The "N-Word": So Offensive, You Not Only Can't Say It, You Can't Even Talk About It

[BPSCG]

Link

Quote:

Montgomery County educators are replacing a lesson that called for students to read about and discuss a racial epithet against African Americans as a precursor to reading "To Kill a Mockingbird" in ninth-grade English classes.

The lesson, called "Questionable Words," focused on two reading selections, an essay and a poem, each dealing with the epithet and how the author was hurt by its use. Curriculum officials reexamined the lesson after an African American student told the school board in the fall that the class had upset her.

Quote:

The complaint from Maya Jean-Baptiste, a 15-year-old at Quince Orchard High School in Gaithersburg, marks a departure from the usual protest of racially insensitive language in classroom literature. Most often, someone seeks to ban a book; Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" is a perennial target. In this case, the student objected to an introductory lesson whose purpose was to prepare her for the racist language in the book.

Maya said she walked into English class one day in the fall to find the desks arranged in a semicircle. The teacher passed out copies of an essay called "The Meaning of a Word," by the African American writer Gloria Naylor, which recounted the first time the author heard a young classmate use the "N-word." Maya's class was preparing to read Harper Lee's coming-of-age saga.

[ImaginalDisc]

Don't even get me started on this crap of a policy about the N-word. Any grade school American Literature education that doesn't include The Adventures of Hucklberry Finn is no education at all.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I've reported your post, Beeps.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

We read a lot of n-bleeps in African-American poetry.

But I also live in a fairly racist town, so clearly doing so made us more racist .

[Charlie Monoxide]

How can I describe the title of one of my favorite books from the 60's written by Dick Gregory? In fact, on the cover, it had a blurb "Momma, if you ever hear the word (the n-word), just imagine they're advertising my book.

The word is racist is some contexts, but not all. This really seems like an exercise of emulating the "1984" thought police.

Charlie (can't take back thoughts and ideas) Monoxide

[steverino]

http://www.twainquotes.com/18650719t.html

Territorial Enterprise, July 7-19, 1865

[portion of letter from San Francisco describing black marchers in Fourth of July celebration]

MARK TWAIN ON THE COLORED MAN

And at the fag-end of the procession was a long double file of the proudest, happiest scoundrels I saw yesterday - *******. Or perhaps I should say "them damned *******," which is the other name they go by now. They did all it was in their power to do, poor devils, to modify the prominence of the contrast between black and white faces which seems so hateful to their white fellow-creatures, by putting their lightest colored darkies in the front rank, then glooming down by some unaggravating and nicely graduated shades of darkness to the fell and dismal blackness of undefiled and unalloyed ******dom in the remote extremity of the procession. It was a fine stroke of strategy - the day was dusty and no man could tell where the white folks left off and the ******* began. The "damned naygurs" - this is another descriptive title which has been conferred upon them by a class of our fellow-citizens who persist, in the most short-sighted manner, in being on bad terms with them in the face of the fact that they have got to sing with them in heaven or scorch with them in hell some day in the most familiar and sociable way, and on a footing of most perfect equality - the "damned naygurs," I say, smiled one broad, extravagant, powerful smile of grateful thankfulness and profound and perfect happiness from the beginning of the march to the end; and through this vast, black, drifting cloud of smiles their white teeth glimmered fitfully like heat-lightning on a summer's night. If a white man honored them with a smile in return, they were utterly overcome, and fell to bowing like Oriental devotees, and attempting the most extravagant and impossible smiles, reckless of lock-jaw. They might as well have left their hats at home, for they never put them on. I was rather irritated at the idea of letting these fellows march in the procession myself, at first, but I would have scorned to harbor so small a thought if I had known the privilege was going to do them so much good. There seemed to be a religious-benevolent society among them with a banner - the only one in the colored ranks, I believe - and all hands seemed to take boundless pride in it. The banner had a picture on it, but I could not exactly get the hang of its significance. It presented a very black and uncommonly sick looking ******, in bed, attended by two other ******* - one reading the Bible to him and the other one handing him a plate of oysters; but what the very mischief this blending of contraband dissolution, raw oysters and Christian consolation, could possibly be symbolical of, was more than I could make out.

[reprinted in The Works of Mark Twain; Early Tales & Sketches, Vol. 2 1864-1865, (Univ. of California Press, 1981), pp. 248-49.]
Available from amazon.com

I find it shocking that here he uses the words "fag" and "Oriental." Shame on him.

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by ImaginalDisc

Don't even get me started on this crap of a policy about the N-word. Any grade school American Literature education that doesn't include The Adventures of Hucklberry Finn is no education at all.

OMG, ID and I actually agree on something.

Well, except that I think grade school is a little early for The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

But anyone who talks about banning it clearly has not read it - or has, and is too stupid to live - because the runaway slave Jim is the noblest character in the book, and Huck's discovery of that fact, along with his discovery that people can be garbage wrapped in skin even if they're white, is one of the central points of the book.

[tsg]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how you teach the harms of racism by pretending it never happened.

[ImaginalDisc]

Originally Posted by tsg

Someone is going to have to explain to me how you teach the harms of racism by pretending it never happened.

Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it in remedial classes.

[BPSCG]

This story has a certain Monty Python quality to it:

HEAD KNIGHT: Then, when you have found the shrubbery, you must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest... with... a herring!
[dramatic chord]
ARTHUR: We shall do no such thing!
HEAD KNIGHT: Oh, please!
ARTHUR: Cut down a tree with a herring? It can't be done.
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh! Aaaugh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Don't say that word.
ARTHUR: What word?
HEAD KNIGHT: I cannot tell, suffice to say is one of the words the Knights of Nee cannot hear.
ARTHUR: How can we not say the word if you don't tell us what it is?
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh! Aaaugh!
ARTHUR: What, `is'?
HEAD KNIGHT: No, not `is' -- we couldn't get very far in life not saying `is'.
BEDEVIR: My liege, it's Sir Robin!
MINSTREL (singing): (singing): Packing it in and packing it up
And sneaking away and buggering up
And chickening out and pissing about
Yes, bravely he is throwing in the sponge
ARTHUR: Oh, Robin!
ROBIN: My liege! It's good to see you!
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh!
HEAD KNIGHT: He said the word!
ARTHUR: Surely you've not given up your quest for the Holy Grail?
MINSTREL (singing): He is sneaking away and buggering up--
ROBIN: Shut up! No, no no-- far from it.
HEAD KNIGHT: He said the word again!
ROBIN: I was looking for it.
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh!
ROBIN: Uh, here, here in this forest.
ARTHUR: No, it is far from--
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Aaaaugh! Stop saying the word!
ARTHUR: Oh, stop it!
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh!
HEAD KNIGHT: Oh! He said it again!
ARTHUR: Patsy!
HEAD KNIGHT: Aaugh! I said it! I said it! Ooh! I said it again!
KNIGHTS: Aaaaugh!

[Rob Lister]

Originally Posted by tsg

Someone is going to have to explain to me how you teach the harms of racism by pretending it never happened.

Actually, to the dominate racist, the harms of racism are few. It's enlightenment that gets you.

[Alt+F4]

Now that's one smart kid. Wanna get out of reading some boring book written like hundreds of years ago when people spoke that hard English? Just be offended!

[skeptifem]

I never got a chance to read it in school. Most of the books we did have to read were total garbage. One I remember was about a woman in medieval times who didnt want to get married and was as independant as she could be back then (sort of rebellious and questioning of everything), and yeah the last chapter of the book was her falling in love with some guy and changing her mind. barf. what the hell kind of lesson is that?

the books i read on my own were a lot better.

there was a good family guy joke about that though, where he demanded to be called 'n-word jim'. i lol'd.

[TragicMonkey]

Hmm. The word is offensive, sure. Discussion of the offensiveness of the word is now offensive? Okay. So next, discussing the offensiveness of the offensiveness of the word will be itself offensive.

Therefore, this entire thread is highly offensive, and any other thread discussing this thread will be offensive, too. And any thread discussing that thread, and so on, forever!

Oh heck, I'll just go ahead and offend everybody and get myself banned:
Nebraska!

There, I've said it!


eta: WTF? How did a popup thingy on "banned" decide to materialize? Does it always happen? Ray-Ban sunglasses! Banned in Boston! Bannisters! Ban brand deodorant!

[tsg]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Hmm. The word is offensive, sure. Discussion of the offensiveness of the word is now offensive? Okay. So next, discussing the offensiveness of the offensiveness of the word will be itself offensive.

Not only that, but the discussion of the discussion of the offensiveness of the word will be offensive, as will the discussion of the discussion of the discussion of the offensiveness of the word, and the discussion of the offensiveness of the discussion of the word, and the offensiveness of the disccussion of the discussion of the offensive....

Ow.

I think I hurt my brain.

I need to have a lie down.

[Snide]

Originally Posted by tsg

Not only that, but the discussion of the discussion of the offensiveness of the word will be offensive, as will the discussion of the discussion of the discussion of the offensiveness of the word, and the discussion of the offensiveness of the discussion of the word, and the offensiveness of the disccussion of the discussion of the offensive....

Ow.

I think I hurt my brain.

I need to have a lie down.

No offense, but I'm offended.

[ImaginalDisc]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Ban brand deodorant!

The best defense is a good offensive body odor.

[mhaze]

For a Real Shock read Joseph Conrad, Tales of the South Seas.

Then realize he used the N word with reference to Soloman Islanders ...

Asian....cannibals.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Quote:

The teacher, who is white, read aloud from the essay and asked students to mark the word each time it appeared. She imitated stereotypical African American body language and elocution, Maya told board members, "moving her neck and pointing her finger."

"She has a different style of teaching things," Maya said, "and we knew she was a little over the top on some lessons. But this was not a lesson to be over the top about."

WTF???

Something tells me Maya is going to be in for a lot of disappointment in life.

[slingblade]

There's a device above every door in every school that, upon your entrance, sucks out your brains.

That has to be it.

[billydkid]

deleted comment. somebody beat me too it.

[Tricky]

Originally Posted by mhaze

For a Real Shock read Joseph Conrad, Tales of the South Seas.

Then realize he used the N word with reference to Soloman Islanders ...

Asian....cannibals.

Yeah, Joseph Conrad is problematic. What are they going to do, ban him from the card catalogue?

[MelBrooksfan]

But they buried the N-Word.

[Schneibster]

Beeps starts another thread about how wrong it is for people to object to language used to keep them down. If I thought Beeps had ever had to live as a member of such a group, I might actually listen. As it stands, it sounds like more conservative whining to me. I think that's what I really dislike about conservatives; having to listen to them incessantly whine.

[egslim]

Originally Posted by Schneibster

Beeps starts another thread about how wrong it is for people to object to language used to keep them down.

Wrong. The thread is about people who object to language used to teach kids how bad racism is, because it hurts people.

In a multicultural society people will at times feel offended by others, because what's normal in one culture isn't in another. If you support multiculturalism you should therefore grow a skin.

[Schneibster]

Like I said; the worst thing about conservatives is having to listen to them whine.

[egslim]

Originally Posted by Schneibster

Like I said; the worst thing about conservatives is having to listen to them whine.

So you have no real counterargument, at most an argumentum ad hominem - assuming you consider me a conservative and my post whining, and even that is somewhat unclear.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Link

A girl is sensitive about discussions of a pejorative word and you appear to have a problem with that (presumption because of the title of this thread) but you chose to call people names on a subject you find sensitive and that is apparently OK.

Who used the word hypocrisy? How dare they.

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

A girl is sensitive about discussions of a pejorative word.....

....without reasoning why; without thinking about it. She's apparently being sensitive to any use of the word. This is, to spare your own sensitivities, a negative thing in the furthering of her own education, if for no other reason.

Quote:

and you appear to have a problem with that (presumption because of the title of this thread) but you chose to call people names on a subject you find sensitive and that is apparently OK.

Who used the word hypocrisy? How dare they.

Ad hom, thy name is tu quoque.

[Oliver]

In Germany we have the old word Ne*er. I wonder if this word is considered as profanity in here, even if it's no vulgar word at all:

Der Ne*er

n. black, darkey, black person; (Anthropology) African-American; member of a Black or dark-skinned African race

[BPSCG]

Originally Posted by Tricky

Yeah, Joseph Conrad is problematic. What are they going to do, ban him from the card catalogue?

Heh. I clicked on your link, knowing which title would come up. What surprised me was that the URL at the top of the page showed this:

http://www.amazon.com/******-Narciss...4379732&sr=8-1

Looks like Amazon's auto-censor bans the word even in a URL, though it hasn't figured out a way to do it in a graphic of the book itself.

[Oliver]

Originally Posted by BPSCG

Heh. I clicked on your link, knowing which title would come up. What surprised me was that the URL at the top of the page showed this:

http://www.amazon.com/******-Narciss...4379732&sr=8-1

Looks like Amazon's auto-censor bans the word even in a URL, though it hasn't figured out a way to do it in a graphic of the book itself.

And you thought we have a hard time with censorship in Germany?

The whole censorship in America looks pretty exaggerated, not matter if the N-, A-, M-, S-, F- or C- Word. From what I've learned, it's an Issue of a "new" social behavior concerning swear-words being used as common words, which required this kind of censorship.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Originally Posted by slingblade

....without reasoning why; without thinking about it. She's apparently being sensitive to any use of the word. This is, to spare your own sensitivities, a negative thing in the furthering of her own education, if for no other reason.



Ad hom, thy name is tu quoque.

How do you know she didn't think about it or is that just your presumption? I understand she was sensitive to the context.

Could I suggest that if BPSCG as a result of oversensitivity feels it is appropriate to call people names without fair reason and then criticises others for being over sensitive, highlighting the hypocrisy can be considered fair comment. N'est ce pas?

[slingblade]

Originally Posted by E.J.Armstrong

How do you know she didn't think about it or is that just your presumption? I understand she was sensitive to the context.

Could I suggest that if BPSCG calls people similarly offensive names without fair reason and then criticises others for doing something similar highlighting the hypocrisy can be considered fair comment. N'est ce pas?

It wasn't about being called names, but about learning the history behind a name and discussing that history and its ramifications in the present.

As a matter of fact, I recently helped teach Huckleberry Finn in a high school literature class. The tension was quite high at first, considering there was only one black student in the room, and around 25 in the whole high school population of 1600. But still, we had those discussions about the word, Twain's use of it, and the use of it through the last hundred or so years.

We had kids who started out saying "I don't see anything wrong with it; people are too sensitive." By the end of our discussions, many of these kids had changed some of their opinions about this and other words. This could not have happened without discussion. Discussion couldn't have happened if the word had been banned entirely.

If the lesson wasn't being taught properly, in a way that minimized spurious offensiveness and encouraged thoughtful dialogue, then that's one thing. But if the objection is simply to having the word uttered or read, in any context, then that's wrong. It isn't healthy. When you sweep the dirt under the rug, the floor is still dirty.

[egslim]

Originally Posted by Oliver

In Germany we have the old word Ne*er. I wonder if this word is considered as profanity in here, even if it's no vulgar word at all:

Der Ne*er

n. black, darkey, black person; (Anthropology) African-American; member of a Black or dark-skinned African race

"Neger", which is also a Dutch word, corresponds better with "Negro".

Usage of the word "black" is considered rascist in the US by some. The Dutch translation is "zwarte". There are a few here who consider that word rascist too, but in Flanders "zwarte" is an insult referring to "fascist" or "collaborator". (Since Nazi-supporters during WWII often wore black.)

I find it funny that two translations of exactly the same word are both considered insulting for different reasons. Imagine someone from Flanders calling a white fascist from the US "black".

[Zep]

I am aware of the derivation of the word (from the Niger River, on the west coast of Africa), and I have enough knowledge of the history such that I can understand why it is considered a pejorative. But I'm failing to see why it should become a non-word in the same way that closed religious communities shun transgressors. In fact it now seems to be reserved exclusively for use by African-Americans, which is a bit ironic to this outsider.

I feel that it is not the word itself that is the problem. If you are a student of, say, Tudor court documents, you would probably find the sort of words and language that, today, would only get used in blue stand-up comedy venues or by tattooed truckers. That is, our use of some words has changed and moderated in response to their implied meaning. Our conventions have changed.

Which is sad. Fancy children not being able to read Twain, especially something like Tom Sawyer which is fabulous boys'-own-adventure stuff even today, merely because Twain used words in the 1800's that we conventionally don't allow the use of now. Would you censor or restrict the study of Tudor court documents in the same way, for the same reasons? I am betting not.

[robinson]

Hey, lets go back and edit out ALL the words we don't like.

[Kerberos]

Originally Posted by robinson

***, lets go back and **** out ALL the ***** we don't like.

Hey you! There are children reading this forum. I have modified you post to conform to a child friendly standards, but I suggest you watch you steps in the future!

[bignickel]

Posted by robinson
"Hey, lets go SNIP and SNIP out ALL the SNIP we don't SNIP"

Snipped

[robinson]

Originally Posted by Kerberos

Hey you! There are ******** ******* this forum. I have ******** you post to ******* to a ***** ******** standards, but I ******* you watch you ***** in the future!