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blutoski · 10th July 2007, 04:25 PM

The event happened last week; this is news from the preliminary hearing.

Quote:

A Sydney woman accused of fatally stabbing her father and sister and injuring her mother was denied psychiatric treatment by her parents who were scientologists, a court was told.

I found a couple of articles:

Fnord · 10th July 2007, 04:42 PM

In the interest of clarity, here are the highlights:

The parents are/were Scientologists.

The daughter was diagnosed in 2006 as having a "psychotic illness."

The parents denied psychiatric treatment for their 24-year old daughter, including medicine to relieve the psychotic symptoms.

The denial was made solely on the basis of the parents' religion (Church of Scientology).

The daughter allegedly stabbed her father and sister to death.

The daughter also allegedly stabbed her mother, who survived the attack.

The mother told a neighbor about the attacks, then collapsed.

The daughter later confessed the killings to police.

strathmeyer · 10th July 2007, 07:13 PM

You missed the part where the Church of Scientology claimed these people weren't Scientologists: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2755214

Jackalgirl · 10th July 2007, 07:18 PM

Do you know if the parents had a legal means to deny their daughter medication and/or medical care, or did she just not take it because they didn't want her to? From the article:

[quote=The woman stated that her parents did not want her to take the medication she had been prescribed and apparently started her on medication they obtained from America, which was not psychiatric in nature.[/quote]

Now, the other article states:

Quote:

During an earlier court appearance, it was alleged the woman's parents refused to allow her follow-up treatment after she was diagnosed with a psychotic illness in late 2006.

So maybe I'm wrong. But help me out here -- what is the legal age of majority in Australia? If the daughter had gone to the doctor and asked for help, would the parents legally have been able to ensure that it was denied to her? (I'm quite aware that this might more likely have just been a case of the parents using pressure to prevent the daughter from even asking.)

The Great Hairy One · 10th July 2007, 10:34 PM

It's not to do with the age of consent, but rather with the fact that the girl's parents were her legal guardians due to her being unable to act as a capable and rational adult.

If the woman had gone to the doctor and said "please give me these drugs", the doctor would have been bound by law to contact her guardians and double check with them. This system is to protect the woman from being over-prescribed, or in hurting herself through miss-diagnosis.

Note that the details of the case are still developing. See the thread: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86854

Cheers,
TGHO

Jackalgirl · 10th July 2007, 10:43 PM

Ah! Okay, that was the missing bit. I didn't realize that her parents were legal guardians. Thank you kindly!

wollery · 11th July 2007, 01:58 AM

Parents don't get to make such decisions in the UK, once someone is an adult the shrinks decide. If two psychiatrists agree that a person is a denger to themselves or others then that person will be committed. Family members can appeal in the courts, but a judge would almost certainly go with the advice of the psychiatrists.

Fnord · 11th July 2007, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by wollery

Parents don't get to make such decisions in the UK, once someone is an adult the shrinks decide...

Here in the States, we turn them loose on the streets with a prescription and one of those paper gowns that tie up in the back. Sometimes those people get elected to public office.

wollery · 11th July 2007, 09:42 AM

Actually, thinking about it, I believe that the family can prevent them from being medicated, but not from being institutionalised.

aggle-rithm · 11th July 2007, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Fnord

Here in the States, we turn them loose on the streets with a prescription and one of those paper gowns that tie up in the back. Sometimes those people get elected to public office.

They are sometimes paraded through the court system for the entertainment of us who made the CORRECT lifestyle choice, sanity.

zooloo · 11th July 2007, 11:51 AM

My only thought on this is... "pwnd!"

10th July 2007, 04:25 PM	#1
blutoski Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 6,014	Scientologist parents denied treatment for daughter The event happened last week; this is news from the preliminary hearing. Quote: A Sydney woman accused of fatally stabbing her father and sister and injuring her mother was denied psychiatric treatment by her parents who were scientologists, a court was told. I found a couple of articles: I just butchered my family Scientologist parents denied treatment
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

10th July 2007, 04:42 PM	#2
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	In the interest of clarity, here are the highlights: The parents are/were Scientologists. The daughter was diagnosed in 2006 as having a "psychotic illness." The parents denied psychiatric treatment for their 24-year old daughter, including medicine to relieve the psychotic symptoms. The denial was made solely on the basis of the parents' religion (Church of Scientology). The daughter allegedly stabbed her father and sister to death. The daughter also allegedly stabbed her mother, who survived the attack. The mother told a neighbor about the attacks, then collapsed. The daughter later confessed the killings to police.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.** Last edited by Fnord; 10th July 2007 at 04:46 PM.

10th July 2007, 07:18 PM	#4
Jackalgirl Ping Jockey Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Honshu, Japan Posts: 1,787	Do you know if the parents had a legal means to deny their daughter medication and/or medical care, or did she just not take it because they didn't want her to? From the article: [quote=The woman stated that her parents did not want her to take the medication she had been prescribed and apparently started her on medication they obtained from America, which was not psychiatric in nature.[/quote] Now, the other article states: Quote: During an earlier court appearance, it was alleged the woman's parents refused to allow her follow-up treatment after she was diagnosed with a psychotic illness in late 2006. So maybe I'm wrong. But help me out here -- what is the legal age of majority in Australia? If the daughter had gone to the doctor and asked for help, would the parents legally have been able to ensure that it was denied to her? (I'm quite aware that this might more likely have just been a case of the parents using pressure to prevent the daughter from even asking.)
	__________________ >> "An optimist tells you the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The cynic tells you that someone has been drinking out of your glass." -- Boo I don't like Sylvia Browne

10th July 2007, 10:34 PM	#5
The Great Hairy One Chief Cdr Scientist, NWO Cloning Labs Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,066	It's not to do with the age of consent, but rather with the fact that the girl's parents were her legal guardians due to her being unable to act as a capable and rational adult. If the woman had gone to the doctor and said "please give me these drugs", the doctor would have been bound by law to contact her guardians and double check with them. This system is to protect the woman from being over-prescribed, or in hurting herself through miss-diagnosis. Note that the details of the case are still developing. See the thread: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=86854 Cheers, TGHO
	__________________ High Priest of Gzortch, the Demon Prince of Nostrils

10th July 2007, 10:43 PM	#6
Jackalgirl Ping Jockey Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Honshu, Japan Posts: 1,787	Ah! Okay, that was the missing bit. I didn't realize that her parents were legal guardians. Thank you kindly!
	__________________ >> "An optimist tells you the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The cynic tells you that someone has been drinking out of your glass." -- Boo I don't like Sylvia Browne

10th July 2007, 07:13 PM	#3
strathmeyer seriously unable to be serious Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Posts: 2,382	You missed the part where the Church of Scientology claimed these people weren't Scientologists: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2755214

11th July 2007, 01:58 AM	#7
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,335	Parents don't get to make such decisions in the UK, once someone is an adult the shrinks decide. If two psychiatrists agree that a person is a denger to themselves or others then that person will be committed. Family members can appeal in the courts, but a judge would almost certainly go with the advice of the psychiatrists.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

11th July 2007, 07:55 AM	#8
Fnord Metasyntactic Variable Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6,633	Originally Posted by wollery Parents don't get to make such decisions in the UK, once someone is an adult the shrinks decide... Here in the States, we turn them loose on the streets with a prescription and one of those paper gowns that tie up in the back. Sometimes those people get elected to public office.
	__________________ Belief is the subjective acceptance of a (valid or invalid) concept, opinion, or theory; Faith is the unreasoned belief in improvable things; *and Knowledge* is the reasoned belief in provable things. Belief itself proves nothing.**

11th July 2007, 09:42 AM	#9
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,335	Actually, thinking about it, I believe that the family can prevent them from being medicated, but not from being institutionalised.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

11th July 2007, 09:54 AM	#10
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,303	Originally Posted by Fnord Here in the States, we turn them loose on the streets with a prescription and one of those paper gowns that tie up in the back. Sometimes those people get elected to public office. They are sometimes paraded through the court system for the entertainment of us who made the CORRECT lifestyle choice, sanity.
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

11th July 2007, 11:51 AM	#11
zooloo Thinker Join Date: May 2006 Location: Britian Posts: 248	My only thought on this is... "pwnd!"