I can't figure out where else to post this question...

Lensman · 14th August 2007, 04:24 PM

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters.

I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!".

It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word.

One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure.

Any ideas people?

WildCat · 14th August 2007, 04:42 PM

FWIW, I've used "hell", "damn", and even "ass" (that's right, didn't even use the Brit cop-out "arse"

) here without any censure from the mods. I think people are being overly cautious in interpreting what is a forbidden word, since it isn't spelled out in the rules.

Oliver · 14th August 2007, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lensman

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters.

I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!".

It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word.

One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure.

Any ideas people?

I even remember seeing it in the Bible. But you're right, it should be added to censorship just like all the other evil words that whiny whimpers think are somehow destroying the entire Christian universe.

Can someone confirm that "**** *** ******" isn't allowed anymore?

Tailgater · 14th August 2007, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Lensman

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters.

I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!".

It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word.

One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure.

Any ideas people?

I have no idea. As far as I know, hell is not that bad of a word. I think it falls into one of those gray areas where people are not sure if it is considered bad, so they choose to avoid it.

Gord_in_Toronto · 14th August 2007, 07:53 PM

How the Hell would I know?

I'm Canadian.

Dorian Gray · 14th August 2007, 07:57 PM

Then you would know it as "Hell, eh".

alfaniner · 14th August 2007, 08:16 PM

I am no stranger to invective, but in an innocuous thread, it is not necessary to use the stronger word when you want to be more playful and not too serious. What the heck are you saying?

Pardalis · 14th August 2007, 08:18 PM

I think it's a matter of respect and calibration. When I'm really pissed I use 'hell' without thinking twice, but when I'm not I try to use 'heck' to avoid offending the person I'm talking to. It's self-censorship I guess.

ETA: alfaniner said it much better.

David Swidler · 15th August 2007, 01:35 AM

Not TOO long ago, it was considered even more offensive to use "religious" cuss-words than the ones popularly considerd most offensive today. So I think it's a holdover from that earlier time.

Katana · 15th August 2007, 04:37 AM

Most Americans I know have no problem with the word "hell".

Gurdur · 15th August 2007, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Lensman

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

Because it's too much like Texas in summer.

jsiv · 15th August 2007, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by David Swidler

Not TOO long ago, it was considered even more offensive to use "religious" cuss-words than the ones popularly considerd most offensive today. So I think it's a holdover from that earlier time.

And in many secular parts of the world, like Norway, most of the naughty words are still of a religious nature. Because of the right-wing bible-thumping neocons in America, of course. Or it's because of historical reasons, and because language take time to change. I'll let Oliver decide.

Having said that, the, uhm, human anatomy is becoming increasingly more popular with the younger generation here.

This Guy · 15th August 2007, 07:25 AM

Hadn't really thought about this before. Good question!

I think in my area (Southern US) the rule of thumb is that's it's OK to say hell if your discussing the place (sinners will all go to hell!) But to use it as a curse word (Get the hell out of here!) is taboo.

But, while we're on the subject, what's the difference between a Northern Baptist and a Southern Baptist?

JJM 777 · 15th August 2007, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lensman

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

Why would you be interested in one specific word only? Why not more generally ask: what is it about "strong language" or "swear words" that makes them such?

---

The phenomenon is global, and quite uniform, but not perfectly. Swear words usually translate into other languages directly, so that the expression has precisely the same meaning and emotional impact in both languages. But not always.

The most popular nicknames of male and female genitals are usually among the "strong swear-words" in every language. Also human excrement, but not urine.

In English language also the nickname of intimate union, "f**k", has somehow evolved into a strong swear-word. Other languages contain a similar nickname for intimate union, but in Hollywood movies this word is usually subtitled with the nickname of female genitals etc. (at least in Finland), because the nickname for intimate union is not a swear-word in our language, and it would sound very silly if Hollywood actors were quoted using it as such.

---

As for Biblical concepts, the nickname for "eternal damnation" seems to be among the strong swear-words in all languages that I know. With the exception that the word can be used quite neutrally when speaking about eternal damnation in a religious context.

This word does not exist in the original text of the Bible (which doesn't contain any other swear-words either): the Greek text quotes Jesus as saying "Gehenna", which is Greek version of the Hebrew name "Gey Hinnom" or "Valley of Hinnom", a place south of Jerusalem's city walls that was used as the dump of the ancient Temple, the most impure place on earth where "the fire was never quenched".

Again the evolution of swear-words has some regional differences: in the Scandinavian languages (such as Swedish and Finnish, which are linguistically not related to each other) the Hebrew "name" of devil, "Satan", is among the strongest possible swear-words. In English language it does not have such status.

Explain that.

---

Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language. It sounds like "God-help", but it is written with one letter missing from the middle of this expression. (In Finnish language the word "God" ends with the same letter that the word "help" begins, so this double letter is written only once.)

I have never heard any theory why such a swear-word exists in our language, and what is its etymological history.

jsiv · 15th August 2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Again the evolution of swear-words has some regional differences: in the Scandinavian languages (such as Swedish and Finnish, which are linguistically not related to each other) the Hebrew "name" of devil, "Satan", is among the strongest possible swear-words. In English language it does not have such status.

The devil has many names, but the word "Satan" is actually relatively mild in Norwegian (like darn, I guess.) Some of his other names are slightly worse though, and the equivalent to the f-word is a name for the devil or hell depending on the region.

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language. It sounds like "God-help", but it is written with one letter missing from the middle of this expression. (In Finnish language the word "God" ends with the same letter that the word "help" begins, so this double letter is written only once.)

I have never heard any theory why such a swear-word exists in our language, and what is its etymological history.

Could that not just be about damnation too?

Similar to "may God have mercy on your soul" or "only God can help you now" or "God help you...", just in a convenient shortened form?

Darth Rotor · 15th August 2007, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Lensman

What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail?

False premise. Hell does not make Americans quail. You seem to be extrapolating from a specific case to a broad generalization.

Maybe I misunderstood your question. Is it your question concerning the word "Hell" as a hex, or as a magic spell or incantation, which once uttered transforms an American into a bird often hunted for sport and dinner?

In D & D terms, we might be dealing with a "Power Word, Polymorph."

If that is your question, it needs to be posted in the Paranormal sub forum.

DR

Jimbo07 · 15th August 2007, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

The phenomenon is global, and quite uniform, but not perfectly. Swear words usually translate into other languages directly, so that the expression has precisely the same meaning and emotional impact in both languages. But not always.

Is this right?

My only source is the CBC

However...

My understanding is that swears are culture dependent. Not speaking any other languages fluently (and only a smattering of French), I have to take it largely second-hand, that swearing is quite different. In some places the worst swears seem to be religious, in others body functions...

I practice self-censorship, especially in 13+ forums for two reasons:
i) I don't want neurotic parents yanking their internet privileges
ii) I can express myself without swearing

WildCat · 15th August 2007, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language.

You and the other Finns must start using it more frequently, so it does not die out! I suggest you scream it out your window right now as a matter of fact.

14th August 2007, 04:24 PM	#1
Lensman Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: Caerphilly Posts: 1,411	I can't figure out where else to post this question... What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters. I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!". It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word. One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure. Any ideas people?
	__________________ When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty. I have learned that if you upset your wife, she nags you. If you upset her even more you get the silent treatment. Don't you think it's worth the extra effort?

14th August 2007, 05:07 PM	#3
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,369	Originally Posted by Lensman What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters. I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!". It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word. One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure. Any ideas people? I even remember seeing it in the Bible. But you're right, it should be added to censorship just like all the other evil words that whiny whimpers think are somehow destroying the entire Christian universe. Can someone confirm that "** * ******" isn't allowed anymore?
	__________________

14th August 2007, 05:12 PM	#4
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212	Originally Posted by Lensman What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? I've even seen it from highly skeptic members on this forum, I mean the use of circumlocutions & substitutions of letters. I've seen "Heck" being used (for a hell of a long time) instead of the actual word "Hell", I've even seen in print & heard verbally, people use "H E double hockey sticks". In a recent post by someone I assume is a skeptic (I can't remember the name/nick of the person) s/he spelled it as "he!!". It's a strange phenomena & isn't always reserved for the "H" word. One woman I knew here in Wales, would "eff" & "blind" like a trooper, but couldn't bring herself to say the word (I don't know if this will get past the auto-censor) "piss"( pea-eye-ess-ess), but would instead say "niss" - go figure. Any ideas people? I have no idea. As far as I know, hell is not that bad of a word. I think it falls into one of those gray areas where people are not sure if it is considered bad, so they choose to avoid it.
Tailgater Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,212

14th August 2007, 07:53 PM	#5
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,415	How the Hell would I know? I'm Canadian.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

14th August 2007, 07:57 PM	#6
Dorian Gray Hypocrisy Detector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 20,195	Then you would know it as "Hell, eh".
	__________________ "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka "Rational arguments don't work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be any religious people." - House Additionally to Carlin being funnier than Izzard, I think Dorian is funnier than the Marquis. - Ron Tomkins

14th August 2007, 04:42 PM	#2
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 48,985	FWIW, I've used "hell", "damn", and even "ass" (that's right, didn't even use the Brit cop-out "arse" ) here without any censure from the mods. I think people are being overly cautious in interpreting what is a forbidden word, since it isn't spelled out in the rules.

14th August 2007, 08:16 PM	#7
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 11,380	I am no stranger to invective, but in an innocuous thread, it is not necessary to use the stronger word when you want to be more playful and not too serious. What the heck are you saying?
	__________________ Science doesn't lie.

14th August 2007, 08:18 PM	#8
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	I think it's a matter of respect and calibration. When I'm really pissed I use 'hell' without thinking twice, but when I'm not I try to use 'heck' to avoid offending the person I'm talking to. It's self-censorship I guess. ETA: alfaniner said it much better.

15th August 2007, 01:35 AM	#9
David Swidler Carrot Mohel Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Right here, obviously. Posts: 8,302	Not TOO long ago, it was considered even more offensive to use "religious" cuss-words than the ones popularly considerd most offensive today. So I think it's a holdover from that earlier time.

15th August 2007, 04:37 AM	#10
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	Most Americans I know have no problem with the word "hell".
Katana Illuminator Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 4,894	__________________ "I think Katana is as big of a perv as the rest of us." - Dragonrock "The rationality was there, and clear and concise. The condescention was hinted at and was like french onion dip on the perfect potato chip. Tasted like woo smackdown." - Fowlsound (aka Ducky, darnit) "Katana is one quick shut-yo-mouth!" - JonnyFive StopSylviaBrowne

15th August 2007, 04:42 AM	#11
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875	Originally Posted by Lensman What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? Because it's too much like Texas in summer.
Gurdur Person Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 4,875

15th August 2007, 05:27 AM	#12
jsiv King of Svalbard Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bortenfor alle blåner Posts: 4,492	Originally Posted by David Swidler Not TOO long ago, it was considered even more offensive to use "religious" cuss-words than the ones popularly considerd most offensive today. So I think it's a holdover from that earlier time. And in many secular parts of the world, like Norway, most of the naughty words are still of a religious nature. Because of the right-wing bible-thumping neocons in America, of course. Or it's because of historical reasons, and because language take time to change. I'll let Oliver decide. Having said that, the, uhm, human anatomy is becoming increasingly more popular with the younger generation here.
	__________________ Panama er landet eg drøymer om!

15th August 2007, 07:25 AM	#13
This Guy Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the corner of WALK and DON'T WALK Posts: 2,000	Hadn't really thought about this before. Good question! I think in my area (Southern US) the rule of thumb is that's it's OK to say hell if your discussing the place (sinners will all go to hell!) But to use it as a curse word (Get the hell out of here!) is taboo. But, while we're on the subject, what's the difference between a Northern Baptist and a Southern Baptist? A Northern Baptist says "There ain't no hell!" A Southern Baptist says "The hell there ain't!"
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15th August 2007, 08:47 AM	#14
JJM 777 Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 3,175	Originally Posted by Lensman What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? Why would you be interested in one specific word only? Why not more generally ask: what is it about "strong language" or "swear words" that makes them such? --- The phenomenon is global, and quite uniform, but not perfectly. Swear words usually translate into other languages directly, so that the expression has precisely the same meaning and emotional impact in both languages. But not always. The most popular nicknames of male and female genitals are usually among the "strong swear-words" in every language. Also human excrement, but not urine. In English language also the nickname of intimate union, "f**k", has somehow evolved into a strong swear-word. Other languages contain a similar nickname for intimate union, but in Hollywood movies this word is usually subtitled with the nickname of female genitals etc. (at least in Finland), because the nickname for intimate union is not a swear-word in our language, and it would sound very silly if Hollywood actors were quoted using it as such. --- As for Biblical concepts, the nickname for "eternal damnation" seems to be among the strong swear-words in all languages that I know. With the exception that the word can be used quite neutrally when speaking about eternal damnation in a religious context. This word does not exist in the original text of the Bible (which doesn't contain any other swear-words either): the Greek text quotes Jesus as saying "Gehenna", which is Greek version of the Hebrew name "Gey Hinnom" or "Valley of Hinnom", a place south of Jerusalem's city walls that was used as the dump of the ancient Temple, the most impure place on earth where "the fire was never quenched". Again the evolution of swear-words has some regional differences: in the Scandinavian languages (such as Swedish and Finnish, which are linguistically not related to each other) the Hebrew "name" of devil, "Satan", is among the strongest possible swear-words. In English language it does not have such status. Explain that. --- Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language. It sounds like "God-help", but it is written with one letter missing from the middle of this expression. (In Finnish language the word "God" ends with the same letter that the word "help" begins, so this double letter is written only once.) I have never heard any theory why such a swear-word exists in our language, and what is its etymological history.
	Last edited by JJM 777; 15th August 2007 at 08:51 AM.

15th August 2007, 09:40 AM	#15
jsiv King of Svalbard Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bortenfor alle blåner Posts: 4,492	Originally Posted by JJM 777 Again the evolution of swear-words has some regional differences: in the Scandinavian languages (such as Swedish and Finnish, which are linguistically not related to each other) the Hebrew "name" of devil, "Satan", is among the strongest possible swear-words. In English language it does not have such status. The devil has many names, but the word "Satan" is actually relatively mild in Norwegian (like darn, I guess.) Some of his other names are slightly worse though, and the equivalent to the f-word is a name for the devil or hell depending on the region. Originally Posted by JJM 777 Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language. It sounds like "God-help", but it is written with one letter missing from the middle of this expression. (In Finnish language the word "God" ends with the same letter that the word "help" begins, so this double letter is written only once.) I have never heard any theory why such a swear-word exists in our language, and what is its etymological history. Could that not just be about damnation too? Similar to "may God have mercy on your soul" or "only God can help you now" or "God help you...", just in a convenient shortened form?
	__________________ Panama er landet eg drøymer om!

15th August 2007, 10:17 AM	#16
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,255	Originally Posted by Lensman What is it about the word "Hell" that makes so many (mostly) Americans quail? False premise. Hell does not make Americans quail. You seem to be extrapolating from a specific case to a broad generalization. Maybe I misunderstood your question. Is it your question concerning the word "Hell" as a hex, or as a magic spell or incantation, which once uttered transforms an American into a bird often hunted for sport and dinner? In D & D terms, we might be dealing with a "Power Word, Polymorph." If that is your question, it needs to be posted in the Paranormal sub forum. DR
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

15th August 2007, 01:19 PM	#17
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	Originally Posted by JJM 777 The phenomenon is global, and quite uniform, but not perfectly. Swear words usually translate into other languages directly, so that the expression has precisely the same meaning and emotional impact in both languages. But not always. Is this right? My only source is the CBC However... My understanding is that swears are culture dependent. Not speaking any other languages fluently (and only a smattering of French), I have to take it largely second-hand, that swearing is quite different. In some places the worst swears seem to be religious, in others body functions... I practice self-censorship, especially in 13+ forums for two reasons: i) I don't want neurotic parents yanking their internet privileges ii) I can express myself without swearing
Jimbo07 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,417	__________________ This post approved by your local jPac (Jimbo07 Political Action Committee), also registered with Jimbo07 as the Jimbo07 Equality Rights Knowledge Betterment Action Group. Atoms in supernova explosion get huge business -- Pixie of key

15th August 2007, 03:23 PM	#18
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 48,985	Originally Posted by JJM 777 Finnish language has one very uncommon swear-word, possibly the very strongest swear-word in our language. You and the other Finns must start using it more frequently, so it does not die out! I suggest you scream it out your window right now as a matter of fact.