Torin Wolf

[slugmancs]

From his bio on this page: "Add to his resume the fact that he designed and implemented well over 100 controlled demolitions." I find the 100 cds kind of hard to believe... does anyone have numbers of how many CDs happen each year and how many are done by non major firms?
http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/...d=128&Itemid=2

Anyone know anything about him? The twoofers at Digg are all wet over him.
http://digg.com/politics/Iraq_war_ve...11_inside_job#

[Gravy]

Quote:

With his demolitions experience, he immediately knew those towers could not have fallen like that without explosives.

Ding!Ding!Ding! We have a truther!

Quote:

This is technically seditious material and you can be charged under section 802 of the Patriot Act just for being here.

We have a liar.

Quote:

”The presentation moves on and goes through some of the just plain crazy theories of why the towers fell, such as space beams, holograms, missiles, orbs, pterodactyls, etc., and easily debunks them. Torin then adds, “There is evidence most of these are put out by the government as disinfo.

We have a kook.

Quote:

The cross trusses that the towers received a significant amount of their strength from had to be removed to have a collapse in the computer simulation.

We have a reading disability.

Quote:

Several slides are then presented that show the hard physics and observed time of WTC 2 falling. Worst-case scenario would require 0.5 seconds per floor for collapse. “The absolute minimum amount of time for a progressive collapse would be 43 seconds.” How long did it take for the building to fall in reality? About 8.6 Seconds.

We have a faster than freefaller.

Quote:

“For the towers to fall at so close to free fall speed, over 110,000 separate and independent structural support points had to fail simultaneously.

We have a structural ain'tgineeer.

Quote:

It shows the antenna, which is held up by the core columns, fall before the rest of the building while the fire line on the 78th floor doesn't move.

We have a cherrypicker.

Quote:

Dangerously high levels of asbestos, lead, PCB’s, mercury, radioactive materials, and powdered concrete were in the air after the towers were demolished. Much to the surprise of many audience members, we learned from Torin that by far the most dangerous on the list was the pulverized concrete.

WE have a nurse who hasn't read the medical reports.

Quote:

“If I was demolishing a building as high as the WTC, I would use thermite. It does what I want, when I want.

We have a Kool-Aid drinker.

Quote:

”Torin then explains super thermite, “Add potassium permanganate (KMnO4) and cupric sulphide (CuSO4) to thermate and you have something called 'Super Thermite' which is explosive and used in mega-demolition, such as WTC 1 & 2.”

We have a know-nothing.

[LashL]

The whole shebang in a single oddly-named C-Tard. Gotta love it

[pomeroo]

Originally Posted by Gravy

Ding!Ding!Ding! We have a truther!

We have a liar.

We have a kook.

We have a reading disability.

We have a faster than freefaller.

We have a structural ain'tgineeer.

We have a cherrypicker.

WE have a nurse who hasn't read the medical reports.

We have a Kool-Aid drinker.

We have a know-nothing.

And we have a guy who has just been invited to debate you! Gee, I wonder if he'll accept.

[pomeroo]

I'm going out on a limb and guessing that Mr. Wolf will not be knocking on our door.

On 7/27/07, Ronald Wieck wrote:

Dear Gibb,

Torin Wolf is quite a find. He is the only demolition specialist in the entire world who believes that the Twin Towers were brought down by explosives. I occasionally host a public access show called 'Hardfire' that airs in New York City and surrounding areas. Over the past year, we have staged debates pitting 9/11 fantasists such as Jim Fetzer and the Loose Change boys against the extraordinarily well-informed debunker Mark Roberts. Would Mr. Wolf care to appear on the show and explain to us what everyone else is missing?

Cordially,
Ronald Wieck

----- Original Message -----
From: Gibb Wake
To: Ronald Wieck
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: Fascinating Discovery


Really the only one? Gtfo.

ae911truth.org
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

Ronald Wieck wrote:

Yup, the only one. The links you provide contain nothing but charlatans and kooks.

[Redtail]

Why did they make a big deal about his Cherokee heritage and then mention he has Samoan tats for every life he saved?

[The Doc]

They're making a HUGE deal out of this on Digg.

http://www.digg.com/politics/Iraq_wa..._11_inside_job

Kind of makes me want to debunk it point by point... but I don't know if it would be worth the effort. It is so sad to see such a huge amount of ignorant people in those comments on Digg. The lack of critical thinking is astounding.

[Brainster]

Looks like an Alex Jones wannabe, sounds like an Alex Jones wannabe:

Quote:

“This is admitted.”

I strongly suspect the GED is correct; I also strongly suspect the age he received it at is wrong. Would anybody who received his high school diploma at age 14 not be going to college? I mean, to be obvious about it, who the heck would want a 14-year-old on a construction site, no matter how bright? I doubt strongly he could get working papers at age 14.

The numbers and dates just don't add up. He enlisted in 2000, so his five years of steelwork would take us back to 1995. We'll be generous and assume that he did his asbestos abatement work at the same time he doubled as Controlled Demolition, Inc, so we're back to 1983. Arguably he was somehow hired at age 14; maybe it was his dad's construction company or something. That takes us back to 1969. Does this guy look like he's 38?

The milbloggers may take him up if he gets anywhere; this is certainly a huge red flag:

Quote:

The army would like you to think he wasn't in Iraq, but unfortunately for them, Torin appears in a recent documentary filmed there.

Plus of course he's got the fantasy resume--did controlled demolitions,worked on steel, and can talk about the cost of asbestos removal. If only he were a pilot!

[T.A.M.]

I agree. If you look at his military service, and then look at his resume, It all just doesnt add up. I suspect his Demolition Resume is EXTREMELY exaggerated, and likely based heavily on CDs he may have done on 1 storey buildings in the military.

I am no expert, but I would like to see a list of his demolitions, with verification.


TAM

Edit: removed line concerning his name after reading his Indian Heritage.

[T.A.M.]

So this guy is a trained nurse, a building contractor, has designed and implemented 100 CDs, served in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
He must have another degree, as last I checked, there was not a whole lot of physics training in Nursing School.

He should be in his 50's based on that resume, lol..he doesnt look that old.

TAM

I am sure some of the guys here have looked up people to see if their military credentials are real...certainly this guy shouldnt be hard to vet.
He apparently is a teacher as well (hmm...I thought that required yet another degree).

TAM

[T.A.M.]

and what the hell does this line imply....

"The army would like you to think he wasn't in Iraq, but unfortunately for them,"

TAM

[uk_dave]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

and what the hell does this line imply....

"The army would like you to think he wasn't in Iraq, but unfortunately for them,"

TAM

Probably that the army says he was never in iraq, but he says he was and he has a bag of sand to prove it.

[T.A.M.]

Apparently, they are saying, he was in a nova PBS documentary.

The plot thickens...

Got his highschool at age 14, yet did not get it the regular way, but through GED. Then worked for 12 years (how he was able to work at all, let alone on demolition crews or the like, before age 16 is beyond me) in the "biz", before going to Iraq in 2000.

According to this the youngest he could be, would be 33 years old...if he did all these things, one right after the other. Somewhere in their he had to get a nursing degree (you can't just say you are gonna be a nurse, and presto you are one).

TAM

[uk_dave]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

Somewhere in their he had to get a nursing degree (you can't just say you are gonna be a nurse, and presto you are one).

TAM

Well I can think of at least one software engineer who thinks he's a structural engineer.

[T.A.M.]

Well the part about him being in Iraq (as a Private 1st Class) appears to be true, as the transcript from the PBS doc proves.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcr..._combatdo.html

TAM

[apathoid]

Is it even possible to get a GED at age 14? I'm thinking this guy dropped out of HS at 14, later got a GED to join the Army and got hired by a construction firm after getting out(he shoulda stayed in nursing) and his controlled demolitions consist of swinging sledgehammers......

[T.A.M.]

There is nothing on this guy besides the article linked above, and a video of him arguing with a cop over some "car head count" as seen here,

http://www.anomalytv.com/site/catego...ivism-protest/

In a google search....

TAM

Edit: as for the GED, it may vary from state to state, but in Virginia, at least, you need to be 16, even if homeschooled.

http://www.pen.k12.va.us/VDOE/suptsm...03/inf005.html

Quote:

Under no circumstances is an individual under the age of sixteen eligible for testing.

[T.A.M.]

The White River Band Cherokee appear to be based in Oklahoma

http://www.bauuinstitute.com/Native/oklahoma.html

or Arkansas

so GED in those two states...

Oklahoma inidicates age =16 minimum, but states it can vary from center to center.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/TGA/Jo.../INeedAGED.htm

Arkansas seems the same

http://dwe.arkansas.gov/ged.htm

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

Well the part about him being in Iraq (as a Private 1st Class) appears to be true, as the transcript from the PBS doc proves.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcr..._combatdo.html

TAM

I have no doubts about that. I just find that the article seems to be implying that the Army, aspart of the big hush-up, is saying he wasn't there. I'd lay good odds that the Army hasn't said a thing about him, and probably doesn't give much of a care about what he says.

[T.A.M.]

I think, no surprise, that he is misrepresenting his resume TO THE EXTREME.

Of course, without him providing the exacts of his work history and GED proof, we have no way of vetting that portion of his "story".

TAM

[maccy]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

The White River Band Cherokee appear to be based in Oklahoma

http://www.bauuinstitute.com/Native/oklahoma.html

or Arkansas

so GED in those two states...

Oklahoma inidicates age =16 minimum, but states it can vary from center to center.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/TGA/Jo.../INeedAGED.htm

Arkansas seems the same

http://dwe.arkansas.gov/ged.htm

From the PBS transcript:

Quote:

NARRATOR: Private First Class Torin Howling Wolf is a Cherokee who grew up in the White River Tribe, in Kansas.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcr..._combatdo.html

However, you need to be 18 to take a GED in Kansas without special dispensation. Even then you have to be at least 16:

http://www.kansasregents.org/adult_ed/ged.html#younger

[RedIbis]

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

[AZCat]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

Considering that the subject in question is trying to make an argument from authority, it is not an ad hominem to address his alleged credentials.

[Drudgewire]

Gravy's already pointed out in the second post this fellow is rehashing the same stuff we've all heard before and that had no merit before.

Since that's already out of the way, pointing out fallicies in his list of credentials isn't ad hominem. It's just the only way to make this thread any different from the rest.

[T.A.M.]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

The article, the only article, he is mentioned in, makes it quite clear that we should listen to him because of his long list of credentials, which they go on and on about, so I do not think it is an ad hom argument.

Besides, we are simply trying to vet his credentials, not attacking him for them.

TAM

[Pardalis]

Quote:

'Pancake theory' does NOT explain the failure of the cores.” Torin explains passionately

Good thing he read the NIST report...

[RedIbis]

Originally Posted by AZCat

Considering that the subject in question is trying to make an argument from authority, it is not an ad hominem to address his alleged credentials.

I don't see anyone addressing the claims. I see "kook" "kool aid drinker" "know nothing" and a lot of witch hunting.

How about his claims? Just because you believe you addressed previous arguments is not an excuse to suffer the fallacy of ad hominem.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the person", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim."

Wikipedia's pretty good for simple definitions.

He's pinching out the same crap that's been dealt with over and over on this forum. We're beyond that BS now and we'd appreciate it if you could catch up. The whole point of his story is an attempt to back up this crap with his alleged authority.

Ideally, since this crap's been shown to be nonsense already, this guy doesn't even need to be addressed. However, there are apparently a lot of gullible people out there who feel that this guy somehow makes everything they believe true again...

[Pardalis]

Quote:

Ironically, Torin signed his papers to join the army on September 11th, 2000. He knew something was wrong with the official 9/11 story when his army handlers took his squad into a room just in time to watch the buildings collapse.

There wasn't even an "official story" back then.

[T.A.M.]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

I don't see anyone addressing the claims. I see "kook" "kool aid drinker" "know nothing" and a lot of witch hunting.

How about his claims? Just because you believe you addressed previous arguments is not an excuse to suffer the fallacy of ad hominem.

as was just mentioned, his claims are old, well discussed claims, each and every one. If you wanna find the discussion of any of his claims, do a search of the site here, and you will find it.

This thread, has become a vetting of his credentials, so why are you taking him at his word?

TAM

[T.A.M.]

yes he appears to have known, even before the buildings collapsed, that the "official story" which at that time was "two planes hit the towers, this is probably the work of terrorism" was not right...

That part is truely laughable.

TAM

[Alt+F4]

Originally Posted by apathoid

Is it even possible to get a GED at age 14?

No. You have to be at least 16 to take the GED exams.

[slugmancs]

FTA:

Quote:

The official story we've been told about 9/11 is absolutely, physically impossible.

Quote:

Those words are not just backed up with his qualifications because his presentation goes through the hard physics as well.

See, it doesn't give us the details of the presentation so what is he claiming?

Quote:

The presentation moves on and goes through some of the just plain crazy theories of why the towers fell, such as space beams, holograms, missiles, orbs, pterodactyls, etc., and easily debunks them. Torin then adds, “There is evidence most of these are put out by the government as disinfo.” Then explains how the White House, in violation of the law, has bought 28 billion, “Billion with a B” in fake news.

Now any crazy theory couldn't have been thought up by "truthers," they are far too smart.

Quote:

NIST never models what happens after the collapse initiation, and even what they do model before that is easily debunked.

This is how he dismisses NIST, "easily debunked." A 10,000 page paper is never "easily debunked."

Quote:

Torin uses his expertise to explain to the audience how and why a real progressive collapse occurs and subsequently why the WTC was not a progressive collapse. “The biggest problem with the argument,” Torin explains. “Time.”

Once again, the article doesn't go into detail as to what Torin said just that he explained it well enough for the author to be swayed.

Referring to WTC 2:

Quote:

How long did it take for the building to fall in reality? About 8.6 Seconds.

Very few "truthers" accept such a low number, most put it around 12-14.

Quote:

For the towers to fall at so close to free fall speed, over 110,000 separate and independent structural support points had to fail simultaneously.

No source is cited for these 110,000 that have to fail.

Quote:

Torin then gives his expert analysis on building 7 for about five minutes.

Once again, no explanation given on what his expert opinion was followed by the usual "truther" crap on WTC 7

He then brings up the EPA, not really central to a CT or OCT story. Also mentions the steel being shipped off before being tested, blatantly false search here if you want why.

All of this followed by the thermite/thermate/super quadruple therm(ate/ite) claim...

Then more common CT theory, FBI's most wanted list (once your most wanted you can't be most most wanted).

Here he repeats the motive for Bush and takes a shot at his fellow soldier:

Quote:

An invasion of Afghanistan that was on Bush's desk two days before 9/11, over 655,000 admitted dead in the spreading war in the middle east, cheap heroin out of Afghanistan that the former Taliban government destroyed, soon to be full scale war in Iran, several thousand dead troops, and an oppressive police state at home being enforced by some of the returning aggravated felons that were doing the same in Iraq.

Followed by an argument that may or may not be true that 15000 - 17000 U.S. troops are dead. All wrapped up with a Q&A and the evils of law enforcement speech.
Nothing new or earth shattering presented (maybe there was but we didn't get to see the presentation or even get a synopsis of it), just the opinion of one man who claims to have great/impossible credentials.

[Pardalis]

Quote:

Torins insight as a combat nurse reveals that the actual amount of dead troops numbers around 15,000-17,000, not the 3,500 we have been told.

Any evidence M. Wolf? I'm sure 12 000 to 14 000 families would like to know.

[CHF]

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Any evidence M. Wolf? I'm sure 12 000 to 14 000 families would like to know.

I'd like to see a few names of troops killed in Iraq who are not listed here: icasualties.org

That can't be too hard if there are 12,000+ to choose from.

[apathoid]

RedIbis, click the search button at the top of the page. Every one of Wolf's claim have been addressed in-depth by some very knowledgeable people, and most have been addressed numerous times.

That said, if the guy wants to make an argument from authority, then proceeds to spew the same old tired idiocy - expect skeptics to be skeptical. Not to mention, the guys credentials just don't add up. He was a nurse in the Army, never went to college, and somehow became a CD expert who has performed over 100 CDs? Since ......when? CD's don't just happen overnight.

Just in case some of you skipped the article - Walter Mitty here claims to be, or at some point was a:

- combat nurse in the Army.
- building construction contractor(on skyscrapers no less).
- certified structural welder.
- certified asbestos and hazardous materials worker.
- experienced demolitions expert with 100 CDs to his credit
- teacher
- radio show host

......and he looks so young!!

In essence, he is implying that he is an expert in skyscaper construction, controlled demolitions and asbestos removal - all of which are standard CTist talking points.

[RedIbis]

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

as was just mentioned, his claims are old, well discussed claims, each and every one. If you wanna find the discussion of any of his claims, do a search of the site here, and you will find it.

This thread, has become a vetting of his credentials, so why are you taking him at his word?

TAM

I am not taking him at his word. I was making an observation that the rapid response to the article on this thread was based on attacking the person, not his claims.

I would even say that some of the article appears at first glance to be exaggerated. I have now idea who the guy is or what he claims. It doesn't matter, I wouldn't judge him personally until I had gone through his claims.

[Pardalis]

Originally Posted by apathoid

- building construction contractor
- certified structural welder.

snip

- experienced demolitions expert with 100 CDs to his credit

Maybe his construction contractor and welder careers didn't turn out so well...

[apathoid]

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Maybe his construction contractor and welder careers didn't turn out so well...

You have it backwards.

Quote:

Add to his resume the fact that he designed and implemented well over 100 controlled demolitions. He was not just helping at a lower level in the demolitions - he was the guy responsible for calling the shots. Afterwards, he became a certified structural steel welder and worked in heavy and mega construction for over 5 years in locations around the world including several skyscrapers.

So our CD shots calling bigwig left that gig to become........... a welder?

ETA: ......after which he hung up the torch to join the Army to be a nurse. Hum. The guy's career progression would seem to be precisley backwards!

[uk_dave]

He's all things to all men.....

...and a looming disaster for the 'truth' movement