More fun times with Toronto 9/11 truth

CHF · 11th July 2007, 11:01 AM

Last months local truther rally had a lot of funny moments. This month’s event, I must say, was just plain sad!

They gathered in front of the CBC building again at 12 pm – all five of them.

There was a kid’s event going on behind them (clowns, tents, free food) with lots of people walking around. They were almost completely ignored.

Only one guy from last month was there. Just as I predicted, he’s spent the past month making a movie. Swell guy, I must say. Very friendly and open to dialogue. He even asked me for feedback and gave me a flier.

He soon went off to hold a banner, but not before introducing me to what could quite possibly be the most useless twoofer on the planet. I didn’t get his name but he claimed to be an electrical engineer from AE911. He even claims to have posted on JREF but found that we were all "***holes."

He started talking about how the top section of the towers should have tipped over. "With the help of which horizontal force?” I asked. “You don’t need one,” he said. “All objects will tip over if the damage is not symetrical.” He then went on to make some awesome comparisons to prove his point. Including:

“If you’re standing on top of a chair and a leg breaks, you’ll tip over.”

“If one leg on a tripod breaks it’ll tip over.”

So why didn’t he write up a paper about this? “I don’t have to, because it’s so obvious.”

We talked about how the structure should have performed when the collapse started. "It should have stopped," he said. Was there a difference between a 50,000 ton static load and a 50,000 ton dynamic load? "Not really."

I asked whether anyone in the movement has had their research peer-reviewed. He said yes. Like who? “Gordon Ross, Steven Jones...” When I pointed out that 911 twoofer sites is not peer-review he then said that peer-review didn’t matter one bit anyway.

And why is peer-review so irrelevant? “Common sense.”

Yup, that’s what it all came down to for this guy. His common sense tells him that there were demolitions on 9/11. “I don’t trust experts,” he said. “If I go to the doctor and he says I need a needle, I say ‘no’.”

So strong was his faith in common sense that he said he had read almost nothing in the way of expert reports. (Although he had read some stuff by Frank Greening, which he dismissed via his common sense).

Despite not trusting experts he did try to pull a few out of the hat nonetheless. He brought up Jowenko as his demolition pro but Danny’s take on the towers didn’t matter cuz they were non-conventional demolitions. So how does he spot a non-conventional demolition? “Common sense.” He also said he’d talked to a structural engineer with a PHD who said it was “obvious” that the towers were demolitions. Wouldn’t tell me what his name was though.

I asked Mr. Common Sense what caused the exterior beams to bend inwards along the WTC’s facade prior to collapse. He didn’t know, but suggested thermite. He had no clue how thermite would burn sideways and or how it even made the beams bend but his inability to explain away NIST’s collapse mechanism was no big deal because he had common sense.

I asked him why the demolition charges in the towers made no rapid sequence of really loud bangs. “Cuz the sound was bouncing off all the other buildings creating the dull roar that we heard.” Did he have a demolition expert backing up this hilarious claim? Yes, but he wouldn’t name him.

I brought the topic back to peer-review and asked why twoofers are so reluctant to submit their research. “If it’s so obvious then why not submit it?” I asked. “Surely you agree that passing peer-review is a tremendous boost.” His answer: “We know that the CIA does illegal things so why aren’t they arrested?”

That was enough of Mr. Common Sense so I moved on to a guy who looked like he was from a biker gang. I asked him about peer-review and why twoofers are so scared of it. “The universities and journals are all controlled,” was his explanation for the lack of twoofer papers. As for NIST, “they should all have their PHD’s revoked and should be arrested and tried for treason.” One of his main pieces of demolition evidence was molten metal. What caused it? “Thermite.” But it cools off quickly. “Not if you use a lot.” How much? “A lot.”

A woman then told him to stop talking to me. I laughed and headed back to work.

About the only accurate statement of the hour was made by Mr. Common Sense. When it comes to twoofer evidence, he said: “I don’t think you’ll see anything new.”

T.A.M. · 11th July 2007, 11:14 AM

Mr. Commondense is more like it.

TAM

scissorhands · 11th July 2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

He soon went off to hold a banner, but not before introducing me to what could quite possibly be the most useless twoofer on the planet. I didn’t get his name but he claimed to be an electrical engineer from AE911. He even claims to have posted on JREF but found that we were all "***holes."

Useless electrical engineer from AE911 sounds familiar.
Doug Plumb?

CHF · 11th July 2007, 12:00 PM

I just realized that Mr. Common Sense is the same guy who wore the "Silverstein: pull it" T-shirt last month.

He was a gold mine of idiocy then to.

CHF · 11th July 2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by scissorhands

Useless electrical engineer from AE911 sounds familiar.
Doug Plumb?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

http://9-11.meetup.com/282/members/4083847/

BTW, the guy from last month was not Plumb. He was silly enough for me to confuse the two though.

Horatius · 11th July 2007, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

Last months local truther rally had a lot of funny moments. This month’s event, I must say, was just plain sad!

They gathered in front of the CBC building again at 12 pm – all five of them.

All five of them....when they had 16 RSVP as "yes" and 9 as "maybe". So out of 25 who thought they'd make it, they got 20%.

http://9-11.meetup.com/282/calendar/5872169/

And out of allegedly 101 members they only had RSVPs for 32......

CHF · 11th July 2007, 04:09 PM

Horatius, to be fair some might have shown up later. Either way, it was still a pretty sad spectacle.

BillyRayValentine · 11th July 2007, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

http://9-11.meetup.com/282/members/4083847/

BTW, the guy from last month was not Plumb. He was silly enough for me to confuse the two though.

Funny stuff.

I actually registered for ae911truth recently, just to test it out, and I received an email from good 'ole Doug in response. He made it clear that they were implementing a new, more stringent credentials verification process. He asked me to "send us a fax that shows you are a real structural engineer. This could be some letterhead, a degree, professional license or anything else that leaves no doubt."

Yes indeed, a fax on some letterhead, a fax of a degree plucked from the internet or the like - that surely would remove all doubt, wouldn't it!

Those clowns are priceless.

P.S. Doug may have an undergraduate degree in EE, but I believe he works as a sound engineer.

Horatius · 11th July 2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

Horatius, to be fair some might have shown up later. Either way, it was still a pretty sad spectacle.

Screw being fair

These guys are just as bad as the US twoofers, just more.....Canadianly pathetic, I guess...

I looked into one of their member's homepages, just as a lark, and it turns out they're into all sorts of other woo:

Quote:

To figure out a way to let people see things for what they are, such as: 1) the drug and pharmaceutical industry is either creating the diseases themselves or they’re keeping us from the cures; 2) there is free energy technology in existence; 3) 9/11 was an inside job; and 4) that there is a better way to go about our lives while prospering.

They also had a link to a Canadian tax protester site that I debunked with about 2 minutes of Googling.....

Maybe I'm just grumpy today, but I'm not in the mood to give these sorts of people the benefit of the doubt right now.

BeAChooser · 11th July 2007, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by BillyRayValentine

Doug may have an undergraduate degree in EE, but I believe he works as a sound engineer.

http://socialism.meetup.com/cities/c...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Socialists like Doug Plumb…"

http://personhood.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti Corp Personhood Advocates like Doug Plumb…"

http://stoppatriotact.meetup.com/cit...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Stop the Patriot Act Advocates like Doug Plumb…"

http://conspiracy.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Conspiracists like Doug Plumb…"

http://globalization.meetup.com/citi...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti-Globalization Activists like Doug Plumb…"

BillyRayValentine · 11th July 2007, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by BeAChooser

http://socialism.meetup.com/cities/c...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Socialists like Doug Plumb…"

http://personhood.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti Corp Personhood Advocates like Doug Plumb…"

http://stoppatriotact.meetup.com/cit...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Stop the Patriot Act Advocates like Doug Plumb…"

http://conspiracy.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Conspiracists like Doug Plumb…"

http://globalization.meetup.com/citi...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti-Globalization Activists like Doug Plumb…"

So...you're saying there's no reason to doubt Dougie's objectivity regarding 9/11.

I gotcha, loud and clear.

BeAChooser · 11th July 2007, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by BillyRayValentine

So...you're saying there's no reason to doubt Dougie's objectivity regarding 9/11.

Actually, I was just wondering when he finds the time to work.

fitzgibbon · 11th July 2007, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by CHF

[size=3]

And why is peer-review so irrelevant? “Common sense.”

Gord_in_Toronto · 11th July 2007, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by fitzgibbon

We Don't Want No Revolution.

The Silver Shadow · 11th August 2007, 10:28 PM

Taste of the Danforth was on this weekend and at the entranceway into the road where all the festivities were taking place, I counted 4 truthers, 2 of which were holding a banner saying "9/11 was an inside job" and the other two holding up signs. One of them was holding up a sign saying "Google WTC7" and I decided to have a bit of fun with him. Here's the excerpt of our convo:

Quote:

Me: Are you saying that Google has an office in WTC 7?
Him: No, we are saying that WTC7 was an inside job by the US government.
Me: So are you saying that the US government blew up WTC 7 (his hopes go up here, but then I add...), but with the help of Google?
Him: NO! Google had nothing to do with WTC7?
Me: Then why are you accusing a search engine of destroying a building?
Him: I'm not saying that Google destroyed WTC7, I'm saying the US government did...
Me: ...but with the help of Google, right?
Him: <just walks away, and I think I heard him utter under his breath "disinfo agent">

11th July 2007, 11:01 AM	#1
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	More fun times with Toronto 9/11 truth Last months local truther rally had a lot of funny moments. This month’s event, I must say, was just plain sad! They gathered in front of the CBC building again at 12 pm – all five of them. There was a kid’s event going on behind them (clowns, tents, free food) with lots of people walking around. They were almost completely ignored. Only one guy from last month was there. Just as I predicted, he’s spent the past month making a movie. Swell guy, I must say. Very friendly and open to dialogue. He even asked me for feedback and gave me a flier. He soon went off to hold a banner, but not before introducing me to what could quite possibly be the most useless twoofer on the planet. I didn’t get his name but he claimed to be an electrical engineer from AE911. He even claims to have posted on JREF but found that we were all "***holes." He started talking about how the top section of the towers should have tipped over. "With the help of which horizontal force?” I asked. “You don’t need one,” he said. “All objects will tip over if the damage is not symetrical.” He then went on to make some awesome comparisons to prove his point. Including: “If you’re standing on top of a chair and a leg breaks, you’ll tip over.” “If one leg on a tripod breaks it’ll tip over.” So why didn’t he write up a paper about this? “I don’t have to, because it’s so obvious.” We talked about how the structure should have performed when the collapse started. "It should have stopped," he said. Was there a difference between a 50,000 ton static load and a 50,000 ton dynamic load? "Not really." I asked whether anyone in the movement has had their research peer-reviewed. He said yes. Like who? “Gordon Ross, Steven Jones...” When I pointed out that 911 twoofer sites is not peer-review he then said that peer-review didn’t matter one bit anyway. And why is peer-review so irrelevant? “Common sense.” Yup, that’s what it all came down to for this guy. His common sense tells him that there were demolitions on 9/11. “I don’t trust experts,” he said. “If I go to the doctor and he says I need a needle, I say ‘no’.” So strong was his faith in common sense that he said he had read almost nothing in the way of expert reports. (Although he had read some stuff by Frank Greening, which he dismissed via his common sense). Despite not trusting experts he did try to pull a few out of the hat nonetheless. He brought up Jowenko as his demolition pro but Danny’s take on the towers didn’t matter cuz they were non-conventional demolitions. So how does he spot a non-conventional demolition? “Common sense.” He also said he’d talked to a structural engineer with a PHD who said it was “obvious” that the towers were demolitions. Wouldn’t tell me what his name was though. I asked Mr. Common Sense what caused the exterior beams to bend inwards along the WTC’s facade prior to collapse. He didn’t know, but suggested thermite. He had no clue how thermite would burn sideways and or how it even made the beams bend but his inability to explain away NIST’s collapse mechanism was no big deal because he had common sense. I asked him why the demolition charges in the towers made no rapid sequence of really loud bangs. “Cuz the sound was bouncing off all the other buildings creating the dull roar that we heard.” Did he have a demolition expert backing up this hilarious claim? Yes, but he wouldn’t name him. I brought the topic back to peer-review and asked why twoofers are so reluctant to submit their research. “If it’s so obvious then why not submit it?” I asked. “Surely you agree that passing peer-review is a tremendous boost.” His answer: “We know that the CIA does illegal things so why aren’t they arrested?” That was enough of Mr. Common Sense so I moved on to a guy who looked like he was from a biker gang. I asked him about peer-review and why twoofers are so scared of it. “The universities and journals are all controlled,” was his explanation for the lack of twoofer papers. As for NIST, “they should all have their PHD’s revoked and should be arrested and tried for treason.” One of his main pieces of demolition evidence was molten metal. What caused it? “Thermite.” But it cools off quickly. “Not if you use a lot.” How much? “A lot.” A woman then told him to stop talking to me. I laughed and headed back to work. About the only accurate statement of the hour was made by Mr. Common Sense. When it comes to twoofer evidence, he said: “I don’t think you’ll see anything new.”
	Last edited by CHF; 11th July 2007 at 11:15 AM.

11th July 2007, 03:02 PM	#6
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 21,889	Originally Posted by CHF Last months local truther rally had a lot of funny moments. This month’s event, I must say, was just plain sad! They gathered in front of the CBC building again at 12 pm – all five of them. All five of them....when they had 16 RSVP as "yes" and 9 as "maybe". So out of 25 who thought they'd make it, they got 20%. http://9-11.meetup.com/282/calendar/5872169/ And out of allegedly 101 members they only had RSVPs for 32......
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

11th July 2007, 04:27 PM	#9
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 21,889	Originally Posted by CHF Horatius, to be fair some might have shown up later. Either way, it was still a pretty sad spectacle. Screw being fair These guys are just as bad as the US twoofers, just more.....Canadianly pathetic, I guess... I looked into one of their member's homepages, just as a lark, and it turns out they're into all sorts of other woo: Quote: To figure out a way to let people see things for what they are, such as: 1) the drug and pharmaceutical industry is either creating the diseases themselves or they’re keeping us from the cures; 2) there is free energy technology in existence; 3) 9/11 was an inside job; and 4) that there is a better way to go about our lives while prospering. They also had a link to a Canadian tax protester site that I debunked with about 2 minutes of Googling..... Maybe I'm just grumpy today, but I'm not in the mood to give these sorts of people the benefit of the doubt right now.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

11th July 2007, 04:44 PM	#10
BeAChooser Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,716	Originally Posted by BillyRayValentine Doug may have an undergraduate degree in EE, but I believe he works as a sound engineer. http://socialism.meetup.com/cities/c...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Socialists like Doug Plumb…" http://personhood.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti Corp Personhood Advocates like Doug Plumb…" http://stoppatriotact.meetup.com/cit...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Stop the Patriot Act Advocates like Doug Plumb…" http://conspiracy.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Conspiracists like Doug Plumb…" http://globalization.meetup.com/citi...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti-Globalization Activists like Doug Plumb…"
BeAChooser Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,716

11th July 2007, 05:12 PM	#12
BeAChooser Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,716	Originally Posted by BillyRayValentine So...you're saying there's no reason to doubt Dougie's objectivity regarding 9/11. Actually, I was just wondering when he finds the time to work.
BeAChooser Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,716

11th July 2007, 11:14 AM	#2
T.A.M. Keeper of the Kool-Vax Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Far East...of Canada Posts: 20,816	Mr. Commondense is more like it. TAM

11th July 2007, 11:27 AM	#3
scissorhands Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,537	Quote: He soon went off to hold a banner, but not before introducing me to what could quite possibly be the most useless twoofer on the planet. I didn’t get his name but he claimed to be an electrical engineer from AE911. He even claims to have posted on JREF but found that we were all "***holes." Useless electrical engineer from AE911 sounds familiar. Doug Plumb?

11th July 2007, 12:00 PM	#4
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	I just realized that Mr. Common Sense is the same guy who wore the "Silverstein: pull it" T-shirt last month. He was a gold mine of idiocy then to.

11th July 2007, 02:42 PM	#5
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	Originally Posted by scissorhands Useless electrical engineer from AE911 sounds familiar. Doug Plumb? Ding ding ding! We have a winner! http://9-11.meetup.com/282/members/4083847/ BTW, the guy from last month was not Plumb. He was silly enough for me to confuse the two though.

11th July 2007, 04:09 PM	#7
CHF Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,875	Horatius, to be fair some might have shown up later. Either way, it was still a pretty sad spectacle.

11th July 2007, 04:18 PM	#8
BillyRayValentine Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 329	Originally Posted by CHF Ding ding ding! We have a winner! http://9-11.meetup.com/282/members/4083847/ BTW, the guy from last month was not Plumb. He was silly enough for me to confuse the two though. Funny stuff. I actually registered for ae911truth recently, just to test it out, and I received an email from good 'ole Doug in response. He made it clear that they were implementing a new, more stringent credentials verification process. He asked me to "send us a fax that shows you are a real structural engineer. This could be some letterhead, a degree, professional license or anything else that leaves no doubt." Yes indeed, a fax on some letterhead, a fax of a degree plucked from the internet or the like - that surely would remove all doubt, wouldn't it! Those clowns are priceless. P.S. Doug may have an undergraduate degree in EE, but I believe he works as a sound engineer.

11th July 2007, 04:50 PM	#11
BillyRayValentine Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 329	Originally Posted by BeAChooser http://socialism.meetup.com/cities/c...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Socialists like Doug Plumb…" http://personhood.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti Corp Personhood Advocates like Doug Plumb…" http://stoppatriotact.meetup.com/cit...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Stop the Patriot Act Advocates like Doug Plumb…" http://conspiracy.meetup.com/cities/...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Conspiracists like Doug Plumb…" http://globalization.meetup.com/citi...83847/?ic=sn42 "Here are 2 ways to meet Toronto Anti-Globalization Activists like Doug Plumb…" So...you're saying there's no reason to doubt Dougie's objectivity regarding 9/11. I gotcha, loud and clear.

11th July 2007, 09:12 PM	#13
fitzgibbon Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Just west of the centre of the universe Posts: 2,539	Originally Posted by CHF [size=3] And why is peer-review so irrelevant? “Common sense.” Remember the last guys in Ontario that wrapped themselves in "Common Sense"©? No relation I don't suppose.

11th July 2007, 09:55 PM	#14
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,415	Originally Posted by fitzgibbon Remember the last guys in Ontario that wrapped themselves in "Common Sense"©? No relation I don't suppose. We Don't Want No Revolution.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

11th August 2007, 10:28 PM	#15
The Silver Shadow Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Physically, Toronto; Mentally, Monte Carlo Posts: 1,063	Taste of the Danforth was on this weekend and at the entranceway into the road where all the festivities were taking place, I counted 4 truthers, 2 of which were holding a banner saying "9/11 was an inside job" and the other two holding up signs. One of them was holding up a sign saying "Google WTC7" and I decided to have a bit of fun with him. Here's the excerpt of our convo: Quote: Me: Are you saying that Google has an office in WTC 7? Him: No, we are saying that WTC7 was an inside job by the US government. Me: So are you saying that the US government blew up WTC 7 (his hopes go up here, but then I add...), but with the help of Google? Him: NO! Google had nothing to do with WTC7? Me: Then why are you accusing a search engine of destroying a building? Him: I'm not saying that Google destroyed WTC7, I'm saying the US government did... Me: ...but with the help of Google, right? Him: <just walks away, and I think I heard him utter under his breath "disinfo agent">
	__________________ I've accomplished more without film school than most people, such as yourself, will EVER accomplish. Period. Jealousy is a bitch, and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but don't spew ******** like that and expect to not be corrected. This is why you were banned from my forums in the first place. - Dylan Avery on the budget of his film.