Dan and Dave Buck.

[thaiboxerken]

They just came out with a DVD set called "The Trilogy"

It's been getting rave reviews, so I ordered a set. I'll give my own review. I tend to learn better with DVD's than books. Dan and Dave have earned a reputation as doing completely AWESOME flourishes, which is cool in and of itself. Has anyone any opinions to give of their other products?

[MelBrooksfan]

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I tend to learn better with DVD's than books.

Same here. I usually fumble around trying to use the written instructions until I stumble on to what they meant and have an "Ohhhh" moment. I look forward to your review. How much does the set cost?

[fuelair]

http://www.dananddave.com/ 85.00

[AgeGap]

Wow.
When I buy tricks its usually from a Magic Shop/Stall. The vendors are usually happy to demonstrate the tricks which makes me happy. In turn I usually spend more money than I intended and I think that makes them happy.
The DVDs look amazing though.

[Cain]

I can't help but say something about the interminable debate on video vs. books. Currently I'm reading Lorayne's Best of Friends III and learning a Bob Farmer move called "Passtitution" is extremely rough going, no doubt compounded by the fact that I'm a southpaw. So left is right and right is left. Right inner corner, left outer corner, ugh. It's not a straight reversal because "top" and "bottom" remain top and bottom. Plus, authors too often fail to clearly state what is supposed to happen before describing the action. Video is more difficult to screw up, and has the added advantage of demonstrating what it's supposed to look like. Nevertheless, in capable hands books are much better for explaining certain types of things, especially assuming one is fluent in magic-speak and familiar with the moves.

ETA: You can get Trilogy from Penguin for ~$57.00, add your 10% discount for returning customers and it comes to less than that. Although I suppose that place might be evil and you'd prefer to get it from D&D themselves.

Anyway, for the Bucks' DVD I had previously contributed a few thoughts to another forum. Here they are:

Quote:

I believe Alan Ackerman said he was once firmly in the anti-flourish school until he saw the audience response to Paul Harris. In my own experience I find that flourishes undeniably augment the performance. That said, I think a lot of "XCM" has an almost pornographic dynamic. One dismissive response is that it becomes too much like "juggling," but I think juggling can be rather entertaining. In my more sadistic, less kind moments I want to say things like, "It's a good thing each Buck has a twin because together they almost add up to one interesting person." A cruel overstatement but perhaps it contains a a kernel of truth. The problem, in my view, with all this XCM stuff is that it blends together into a hodge-podge of nonsense and ultimately lacks a distinct voice; all noise, no signal. Few if any people will care, or even be able to distinguish, your five different versions of some fabulous 9 packet cut. Lennart Green's magic has visual panache but personality as well. His "egotistical" remarks are clearly a put on ("Don't worry - it takes 30 minutes for the laser to cause blindness, so you have plenty of time to watch my entire performance.")

The magic material on this DVD is almost entirely impromptu, and most of it can be done in the hands. These are slick effects consisting mostly of transpositions and color changes. Look at Tivo 2.0 -- it's incredible. Amazing. If I recall correctly there is no active spectator involvement whatsoever. Even when a card is selected the spectator merely says stop, never actually touching a card.

The Bucks are humorless, their explanations clinical for the most part. (Although I could go the next few weeks without hearing the phrase "like so," or the word "alls." "Alls you do is hold the cards like so.")

BIAS

Here's the thing about flourishes. Lay people, at least at the present time, have relatively relaxed standards. Even a regular pressure fan can generate excitement, and some yokels will be impressed if you can simply bridge the cards after a shuffle. It's a matter of diminishing returns, and so not much is to be gained from the latest version of Molecule. HOWEVER, you do your thing and the Buck Twins follow up with their thing, and I guarantee you that your once impressive triple packet cuts will pale in comparison.

I wonder if we can liken this phenomenon to those infamous cola taste tests in the eighties. Pepsi regularly beat Coke in blind taste tests, which caused Coke executives to worry like mad. They eventually developed a new formula, called it New Coke, and this product consistently beat Pepsi in taste tests, yet New Coke failed miserably. Why? One explanation researchers found was that in head-to-head sip tests people were biased toward the sweeter beverage. In other types of tests, such as taking a 12 pack home and consuming it through the week and reporting back, ridiculous amounts of sugar had limits (there's also a crucial psychological dynamic relating to branding). The ad copy I see keeps touting how the Bucks were the only ones to receive a standing ovation from some audience who had witnessed Bill Malone, Chad Long, Guy Hollingworth and others. This stuff plays well on video.

Maybe it's because I'm oh-so-wannabe-punk-rock but I do find something almost contemptible with the self-consciously modern stylings of many XCMers in general, and the ultra-slick packaging of this product in particular. I'm inclined to lump this stuff in with Coldplay and Michael Bay movies. Spectacle can always be outdone; character is particular, interesting and compelling.

Taken as a whole, the magic on the first disc, in my view, lacks emotional conviction. I do like Subway and Tivo 2.0. As for the flourishes, I liked some of the stuff on the third disc (20 moves). It had this cool thing with a pressure fan and a neat Steve Forte idea.

[aofl]

Originally Posted by Cain

ETA: You can get Trilogy from Penguin for ~$57.00, add your 10% discount for returning customers and it comes to less than that. Although I suppose that place might be evil and you'd prefer to get it from D&D themselves.

Penguin shows a price of $63.75 to me. Do you have a special discount with them?

And what is the returning customer bonus? It's been a while since I ordered from them and I might qualify.

I love card flourishes. I devoured Jeff McBride's stuff when it came out, but the whole multiple cut thing just leaves me cold. I must say the preview of Trilogy had some impressive stuff on it, especially the color changes.

A

[Cain]

Hmmm... They changed it because it used to be ~57. I think "Penguin2799" is the discount code for all returning customers (10% off).

[Cain]

It appears as though Ellusionist (easily the most annoying magic-related website) has severed all ties with the Buck Twins. This happened awhile ago, but I didn't find out until recently.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=2&gl=us

One person says that the most likely reason was Penguin's scandalously low pricing (Penguin is also evil, but not nearly as annoying as Brad Christian and E):

Quote:

Brad and his Ellusionist cronies first accused Penguin of playing dirty by deliberately under-pricing the DVD set to screw with them. He even tried to use the term “Loss-Leader” but messed up and said “Lost-Leader”. They even went as far as to make these accusations on the Penguin Forums.

Another aside: The E forums are even more regulated than the JREF. Any mention of the Buck Twins over there now results in a deleted or locked thread.

[aofl]

Originally Posted by Cain

(Penguin is also evil, but not nearly as annoying as Brad Christian and E)

Ah, Penguin. The cheaper (and now the least annoying) of two evils.

A

[thaiboxerken]

I have the Trilogy and I have to say that I'm impressed. This is more advanced level stuff so I'll have to practice quite a bit. However, it's just fun watching the CD because of the cool soundtrack and the way it's set up. I'd recommend this for intermediate to advanced skill levels.