Where are the modern conspiracies?

[Apollo20]

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

The history of the world is replete with conspiracies. Shakespeare, an astute observer of human behavior, wrote many “historical” plays dealing with conspiracies. The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot in May 1604 involved a conspiracy. There was the famous Cato Street Conspiracy of 1816 and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

The notion of a conspiracy comes from the Latin word con-spirare, “conspire”, which means to “breath together” to do something illegal, blameworthy or BAD. Now few would deny man’s capacity for conspiratorial behavior - after all it’s a dog eat dog world. But Modern Man, with his Social Darwinism, has created a world free of the stigma of “bad behavior” or “wrong doing” because it is tacitly assumed that it is impossible to commit an immoral act in a world where nothing is absolutely forbidden or inherently BAD. Thus, by abandoning religion and morality, we accept the ugly Brave New World of The Lord of the Flies – an environment where man as ape is a reality. And it’s no coincidence that Homer Simpson is about to replace Superman as our new ape-man hero.

“Modern Man” is well represented by JREFers who consistently denigrate skeptical thinkers as twoofers and idiots. These Nietzian Nistians are nothing more than exemplars of the fad of conspiracy denial that is actually a poor rationale for immoral and unethical behavior. Remarkably, even the "authorities" see the need to reign in the extreme capitalism of a Conrad Black and hopefully we will see more crooked businessmen go to jail… but I digress…….. The fact remains that the Gravy’s and Pomeroos of the world would argue that a backdoor deal does not a conspiracy make….

Interestingly, in the Western World, we punish extreme miscreancy with the death penalty. But in the case of 9/11, the hijackers who piloted aircraft into WTC 1 & 2, negated punishment and retribution with a self-imposed death penalty we call suicide. So I ask, in a world without moral imperatives, how can we yet speak of “justice denied” and by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

[Totovader]

Starts here...

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

... and ends here?

Quote:

...by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

Seems this post belongs in the political forum.

Also, I'd like to see just one post from you where you don't do that whole anti-JREF thing... I'd really like to think you're above all that whining.

[Apollo20]

Totovader:

Isn't this the conspiracy forum?

And I'm not "whining"...The facts are the facts...

[cmcaulif]

When you say conspiracy denial, exactly what do you mean?

There should be a clear distinction drawn between conspiracies that are based on proof, and conspiracies based on speculation.

Such as, executives at Enron conspired to defraud their investors vs. the U.S. gov't conspired to attack the world trade center and the pentagon.

There's a big difference there.

[PhantomWolf]

There have been plenty of post WW2 conspiracies. Watergate, Iran Contra, Operation Satanic (a french conspiracy), and more, I'm sure that there was a recent thread or two here somewhere.

[Apollo20]

Not if you deny the existance of moral imperatives.. a la Social Darwinism...

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Interestingly, in the Western World, we punish extreme miscreancy with the death penalty. But in the case of 9/11, the hijackers who piloted aircraft into WTC 1 & 2, negated punishment and retribution with a self-imposed death penalty we call suicide.

But those who plotted the attack, and those who sheltered them, and those who financed them, were alive and well after 9/11. And willing to attack again.

Quote:

So I ask, in a world without moral imperatives, how can we yet speak of “justice denied” and by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, nor did the war there. 2 separate wars there Apollo, different reasons. And there are few who think the war with the Taliban was unjustified, are you one of those?

I agree, this belongs in politics.

[Apollo20]

Conspiracies are all about politics in case you havn't noticed.

Conspiracy denial is all about ethics, or the lack thereof.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Conspiracies are all about politics in case you havn't noticed.

Conspiracy denial is all about ethics

What are the ethics of starting a thread and not commenting on the topic you created? Do you post here just to be a troll?

[Apollo20]

Why do JREFer conspiracy denialists doubt the machiavellian tendencies of politicians?

[cmcaulif]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Not if you deny the existance of moral imperatives.. a la Social Darwinism...

My point is that one of those conspiracies is based on proven fact, the other on wild speculation. How could moral imperatives even be a factor if the conspiracy in question did not occur?

The opinions of JREF posters, or NISTians if you like, certainly do not come from some form of conspiracy denial, or belief that the current administration is infallible, but rather from actual research, as I'm sure you know.

They are perhaps a bit more caustic and a bit less open minded than you are yourself or would like, but surely, the term conspiracy denial does not apply.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Why do JREFer conspiracy denialists doubt the machiavellian tendencies of politicians?

Name one who has, and back it up with evidence. Then support your contention that everyone here does the same.

[Apollo20]

Pardalis, Enigma, LaShill, Rwguinn, Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and Senator Bill et al... I don't keep track of the names of hacks.........

[PhantomWolf]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Why do JREFer conspiracy denialists doubt the machiavellian tendencies of politicians?

Who says antything about that Apollo20. How about they doubt certain claims about certain conspriacies because there is no evidence that such a conspiracy, on such a scale actually occured, while there is a lot of evidence that the actual official story was true.

Let's take Operation Satanic for example.

The Offical Story the French wanted believed is that their agents were innocent honeymooners and had nothing to do with the bombing. Trouble is that all the evidence that Operation Wharf turned up pointed to them not being who they claimed they were, acting highly suspiciously, carrying the bombs and possibly carrying out the attacks. This was because as a bunch, New Zealanders are generally pretty nosey and saw things, then reported them, allowing the conspiracy to be uncovered. We have a number of other incidents over here that could be minor conspiracies, but since no one would really care there isn't a lot of point in mentioning them, other than to say, people talked, and the truth come out quickly, even when those involved tried their hardest to cover it up (this includes a number of police officers and government politicians.)

It's all about the evidence. If there is none, there is likely no conspiracy. If there is evidence, and it stands up, then it's worth investigating further.

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Pardalis, Enigma, LaShill, Rwguinn, Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and Senator Bill et al... I don't keep track of the names of hacks.........

Failure to support your claim noted.

[cmcaulif]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Why do JREFer conspiracy denialists doubt the machiavellian tendencies of politicians?

I don't think any JREFer would deny that 9/11 has been exploited to the advantage of politicians...by every single gov't in the world.

Turkey clamped down on the Kurds, Russia cracked down harder in Chechnya, in Colombia, Narco-traffickers magically became Narco-terrorists overnight. Bush's exploitation of 9/11 everyone knows first hand.

The Machiavellian tendencies of politicians are clear, does that mean 9/11 was an inside job?

to quote Phantom wolf:

"It's all about the evidence. If there is none, there is likely no conspiracy. If there is evidence, and it stands up, then it's worth investigating further."

[Apollo20]

The evidence is most abundant in past threads... but sorry got to go now..

But, fear not, as Arnold so famously said... "I'LL BE BACK!"

Oh, and by the way... if you don't like this thread feel free to ignore it!

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by cmcaulif

The Machiavellian tendencies of politicians are clear, does that mean 9/11 was an inside job?

No, it means that every single building ever constructed with concrete and steel is subject to a catastrophic failure due to a chemical reaction characterized by microscopic iron spherules!!11!11!!111

[WildCat]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

The evidence is most abundant in past threads... but sorry got to go now..

So soon? Usually the woos wait at least a few pages before scurrying off.

Quote:

But, fear not, as Arnold so famously said... "I'LL BE BACK!"

If you do come back, I predict you still won't be able to support your juvenile claim. No, stating the obvious does not qualify me for Randi's $1 million.

Quote:

Oh, and by the way... if you don't like this thread feel free to ignore it!

What's not to like about a thread rooted in the hissy fit of a chemist spurned?

[steve s]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

Tell that to Anwar Sadat. Oh, wait. You can't. He was assassinated in 1981.

Steve S.

[cmcaulif]

Originally Posted by steve s

Tell that to Anwar Sadat. Oh, wait. You can't. He was assassinated in 1981.

Steve S.

The 'stay behind' measures of Operation Gladio could be considered a conspiracy as well.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Totovader:

Isn't this the conspiracy forum?

And I'm not "whining"...The facts are the facts...

You are whining a lot. You are whining about NIST, you are not happy enough to be an independent pro official story component because you think it supports the government story and you oppose the war(s)? Did you have stock in the Taliban franchise for burning books and film? Did you have an interest in Saddam because he did such a good job keeping order like the Nazis did?

What is your real problem? Yes there are modern conspiracies! Do I get a prize? Watergate, it was a small conspiracy which leaked slowly and earn a Pulitzer prize for some reporters who finally lucked out and got something right. They are now publishing potboilers to keep their life styles going. Watergate is a good one to help build your data base on political idiots gone wild! ""I am not a crook!"" Right on Dick!

Yes there are modern conspiracies. We have OKC, Tim that other idiot made a bomb and blew up OKC people. That was a very small group of idiots, 2, and 2 other people who were too messed up and too paranoid about the police to report the two idiots. Looks like the smaller groups have the best chance of successful plots. But look, they all got caught! Really fast! The Tim group got caught the same day, and the Dick group got caught in a year or two. I guess 9/11 conspiracy was a record, the guys who did it died that day and the people who helped hide out in caves. The Taliban should have given us them bad guys and they could still be trying to burn books and films (and stoning women who try to read or watch them).

And yes you missed the conspiracy of 9/11. Have you been asleep. At least you can do the energy stuff to show a gravity collapse is possible. But then anyone with physics could, and anyone who wants to can learn in a day to do the same.

I have to warn you there are conspiracies afoot! Someone will rob a bank... oops too late. But someone else is going to rob a bank real soon. I warned you and I bet you did not do anything about it. Are you in on the conspiracy? Why did you fail to do anything about it? Why are you still posting you political tripe in the conspiracy sub forum and trying to veil it as you fail to stay on topic like me!? Is there not one truther who can do something and stop that bank robbery?

I have given the warning; who is listening. Is this another conspiracy?

Why are you still whining?

[rwguinn]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Pardalis, Enigma, LaShill, Rwguinn, Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and Senator Bill et al... I don't keep track of the names of hacks.........

Show one instance where any of us so named has denied "The Machiavellian tendencies of politicians" or retract the blatent Ad Hominem attack.
You, sirrah, have overstepped the bounds of science and civility once again.
IF you cannot logically defend your position, you attack. Just one would expect from an individual who falsly accuses his employer of malfeasance and is astonished that there are consequences.

[stilicho]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Remarkably, even the "authorities" see the need to reign in the extreme capitalism of a Conrad Black and hopefully we will see more crooked businessmen go to jail…

This is just silly.

Read this: http://woweconomics.wordpress.com/

A small investor group began poking around in non-compete payments, aka "management fees", and caught Lord Black stealing from his shareholders.

No "extreme capitalism" at all. Just extreme stupidity and extreme arrogance.

Look at it this way, Apollo. Lord Black was a signed, sealed, and delivered Bilderberger. Did he forget to give "them" their cut and "they" turned on him? No. Of course not. He was just another stupid and incompetent man who believed in his own infallibility.

Kinda like a CT'r.

[stilicho]

Originally Posted by cmcaulif

IRussia cracked down harder in Chechnya...

Note, too, the following conclusion of an article written in 2000 by a prominent Canadian foreign correspondent (and an eye-opener to people who think Bin Laden was "invented" by the Republican Administration in the USA):

Instead of trying to overthrow Taliban, which will surely pave the way for a second Russian occupation of Afghanistan, the US and its allies should recognize Taliban as the legitimate Afghan government, and work with Kabul to curtail the opium trade, which is currently beyond anyone’s control in a nation that is starving and desperate.

The west may not like the fierce Taliban, but it is the legitimate government of Afghanistan and the only power holding that nation together. Taliban is also only force blocking Russia’s plans to restore its former rule in Central Asia, and to reoccupy strategic Afghanistan.

The entire story is here: http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives...srussian_c.php

[CHF]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Why do JREFer conspiracy denialists doubt the machiavellian tendencies of politicians?

That's quite a leap you're making there.

I don't doubt that politician are capable of doing bad things or will lie to exploit a situation. But when it comes to 9/11 woo there always seems to be a curious lack of evidence.

Now if you want an example of a conspiracy theory which I think is highly possible, look no further than the 1999 apartment bombings in Russia that triggered the second invasion of Chechnya.

[Stellafane]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

The history of the world is replete with conspiracies. Shakespeare, an astute observer of human behavior, wrote many “historical” plays dealing with conspiracies. The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot in May 1604 involved a conspiracy. There was the famous Cato Street Conspiracy of 1816 and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

What are you talking about? 9/11 was a conspiracy, on that everybody agrees, whether or not you believe it was an inside job. And anyone here could probably name several more post-WWII conspiracies off the top of their heads. Your claim makes zero sense.

Quote:

The notion of a conspiracy comes from the Latin word con-spirare, “conspire”, which means to “breath together” to do something illegal, blameworthy or BAD. Now few would deny man’s capacity for conspiratorial behavior - after all it’s a dog eat dog world. But Modern Man, with his Social Darwinism, has created a world free of the stigma of “bad behavior” or “wrong doing” because it is tacitly assumed that it is impossible to commit an immoral act in a world where nothing is absolutely forbidden or inherently BAD. Thus, by abandoning religion and morality, we accept the ugly Brave New World of The Lord of the Flies – an environment where man as ape is a reality. And it’s no coincidence that Homer Simpson is about to replace Superman as our new ape-man hero.

With all due respect, this sounds like something written by a teenager who doesn't really understand what the cliches he's just strung together actually mean, they just sound sorta cool. Perhaps you might consider that before labeling other posters "hacks."

Quote:

“Modern Man” is well represented by JREFers who consistently denigrate skeptical thinkers as twoofers and idiots.

That is a bald-faced lie. Back it up with evidence or take it back.

Quote:

These Nietzian Nistians are nothing more than exemplars of the fad of conspiracy denial that is actually a poor rationale for immoral and unethical behavior.

First off, I doubt you have any real understanding of Nietzsche's philosophy, otherwise you wouldn't have used it in such a comically irrelevant fashion. (I suppose you think it sounds alliteratively clever next to your made-up word "Nistians," but it's utterly meaningless in this context.) Second, conspiracy denial is hardly a fad. And finally, it's another lie to say we're trying to rationalize immoral and unethical behavior. Again, back it up or take it back.

Quote:

Remarkably, even the "authorities" see the need to reign in the extreme capitalism of a Conrad Black and hopefully we will see more crooked businessmen go to jail… but I digress…….. The fact remains that the Gravy’s and Pomeroos of the world would argue that a backdoor deal does not a conspiracy make….

How do you know what the "Gravy's and Pomeroos of the world" would argue concerning "backdoor deals"? Once again, you make very little sense.

Quote:

Interestingly, in the Western World, we punish extreme miscreancy with the death penalty.

Factually untrue. Many countries of the "Western World" have abolished capital punishment.

Quote:

But in the case of 9/11, the hijackers who piloted aircraft into WTC 1 & 2, negated punishment and retribution with a self-imposed death penalty we call suicide.

Yes, they died. Your point?

Quote:

So I ask, in a world without moral imperatives, how can we yet speak of “justice denied”...

Because, as others have pointed out, the conspiracy (see? I agree there was one) didn't end with the pilots themselves. Others were involved, and thus far they have evaded justice.

Quote:

...and by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

It might have saved a lot of time to simply say you don't think the US was justified for waging war in Afganistan and Iraq, without all the dense, irrelevant, pseudo-intellectual malapropisms that preceded your last sentence. But I suppose had you done so, you couldn't argue that this thread should reside in the conspiracy forum, rather than Politics where it actually belongs.

[LashL]

Originally Posted by Apollo20;every post of his in this thread

blah blah blah

Sleep it off, Frank. You're embarrassing yourself.

[jhunter1163]

What about Litvinenko? The conspiracy to kill him was right out of James Bond. And yes, I believe there WAS a conspiracy to kill him.

[Mashuna]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

The history of the world is replete with conspiracies. Shakespeare, an astute observer of human behavior, wrote many “historical” plays dealing with conspiracies. The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot in May 1604 involved a conspiracy. There was the famous Cato Street Conspiracy of 1816 and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

If you're going to count things like the Gunpowder Plot as a conspiracy, the 9/11 (the normal understanding of what happened) was also a conspiracy.

Unless you're claiming that Fawkes was a patsy, and in fact a separate shady cabal of Jews and the East India Company were really behind the events of the day.

[brodski]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

The history of the world is replete with conspiracies. Shakespeare, an astute observer of human behavior, wrote many “historical” plays dealing with conspiracies. The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot in May 1604 involved a conspiracy. There was the famous Cato Street Conspiracy of 1816 and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

Ah, equivocation- all of the plots you mention are conspiracies, but they were not Governemnt backed conspiracies. 9/11 was a conspiracy of Islamic radicals, comaprabel to eth Catholic radical gun[powdter plot. The IRA another series of conspricies- eth brighton bombing is comparable to eth Cato Street Conspiracy. The difefrnce is there are not in the same league as eth paranoid Conspiracy Theories wich posit some grad, impossible vast and unnecaeraly complex overarching conspiracy group. Just because the activities of the west Midlands Serious Criem Squad and the fansatsies about ther Illuminati can both be labelled “conspiracy” does not mean that they are the same thing at all. Belfi in eth former does not equate belfi in eth latter.

Quote:

But Modern Man, with his Social Darwinism, has created a world free of the stigma of “bad behavior” or “wrong doing” because it is tacitly assumed that it is impossible to commit an immoral act in a world where nothing is absolutely forbidden or inherently BAD.

Um what? What have abandoned Victorian social dieas got to do with Modern Man? Just because some people reject absolute morality tahtd eos not mean that no act in context can be condemned as wrong or criminal, nor that conspiracies do not exsist.

Quote:

Thus, by abandoning religion and morality, we accept the ugly Brave New World of The Lord of the Flies – an environment where man as ape is a reality. And it’s no coincidence that Homer Simpson is about to replace Superman as our new ape-man hero.

Interesting that you seem to think that morality comes from religion when you start your post with pointing out a religious plot to murder hundreds and carry on a bloody sectrairan conflict.

Quote:

“Modern Man” is well represented by JREFers who consistently denigrate skeptical thinkers as twoofers and idiots.

They are not sceptical thinkers, just beacsue one thinks outside of eth mainstream does not make one a skeptic. And many of them are idiots

Quote:

These Nietzian Nistians are nothing more than exemplars of the fad of conspiracy denial that is actually a poor rationale for immoral and unethical behaviour.

We neither

Quote:

Remarkably, even the "authorities" see the need to reign in the extreme capitalism of a Conrad Black and hopefully we will see more crooked businessmen go to jail… but I digress…….. The fact remains that the Gravy’s and Pomeroos of the world would argue that a backdoor deal does not a conspiracy make….

no they would not, they would argue that a grand overarching, paranoid conspiracy it does not make. Check out the threads on “any real conspiracies”.

Quote:

Interestingly, in the Western World, we punish extreme miscreancy with the death penalty.

No, you do that in the USA, the USA does not= the western world.

Quote:

But in the case of 9/11, the hijackers who piloted aircraft into WTC 1 & 2, negated punishment and retribution with a self-imposed death penalty we call suicide. So I ask, in a world without moral imperatives, how can we yet speak of “justice denied” and by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

International law is a myth, a convenient myth but one non the less. The war against the Taliban in Afghanistan was one of prevention not retribution- the war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 and is all about realising earlier foreign policy goals- although politicians may have tried to spin it as being about 9/11- 9/11 was never explicitly used as a justification for the war.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Pardalis, Enigma, LaShill, Rwguinn, Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and Senator Bill et al... I don't keep track of the names of hacks.........

Yay! I didn't make the list. I didn't make the list!


Er..... wait a second...... none of those posters denied the "Machiavellian tendencies of politicians." I think you need to provide evidence for that type of allegation.

[Spins]

Has Greening fallen out of the wrong side of the bed and hit his head on the adjacent cupboard again, hence the bad mood!

[westprog]

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

What about Litvinenko? The conspiracy to kill him was right out of James Bond. And yes, I believe there WAS a conspiracy to kill him.

I don't think there's a possible explanation for the death of Litvinyenko that doesn't involve some weird conspiracy. That Putin ordered him murdered by radioactive poisoning is actually the simplest explanation.

[westprog]

Originally Posted by brodski

No, you do that in the USA, the USA does not= the western world.

In fact, the Western world is almost defined by its attitude to capital punishment. The USA is the one out of step. That doesn't mean they are wrong, necessarily. Just that they are in the same camp as China and Zimbabwe rather than Spain and Sweden.

[8den]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Pardalis, Enigma, LaShill, Rwguinn, Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and Senator Bill et al... I don't keep track of the names of hacks.........

Please give examples of when these posters have denied the "Machiavellian tendencies of politicians."

Greening you've got a lousy attitude, and a pompous air of superiority about you, that I don't really care for.

[calebprime]

Originally Posted by Stellafane

First off, I doubt you have any real understanding of Nietzsche's philosophy, otherwise you wouldn't have used it in such a comically irrelevant fashion. (I suppose you think it sounds alliteratively clever next to your made-up word "Nistians," but it's utterly meaningless in this context.)

Maybe it's a minor point, but seconded. Nietzsche is evoked for all kinds of things--most of them having little to do with his philosophy. You can quote-mine Nietzsche to support almost anything. But the core of his philosophy is heroic individualism or aristocratic radicalism or extreme aestheticism. (There are competing schools of thought.) He has great insights about art and psychology, and is sort of a crackpot when he talks about women, politics, and much else. Only a really crude reading of Nietzsche gets you to "God is Dead, so anything goes. Let's do a Leopold and Loeb." If anything, studying Nietzsche has led me to other philosophers and the study of religion and rather increased my respect for morality.

The best study of Nietzsche I know of is by Leslie Thiele. The Politics of the Soul

[Zep]

Careful, folks! Methinks Dr Greening is simply phishing for anti-CT attitude here, so he can reference it elsewhere (or in his writings) as examples of so-called JREF/NIST closed-mindedness, complicity and nastiness towards the twoofers. That is, he is manufacturing his own persecution as a prop for the validation his theories.

I'd suggest we simply not respond to his provocations, and see what happens then.

[Brainache]

Originally Posted by Zep

Careful, folks! Methinks Dr Greening is simply phishing for anti-CT attitude here, so he can reference it elsewhere (or in his writings) as examples of so-called JREF/NIST closed-mindedness, complicity and nastiness towards the twoofers. That is, he is manufacturing his own persecution as a prop for the validation his theories.

I'd suggest we simply not respond to his provocations, and see what happens then.

That's just what you want us to think! I'm on to your evil plans Mr so-called Zep.

Dr Greening is obviously just asking innocent questions in order to get to the truth of things.

It's just common sense.

[Par]

Originally Posted by Apollo20

Where are the modern (post WW II) conspiracies?

The history of the world is replete with conspiracies. Shakespeare, an astute observer of human behavior, wrote many “historical” plays dealing with conspiracies. The real life murder of Julius Caesar on March 15th 44 BC involved a conspiracy. Guy Fawkes and the Gunpowder Plot in May 1604 involved a conspiracy. There was the famous Cato Street Conspiracy of 1816 and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand in 1914. Then, more or less, the age of conspiracies apparently came to an end…. Why?

The notion of a conspiracy comes from the Latin word con-spirare, “conspire”, which means to “breath together” to do something illegal, blameworthy or BAD. Now few would deny man’s capacity for conspiratorial behavior - after all it’s a dog eat dog world. But Modern Man, with his Social Darwinism, has created a world free of the stigma of “bad behavior” or “wrong doing” because it is tacitly assumed that it is impossible to commit an immoral act in a world where nothing is absolutely forbidden or inherently BAD. Thus, by abandoning religion and morality, we accept the ugly Brave New World of The Lord of the Flies – an environment where man as ape is a reality. And it’s no coincidence that Homer Simpson is about to replace Superman as our new ape-man hero.

“Modern Man” is well represented by JREFers who consistently denigrate skeptical thinkers as twoofers and idiots. These Nietzian Nistians are nothing more than exemplars of the fad of conspiracy denial that is actually a poor rationale for immoral and unethical behavior. Remarkably, even the "authorities" see the need to reign in the extreme capitalism of a Conrad Black and hopefully we will see more crooked businessmen go to jail… but I digress…….. The fact remains that the Gravy’s and Pomeroos of the world would argue that a backdoor deal does not a conspiracy make….

Interestingly, in the Western World, we punish extreme miscreancy with the death penalty. But in the case of 9/11, the hijackers who piloted aircraft into WTC 1 & 2, negated punishment and retribution with a self-imposed death penalty we call suicide. So I ask, in a world without moral imperatives, how can we yet speak of “justice denied” and by what “law” does the United States seek retribution for 9/11 through a brutal “war” against Iraq and Afghanistan?

There are more dignified ways of getting attention than posting the archetypal “freshman’s first postmodernist philosophy essay,” you know. I've translated it into straightforward language. It’s surprising to see just how little has been said.

Quote:

Throughout history, conspiracies have been fairly common. Here are some examples: X, Y & Z. But there have been no conspiracies in recent years. Why?

Modern society has abandoned religion and morality in favour of Social Darwinism. So, there is no such thing as right and wrong anymore; men are nothing more than animals.

The JREF is a prime example of this change – critical sceptics are insulted and aren’t listened to. JREF members simply deny conspiracies – some of them claim that certain nefarious actions do not amount to conspiracies – this is immoral.

Certain parts of the Western world enforce the death penalty for serious crimes. The 9/11 hijackers, however, killed themselves. So, in a world without morality, how can we say that certain countries have transgressed in such a way as to justify war against them?