Business on Reality TV

Wolfman · 15th August 2007, 08:57 AM

One of the best-known TV reality shows is "The Apprentice". I'll admit, in the first season, I was something of a fan; but as the seasons progressed, it became more and more obvious that the producers (including Trump) were more interested in ratings than in identifying 'real' businesspeople. Boring people were sent out early, regardless of their actual skill, while the really weird/controversial ones were given chance after chance after chance despite major screwups.

And Trump's 'advice' was laughable; in one show, he'd fire someone because he had not agreed with the team's decision (which had been a bad decision) and therefore refused to cooperate with them, therefore he showed lack of team spirit. In another, he'd fire someone when they cooperated with everyone on the team, despite thinking it was a bad idea, because 'they failed to show leadership or initiative'.

Anyway, last year I discovered a show that is heads and tails above The Apprentice; not sure how many of you are familiar with it, but it is called "The Dragon's Den". There are currently at least two versions running in the UK and in Canada.

In The Dragon's Den, they will put together a panel of five very successful businesspeople; these people will then listen to a 10-minute business pitch from people who are seeking investment for their business. If they like the idea, and think that the people pitching it have the ability to pull it off, they'll invest. If they don't like it, they'll get rid of them.

For anyone who is seeking to do business, and particularly anyone who is seeking investment (a process which I myself have only recently completed in starting up a new business here in China), this show is brilliant for helping you to understand what investors are looking for.

Of course, TV is about ratings, so they stick in some really bizarre stuff as well (such as a woman seeking money to market bottles of water that she has sung to in order to imbue them with positive energy), but the Dragons make quick work of those ones...no pandering to the idiots in order to get ratings.

So far as "reality TV" goes, I consider The Dragon's Den to be one of the very few shows out there that really does reflect reality; the hard, cold truths of the business world.

If you haven't seen it, there are clips on YouTube; if you're interested in business in general, you'll enjoy it. And if you are seeking (or planning to seek) investment, I'd consider it indispensable viewing.

JonnyFive · 15th August 2007, 09:13 AM

I always thought "The Appentice" was a stupid show, not very reflective of... well, anything but reality TV.

Granted, I'm very much a middle/back office person when it comes to business, so I don't have any experience actually starting a business, but it seemed like a lot of what they were doing was kind of stupid and irrelevant. In my experience, those most successful in a given industry are those who have that rare combination of technical know-how and business savvy.

In "The Apprentice" it seemed like they were always competing to basically become a Donald Trump sychophant. Never mind what the actual job is supposed to entail or what skills are involved - if you can navigate the minefield of "good TV" then you're hired.

Grimoire · 15th August 2007, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Anyway, last year I discovered a show that is heads and tails above The Apprentice; not sure how many of you are familiar with it, but it is called "The Dragon's Den". There are currently at least two versions running in the UK and in Canada.

A great show (the Canadian one, anyways), but it can be annoying. Sometimes they over edit to try and create a sense of drama. How long do we need to watch one of the Dragons pondering while we listen to "I'm thinking really hard" music? But other than that, it doesn't contain any of the crap the most "reality" shows contain. Great show to watch, and it doesn't matter if you miss an episode or two!

The Atheist · 15th August 2007, 02:30 PM

I applied to Dragon's Den - we have a local show here as well - but while they granted an audition, I didn't make the program. I had a gimmicky deal under way which they liked, but they didn't like it quite enough, obviously!

As to the worth of it all, I'm not so sure. The trouble is that about 80% of the deals done by the Dragons never come to anything, because all agreements on camera are subject to due diligence and I've noticed that the majority of deals here fell through. Venture capital is something best arranged through real venture capitalists rather than a 30-minute TV show - I have a much larger business which has a VC partner. I noticed here that there were a preponderance of young women selected to show their wares to the Dragons.

I'd be interested in feedback on other countries' experience with the show - whether the deals proceeded or not?

The Apprentice? Never watched a minute of it, never will.

Wolfman · 15th August 2007, 05:47 PM

TA,

Ah, it seems we have quite a bit in common! I also auditioned for the Canadian version of Dragon's Den. My purpose wasn't to get investment from them; if I got on the show, my intent was to use it as a platform to publicize my ideas, in order to get VC from others.

I really wouldn't recommend Dragon's Den as an actual source of venture capital for most small start-up operations. The Dragons will demand waaaaay too much equity; you could get the same investment for 1/3 of the equity from others.

But for preparing yourself for the types of questions you are going to be asked, and better understanding what is expected of you, the show is brilliant. I agree with Grimoire that they sometimes overdo it on the suspense/drama thing, but hey...that's TV.

Oh...I also failed in my audition. The producers actually thought it was a brilliant idea, but it was a business based in China, and they only take business ideas that are based in Canada.

ETA: Oh, and while you're right that a number of the 'deals' that the Dragons make fall apart after the show is over, it is also true that a significant number of those who appear on the show get offers of investment from others afterwards.

Wolfman · 15th August 2007, 11:06 PM

Here are two clips from one of the best-known episodes of the Canadian version of Dragon's Den (well, three clips, since the first part is divided in half). The idea is a great idea, the presentation is not great, but it is adequate. Most importantly, they come to the Dragons with a proven product, and viable plans for expansion.

The first two clips (two halves of the same show) show their initial pitch to the Dragons, and their reaction:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The second clip is the follow-up, where they lose the promised investment because of the comments of their teacher/business advisor.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Now, I'm of two minds on this.

On the one side, I do think that the Dragons asked for too much equity; they knew that they were dealing with inexperienced kids who were desperate for this kind of investment. So the fact that the deal was canceled is not all that tragic to me (and they did eventually find other investors).

On the other side, their teacher/advisor is, in my opinion, a complete idiot. He's a brilliant example of the aphorism that "those who can't do, teach". Here's a guy who knows business only from the theoretical side, teaching in the classroom; and he's attempting to tell successful, proven businesspeople that they don't know what they're talking about.

15th August 2007, 08:57 AM	#1
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,809	Business on Reality TV One of the best-known TV reality shows is "The Apprentice". I'll admit, in the first season, I was something of a fan; but as the seasons progressed, it became more and more obvious that the producers (including Trump) were more interested in ratings than in identifying 'real' businesspeople. Boring people were sent out early, regardless of their actual skill, while the really weird/controversial ones were given chance after chance after chance despite major screwups. And Trump's 'advice' was laughable; in one show, he'd fire someone because he had not agreed with the team's decision (which had been a bad decision) and therefore refused to cooperate with them, therefore he showed lack of team spirit. In another, he'd fire someone when they cooperated with everyone on the team, despite thinking it was a bad idea, because 'they failed to show leadership or initiative'. Anyway, last year I discovered a show that is heads and tails above The Apprentice; not sure how many of you are familiar with it, but it is called "The Dragon's Den". There are currently at least two versions running in the UK and in Canada. In The Dragon's Den, they will put together a panel of five very successful businesspeople; these people will then listen to a 10-minute business pitch from people who are seeking investment for their business. If they like the idea, and think that the people pitching it have the ability to pull it off, they'll invest. If they don't like it, they'll get rid of them. For anyone who is seeking to do business, and particularly anyone who is seeking investment (a process which I myself have only recently completed in starting up a new business here in China), this show is brilliant for helping you to understand what investors are looking for. Of course, TV is about ratings, so they stick in some really bizarre stuff as well (such as a woman seeking money to market bottles of water that she has sung to in order to imbue them with positive energy), but the Dragons make quick work of those ones...no pandering to the idiots in order to get ratings. So far as "reality TV" goes, I consider The Dragon's Den to be one of the very few shows out there that really does reflect reality; the hard, cold truths of the business world. If you haven't seen it, there are clips on YouTube; if you're interested in business in general, you'll enjoy it. And if you are seeking (or planning to seek) investment, I'd consider it indispensable viewing.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

15th August 2007, 09:13 AM	#2
JonnyFive Insurance Underwriter of Doom Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4,473	I always thought "The Appentice" was a stupid show, not very reflective of... well, anything but reality TV. Granted, I'm very much a middle/back office person when it comes to business, so I don't have any experience actually starting a business, but it seemed like a lot of what they were doing was kind of stupid and irrelevant. In my experience, those most successful in a given industry are those who have that rare combination of technical know-how and business savvy. In "The Apprentice" it seemed like they were always competing to basically become a Donald Trump sychophant. Never mind what the actual job is supposed to entail or what skills are involved - if you can navigate the minefield of "good TV" then you're hired.
	__________________ "If you drink virus water ,i must say ‘don't drink it,it is trap’." -Emre_1974tr Ex-defendant in Simpson v. Randi, et al.

15th August 2007, 01:37 PM	#3
Grimoire Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 382	Originally Posted by Wolfman Anyway, last year I discovered a show that is heads and tails above The Apprentice; not sure how many of you are familiar with it, but it is called "The Dragon's Den". There are currently at least two versions running in the UK and in Canada. A great show (the Canadian one, anyways), but it can be annoying. Sometimes they over edit to try and create a sense of drama. How long do we need to watch one of the Dragons pondering while we listen to "I'm thinking really hard" music? But other than that, it doesn't contain any of the crap the most "reality" shows contain. Great show to watch, and it doesn't matter if you miss an episode or two!
Grimoire Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 382	__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -Voltaire 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

15th August 2007, 02:30 PM	#4
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Within smelling distance of the Grammar Death Camps Posts: 13,928	I applied to Dragon's Den - we have a local show here as well - but while they granted an audition, I didn't make the program. I had a gimmicky deal under way which they liked, but they didn't like it quite enough, obviously! As to the worth of it all, I'm not so sure. The trouble is that about 80% of the deals done by the Dragons never come to anything, because all agreements on camera are subject to due diligence and I've noticed that the majority of deals here fell through. Venture capital is something best arranged through real venture capitalists rather than a 30-minute TV show - I have a much larger business which has a VC partner. I noticed here that there were a preponderance of young women selected to show their wares to the Dragons. I'd be interested in feedback on other countries' experience with the show - whether the deals proceeded or not? The Apprentice? Never watched a minute of it, never will.
	__________________ Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted: It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.

15th August 2007, 05:47 PM	#5
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,809	TA, Ah, it seems we have quite a bit in common! I also auditioned for the Canadian version of Dragon's Den. My purpose wasn't to get investment from them; if I got on the show, my intent was to use it as a platform to publicize my ideas, in order to get VC from others. I really wouldn't recommend Dragon's Den as an actual source of venture capital for most small start-up operations. The Dragons will demand waaaaay too much equity; you could get the same investment for 1/3 of the equity from others. But for preparing yourself for the types of questions you are going to be asked, and better understanding what is expected of you, the show is brilliant. I agree with Grimoire that they sometimes overdo it on the suspense/drama thing, but hey...that's TV. Oh...I also failed in my audition. The producers actually thought it was a brilliant idea, but it was a business based in China, and they only take business ideas that are based in Canada. ETA: Oh, and while you're right that a number of the 'deals' that the Dragons make fall apart after the show is over, it is also true that a significant number of those who appear on the show get offers of investment from others afterwards.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated" Last edited by Wolfman; 15th August 2007 at 05:50 PM.