM	#14
RobertlewisIR New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 20	"Christian illusionist," eh? Well, I can't say I'm all that surprised. The whole religion is based on tricks any conjuror could perform (except, perhaps, raising the dead, but I don't suppose they have any 2,000 year old medical records to validate that, now do they?).
RobertlewisIR New Blood Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 20

23rd July 2007, 10:54 AM	#15
mark.oleary@comcast.net New Blood Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 3	Ever hear of a Catholic mass described as a "magic show?" Fans of the film, "Full Metal Jacket" will recall R. Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant) calling it that. A reference to the doctrine of transubstantiation, in which it is alleged that the bread & wine are LITERALLY turned into the body and blood of you-know-who. Personally, I've seen the trick done many times, but never done well. You'd think 2000 years would be enough time to perfect the technique.

24th July 2007, 10:44 AM	#16
MelBrooksfan Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,011	Originally Posted by Cain Here's self-described "Christian illusionist" John Louis: http://youtube.com/watch?v=65d88PID_cI "Just as there are a lot of cards in this deck, so to do we feel like we're very small, that God is not watching out for us, that we're lost in the shuffle." The slop shuffle is also a metaphor for how we sometimes feel -- "we don't know if we're coming or going, which way is up." Eventually, "The cards right themselves to show there is order in everything God does." This guy is creepier than Michael Ammar. This man is a genius. He knows how hard it is to stay awake in Church. Thusly, he starts preaching. His audience can't focus. It's the perfect misdirection. Also, it's incredible easy! Just spout some Sunday School crap and Bible quotes. It's much easier than writing your own patter.
	Last edited by MelBrooksfan; 24th July 2007 at 10:47 AM.

25th July 2007, 02:05 AM	#17
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,803	A few generations ago we could have burned him for witchcraft.
AgeGap Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,803

30th July 2007, 10:13 PM	#18
vIQleS Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Auckland NZ Posts: 730	Originally Posted by mark.oleary@comcast.net Ever hear of a Catholic mass described as a "magic show?" Fans of the film, "Full Metal Jacket" will recall R. Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant) calling it that. A reference to the doctrine of transubstantiation, in which it is alleged that the bread & wine are LITERALLY turned into the body and blood of you-know-who. Voldemort?
	__________________ ==--New NZ Skeptical Podcast--== TheCusp Episode Zero is Live!!! http://thecusp.org.nz RSS feed: http://thecusp.org.nz/podcast/rss