$ylvia Goes "Ka-ching!"

Miss Whiplash · 26th July 2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Guest: Hi, Sylvia. I had a very significant dream several years ago. I dreamt of a series of numbers. I've never had anything like it before. Also, with the word orange, repeated, repeatedly. Is this a message for me to buy lottery tickets and actually win, or is this a fantasy?

Sylvia: I would do it. If it's coming to you that strong, I would do it.

Guest: It did. It's like infused knowledge. It was there.

Sylvia: Oh, yeah.

Guest: 'Cause I've never forgotten it since.

Sylvia: 'Cause I've had people who've called me and said that they played the numbers and won.

Guest: And this is something I have felt for 30 years and I keep trying to get away from it because I don't win and --

Sylvia: Why don't you play it?

Montel: If you want to jot that down right there. I'm only playing.

Guest: And I don't have to, it's constant.

Montel: Oh, no, I was not talking about for you. I was just saying --

Guest: Well, I'm going to try. If it comes true. And that's why I wanted to ask because I have played for years.

Sylvia: No, no.

Guest: And been sick with disappointment to the fact now that I'm afraid to do it.

Montel: If you hit the lottery in the next month, you better come back on the show and tell me what you did, all right?

Guest: Next year, and if I do, I will. And I'm going to tie to your foundation and hers, and that's why I asked.

One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes.

RSLancastr · 26th July 2007, 06:14 PM

"Tie" to their foundations? Probably said "tithe."

vexed · 26th July 2007, 06:16 PM

Montel needs to stop putting Slyvia on his show... but I'm sure the ratings are too good with all of the sheep.

Miss Whiplash · 26th July 2007, 06:48 PM

Thanks RSL. "Tie" did not make a whole lot of sense.

steve s · 26th July 2007, 07:32 PM

So she's been playing for years and has never won. And she's "afraid" to play these numbers, presumably becuase she can't face the disappointment when her magical numbers don't win. Yet she needs to ask Sylvia's advice whether to play them or not. How does this woman function in the day-to-day world?

And when her numbers don't win will her belief in the paranormal be diminished even the slightest bit? Is this a trick question?

Steve S.

Brattus · 26th July 2007, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by The Vampire

From yesterday's Montel show:

One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes.

Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this?
If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia.
Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have.
Complete morons are not worth the effort.

CFLarsen · 26th July 2007, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Brattus

Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this?
If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia.
Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have.
Complete morons are not worth the effort.

Do you think legislation should not protect "complete morons" from being exploited?

chillzero · 27th July 2007, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by The Vampire

From yesterday's Montel show:

One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes.

I doubt it - that would mean she believed what she said.

Spektator · 27th July 2007, 05:40 AM

You know, it occurs to me that one could build up a network of victims on the Internet: "Each week I'll send you some numbers that have a good chance of winning a lottery. You agree to buy a ticket with those numbers on it and if I'm right and you win, you'll pay me 25% of your winnings. If you lose, there is never any charge, because psychic abilities can't be right all the time."

Then you'd get to play hundreds or thousands of numbers every week with no charge to you, and a fair chance of getting some dough in the end.

Miss Whiplash · 27th July 2007, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this?
If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia.
Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have.
Complete morons are not worth the effort.

Because, given the correct circumstances, most of us could become the same "moron." Desperation does not breed logical thinking.

Cello Man · 27th July 2007, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

Do you think legislation should not protect "complete morons" from being exploited?

That would entail the National Guard blocking the entrance to churches.

-Fran- · 27th July 2007, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by The Vampire

Because, given the correct circumstances, most of us could become the same "moron." Desperation does not breed logical thinking.

I've been thinking a lot about this, and I don't know what to think, really! On one hand I do believe what you say here. Great desperation, deep grief, shock, can make people do things they wouldn't normally do, that is a fact that I do not dispute at all.

I would also like to stress that I do not blame victims for what people like Sylvia Browne puts them through, she's a vulture all right, and that some fall for her tricks is not a reason not to fight her!

But I do see where people like Brattus come from with the way they reason, as well. I do think that some people are more prone to believe in things like this than others are, regardless of what happens in their life. I wouldn't go so far as to call them stupid, even if in my most frustrated moments that word has (unfairly so, I guess) been used by me when I am alone in front of my PC and read the most mindboggling things that people say, do and think.

Not all people fall for psychic trickery in moments of desperation and grief. That doesn't mean that they are not AS desperate or grief stricken. It doesn't mean either that people who do fall for it are stupid, but I do think it shows that they DO have another view on life to begin with, and as skeptics we can discuss that view I think without putting blame on the victims.

When I was 20 years old a very good friend of mine committed suicide. He hung himself. This was a very traumatic and shattering experience for me and his other friends (sadly, he had no family, we were pretty much it for him). The grief and shock was much the same for all of us but we reacted quite differently to it. Some simply tried to deal with the reality of that this wonderful person was gone forever, including me. Some sought paranormal means to try to contact him and get answers. Some even claimed they had succeeded in contacting his spirit. It was pretty clear that those of us that sought these latter means to deal with our grief were the ones who already believed in things like this, more or less. The skeptics around us, including me, did not seek means like this.

Seven years later, it happened again. My cousin, that I had grown up with and considered more a big brother than a cousin, committed suicide, gassed himelf to death in his car. Us around him that loved him were devestated, shocked, stricken with grief. But now, many years afterwards, when I am myself no longer in a state of shock, I can look back and see that the exact same thing happened. Those who already had paranormal beliefs, full blown such, or only little seeds of beliefs, sought paranormal means to handle the loss of him. The others did not.

//ETA
I don't really think either that it was that much about logical thinking and decision-making back then for me. As you say, such events does not really aid your logical thinking. But if you do have a skeptical-based mind from the beginning, and have been trained in this kind of thinking (by the way you live if nothing else) there doesn't seem to be the same kind of need to seek the help of psychics and the like. I wasn't really logical back then when it happened, but to go to a psychic who would babble a lot of things about my friend and my cosuin without even knowing them would have just disturbed me in my grief process.//

Again, I agree that people can do things they would not otherwise do in certain situations. But in many ways it seems to me a bit unlikely that skeptical people would suddenly run to the likes of Sylvia Browne in shattering situations, though I wouldn't say they never would.

I think it's more a question about that paranormal beliefs actually are so common and so mainstream. You don't have to be a full blown nutty woo-type of character really, to hold beliefs like this. Perfectly ordinary, well-functioning people believe in things like this too. They may not have many reasons to talk about it, or experience it, and they just go about their every day life like all of us do... until something happens - and then the paranormal beliefs comes up to the surface in a rather uncontrolled manner. Leeches like Sylvia Browne are always ready to put their claws in such people.

Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point.

ETA again
Sometimes I think this reasoning seems to imply that seeking psychic help is emotion based (i.e. your emotions takes over in desperate situations) and that a skeptical mindset is only logical and not emotion-based at all, and if we only get in situations harsh enough we are all at risk of doing as these people do. I am not sure of this, though I can't say for certain. But, being a skeptic and having a mind that works that way is not all about cold logic thinking, I think. My emotions did tell me not to bother with paranormal stuff in my moments of shock and grief after all - and that happens to go along quite well with my logical thinking as well. I think that in many ways, my emotive parts are sort of infused with the many years of atheism and skeptical thinking, which helps me even when my logical thinking is not working. Not a full-proof system at all, but...

Locknar · 27th July 2007, 08:54 AM

Fran – I would disagree with your last comment, “Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point.”

To discount people that believe in SB (or other “psychics”) in their entirety, as being morons and beyond or otherwise not worthy of hope (ie. education in this case) is simply not a reasonable approach.

EVERYONE at one time or another, has believed in something that is not true; Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, God, trick need predicts rain, etc.

-Fran- · 27th July 2007, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Locknar

Fran – I would disagree with your last comment, “Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point.”

To discount people that believe in SB (or other “psychics”) in their entirety, as being morons and beyond or otherwise not worthy of hope (ie. education in this case) is simply not a reasonable approach.

Hmm.. yeah, you are right. I don't agree with Brattus there. I am just saying that people do have different views on life to begin with, and that I don't really believe that we would all, or even most of us, actually change our views and act in ways totally against our nature even if we ended up in very difficult situations. I don't agree with Brattus that this is in any way an excuse to dismiss people the way he does, no. I thought I saw a point somehwere underneath all that though that echoed what I was trying to say... I might have been wrong. Happens often enough

Miss Whiplash · 27th July 2007, 10:11 AM

Brattus is making a hasty generalization, which is faulty reasoning in itself. We do not know anything about this woman other than what we saw on Montel. She could have a PhD for all we know.

Psi Baba · 27th July 2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Spektator

You know, it occurs to me that one could build up a network of victims on the Internet: "Each week I'll send you some numbers that have a good chance of winning a lottery. You agree to buy a ticket with those numbers on it and if I'm right and you win, you'll pay me 25% of your winnings. If you lose, there is never any charge, because psychic abilities can't be right all the time."

Then you'd get to play hundreds or thousands of numbers every week with no charge to you, and a fair chance of getting some dough in the end.

I'm sure this how those sports team pick guys who advertise on the radio do it, because they always offer the first pick free. It's probably works very much like what you described:
Say 1,000 people respond to your ad. You tell 500 of them that team A will win, and 500 that team B will win. You've now piqued the interest of 500 (no doubt some will say, "okay, luck guess."). Of course those other 500 blow a raspberry and say you were wrong. You offer all of them another free pick to show how honest and generous you are, but dividing each group in half again. Now there are 250 who have had two wrong picks. Forget about those--you don't need them. Then there are 500 who have one correct pick (some from the first pick and some from the second pick) and so are still on the fence, but now you've got 250 who have had two correct picks in a row. Most of those are now hooked, convinced that you have some kind of ability and you offer to SELL them, say a package of ten picks for $100. In the meantime, you can work on the 500 who are still iffy and repeat the process by offering them one more free pick. Imagine how convinced the ones who receive three or four correct picks in a row will be! By that time, many of them will have bet on a game themselves and won money, thus being more eager to buy more good picks from you. You can't lose.

Nicholas Turnbull · 27th July 2007, 12:34 PM

I find it interesting that Sylvia stated "'Cause I've had people who've called me and said that they played the numbers and won" for two reasons:-

1) Sylvia is not actually prognosticating that this particular person on Montel will win. She is merely saying that other people who have called her have won. I would have thought that a psychic with the abilities that Sylvia claims she has would be able to determine whether the specific person in front of her will definitely win or not, not merely offer a vague comment on the basis of past experience. I wonder if Sylvia has taken stock of her routinely zero track record in terms of prediction success, and realises that stating the person will win shall be a mill-stone around her neck if that prediction is proven later to be false (which probability would dictate).
2) It almost sounds like an admission from Sylvia that it is mainly people with rapidly-accumulated wealth and little constructive to do with it that would spend the ridiculous sums of money that she charges for telephone cold-reading sessions.

RSLancastr · 27th July 2007, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Psi Baba

Imagine how convinced the ones who receive three or four correct picks in a row will be!

This is actually a classic scam, called (I think) the Tout Scam.

RSLancastr · 27th July 2007, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Nicholas Turnbull

it is mainly people with rapidly-accumulated wealth and little constructive to do with it that would spend the ridiculous sums of money that she charges for telephone cold-reading sessions.

Sadly, I do not think this is true. I think that many of Browne's readings are for people who can ill-afford the $750.

EeneyMinnieMoe · 27th July 2007, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Brattus

Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this?
If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia.
Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have.
Complete morons are not worth the effort.

That's entirely unfair. Sylvia Browne is the bad guy here, not the people she hurts. You should never blame the victim.

Sure, some people have silly and selfish reasons to turn to psychics but I wouldn't say this woman is one. She's entitled to the same Lotto fantasies as, say, the cop and nurse on the night shift.

pod · 27th July 2007, 02:08 PM

I would have to agree with you there. Sylvia is nothing but a fraud who seeks fame and fortune from other peoples misery.

c4ts · 27th July 2007, 08:22 PM

When our emotions overwhelm us, all things become distorted. Even a heavy wallet starts to feel like a burden, and generous Sylvia is here to bear the terrible load for us.

Minarvia · 27th July 2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by RSLancastr

Sadly, I do not think this is true. I think that many of Browne's readings are for people who can ill-afford the $750.

Quite ture. Reminds me of your recent article about Janet McDonald. She was sickened to have pissed away her money like that.
http://www.stopsylvia.com/arti...mcdonald.shtml

EeneyMinnieMoe · 27th July 2007, 09:00 PM

That reminds me of something.

Sylvia once claimed (and Montel backed her up on this) to have contacted Robert Blake during his trial and have told him he was gonna get off. I kid you not.

Robert Blake is, last I read, working as a ranch hand on a farm to make ends meet.

Even he can't afford Sylvia Browne!

26th July 2007, 06:04 PM	#1
Miss Whiplash Nettlesome Harpy Join Date: May 2006 Location: 53 Miles West of Venus Posts: 1,583	$ylvia Goes "Ka-ching!" From yesterday's Montel show: Quote: Guest: Hi, Sylvia. I had a very significant dream several years ago. I dreamt of a series of numbers. I've never had anything like it before. Also, with the word orange, repeated, repeatedly. Is this a message for me to buy lottery tickets and actually win, or is this a fantasy? Sylvia: I would do it. If it's coming to you that strong, I would do it. Guest: It did. It's like infused knowledge. It was there. Sylvia: Oh, yeah. Guest: 'Cause I've never forgotten it since. Sylvia: 'Cause I've had people who've called me and said that they played the numbers and won. Guest: And this is something I have felt for 30 years and I keep trying to get away from it because I don't win and -- Sylvia: Why don't you play it? Montel: If you want to jot that down right there. I'm only playing. Guest: And I don't have to, it's constant. Montel: Oh, no, I was not talking about for you. I was just saying -- Guest: Well, I'm going to try. If it comes true. And that's why I wanted to ask because I have played for years. Sylvia: No, no. Guest: And been sick with disappointment to the fact now that I'm afraid to do it. Montel: If you hit the lottery in the next month, you better come back on the show and tell me what you did, all right? Guest: Next year, and if I do, I will. And I'm going to tie to your foundation and hers, and that's why I asked. One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes.
	__________________ MondoSkepto "The Gin Palace of Rationality" "Bring me the head of the preacher man!" Siouxsie Sioux (Concerning my avatar) "...I was worried that someone that ugly would be dumb enough to put herself up for public ridicule." - The Atheist

26th July 2007, 06:14 PM	#2
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,530	"Tie" to their foundations? Probably said "tithe."
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

26th July 2007, 06:16 PM	#3
vexed Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Earth Posts: 314	Montel needs to stop putting Slyvia on his show... but I'm sure the ratings are too good with all of the sheep.
	__________________ "Thinking critically is a chore. It does not come naturally or easily. And if the fruits of such efforts are not carefully displayed to young minds, then they will not harvest them. Every school child must be implanted with the wonder of the atom, not the thrall of magic." - Perry DeAngelis

26th July 2007, 06:48 PM	#4
Miss Whiplash Nettlesome Harpy Join Date: May 2006 Location: 53 Miles West of Venus Posts: 1,583	Thanks RSL. "Tie" did not make a whole lot of sense.
	__________________ MondoSkepto "The Gin Palace of Rationality" "Bring me the head of the preacher man!" Siouxsie Sioux (Concerning my avatar) "...I was worried that someone that ugly would be dumb enough to put herself up for public ridicule." - The Atheist

26th July 2007, 07:32 PM	#5
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,659	So she's been playing for years and has never won. And she's "afraid" to play these numbers, presumably becuase she can't face the disappointment when her magical numbers don't win. Yet she needs to ask Sylvia's advice whether to play them or not. How does this woman function in the day-to-day world? And when her numbers don't win will her belief in the paranormal be diminished even the slightest bit? Is this a trick question? Steve S.
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,659	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

26th July 2007, 10:53 PM	#6
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by The Vampire From yesterday's Montel show: One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes. Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this? If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia. Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have. Complete morons are not worth the effort.
	__________________ Whatever Brattus types is correct. - Brattus Anyone who quotes themselves is way cool - Brattus

26th July 2007, 11:53 PM	#7
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	Originally Posted by Brattus Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this? If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia. Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have. Complete morons are not worth the effort. Do you think legislation should not protect "complete morons" from being exploited?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

27th July 2007, 02:45 AM	#8
chillzero Domestic Godless Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Top of the world, ma! Posts: 15,226	Originally Posted by The Vampire From yesterday's Montel show: One could almost hear "ka-ching!" and see dollar signs roll up in her eyes. I doubt it - that would mean she believed what she said.

27th July 2007, 05:40 AM	#9
Spektator Dog Who Laughs Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,318	You know, it occurs to me that one could build up a network of victims on the Internet: "Each week I'll send you some numbers that have a good chance of winning a lottery. You agree to buy a ticket with those numbers on it and if I'm right and you win, you'll pay me 25% of your winnings. If you lose, there is never any charge, because psychic abilities can't be right all the time." Then you'd get to play hundreds or thousands of numbers every week with no charge to you, and a fair chance of getting some dough in the end.
	__________________ Anyone who is telling the truth does not type complete sentences all in capital letters.

27th July 2007, 07:30 AM	#10
Miss Whiplash Nettlesome Harpy Join Date: May 2006 Location: 53 Miles West of Venus Posts: 1,583	Originally Posted by Brattus Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this? If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia. Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have. Complete morons are not worth the effort. Because, given the correct circumstances, most of us could become the same "moron." Desperation does not breed logical thinking.
	__________________ MondoSkepto "The Gin Palace of Rationality" "Bring me the head of the preacher man!" Siouxsie Sioux (Concerning my avatar) "...I was worried that someone that ugly would be dumb enough to put herself up for public ridicule." - The Atheist

27th July 2007, 08:11 AM	#11
Cello Man Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,035	Originally Posted by CFLarsen Do you think legislation should not protect "complete morons" from being exploited? That would entail the National Guard blocking the entrance to churches.
	__________________ This is my Timey-Wimey Detector. It goes "DING!" when there's stuff. - The Doctor

27th July 2007, 08:12 AM	#12
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by The Vampire Because, given the correct circumstances, most of us could become the same "moron." Desperation does not breed logical thinking. I've been thinking a lot about this, and I don't know what to think, really! On one hand I do believe what you say here. Great desperation, deep grief, shock, can make people do things they wouldn't normally do, that is a fact that I do not dispute at all. I would also like to stress that I do not blame victims for what people like Sylvia Browne puts them through, she's a vulture all right, and that some fall for her tricks is not a reason not to fight her! But I do see where people like Brattus come from with the way they reason, as well. I do think that some people are more prone to believe in things like this than others are, regardless of what happens in their life. I wouldn't go so far as to call them stupid, even if in my most frustrated moments that word has (unfairly so, I guess) been used by me when I am alone in front of my PC and read the most mindboggling things that people say, do and think. Not all people fall for psychic trickery in moments of desperation and grief. That doesn't mean that they are not AS desperate or grief stricken. It doesn't mean either that people who do fall for it are stupid, but I do think it shows that they DO have another view on life to begin with, and as skeptics we can discuss that view I think without putting blame on the victims. When I was 20 years old a very good friend of mine committed suicide. He hung himself. This was a very traumatic and shattering experience for me and his other friends (sadly, he had no family, we were pretty much it for him). The grief and shock was much the same for all of us but we reacted quite differently to it. Some simply tried to deal with the reality of that this wonderful person was gone forever, including me. Some sought paranormal means to try to contact him and get answers. Some even claimed they had succeeded in contacting his spirit. It was pretty clear that those of us that sought these latter means to deal with our grief were the ones who already believed in things like this, more or less. The skeptics around us, including me, did not seek means like this. Seven years later, it happened again. My cousin, that I had grown up with and considered more a big brother than a cousin, committed suicide, gassed himelf to death in his car. Us around him that loved him were devestated, shocked, stricken with grief. But now, many years afterwards, when I am myself no longer in a state of shock, I can look back and see that the exact same thing happened. Those who already had paranormal beliefs, full blown such, or only little seeds of beliefs, sought paranormal means to handle the loss of him. The others did not. //ETA I don't really think either that it was that much about logical thinking and decision-making back then for me. As you say, such events does not really aid your logical thinking. But if you do have a skeptical-based mind from the beginning, and have been trained in this kind of thinking (by the way you live if nothing else) there doesn't seem to be the same kind of need to seek the help of psychics and the like. I wasn't really logical back then when it happened, but to go to a psychic who would babble a lot of things about my friend and my cosuin without even knowing them would have just disturbed me in my grief process.// Again, I agree that people can do things they would not otherwise do in certain situations. But in many ways it seems to me a bit unlikely that skeptical people would suddenly run to the likes of Sylvia Browne in shattering situations, though I wouldn't say they never would. I think it's more a question about that paranormal beliefs actually are so common and so mainstream. You don't have to be a full blown nutty woo-type of character really, to hold beliefs like this. Perfectly ordinary, well-functioning people believe in things like this too. They may not have many reasons to talk about it, or experience it, and they just go about their every day life like all of us do... until something happens - and then the paranormal beliefs comes up to the surface in a rather uncontrolled manner. Leeches like Sylvia Browne are always ready to put their claws in such people. Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point. ETA again Sometimes I think this reasoning seems to imply that seeking psychic help is emotion based (i.e. your emotions takes over in desperate situations) and that a skeptical mindset is only logical and not emotion-based at all, and if we only get in situations harsh enough we are all at risk of doing as these people do. I am not sure of this, though I can't say for certain. But, being a skeptic and having a mind that works that way is not all about cold logic thinking, I think. My emotions did tell me not to bother with paranormal stuff in my moments of shock and grief after all - and that happens to go along quite well with my logical thinking as well. I think that in many ways, my emotive parts are sort of infused with the many years of atheism and skeptical thinking, which helps me even when my logical thinking is not working. Not a full-proof system at all, but...
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström) Last edited by -Fran-; 27th July 2007 at 08:53 AM.

27th July 2007, 08:54 AM	#13
Locknar Sum of all evils ^tm Deputy Admin Join Date: May 2007 Location: 25.50 N, 77.54 W Posts: 14,130	Fran – I would disagree with your last comment, “Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point.” To discount people that believe in SB (or other “psychics”) in their entirety, as being morons and beyond or otherwise not worthy of hope (ie. education in this case) is simply not a reasonable approach. EVERYONE at one time or another, has believed in something that is not true; Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, God, trick need predicts rain, etc.

27th July 2007, 09:03 AM	#14
-Fran- Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,581	Originally Posted by Locknar Fran – I would disagree with your last comment, “Brattus might express himself rather harshly, but I do think he has a point.” To discount people that believe in SB (or other “psychics”) in their entirety, as being morons and beyond or otherwise not worthy of hope (ie. education in this case) is simply not a reasonable approach. Hmm.. yeah, you are right. I don't agree with Brattus there. I am just saying that people do have different views on life to begin with, and that I don't really believe that we would all, or even most of us, actually change our views and act in ways totally against our nature even if we ended up in very difficult situations. I don't agree with Brattus that this is in any way an excuse to dismiss people the way he does, no. I thought I saw a point somehwere underneath all that though that echoed what I was trying to say... I might have been wrong. Happens often enough
	__________________ Thank goodness there are such things as lies. Imagine if everything you heard was true! (Albert Engström)

27th July 2007, 10:11 AM	#15
Miss Whiplash Nettlesome Harpy Join Date: May 2006 Location: 53 Miles West of Venus Posts: 1,583	Brattus is making a hasty generalization, which is faulty reasoning in itself. We do not know anything about this woman other than what we saw on Montel. She could have a PhD for all we know.
	__________________ MondoSkepto "The Gin Palace of Rationality" "Bring me the head of the preacher man!" Siouxsie Sioux (Concerning my avatar) "...I was worried that someone that ugly would be dumb enough to put herself up for public ridicule." - The Atheist

27th July 2007, 11:53 AM	#16
Psi Baba Homo Skepticalis Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Occupying my barstool Posts: 3,177	Originally Posted by Spektator You know, it occurs to me that one could build up a network of victims on the Internet: "Each week I'll send you some numbers that have a good chance of winning a lottery. You agree to buy a ticket with those numbers on it and if I'm right and you win, you'll pay me 25% of your winnings. If you lose, there is never any charge, because psychic abilities can't be right all the time." Then you'd get to play hundreds or thousands of numbers every week with no charge to you, and a fair chance of getting some dough in the end. I'm sure this how those sports team pick guys who advertise on the radio do it, because they always offer the first pick free. It's probably works very much like what you described: Say 1,000 people respond to your ad. You tell 500 of them that team A will win, and 500 that team B will win. You've now piqued the interest of 500 (no doubt some will say, "okay, luck guess."). Of course those other 500 blow a raspberry and say you were wrong. You offer all of them another free pick to show how honest and generous you are, but dividing each group in half again. Now there are 250 who have had two wrong picks. Forget about those--you don't need them. Then there are 500 who have one correct pick (some from the first pick and some from the second pick) and so are still on the fence, but now you've got 250 who have had two correct picks in a row. Most of those are now hooked, convinced that you have some kind of ability and you offer to SELL them, say a package of ten picks for $100. In the meantime, you can work on the 500 who are still iffy and repeat the process by offering them one more free pick. Imagine how convinced the ones who receive three or four correct picks in a row will be! By that time, many of them will have bet on a game themselves and won money, thus being more eager to buy more good picks from you. You can't lose.
	__________________ Save Caribbean Rum! (seriously) Last edited by Psi Baba; 27th July 2007 at 11:56 AM.

27th July 2007, 12:34 PM	#17
Nicholas Turnbull New Blood Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 12	I find it interesting that Sylvia stated "'Cause I've had people who've called me and said that they played the numbers and won" for two reasons:- 1) Sylvia is not actually prognosticating that this particular person on Montel will win. She is merely saying that other people who have called her have won. I would have thought that a psychic with the abilities that Sylvia claims she has would be able to determine whether the specific person in front of her will definitely win or not, not merely offer a vague comment on the basis of past experience. I wonder if Sylvia has taken stock of her routinely zero track record in terms of prediction success, and realises that stating the person will win shall be a mill-stone around her neck if that prediction is proven later to be false (which probability would dictate). 2) It almost sounds like an admission from Sylvia that it is mainly people with rapidly-accumulated wealth and little constructive to do with it that would spend the ridiculous sums of money that she charges for telephone cold-reading sessions.

27th July 2007, 12:37 PM	#18
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,530	Originally Posted by Psi Baba Imagine how convinced the ones who receive three or four correct picks in a row will be! This is actually a classic scam, called (I think) the Tout Scam.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

27th July 2007, 12:41 PM	#19
RSLancastr www.StopSylvia.com Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 15,530	Originally Posted by Nicholas Turnbull it is mainly people with rapidly-accumulated wealth and little constructive to do with it that would spend the ridiculous sums of money that she charges for telephone cold-reading sessions. Sadly, I do not think this is true. I think that many of Browne's readings are for people who can ill-afford the $750.
	__________________ Who is "Kaz?" Read about her at www.StopKaz.com. Curious about Sylvia Browne? Read about her at www.StopSylvia.com. Ever wonder "What's the Harm?" with psychics, alternative medicine, etc?

27th July 2007, 12:59 PM	#20
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	Originally Posted by Brattus Why would anyone waste time out of their lives in an attempt to help morons like this? If people are really this stupid then they deserve to pay $750 for a 20 min talk on the phone with Sylvia. Sylvia Browne is a bad person no doubt, but she would be powerless without the horde of morons like this fighting for a chance to throw her all the money they have. Complete morons are not worth the effort. That's entirely unfair. Sylvia Browne is the bad guy here, not the people she hurts. You should never blame the victim. Sure, some people have silly and selfish reasons to turn to psychics but I wouldn't say this woman is one. She's entitled to the same Lotto fantasies as, say, the cop and nurse on the night shift.

27th July 2007, 02:08 PM	#21
pod New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6	I would have to agree with you there. Sylvia is nothing but a fraud who seeks fame and fortune from other peoples misery.
pod New Blood Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6

27th July 2007, 08:22 PM	#22
c4ts Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Your base Posts: 8,427	When our emotions overwhelm us, all things become distorted. Even a heavy wallet starts to feel like a burden, and generous Sylvia is here to bear the terrible load for us.
	__________________ Ha ha ha ha.... Stupid signature size limit.

27th July 2007, 08:53 PM	#23
Minarvia fading orb Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 2,212	Originally Posted by RSLancastr Sadly, I do not think this is true. I think that many of Browne's readings are for people who can ill-afford the $750. Quite ture. Reminds me of your recent article about Janet McDonald. She was sickened to have pissed away her money like that. http://www.stopsylvia.com/arti...mcdonald.shtml

27th July 2007, 09:00 PM	#24
EeneyMinnieMoe Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,660	That reminds me of something. Sylvia once claimed (and Montel backed her up on this) to have contacted Robert Blake during his trial and have told him he was gonna get off. I kid you not. Robert Blake is, last I read, working as a ranch hand on a farm to make ends meet. Even he can't afford Sylvia Browne!
	Last edited by EeneyMinnieMoe; 27th July 2007 at 09:19 PM.