Mars causing problems at work

SRW · 27th August 2003, 10:44 PM

I was helping my boss with her computer and we started talking about Mars. During the conversation she mentioned how astrologist's were making predictions of bad things occurring because of the proximity of Mars to Earth.

I started to make a joke about it when I noticed that she was dead serious.

When I started to explain how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything, she started to get upset.

How in the would can anyone still believe that astrology is real?

Ratman_tf · 27th August 2003, 10:50 PM

Quote:

When I started to explain how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything, she started to get upset.

It influenced you and your boss.

SquishyDave · 27th August 2003, 10:50 PM

You seem to know an awful lot about this for an "innocent bystander" and you seem to have a planet for your avatar.

Are you some sort of secret pro-astrologer infiltrating JREF?

Seriously, I agree, what also gets me is that they get upset when you challenge them, they don't just brush you off or use counter arguments, they actually get quite upset, what can you do when someone does that?

T'ai Chi · 27th August 2003, 11:55 PM

Quote:

...how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything,...

Can you please provide evidence for that assertion?

Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth.

I'd ask your boss if she can't even operate Windows correctly, how does she know all about the planets and etc. ?

reprise · 28th August 2003, 12:08 AM

A certain celestial body about 93 million miles away certainly manages to influence my general comfort level during December to February each year. Sometimes, its influence even makes my skin turn red and peel off!

MRC_Hans · 28th August 2003, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by T'ai Chi

Can you please provide evidence for that assertion?

Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth.

*snip*[/b]

However, there are not n objects between Earth and Mars, and even if there were it would not have any influence on the interactions between Earth and Mars.

Lastly, nobody denies that Mars and Earth interact gravitationall (albeit very little), the question is: Why should infintessimal garvity interactions influence our lives? The Moon has a perceptible influence her on Earth, but nobody has yet managed to supply evidence of any influence on human destinies.

Hans

Zep · 28th August 2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth.

Say what????

The effective change in Mars' orbit can be demonstrated as follows.

1. Stand someplace on a long straight road.

2. Have a friend walk about 2km (1.25 miles) away. From you to them is the "normal" nearest distance from Mars to Earth.

3. Now have the friend step one pace closer to you. That is now the "closest" nearest distance from Mars to Earth, as we are experiencing currently.

Big difference, heh!

Personal note: People at work who obsess about astrology in their lives lose my brownie points when it comes to assessing them for raises or promotions. I cannot have them relying on or being diverted by spurious crap like that to do the work I and my company want them to do. My 2c worth.

Skeptical Greg · 28th August 2003, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by T'ai Chi

Can you please provide evidence for that assertion?

Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth.

I'd ask your boss if she can't even operate Windows correctly, how does she know all about the planets and etc. ?

[/b]

And now that you have fully established your lack of understanding regarding the force of gravity, with respect to the interaction between Earth and Mars, are we to assume you are looking for answers, or making a show of your ignorance?

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 28th August 2003, 06:12 AM

Hans said:

Quote:

However, there are not n objects between Earth and Mars, and even if there were it would not have any influence on the interactions between Earth and Mars.

Now, now, Hans. At any given instant, about half the objects on the surface of the Earth are between Earth and Mars. I'd be okay if it wasn't for all the rest of you being sucked up by Mars!

~~ Paul

Skeptical Greg · 28th August 2003, 06:24 AM

Here's a couple of little problems for you T'ai Chi

Given the following ;

Problem 1:
Mass of earth = 6 x 1024 kg

Mass of mars = 6.43 x 1023 kg

Distance from earth = 54 x 106 km ( approximate, as of 00:00 GMT this morning )

Problem 2:
Mass of you = ( you will have to provide this )

Mass of bowling ball = 7 kg

Assume the bowling ball is in the room with you, about 3 metres away.

And using the formula;

F2gravity = Gm1m2 / r2

Where;
F= Force in Newtons (N)
G= Gravitational constant = 6.67 x 10-11 Nm2 / kg2
m1,m2 = mass of each body in killograms (kg)
r = distance between the two bodies in metres (m)

Compare the attraction between you and the bowling ball and the attraction between Earth and Mars today.. Even more interesting would be the effect of the gravitational attraction between Mars and you ( plug 68 kg ( ~150 lbs ) and 6.43 x 1023 kg ) into the formula above ).

Then ask yourself: Why Astrologers don't seem to bother asking if there were any bowling balls in the area when you were born, and why they concern themselves with the position of the planets?

Andonyx · 28th August 2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by reprise
A certain celestial body about 93 million miles away certainly manages to influence my general comfort level during December to February each year. Sometimes, its influence even makes my skin turn red and peel off!

December and February?!?!?!

How do you live in that screwy hemisphere?

You should spend those months making snow-men and roasting chestnuts.

SRW · 28th August 2003, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SquishyDave
You seem to know an awful lot about this for an "innocent bystander" and you seem to have a planet for your avatar.

Are you some sort of secret pro-astrologer infiltrating JREF?

I've been uncovered at last, Oh wait I'm actually a bad amateur astronomer.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 28th August 2003, 09:21 AM

Oh my god, Diogenes, forget the bowling ball! I'm being sucked into the huge antique radio in the corner of my office . . . aaaaarrrrgggh!

~~ Paul

Ratman_tf · 28th August 2003, 07:05 PM

What makes me kind of melancholy is while people are making up astrological crap about the red planet, there's so much cool stuff going on for reals.

Anyone gone to nasa.gov and taken a look at the Hubble shots? Spec-tacular.

27th August 2003, 10:44 PM	#1
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Mars causing problems at work I was helping my boss with her computer and we started talking about Mars. During the conversation she mentioned how astrologist's were making predictions of bad things occurring because of the proximity of Mars to Earth. I started to make a joke about it when I noticed that she was dead serious. When I started to explain how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything, she started to get upset. How in the would can anyone still believe that astrology is real?
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

27th August 2003, 10:50 PM	#2
Ratman_tf Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,002	Re: Mars causing problems at work Quote: When I started to explain how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything, she started to get upset. It influenced you and your boss.
	__________________ "In the end, I was so decent, I stopped being a Christian altogether!" -Ruby --- "God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." -Nanrei Kobori

27th August 2003, 10:50 PM	#3
SquishyDave Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canberra Posts: 1,644	You seem to know an awful lot about this for an "innocent bystander" and you seem to have a planet for your avatar. Are you some sort of secret pro-astrologer infiltrating JREF? Seriously, I agree, what also gets me is that they get upset when you challenge them, they don't just brush you off or use counter arguments, they actually get quite upset, what can you do when someone does that?
	__________________ Squishy doesn't irritate the hell out of me. - Quester_X

27th August 2003, 11:55 PM	#4
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,235	Re: Mars causing problems at work Quote: ...how unlikely it was that a planet 34 million miles away was going to influence anything,... Can you please provide evidence for that assertion? Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth. I'd ask your boss if she can't even operate Windows correctly, how does she know all about the planets and etc. ?
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com

28th August 2003, 12:08 AM	#5
reprise Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,859	A certain celestial body about 93 million miles away certainly manages to influence my general comfort level during December to February each year. Sometimes, its influence even makes my skin turn red and peel off!
reprise Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,859

28th August 2003, 12:31 AM	#6
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,600	Re: Re: Mars causing problems at work Quote: Originally posted by T'ai Chi Can you please provide evidence for that assertion? Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth. snip[/b] However, there are not n objects between Earth and Mars, and even if there were it would not have any influence on the interactions between Earth and Mars. Lastly, nobody denies that Mars and Earth interact gravitationall (albeit very little), the question is: Why should infintessimal garvity interactions influence our lives? The Moon has a perceptible influence her on Earth, but nobody has yet managed to supply evidence of any influence on human destinies. Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

28th August 2003, 03:07 AM	#7
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Quote: Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth. Say what???? The effective change in Mars' orbit can be demonstrated as follows. 1. Stand someplace on a long straight road. 2. Have a friend walk about 2km (1.25 miles) away. From you to them is the "normal" nearest distance from Mars to Earth. 3. Now have the friend step one pace closer to you. That is now the "closest" nearest distance from Mars to Earth, as we are experiencing currently. Big difference, heh! Personal note: People at work who obsess about astrology in their lives lose my brownie points when it comes to assessing them for raises or promotions. I cannot have them relying on or being diverted by spurious crap like that to do the work I and my company want them to do. My 2c worth.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

28th August 2003, 04:28 AM	#8
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Re: Re: Mars causing problems at work Quote: Originally posted by T'ai Chi Can you please provide evidence for that assertion? Say there are n objects between Mars and the Earth. The first object is Mars, and the nth object is the Earth. The attraction directly between 1st and nth is super small, however, the attraction directly between the kth and the (k+1)st object is big. So, while there is no direct attraction between the ends, there is attraction all along the middle, so perhaps this chain makes the 1st attracted to the nth. I'd ask your boss if she can't even operate Windows correctly, how does she know all about the planets and etc. ? [/b] And now that you have fully established your lack of understanding regarding the force of gravity, with respect to the interaction between Earth and Mars, are we to assume you are looking for answers, or making a show of your ignorance?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

28th August 2003, 06:12 AM	#9
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,592	Hans said: Quote: However, there are not n objects between Earth and Mars, and even if there were it would not have any influence on the interactions between Earth and Mars. Now, now, Hans. At any given instant, about half the objects on the surface of the Earth are between Earth and Mars. I'd be okay if it wasn't for all the rest of you being sucked up by Mars! ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

28th August 2003, 06:24 AM	#10
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past 'Resume Speed' Posts: 12,873	Here's a couple of little problems for you T'ai Chi Given the following ; Problem 1: Mass of earth = 6 x 10<sup>24</sup> kg Mass of mars = 6.43 x 10<sup>23</sup> kg Distance from earth = 54 x 10<sup>6</sup> km ( approximate, as of 00:00 GMT this morning ) Problem 2: Mass of you = ( you will have to provide this ) Mass of bowling ball = 7 kg Assume the bowling ball is in the room with you, about 3 metres away. And using the formula; F<sub>2</sub>gravity = Gm<sub>1</sub>m<sub>2</sub> / r<sup>2</sup> Where; F= Force in Newtons (N) G= Gravitational constant = 6.67 x 10<sup>-11</sup> Nm<sup>2</sup> / kg<sup>2</sup> m<sub>1</sub>,m<sub>2</sub> = mass of each body in killograms (kg) r = distance between the two bodies in metres (m) Compare the attraction between you and the bowling ball and the attraction between Earth and Mars today.. Even more interesting would be the effect of the gravitational attraction between Mars and you ( plug 68 kg ( ~150 lbs ) and 6.43 x 10<sup>23</sup> kg ) into the formula above ). Then ask yourself: Why Astrologers don't seem to bother asking if there were any bowling balls in the area when you were born, and why they concern themselves with the position of the planets?
	__________________ " Somewhere between Jesus dying on the cross, and a giant bunny hiding eggs,there seems to be a gap in information. " Stan - Southpark Prove your computer is not a wimp ! Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

28th August 2003, 08:08 AM	#11
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	Quote: Originally posted by reprise A certain celestial body about 93 million miles away certainly manages to influence my general comfort level during December to February each year. Sometimes, its influence even makes my skin turn red and peel off! December and February?!?!?! How do you live in that screwy hemisphere? You should spend those months making snow-men and roasting chestnuts.
Andonyx Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,834	__________________ Andonyx www.andonyx.com Shy Gypsy Slyly Shyly Tryst By My Crypt.

28th August 2003, 09:05 AM	#12
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901	Quote: Originally posted by SquishyDave You seem to know an awful lot about this for an "innocent bystander" and you seem to have a planet for your avatar. Are you some sort of secret pro-astrologer infiltrating JREF? I've been uncovered at last, Oh wait I'm actually a bad amateur astronomer.
SRW Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,901

28th August 2003, 09:21 AM	#13
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,592	Oh my god, Diogenes, forget the bowling ball! I'm being sucked into the huge antique radio in the corner of my office . . . aaaaarrrrgggh! ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

28th August 2003, 07:05 PM	#14
Ratman_tf Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,002	What makes me kind of melancholy is while people are making up astrological crap about the red planet, there's so much cool stuff going on for reals. Anyone gone to nasa.gov and taken a look at the Hubble shots? Spec-tacular.
	__________________ "In the end, I was so decent, I stopped being a Christian altogether!" -Ruby --- "God is an invention of Man. So the nature of God is only a shallow mystery. The deep mystery is the nature of Man." -Nanrei Kobori