Montana Vortex and House of Mystery

MattusMaximus · 16th July 2007, 04:59 PM

Howdy all,

Has anyone gone to the Montana Vortex?

www.montanavortex.com

My wife and I went last August (2006) because I just wanted to see their tilted house. Little did we know that they were going to try convincing us that all their loony claims were real! Little did they know that I had a Masters degree in physics and my wife had a Masters degree in geophysics - big mistake on their part

While there I met the infamous Nick Nelson, and we challenged both he and the proprietors of this place about all their claims. I even went so far as to do some on-the-spot measurements and debunking. Their claims are all easily explained through an understanding of optical illusions and other effects of light. Of course, power of suggestion is rampant as well.

In case anyone is interested I can provide you with my notes, photos, and a brief synopsis that I wrote up about the experience. And if you every happen to be out that way in Montana, feel free to drop by the Vortex and enjoy the freakshow.

Does anyone know how I can submit my "skeptical research" to Randi so that perhaps he'd post it on his regular updates on www.randi.org ?

Cheers - Mattus

RSLancastr · 16th July 2007, 05:01 PM

Hi Mattus.

Randi did a few articles on another one of the "Vortex" tourist traps a few months back.

You can email him at randi@randi.org.

Babylon Sister · 16th July 2007, 05:23 PM

I'd be willing to wager that the Montana HofM looks exactly like the HofM at the Oregon Vortex and the house at the Cosmos Mystery Area in Rapid City, SD. I haven't seen the one in Montana, but I have seen the other two and they are nearly identical in construction.

http://www.oregonvortex.com/photographs.htm

http://www.cosmosmysteryarea.com/

RSLancastr · 16th July 2007, 06:01 PM

Here is one of the times Randi wrote about the "Oregon Vortex" in his commentary: http://www.randi.org/jr/101003.html

As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions.

tube · 16th July 2007, 08:30 PM

In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways...

GodMark2 · 17th July 2007, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by tube

In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways...

And in rural areas that, just before the... er... 'museum' opened up, experienced a severe, prolonged, local economic depression.

Cuddles · 18th July 2007, 02:53 AM

The challenge application and discussions about it can be found by following the "Nick Nelson" tag.

JoeTheJuggler · 19th July 2007, 01:09 PM

When Six Flags over Mid America (near St. Louis) first opened, they had a nifty one called the Tiltmore Hotel. It was great--water flowing uphill illusion, way cool billiard table, and you'd frequently throw yourself against the wall ('cause the visual info was way different than vestibular info).

I can't imagine anyone believing these things are anything more than fun illusions. :::sigh::: Sadly, they do.

Edit: I wonder what the woo crowd makes of funhouse mirrors. Like a warped mirror that makes your head look gigantic and distorted. Must be space aliens or indigo children messing around with the "quantum" in your DNA. . . .

Beady · 20th July 2007, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions.

They've got one of these in the science museum in Ottowa.

Ladewig · 20th July 2007, 03:41 AM

The website includes photos of "orbs" that were photographed at the house. I understand that these people are trying to make money in hard times, but couldn't they choose to be something less embarassing like prostitutes or bookies?

Reno · 20th July 2007, 05:33 PM

Just like to once again mention the "Electric Brae" near Dunure in Scotland, only a few miles from my home. Probably the most amazing natural optical illusion in the world. And we don't have ANY tourist shops or other people trying to make a quick buck. It's just there and is a normal, in-use road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Brae

http://www.eureka4you.com/magnetichi...yrshire-UK.htm

TjW · 21st July 2007, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Here is one of the times Randi wrote about the "Oregon Vortex" in his commentary: http://www.randi.org/jr/101003.html

As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions.

Knott's Berry Farm has replaced that with a much more expensive Native American religion-themed attraction.

However, the Knotts bought Calico ghost town (northwest of Barstow) and did some restoration, eventually giving it to San Bernardino County as a park. There's a version of that shack there, today. I think it costs a dollar to be shown through.

Of course, no one is serious about the illusions there, but they're the same illusions. Across the street from it is an opportunity to take a "forced perspective" photograph where the subjects apparently grow and shrink. That's free.

Pipirr · 21st July 2007, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Beady

They've got one of these in the science museum in Ottowa.

Super! I'll have to go check it out.

monoman · 21st July 2007, 05:37 PM

Here's a youtube vid of the electric brae. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBnB1NaJcjE

Math Maniac · 21st July 2007, 06:03 PM

It's fitting that the "scientific" link is "coming soon" and that it's been that way since sometime in 2006. Methinks it to be oh so funny, in an ironic way of course considering previous posts and their abundance of orb and ecto information.

kswarthog · 21st July 2007, 06:29 PM

We visited the Mystery Spot in California some years ago, and, though I'm 6'5", I watched amazed as a short Japanese grandmother quickly grew to my height simply by switching places on a stone platform. Okay... it was a fun illusion, and I suppose some people take it too seriously, but it's entertainment, and, if viewed from the right perspective somewhat educational in the elements of optical illusions. I did not realize, however, that there were so many "amazingly unique" places in the world, lol.

I less than three logic · 21st July 2007, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by tube

In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways...

I grew up in Havre, MT, where Hwy 2 runs through town as 1st street. I got a laugh out of it being called a "major highway".

Reno · 23rd July 2007, 03:03 AM

Excellent youtube monoman, I have added it to my MySpace page.

BPSCG · 24th July 2007, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Howdy all,

Has anyone gone to the Montana Vortex?

www.montanavortex.com

My wife and I went last August (2006) because I just wanted to see their tilted house. Little did we know that they were going to try convincing us that all their loony claims were real! Little did they know that I had a Masters degree in physics and my wife had a Masters degree in geophysics - big mistake on their part

Just curious.

I'm going to be leading 30-some people on a skiing trip in the area next January (Big Mountain, recently renamed Whitefish Mountain), which is apparently less than ten miles away. Most people don't ski every single day on a week-long trip, so I'm thinking it might be a fun "off-day" excursion.

Assuming you keep your head on straight and don't start doubting the laws of physics, is it worthwhile? In other words, do the illusions look genuine? Or is it ten bucks better spent at the hotel bar?

Pipirr · 24th July 2007, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by BPSCG

In other words, do the illusions look genuine? Or is it ten bucks better spent at the hotel bar?

This one looks pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4jCrckXgw

16th July 2007, 04:59 PM	#1
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Montana Vortex and House of Mystery Howdy all, Has anyone gone to the Montana Vortex? www.montanavortex.com My wife and I went last August (2006) because I just wanted to see their tilted house. Little did we know that they were going to try convincing us that all their loony claims were real! Little did they know that I had a Masters degree in physics and my wife had a Masters degree in geophysics - big mistake on their part While there I met the infamous Nick Nelson, and we challenged both he and the proprietors of this place about all their claims. I even went so far as to do some on-the-spot measurements and debunking. Their claims are all easily explained through an understanding of optical illusions and other effects of light. Of course, power of suggestion is rampant as well. In case anyone is interested I can provide you with my notes, photos, and a brief synopsis that I wrote up about the experience. And if you every happen to be out that way in Montana, feel free to drop by the Vortex and enjoy the freakshow. Does anyone know how I can submit my "skeptical research" to Randi so that perhaps he'd post it on his regular updates on www.randi.org ? Cheers - Mattus

16th July 2007, 05:01 PM	#2
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,539	Hi Mattus. Randi did a few articles on another one of the "Vortex" tourist traps a few months back. You can email him at randi@randi.org.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

16th July 2007, 06:01 PM	#4
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,539	Here is one of the times Randi wrote about the "Oregon Vortex" in his commentary: http://www.randi.org/jr/101003.html As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

16th July 2007, 08:30 PM	#5
tube Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 898	In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways...
	__________________ Bigfoot is everywhere, yet nowhere. LTC8K6 (Bigfoot) evidence doesn't look better on deeper analysis, it looks worse. David Daegling The Bigfoot hypothesis is tested daily.

17th July 2007, 04:32 PM	#6
GodMark2 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 1,042	Originally Posted by tube In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways... And in rural areas that, just before the... er... 'museum' opened up, experienced a severe, prolonged, local economic depression.
	__________________ Knowing that we do not know, it does not necessarily follow that we can not know.

16th July 2007, 05:23 PM	#3
Babylon Sister Muse Join Date: May 2003 Location: In the Darkness on the edge of Town Posts: 659	I'd be willing to wager that the Montana HofM looks exactly like the HofM at the Oregon Vortex and the house at the Cosmos Mystery Area in Rapid City, SD. I haven't seen the one in Montana, but I have seen the other two and they are nearly identical in construction. http://www.oregonvortex.com/photographs.htm http://www.cosmosmysteryarea.com/

18th July 2007, 02:53 AM	#7
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,582	The challenge application and discussions about it can be found by following the "Nick Nelson" tag.
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

19th July 2007, 01:09 PM	#8
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,749	When Six Flags over Mid America (near St. Louis) first opened, they had a nifty one called the Tiltmore Hotel. It was great--water flowing uphill illusion, way cool billiard table, and you'd frequently throw yourself against the wall ('cause the visual info was way different than vestibular info). I can't imagine anyone believing these things are anything more than fun illusions. :::sigh::: Sadly, they do. Edit: I wonder what the woo crowd makes of funhouse mirrors. Like a warped mirror that makes your head look gigantic and distorted. Must be space aliens or indigo children messing around with the "quantum" in your DNA. . . .
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons Last edited by JoeTheJuggler; 19th July 2007 at 01:12 PM.

20th July 2007, 03:16 AM	#9
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	Originally Posted by RSLancastr As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions. They've got one of these in the science museum in Ottowa.
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson

20th July 2007, 03:41 AM	#10
Ladewig Hipster alien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: not measurable Posts: 16,803	The website includes photos of "orbs" that were photographed at the house. I understand that these people are trying to make money in hard times, but couldn't they choose to be something less embarassing like prostitutes or bookies?
	__________________ Is the JREF message board training wheels for people who hope to one day troll other message boards? It is not that hard to get us to believe you. We are not the major leagues or even the minor leagues. We are Pee-Wee baseball. If you love striking out 10-year-olds, then you'll love trolling our board.

20th July 2007, 05:33 PM	#11
Reno Inquisitor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland, West Coast Posts: 1,234	Just like to once again mention the "Electric Brae" near Dunure in Scotland, only a few miles from my home. Probably the most amazing natural optical illusion in the world. And we don't have ANY tourist shops or other people trying to make a quick buck. It's just there and is a normal, in-use road. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Brae http://www.eureka4you.com/magnetichi...yrshire-UK.htm
	__________________ "Well, if it matters not to you how things are phrased, nor whether they make any logical sense, then here is my answer to your question: Twenty-seven rumbly-tumblies in a tinhorn fandango." - Robert S Lancaster Stop Sylvia Browne Last edited by Reno; 20th July 2007 at 05:36 PM.

21st July 2007, 10:53 AM	#12
TjW Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: up in the air Posts: 9,984	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Here is one of the times Randi wrote about the "Oregon Vortex" in his commentary: http://www.randi.org/jr/101003.html As a kid (back in the 60s) I went to Knott's Berry Farm, and they had something much like this, an old crooked shack with the water flowing uphill in a trough and such. Fun optical illusions. Knott's Berry Farm has replaced that with a much more expensive Native American religion-themed attraction. However, the Knotts bought Calico ghost town (northwest of Barstow) and did some restoration, eventually giving it to San Bernardino County as a park. There's a version of that shack there, today. I think it costs a dollar to be shown through. Of course, no one is serious about the illusions there, but they're the same illusions. Across the street from it is an opportunity to take a "forced perspective" photograph where the subjects apparently grow and shrink. That's free.
	__________________ TjW People like TjW -- Kelly

21st July 2007, 04:46 PM	#13
Pipirr Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Posts: 1,457	Originally Posted by Beady They've got one of these in the science museum in Ottowa. Super! I'll have to go check it out.

21st July 2007, 05:37 PM	#14
monoman Master baiter - I fish! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 967	Here's a youtube vid of the electric brae. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBnB1NaJcjE

21st July 2007, 06:03 PM	#15
Math Maniac Thinker Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 161	It's fitting that the "scientific" link is "coming soon" and that it's been that way since sometime in 2006. Methinks it to be oh so funny, in an ironic way of course considering previous posts and their abundance of orb and ecto information.

21st July 2007, 06:29 PM	#16
kswarthog New Blood Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Kansas... Oh give me a home where the buffalo roam... Posts: 6	We visited the Mystery Spot in California some years ago, and, though I'm 6'5", I watched amazed as a short Japanese grandmother quickly grew to my height simply by switching places on a stone platform. Okay... it was a fun illusion, and I suppose some people take it too seriously, but it's entertainment, and, if viewed from the right perspective somewhat educational in the elements of optical illusions. I did not realize, however, that there were so many "amazingly unique" places in the world, lol.

21st July 2007, 06:29 PM	#17
I less than three logic Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: St Cloud, MN, USA Posts: 1,464	Originally Posted by tube In a truly astounding coincidence, these miraculous quantum-vortex zones that defy the very laws of nature are always located near major highways... I grew up in Havre, MT, where Hwy 2 runs through town as 1st street. I got a laugh out of it being called a "major highway".
	__________________ “There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world.” - Carl Sagan “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball ninety million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.” – Douglas Adams

23rd July 2007, 03:03 AM	#18
Reno Inquisitor Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Scotland, West Coast Posts: 1,234	Excellent youtube monoman, I have added it to my MySpace page.
	__________________ "Well, if it matters not to you how things are phrased, nor whether they make any logical sense, then here is my answer to your question: Twenty-seven rumbly-tumblies in a tinhorn fandango." - Robert S Lancaster Stop Sylvia Browne

24th July 2007, 09:28 AM	#19
BPSCG Cannibal Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Looting Fafner's Cave Posts: 17,556	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Howdy all, Has anyone gone to the Montana Vortex? www.montanavortex.com My wife and I went last August (2006) because I just wanted to see their tilted house. Little did we know that they were going to try convincing us that all their loony claims were real! Little did they know that I had a Masters degree in physics and my wife had a Masters degree in geophysics - big mistake on their part Just curious. I'm going to be leading 30-some people on a skiing trip in the area next January (Big Mountain, recently renamed Whitefish Mountain), which is apparently less than ten miles away. Most people don't ski every single day on a week-long trip, so I'm thinking it might be a fun "off-day" excursion. Assuming you keep your head on straight and don't start doubting the laws of physics, is it worthwhile? In other words, do the illusions look genuine? Or is it ten bucks better spent at the hotel bar?
	__________________ Philanthropist (n.) - Someone who spends his own money to advance his version of Utopia. Socialist (n.) - Someone who spends your money to advance his version of Utopia.

24th July 2007, 09:42 AM	#20
Pipirr Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: North Posts: 1,457	Originally Posted by BPSCG In other words, do the illusions look genuine? Or is it ten bucks better spent at the hotel bar? This one looks pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a4jCrckXgw