Help on the nature of questioning

Wings · 19th June 2007, 04:45 PM

Hi, I wasn't sure if this went here or in General Skepticsm, so if it needs to be moved, I apologize for the error.

I'm new to skepticsm and critical thinking, after being a woo for a long time. I've been debating at this woo board for a while, and have run into quite a few problems and issues. I hope that I am not intruding on asking for advice and opinions on this issue.

While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems.

Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone?

And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos?

I'm sorry if this post is a bit disorganized and out there, I'm still trying to get a hand on all this. Thank you for your patience with me.

Tanstaafl · 19th June 2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Wings

Hi, I wasn't sure if this went here or in General Skepticsm, so if it needs to be moved, I apologize for the error.

I'm new to skepticsm and critical thinking, after being a woo for a long time. I've been debating at this woo board for a while, and have run into quite a few problems and issues. I hope that I am not intruding on asking for advice and opinions on this issue.

That's what we're here for, in part.

Quote:

While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems.

Well, it's hard to ask a probing question that does not imply some sort of flaw in their reasoning. You could just tell them that yes, you have your own answer, but it could be wrong, and you'd like their answer. But you may be better off just ignoring complaints such as these.

Quote:

Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone?

Well, I can't see the harm in being extra courteous. If it helps to get responses out of them, why not add that little bit extra in?

Quote:

And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos?

Of course, if you're challenging their whole world view. And that's what you're probably doing, or at least you should be. You probably need to grow a little bit thicker skin if you're going to argue in hostile territory. This is the same issue that comes up when some of them come over here. It might help to also encourage them to grow a thicker skin too; it sounds like they get easily offended. I think the best you can do is to keep encouraging them to go back to the issues and facts, and try to keep emotion out of it. And, of course, as much as possible to do the same yourself.

Quote:

I'm sorry if this post is a bit disorganized and out there, I'm still trying to get a hand on all this. Thank you for your patience with me.

I hope this is a little bit of help, but it comes with no warranty.

I give you credit for even trying to argue these things in hostile territory, I have not yet tried it myself.

DanishDynamite · 19th June 2007, 05:26 PM

Yes, it is normal to be met with hostility when you make opinions and especially arguments which are counter to the majority of the onlookers. This should not come as a surprise if you have any experience with Real Life.

I suggest you accept it, grow a thicker skin and hone up on your argumentative skills.

UnrepentantSinner · 19th June 2007, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Wings

While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems.

It's not uncommon to be met with hostility on woo boards because to question and ask for details is wrong in their minds. If anyone makes any assertion there is to be back patting and congratulations all around, not questions or requests for elaboration/evidence. Also those sorts of objections like "you assume the answer already" are just diversions and attempts to derail the conversation. Stick to your guns and ask again.

Originally Posted by Wings

Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone?

Being courteous is always a good idea if you're in hostile territory. But from the sounds of it, they're trying to make you subservient, again, not uncommon for those sorts of sites. Stay cool and keep a level head when you're having your discussions with them. As soon as you start shooting off at the fingers they'll have you where they want.

Originally Posted by Wings

And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos?

Not only is it natural, but it should be expected when dealing with woos. As I noted above most woo forums serve as little more than mutual admiration socieities for the engagement in intellectual diasy-chainery. They can't stand someone upsetting the apple cart and it's natural they'd react with hosility because to them, even asking questions is hostility.

Stay polite and stick with your questions so you don't let them derail the conversation.

Wings · 20th June 2007, 12:59 AM

Thanks for the support guys, and you're right about the thicker skin. I guess I just haven't been experienced enough in this to get used to the tactics.

It seems that the major point is that they feel that questions are disrespectful to their beliefs and that questions can't understand beliefs. This seems to be the typical issue that others encounter when trying to ask questions about their beliefs. They also seem to be implying that I am setting them up to give "the answer that I want" but it's just more evasiveness.

It just seems to me that this is just justification for the fact they don't have good answers and don't want to admit it. I guess I know now why I never thought things through when I was woo. It's sure good to be able to ask questions about my beliefs now.

JoeTheJuggler · 20th June 2007, 11:02 AM

I think as long as you're being sincere, questions are OK. What bugs me is when someone pretends to be asking for information when they're really just setting someone up for a bogus "aha!" or--worse--pushing a claim without having to take responsibility for it. On this forum, I dislike seeing, "I'm a skeptic but how do you explain this?" type of questions. If you sincerely want to make a claim, make it, and be ready to defend it.

The other type of insincerity I see here all the time are Creationists (in their current garb as advocates of ID) asking questions about evolution. If they want to make a challenge, let them do so. No amount of questions (that imply certain things about a theory that they reject) constitutes a legitimate criticism. And it's obvious that they don't believe in the theory of evolution through natural selection and that they aren't interested in learning about it.

So anyway, if you're debating in a woo forum, I'd say just be sincere. I have a friend who goes to various believers things (usually Bible groups) in person to challenge their beliefs, and he is careful to be super-duper extremely polite in every way imaginable.

I just stay away, because I know I'm too hot-headed.

zooloo · 20th June 2007, 11:54 AM

"The Truth cannot be harmed by questioning" - John Stuart Mill... I think

(Capital T used deliberately)

19th June 2007, 04:45 PM	#1
Wings Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 247	Help on the nature of questioning Hi, I wasn't sure if this went here or in General Skepticsm, so if it needs to be moved, I apologize for the error. I'm new to skepticsm and critical thinking, after being a woo for a long time. I've been debating at this woo board for a while, and have run into quite a few problems and issues. I hope that I am not intruding on asking for advice and opinions on this issue. While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems. Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone? And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos? I'm sorry if this post is a bit disorganized and out there, I'm still trying to get a hand on all this. Thank you for your patience with me.
Wings Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 247

19th June 2007, 05:02 PM	#2
Tanstaafl Unindicted Co-conspirator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,622	Originally Posted by Wings Hi, I wasn't sure if this went here or in General Skepticsm, so if it needs to be moved, I apologize for the error. I'm new to skepticsm and critical thinking, after being a woo for a long time. I've been debating at this woo board for a while, and have run into quite a few problems and issues. I hope that I am not intruding on asking for advice and opinions on this issue. That's what we're here for, in part. Quote: While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems. Well, it's hard to ask a probing question that does not imply some sort of flaw in their reasoning. You could just tell them that yes, you have your own answer, but it could be wrong, and you'd like their answer. But you may be better off just ignoring complaints such as these. Quote: Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone? Well, I can't see the harm in being extra courteous. If it helps to get responses out of them, why not add that little bit extra in? Quote: And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos? Of course, if you're challenging their whole world view. And that's what you're probably doing, or at least you should be. You probably need to grow a little bit thicker skin if you're going to argue in hostile territory. This is the same issue that comes up when some of them come over here. It might help to also encourage them to grow a thicker skin too; it sounds like they get easily offended. I think the best you can do is to keep encouraging them to go back to the issues and facts, and try to keep emotion out of it. And, of course, as much as possible to do the same yourself. Quote: I'm sorry if this post is a bit disorganized and out there, I'm still trying to get a hand on all this. Thank you for your patience with me. I hope this is a little bit of help, but it comes with no warranty. I give you credit for even trying to argue these things in hostile territory, I have not yet tried it myself.
	__________________ To forgive is human, to condemn for eternity is divine. -- AudioFreak Truth is where evidence comes from, not where belief leads to. --yy2bggggs Expelled exposed! Sylvia Browne

19th June 2007, 07:40 PM	#4
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,357	Originally Posted by Wings While I was there, a few specific issues have come up. The first one is my question, "Can you ever ask too many questions?" I have noticed that when I have asked questions questioning their opinions, I have been met with hostility, especially from the top-poster. They have stated that it's because "I assume the answer already, and am just setting them up". I don't know if that's true, I merely wanted to know in more detail why they believed what they believed, but yet such questions are taboo, it seems. It's not uncommon to be met with hostility on woo boards because to question and ask for details is wrong in their minds. If anyone makes any assertion there is to be back patting and congratulations all around, not questions or requests for elaboration/evidence. Also those sorts of objections like "you assume the answer already" are just diversions and attempts to derail the conversation. Stick to your guns and ask again. Originally Posted by Wings Another question is, "Must you be courteous while asking questions?" By this I mean they wanted me to put things like "please" and so in my questions, to respect them. Is that necessary to show respect for someone? Being courteous is always a good idea if you're in hostile territory. But from the sounds of it, they're trying to make you subservient, again, not uncommon for those sorts of sites. Stay cool and keep a level head when you're having your discussions with them. As soon as you start shooting off at the fingers they'll have you where they want. Originally Posted by Wings And yet another question is, "Is it natural for someone to be met with hostility with these questions?", by this I mean should I expect this sort of hostility if I start to debate beliefs with others, specifically woos? Not only is it natural, but it should be expected when dealing with woos. As I noted above most woo forums serve as little more than mutual admiration socieities for the engagement in intellectual diasy-chainery. They can't stand someone upsetting the apple cart and it's natural they'd react with hosility because to them, even asking questions is hostility. Stay polite and stick with your questions so you don't let them derail the conversation.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

20th June 2007, 12:59 AM	#5
Wings Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 247	Thanks for the support guys, and you're right about the thicker skin. I guess I just haven't been experienced enough in this to get used to the tactics. It seems that the major point is that they feel that questions are disrespectful to their beliefs and that questions can't understand beliefs. This seems to be the typical issue that others encounter when trying to ask questions about their beliefs. They also seem to be implying that I am setting them up to give "the answer that I want" but it's just more evasiveness. It just seems to me that this is just justification for the fact they don't have good answers and don't want to admit it. I guess I know now why I never thought things through when I was woo. It's sure good to be able to ask questions about my beliefs now.
Wings Thinker Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 247

20th June 2007, 11:02 AM	#6
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,819	I think as long as you're being sincere, questions are OK. What bugs me is when someone pretends to be asking for information when they're really just setting someone up for a bogus "aha!" or--worse--pushing a claim without having to take responsibility for it. On this forum, I dislike seeing, "I'm a skeptic but how do you explain this?" type of questions. If you sincerely want to make a claim, make it, and be ready to defend it. The other type of insincerity I see here all the time are Creationists (in their current garb as advocates of ID) asking questions about evolution. If they want to make a challenge, let them do so. No amount of questions (that imply certain things about a theory that they reject) constitutes a legitimate criticism. And it's obvious that they don't believe in the theory of evolution through natural selection and that they aren't interested in learning about it. So anyway, if you're debating in a woo forum, I'd say just be sincere. I have a friend who goes to various believers things (usually Bible groups) in person to challenge their beliefs, and he is careful to be super-duper extremely polite in every way imaginable. I just stay away, because I know I'm too hot-headed.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

19th June 2007, 05:26 PM	#3
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the cold Posts: 10,802	Yes, it is normal to be met with hostility when you make opinions and especially arguments which are counter to the majority of the onlookers. This should not come as a surprise if you have any experience with Real Life. I suggest you accept it, grow a thicker skin and hone up on your argumentative skills.

20th June 2007, 11:54 AM	#7
zooloo Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Britian Posts: 248	"The Truth cannot be harmed by questioning" - John Stuart Mill... I think (Capital T used deliberately)