What is religion's impact on the evolution of man?

Aurelian · 19th June 2007, 07:36 AM

I have been pondering this question a bit, and thought I would see how you all ponder this as well. I've thought that religions, as organized groups has achieved some highs (hospitals) and lows (wars). Then there is the personal choices that are higly influenced by religion, like many devout folks marry and have many, many children. Does religion affect "survival of the fittest" any more than belonging to any organized large group (example: being a citizen of China, or, say belonging to a tribe)?

Just wondering how you all process this.

A

Hourglassmemory · 19th June 2007, 08:01 AM

I know this might sound weird or even ignorant but I wonder if the islamic terrorists killing themselves isn't, in a way, evolution doing its job.
I know evolution isn't this monster getting rid of them, or that they aren't fit to live in this world but....I guess when you reach the extreme of killing yourself...it's a state of mind that evolution "choses" not to have around, if you know what I mean.

It's hard to explain.

Wolfman · 19th June 2007, 08:48 AM

I would say that this is, in many ways, a "chicken vs. egg" situation. I'd say that religion was just as much a result of our evolution, as our evolution was affected by religion.

One of the most fundamental hallmarks of human evolution, in my opinion, was the development of the ability to ask "Why?". We changed from being creatures who simply experienced the world, to being creatures who sought to understand why those things happened, and through understanding, to control them and manipulate them to our own advantage. Without that crucial step, we would never have become who we are.

Thus, religion -- at least initially -- would in my opinion be mankind's first efforts at observing the world scientifically. They observed the world -- thunder, lightning, disease, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. -- and attempted to find causes for events that happened around them. Lacking the tools or technology necessary to identify the natural causes, they were left with the almost inevitable conclusion that the causes must be supernatural.

So, they established a theory, and then set out to prove it, by forming different hypotheses, and testing them. For example, if it was a god that was causing volcanoes, it seemed most likely that this was because the god was angry at them. So they would need to establish a list of rules about what things made that god angry, and avoid them. And they would need to establish rituals and procedures to appease their god when he did get angry. And you needed people who could focus their time and energy specifically on understanding their gods, and on implementing their gods' rules.

Thus, you developed theologies, religious hierarchies, etc.

Of course, these methods didn't actually work most of the time. But occasionally they did. Sometimes just by coincidence (a volcano starts erupting, they sacrifice some children, the volcano stops), sometimes by accidentally hitting on an effective method (using certain plants that actually helped cure certain diseases). It would certainly fall far short of what we would consider the proper "scientific method" today.

But in the end, religion was -- at least at first -- a necessary and inevitable part of mankind's efforts to understand, control, and manipulate the world around us.

Of course, as religions grew, they inevitably shaped and directed the direction in which different cultures grew, also. One culture might have developed a religious system -- such as the Greeks -- where questioning one's gods and religious beliefs was quite acceptable, and where new ideas were encouraged and accepted. Another culture might have developed a religious system that was very strict and restrictive, punishing anyone who questioned or challenged it.

Religions also affected how we looked at the world. Christianity, for example, presents us with a god who encourages us to change the world around us. We don't have to accept things the way they are...we should in fact work to change them, to make them better; we should help others who are in worse conditions than ourselves; and we can pray to our god to change things for us. On the other hand, religions such as the Hindu faith teach that one must accept whatever happens, and not fight against it or try to change it, that it is gods will. You don't pray to your gods to change your situation; you only pray for the strength to endure it, and learn from it, so that in your next incarnation you can have a better life. Such things will, inevitably, have significant influence on a society's evolution and development.

And, of course, while religions formed initially as a way to try to understand and control the world around us, inevitably people who wanted power were drawn to leadership of those religions, and used those religious beliefs in order to consolidate their own power. Religions changed from being a way of examining and understanding the world around us, to being a way to control people and get them to do what you want.

The Grave · 20th June 2007, 01:49 AM

Points...on evolution...

Religions banned the practice of homosexuality; thereby increasing the genes for that trait in the gene pool... ironic, since they hate it so much! I have nothing against same sex partnerships of even them as being parents. But I think it is most obvious that there seems to be an awful lot of them about, especially in the media. It could be that it's more acceptable these days, but that is inconsequentail to the fact that they ARE there in great numbers, adding greatly to the culture and music etc. Leave them alone you bible/curan bashing geeks!
Religion has led to MORE evolution in that they "separate" the genes of people and lead to the differences we see today, due to mutational changes, being emphasised more as physical traits. They always try to separate groups and this leads to selection forming great variations.
In-house marriages will ultimately reduce the variation. A kind of in-breeding. This can result in physical and mental abnormalities; the symptoms of religion, so to speak.
This is off-set by the religion being forced onto other cultures; genes can then be "brought in through the back door".

On the whole religion has no net effect, I would say. It provides changes, but whether they are good or bad needs specific examples to be considered.

It certainly reduces variation... which is bad... eg pick any nation and take a good look.

This is of course offset a little by the fact that a white person can become a sikh, muslim or christian.

But the fact also remains that a white muslim in deepest, darkest Iran would arouse suspicions and be the first to get be-headed, when the **** hits the fan!

Just like Germans suffered in the UK during/after the war.... look what happened to the Queen!

Griff... "Maam." Bows respectfully to the Crown {not the person, of course, because I don't know her as a person and can't respect her then; but wait a mo. '''the Crown'''....the same crown that enslaved people around the world?!"

In that case I won't bow at all then, thanks.

19th June 2007, 07:36 AM	#1
Aurelian Tire Kicker Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Left Field Posts: 475	What is religion's impact on the evolution of man? I have been pondering this question a bit, and thought I would see how you all ponder this as well. I've thought that religions, as organized groups has achieved some highs (hospitals) and lows (wars). Then there is the personal choices that are higly influenced by religion, like many devout folks marry and have many, many children. Does religion affect "survival of the fittest" any more than belonging to any organized large group (example: being a citizen of China, or, say belonging to a tribe)? Just wondering how you all process this. A

19th June 2007, 08:48 AM	#3
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,809	I would say that this is, in many ways, a "chicken vs. egg" situation. I'd say that religion was just as much a result of our evolution, as our evolution was affected by religion. One of the most fundamental hallmarks of human evolution, in my opinion, was the development of the ability to ask "Why?". We changed from being creatures who simply experienced the world, to being creatures who sought to understand why those things happened, and through understanding, to control them and manipulate them to our own advantage. Without that crucial step, we would never have become who we are. Thus, religion -- at least initially -- would in my opinion be mankind's first efforts at observing the world scientifically. They observed the world -- thunder, lightning, disease, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc. -- and attempted to find causes for events that happened around them. Lacking the tools or technology necessary to identify the natural causes, they were left with the almost inevitable conclusion that the causes must be supernatural. So, they established a theory, and then set out to prove it, by forming different hypotheses, and testing them. For example, if it was a god that was causing volcanoes, it seemed most likely that this was because the god was angry at them. So they would need to establish a list of rules about what things made that god angry, and avoid them. And they would need to establish rituals and procedures to appease their god when he did get angry. And you needed people who could focus their time and energy specifically on understanding their gods, and on implementing their gods' rules. Thus, you developed theologies, religious hierarchies, etc. Of course, these methods didn't actually work most of the time. But occasionally they did. Sometimes just by coincidence (a volcano starts erupting, they sacrifice some children, the volcano stops), sometimes by accidentally hitting on an effective method (using certain plants that actually helped cure certain diseases). It would certainly fall far short of what we would consider the proper "scientific method" today. But in the end, religion was -- at least at first -- a necessary and inevitable part of mankind's efforts to understand, control, and manipulate the world around us. Of course, as religions grew, they inevitably shaped and directed the direction in which different cultures grew, also. One culture might have developed a religious system -- such as the Greeks -- where questioning one's gods and religious beliefs was quite acceptable, and where new ideas were encouraged and accepted. Another culture might have developed a religious system that was very strict and restrictive, punishing anyone who questioned or challenged it. Religions also affected how we looked at the world. Christianity, for example, presents us with a god who encourages us to change the world around us. We don't have to accept things the way they are...we should in fact work to change them, to make them better; we should help others who are in worse conditions than ourselves; and we can pray to our god to change things for us. On the other hand, religions such as the Hindu faith teach that one must accept whatever happens, and not fight against it or try to change it, that it is gods will. You don't pray to your gods to change your situation; you only pray for the strength to endure it, and learn from it, so that in your next incarnation you can have a better life. Such things will, inevitably, have significant influence on a society's evolution and development. And, of course, while religions formed initially as a way to try to understand and control the world around us, inevitably people who wanted power were drawn to leadership of those religions, and used those religious beliefs in order to consolidate their own power. Religions changed from being a way of examining and understanding the world around us, to being a way to control people and get them to do what you want.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

20th June 2007, 01:49 AM	#4
The Grave Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Great Britain Posts: 649	Religion a theory...most definitely! You should see my thread! Points...on evolution... Religions banned the practice of homosexuality; thereby increasing the genes for that trait in the gene pool... ironic, since they hate it so much! I have nothing against same sex partnerships of even them as being parents. But I think it is most obvious that there seems to be an awful lot of them about, especially in the media. It could be that it's more acceptable these days, but that is inconsequentail to the fact that they ARE there in great numbers, adding greatly to the culture and music etc. Leave them alone you bible/curan bashing geeks! Religion has led to MORE evolution in that they "separate" the genes of people and lead to the differences we see today, due to mutational changes, being emphasised more as physical traits. They always try to separate groups and this leads to selection forming great variations. In-house marriages will ultimately reduce the variation. A kind of in-breeding. This can result in physical and mental abnormalities; the *symptoms of religion,* so to speak. This is off-set by the religion being forced onto other cultures; genes can then be "brought in through the back door". On the whole religion has no net effect, I would say. It provides changes, but whether they are good or bad needs specific examples to be considered. It certainly reduces variation... which is bad... eg pick any nation and take a good look. This is of course offset a little by the fact that a white person can become a sikh, muslim or christian. But the fact also remains that a white muslim in deepest, darkest Iran would arouse suspicions and be the first to get be-headed, when the **** hits the fan! Just like Germans suffered in the UK during/after the war.... look what happened to the Queen! Griff... "Maam." Bows respectfully to the Crown {not the person, of course, because I don't know her as a person and can't respect her then; but wait a mo. '''the Crown'''....the same crown that enslaved people around the world?!" In that case I won't bow at all then, thanks.

19th June 2007, 08:01 AM	#2
Hourglassmemory Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 315	I know this might sound weird or even ignorant but I wonder if the islamic terrorists killing themselves isn't, in a way, evolution doing its job. I know evolution isn't this monster getting rid of them, or that they aren't fit to live in this world but....I guess when you reach the extreme of killing yourself...it's a state of mind that evolution "choses" not to have around, if you know what I mean. It's hard to explain.