Open Casting Call for the Geller/Angel show

MWare · 17th August 2007, 08:52 AM

I don't even know where to begin:

http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/tlg/399011332.html

Anybody here wanna take a crack at it???

MWare · 17th August 2007, 09:31 AM

Ok, I've decided where to begin:

Quote:

NO ONE TRICK PONIES!

TheDoLittle · 17th August 2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by MWare

Ok, I've decided where to begin:

Quote:

NO ONE TRICK PONIES!

It's well known Gellar isn't a one trick pony. He's a 3 trick pony.

...and as my wife just commented, "...an ugly one at that!"

MWare · 17th August 2007, 09:43 AM

I wonder if Uri is using this as a way to learn some new tricks.

TheDoLittle · 17th August 2007, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by MWare

I wonder if Uri is using this as a way to learn some new tricks.

All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over!

Of course, since he'd rather give himself a headache by bending a spoon with mental powers instead of taking it in your hand and bending it, it shows he likes doing things the hard way.

...or perhaps he just doesn't want to be infected with libertarian philosophy.

MWare · 17th August 2007, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by TheDoLittle

All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over!

Of course, since he'd rather give himself a headache by bending a spoon with mental powers instead of taking it in your hand and bending it, it shows he likes doing things the hard way.

...or perhaps he just doesn't want to be infected with libertarian philosophy.

Unfortunately, cup & balls requires some dexterity which (from the YouTube's I've been seeing lately) is clearly not a strength Uri possesses.

DJM · 17th August 2007, 10:24 AM

The aliens only gave him the ability to perform a few effects.. you can't except him to start doing new stuff after 30 years, it would not seem realistic.

T'ai Chi · 19th August 2007, 06:13 AM

Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning from Randi.

JonWhite · 19th August 2007, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning from Randi.

Randi mentions it in this weeks Swift:

"For two weeks now, I’ve been inundated by notices of this impending program, about which I’ve been kept informed by insiders who are rather astonished at NBC co-chairman Ben Silverman’s decision to sign such a deal. I received a call from Criss Angel assuring me that he does not intend to endorse as “supernatural” anything that Geller or the others might choose to do, but I don’t know how much choice he’ll have in that respect… Why NBC has agreed to cast the 3-trick-pony to head up this show, I cannot tell. I guess we’ll just have to sit back and watch the train wreck…"

Can't say that it comes across as "massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning" to me.

CFLarsen · 19th August 2007, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning from Randi.

Call it what you like.

If you think it is a better approach to be silent and let Uri Geller con more people, well, that is your choice.

Senex · 19th August 2007, 08:00 AM

I imagine the producers will be sent 100's of videos of guys screwing up the "King's Rising" affect and quarter through beer can effects. The request doesn't state the act has to use original material. It will be misery looking at all those videos of bad woo.

Originally Posted by TheDolittle

All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over!

I think Penn Jillette owes me $30 for exposing the cups and balls trick. When I was 12 in 1975 I walked into Lou Tannen's magic shop in NYC and paid $30 for a really nice silver plated cups and balls set and Jillette happened to be in the store at the same time. I didn't know him from Penn and Teller but I recognized him from a TV show (I think it was Hill Street Blues). There were only the two of us in the store and he knew I only had $60 to spend and I blew 1/2 of it on one effect. Now it's useless because he has exposed it on TV many times and every day in his LV act.

Bob Klase · 19th August 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Senex

I think Penn Jillette owes me $30 for exposing the cups and balls trick. When I was 12 in 1975 I walked into Lou Tannen's magic shop in NYC and paid $30 for a really nice silver plated cups and balls set and Jillette happened to be in the store at the same time. I didn't know him from Penn and Teller but I recognized him from a TV show (I think it was Hill Street Blues).

1975? That would be good- Hill Street Blues ran from 1981 to 1987 (http://epguides.com/HillStreetBlues/) and IMDB shows nothing for Penn before 1985 except something on a music video in 1983.

Senex · 19th August 2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

1975? That would be good- Hill Street Blues ran from 1981 to 1987 (http://epguides.com/HillStreetBlues/) and IMDB shows nothing for Penn before 1985 except something on a music video in 1983.

Ok, I was born in 1962 and I am certain I was under 16. I did recognize Mr. Jillette from something I saw on TV, certainly not P&T. I remember kind of creeping him out by looking at him through the corner of my eye until he said hello to me.

Humanists Harbor · 14th October 2007, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by JonWhite

Randi mentions it in this weeks Swift:

"For two weeks now, I’ve been inundated by notices of this impending program, about which I’ve been kept informed by insiders who are rather astonished at NBC co-chairman Ben Silverman’s decision to sign such a deal. I received a call from Criss Angel assuring me that he does not intend to endorse as “supernatural” anything that Geller or the others might choose to do, but I don’t know how much choice he’ll have in that respect… Why NBC has agreed to cast the 3-trick-pony to head up this show, I cannot tell. I guess we’ll just have to sit back and watch the train wreck…"

I read that Jim Karol is a contestant on this show. He used to perform regularly on my college campus and I would always speak with him after the show. He's a magician who never claimed to have paranormal powers. In fact, he called himself "the next James Randi" and said that he and Randi were friends. I'm curious to hear how he represents himself on the show.

bokonon · 25th October 2007, 07:44 AM

Having seen the show, of the first set of contestants only one (the unemployed steel worker who's impervious to pain) seemed to imply mysterious powers. The show itself was kind of unimpressive, I thought. In thinking about it, it's hard to imagine it would be otherwise. Dramatic lights and dramatic music can't make mentalism dramatic. I think it needs a more intimate and maybe impromptu setting for maximum impact. When it's just you and the mentalist, one one one, you know it isn't being done with stooges.

Wowbagger · 25th October 2007, 08:01 AM

I severely doubt there were any stooges used in the show. (although, I could be wrong.) None of those tricks require any, as far as I can tell.

I have already seen Todd Robins do the fox trap thing, and Banachek do the rest of them, in person. But, I imagine someone who has never seen mentalist tricks before being quite impressed with that stuff.

The nail-gun guy was my favorite: Although it is fairly easy to think of ways he could have figured out which gun had the nails, he was by far the most dramatic, and "in-character" performer. The fox-trap guy was the worst: Too much hype, not enough "reward". The rest were sort-of "meh".

Gellar's prediction that the star would get chosen was a complete waste of time.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th October 2007, 08:58 AM

As I say in one of the other mutiple threads on this show, "Even I, as a non-magician, can spell the word "gimmicked"."

blobru · 25th October 2007, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

... The nail-gun guy was my favorite: Although it is fairly easy to think of ways he could have figured out which gun had the nails, he was by far the most dramatic, and "in-character" performer. The fox-trap guy was the worst: Too much hype, not enough "reward"...

I imagined the nail-gun guy could hear the nails rattling around in the live gun.
That fox-trap trick is pathetic. My granddad was a fur trapper; those traps just wear out after a while, and are no more dangerous than a fridge door (notice he never tested the large trap's strength on the pencils).
And the Geller star "transmission". And Geller! At least Criss Angel brought a modicum of professionalism to the critiques. Otherwise, what a mess.

bokonon · 25th October 2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

I severely doubt there were any stooges used in the show. (although, I could be wrong.) None of those tricks require any, as far as I can tell.

I don't think it was done with stooges either, but if you read comments on the show around the internet, that's what every amateur yahoo is assuming, just to have the pleasure of boasting that they weren't fooled. For most of the skeptical general public, if it CAN be done with stooges, it's assumed that it WAS done with stooges.

Gord_in_Toronto · 25th October 2007, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by bokonon

I don't think it was done with stooges either, but if you read comments on the show around the internet, that's what every amateur yahoo is assuming, just to have the pleasure of boasting that they weren't fooled. For most of the skeptical general public, if it CAN be done with stooges, it's assumed that it WAS done with stooges.

I once was selected from the audience by Penn to view Teller do the "thread the needles on the thread" trick. I ain't no stooge!

Garrette · 26th October 2007, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

I ain't no stooge!

We'll need for more evidence to believe that.

Nyuk nyuk

bokonon · 26th October 2007, 09:19 AM

I've made myself something of a pest over at the NBC message board for Phenomenon. There's an upcoming competitor, Jim Callahan, who everybody there seems to think is Merlin incarnate. He has the usual boast on his website about how he's all set to win the million dollar challenge (last updated: 2006), but, for some reason, he hasn't gotten around to actually submitting an application. I guess he's been too busy opening stores and doing trade shows.

He boasted on the NBC board less than a week ago that all the skeptics run scared when he threatens to flex his magical muscles, so I've just called his bluff. I suspect he won't be posting again on the NBC message board, but we'll see. I intend to taunt him mercilessly in his absence. I have all kinds of respect for magicians, have read a little Eugene Berger, and don't even mind when a magician adopts a "real psychic" persona, as long as there's a wink to the audience to let them know that it IS still an act.

I enjoy being baffled. I learned a little coin magic myself a few years back, but there are effects that, while I know I could spend a few dollars to learn the secret myself, I prefer to be entertained. Even though I don't know how "The Invisible Deck" works, I've seen what can be done with it, and when I'm watching Criss Angel I'll say to myself, "I'll bet that's how..." without needing to know the details. Even knowing that there is such a thing diminishes my enjoyment a bit, and who needs diminished enjoyment?

Even so, I've seen what people like Sylvia Browne can do with a vulnerable group of true believers. Even though I'd never heard of Jim Callahan before checking out the Phenomenon message board, his website has some ad trying to recruit people who "would like to participate in his shows and experiments after their deaths," so I suspect he's another one of the van Praag, Edwards, Browne grief leeches. Even if he just ignores me, I'm going to have fun.

Garrette · 26th October 2007, 09:45 AM

Same Jim Callahan who occasionally posts on Magic Cafe? (I think that's the forum; it's been a while since I visited there). When he restricts his comments to magical presentation, they're not bad. When he goes off on his "In addition to being a skilled magician I have actual mystical powers" kicks, it gets embarrassing.

Gord_in_Toronto · 26th October 2007, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Garrette

We'll need for more evidence to believe that.

Nyuk nyuk

Sorry. Everybody knows you can't prove a negative.

DJM · 27th October 2007, 06:22 AM

Jim is just using Randi as some kind of publity, he doesn't actually claim psychic powers. He usually hints stuff to be different from other mentalists, but people shouldn't take him too seriously. Here's a little disclaimer from his website.

I am asking those who read this site to remember I am an entertainer, artist & researcher.

Please do not get carried away when viewing and interacting with my work. It is to be an entertaining, surreal diversion.

I am not a psychic nor a medium. I am a Paranormalist.

You are in control of what you believe and do with your life.
Just as I am.
Have fun and enjoy yourselves........

bokonon · 27th October 2007, 07:21 AM

I thought he claimed he talks with a man who's been dead for 25 years using a pendulum. Are you saying the JREF challenge he's posting on his website, where he claims to be all set to win the million dollar challenge, is supposed to be seen as a joke?

Maybe I am taking it too seriously, but over on the NBC site, he's definitely claiming (and has supporters claiming for him, and for themselves) real magical ability. When I mentioned the Robert Houdin quote about magicians being actors playing the part of magicians, he responded that it wasn't correct, and that there's "no need to act, if it's real." I don't mind hearing that from someone presenting an act on the stage, but on a discussion board 5 days before the show, it sure seems like he's going Geller to me.

It probably doesn't matter anyway; I'm about to get booted off the NBC board for repeatedly challenging him to put up or shut up.

Bob Klase · 27th October 2007, 09:10 AM

For those who are watching (or recording) the show, I just noticed that Phenomenon is on for 2 hours next Wednesday (Oct 31).

Brown · 27th October 2007, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bob Klase

For those who are watching (or recording) the show, I just noticed that Phenomenon is on for 2 hours next Wednesday (Oct 31).

I noticed this. It's a "Halloween Special!"

One hour with four lame acts was absurd. Two hours of this tripe might cause my brain to shrink. Thank goodness for the fast-forward button.

DJM · 27th October 2007, 03:09 PM

Bokonon, that's part of his gimmick, he knows he doesn't have powers. When he says it's real, that's just semantics. Because everything we do is real, doesn't mean it's supernatural. I know it can be annoying when he does it on forums and such, but that's just his way to be different than the other mentalists. Don't waste your time to try and challenge him, it would never happen.

bokonon · 27th October 2007, 06:36 PM

Okay, I understand, and I don't want to get in the way of a man making a living. I suppose talking to one hand-picked dead guy isn't on the same level as claiming to talk to the departed loved ones of anyone who's grieving.

I already posed my challenge over there, and it's already been declined without saying so in so many words (though a couple of people have stepped up to the plate with "I don't have any special powers, but here's my guess anyway"). Thanks for reminding me that "real" can be understood in a couple of different ways. Keeping that in mind will help keep my blood pressure down, and replace my belligerence with good-natured ribbing.

DJM · 27th October 2007, 07:06 PM

I believe the dead person you mentioned is Raymond, one of his fictional characters. There's also J ack who seems like his alter ego.

Annoying stuff, but pretty much harmless since it's done just for entertainment.

JonWhite · 28th October 2007, 10:51 AM

For us Brits (and others) who didn't have the dubious pleasure of watching the first episode as it aired:

Phenomenon Ep 1

T'ai Chi · 28th October 2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by JonWhite

Can't say that it comes across as "massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning" to me.

And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too.

How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements.

CFLarsen · 28th October 2007, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too.

How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements.

This is the common lament we hear from woos when they are cornered.

Why focus on them? Why not go after the really important guys? Why not save the world (and leave the woos alone, because they can't counter the criticism from skeptics)

You don't get to decide what skeptics investigate, T'ai Chi. Deal with it.

JonWhite · 28th October 2007, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too

You can be as sure as you like, but as with your earlier expectation of Randi's response to the show it's really just yet another incorrect assumption on your part.

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements.

Such as applying skepticism to "more important things" like martial arts for example? Yeah, that would really further the debate about "global warming, medicine, things like that" too.

This is a thread in the conjuror's corner. As CF puts so well, deal with it.

T'ai Chi · 28th October 2007, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by JonWhite

You can be as sure as you like, but as with your earlier expectation of Randi's response to the show it's really just yet another incorrect assumption on your part.

We can already see moaning in the weekly rant (commentary), so your definition of "incorrect" is rather curious.

Quote:

Such as applying skepticism to "more important things" like martial arts for example? Yeah, that would really further the debate about "global warming, medicine, things like that" too.

In the thread which you bring up as a tangent, I was countering the skepticism of the OP who wonders the point for studying traditional martail arts, not creating my own skepticism of martial arts.

But I would say that martial arts, you know, defending yourself from bad guys in real life, is more important than being uber-skeptical about TV shows and entertainment, lol.

Bob Klase · 28th October 2007, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by T'ai Chi

But I would say that martial arts, you know, defending yourself from bad guys in real life, is more important than being uber-skeptical about TV shows and entertainment, lol.

I would say that going and and actually doing something about what you consider the big problems (global warming, etc) would be much more effective than arguing with people on a message board. It appears that you're like most people, you want to complain about other people while being free to ignore your own advice.

17th August 2007, 08:52 AM	#1
MWare Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 666	Open Casting Call for the Geller/Angel show I don't even know where to begin: http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/tlg/399011332.html Anybody here wanna take a crack at it???
	__________________ “The plural of anecdote is not evidence." --George Stigler "I am all in favor of a dialogue between science and religion, but not a constructive dialogue. One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." --Steven Weinberg

17th August 2007, 09:31 AM	#2
MWare Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 666	Ok, I've decided where to begin: Quote: NO ONE TRICK PONIES!
	__________________ “The plural of anecdote is not evidence." --George Stigler "I am all in favor of a dialogue between science and religion, but not a constructive dialogue. One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." --Steven Weinberg

17th August 2007, 09:41 AM	#3
TheDoLittle Disco King Discombobulator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,145	Originally Posted by MWare Ok, I've decided where to begin: Quote: NO ONE TRICK PONIES! It's well known Gellar isn't a one trick pony. He's a 3 trick pony. ...and as my wife just commented, "...an ugly one at that!"
	__________________ David O. Little -=The DoLittle 8-)=- America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week. - Evan Esar / No one can earn a million dollars honestly. - William Jennings Bryan (1860 - 1925) / If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you. - Don Marquis

17th August 2007, 09:43 AM	#4
MWare Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 666	I wonder if Uri is using this as a way to learn some new tricks.
	__________________ “The plural of anecdote is not evidence." --George Stigler "I am all in favor of a dialogue between science and religion, but not a constructive dialogue. One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." --Steven Weinberg

17th August 2007, 10:19 AM	#5
TheDoLittle Disco King Discombobulator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 1,145	Originally Posted by MWare I wonder if Uri is using this as a way to learn some new tricks. All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over! Of course, since he'd rather give himself a headache by bending a spoon with mental powers instead of taking it in your hand and bending it, it shows he likes doing things the hard way. ...or perhaps he just doesn't want to be infected with libertarian philosophy.
	__________________ David O. Little -=The DoLittle 8-)=- America believes in education: the average professor earns more money in a year than a professional athlete earns in a whole week. - Evan Esar / No one can earn a million dollars honestly. - William Jennings Bryan (1860 - 1925) / If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you. - Don Marquis Last edited by TheDoLittle; 17th August 2007 at 10:21 AM. Reason: There is no spoon...

17th August 2007, 10:24 AM	#6
MWare Muse Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 666	Originally Posted by TheDoLittle All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over! Of course, since he'd rather give himself a headache by bending a spoon with mental powers instead of taking it in your hand and bending it, it shows he likes doing things the hard way. ...or perhaps he just doesn't want to be infected with libertarian philosophy. Unfortunately, cup & balls requires some dexterity which (from the YouTube's I've been seeing lately) is clearly not a strength Uri possesses.
	__________________ “The plural of anecdote is not evidence." --George Stigler "I am all in favor of a dialogue between science and religion, but not a constructive dialogue. One of the great achievements of science has been, if not to make it impossible for intelligent people to be religious, then at least to make it possible for them not to be religious. We should not retreat from this accomplishment." --Steven Weinberg

17th August 2007, 10:24 AM	#7
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	The aliens only gave him the ability to perform a few effects.. you can't except him to start doing new stuff after 30 years, it would not seem realistic.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

19th August 2007, 06:13 AM	#8
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,233	Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning from Randi.
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com

19th August 2007, 07:36 AM	#9
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	Originally Posted by T'ai Chi Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi*ng/moaning from Randi. Randi mentions it in this weeks Swift: "For two weeks now, I’ve been inundated by notices of this impending program, about which I’ve been kept informed by insiders who are rather astonished at NBC co-chairman Ben Silverman’s decision to sign such a deal. I received a call from Criss Angel assuring me that he does not intend to endorse as “supernatural” anything that Geller or the others might choose to do, but I don’t know how much choice he’ll have in that respect… Why NBC has agreed to cast the 3-trick-pony to head up this show, I cannot tell. I guess we’ll just have to sit back and watch the train wreck…" Can't say that it comes across as "massive complaining/bi*ng/moaning" to me.
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland

19th August 2007, 07:41 AM	#10
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,805	Originally Posted by T'ai Chi Oh my. Expect massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning from Randi. Call it what you like. If you think it is a better approach to be silent and let Uri Geller con more people, well, that is your choice.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

19th August 2007, 08:00 AM	#11
Senex Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 1,798	I imagine the producers will be sent 100's of videos of guys screwing up the "King's Rising" affect and quarter through beer can effects. The request doesn't state the act has to use original material. It will be misery looking at all those videos of bad woo. Originally Posted by TheDolittle All he has to do is go to a Penn&Teller show! They show how they do their tricks all the time!! I learned the the whole "Ball and Cup" from watching YouTube clips over and over! I think Penn Jillette owes me $30 for exposing the cups and balls trick. When I was 12 in 1975 I walked into Lou Tannen's magic shop in NYC and paid $30 for a really nice silver plated cups and balls set and Jillette happened to be in the store at the same time. I didn't know him from Penn and Teller but I recognized him from a TV show (I think it was Hill Street Blues). There were only the two of us in the store and he knew I only had $60 to spend and I blew 1/2 of it on one effect. Now it's useless because he has exposed it on TV many times and every day in his LV act.

19th August 2007, 11:39 AM	#12
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	Originally Posted by Senex I think Penn Jillette owes me $30 for exposing the cups and balls trick. When I was 12 in 1975 I walked into Lou Tannen's magic shop in NYC and paid $30 for a really nice silver plated cups and balls set and Jillette happened to be in the store at the same time. I didn't know him from Penn and Teller but I recognized him from a TV show (I think it was Hill Street Blues). 1975? That would be good- Hill Street Blues ran from 1981 to 1987 (http://epguides.com/HillStreetBlues/) and IMDB shows nothing for Penn before 1985 except something on a music video in 1983.

19th August 2007, 03:41 PM	#13
Senex Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: An autobody repair shop in Connecticut Posts: 1,798	Originally Posted by Bob Klase 1975? That would be good- Hill Street Blues ran from 1981 to 1987 (http://epguides.com/HillStreetBlues/) and IMDB shows nothing for Penn before 1985 except something on a music video in 1983. Ok, I was born in 1962 and I am certain I was under 16. I did recognize Mr. Jillette from something I saw on TV, certainly not P&T. I remember kind of creeping him out by looking at him through the corner of my eye until he said hello to me.

14th October 2007, 09:09 PM	#14
Humanists Harbor Scholar Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 109	Originally Posted by JonWhite Randi mentions it in this weeks Swift: "For two weeks now, I’ve been inundated by notices of this impending program, about which I’ve been kept informed by insiders who are rather astonished at NBC co-chairman Ben Silverman’s decision to sign such a deal. I received a call from Criss Angel assuring me that he does not intend to endorse as “supernatural” anything that Geller or the others might choose to do, but I don’t know how much choice he’ll have in that respect… Why NBC has agreed to cast the 3-trick-pony to head up this show, I cannot tell. I guess we’ll just have to sit back and watch the train wreck…" I read that Jim Karol is a contestant on this show. He used to perform regularly on my college campus and I would always speak with him after the show. He's a magician who never claimed to have paranormal powers. In fact, he called himself "the next James Randi" and said that he and Randi were friends. I'm curious to hear how he represents himself on the show.
Humanists Harbor Scholar Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 109

25th October 2007, 07:44 AM	#15
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058	Having seen the show, of the first set of contestants only one (the unemployed steel worker who's impervious to pain) seemed to imply mysterious powers. The show itself was kind of unimpressive, I thought. In thinking about it, it's hard to imagine it would be otherwise. Dramatic lights and dramatic music can't make mentalism dramatic. I think it needs a more intimate and maybe impromptu setting for maximum impact. When it's just you and the mentalist, one one one, you know it isn't being done with stooges.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058

25th October 2007, 08:01 AM	#16
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 7,154	I severely doubt there were any stooges used in the show. (although, I could be wrong.) None of those tricks require any, as far as I can tell. I have already seen Todd Robins do the fox trap thing, and Banachek do the rest of them, in person. But, I imagine someone who has never seen mentalist tricks before being quite impressed with that stuff. The nail-gun guy was my favorite: Although it is fairly easy to think of ways he could have figured out which gun had the nails, he was by far the most dramatic, and "in-character" performer. The fox-trap guy was the worst: Too much hype, not enough "reward". The rest were sort-of "meh". Gellar's prediction that the star would get chosen was a complete waste of time.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC 2009: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ A conference on science and skepticism where *you* could be a presenter!

25th October 2007, 08:58 AM	#17
Gord_in_Toronto Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,491	As I say in one of the other mutiple threads on this show, "Even I, as a non-magician, can spell the word "gimmicked"."
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

25th October 2007, 09:11 AM	#18
blobru Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,878	Originally Posted by Wowbagger ... The nail-gun guy was my favorite: Although it is fairly easy to think of ways he could have figured out which gun had the nails, he was by far the most dramatic, and "in-character" performer. The fox-trap guy was the worst: Too much hype, not enough "reward"... I imagined the nail-gun guy could hear the nails rattling around in the live gun. That fox-trap trick is pathetic. My granddad was a fur trapper; those traps just wear out after a while, and are no more dangerous than a fridge door (notice he never tested the large trap's strength on the pencils). And the Geller star "transmission". And Geller! At least Criss Angel brought a modicum of professionalism to the critiques. Otherwise, what a mess.
blobru Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,878	__________________ "Say to them, 'I am Nobody!'" -- Ulysses to the Cyclops "Never mind. I can't read." -- Hokulele to the Easter Bunny

25th October 2007, 11:14 AM	#19
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058	Originally Posted by Wowbagger I severely doubt there were any stooges used in the show. (although, I could be wrong.) None of those tricks require any, as far as I can tell. I don't think it was done with stooges either, but if you read comments on the show around the internet, that's what every amateur yahoo is assuming, just to have the pleasure of boasting that they weren't fooled. For most of the skeptical general public, if it CAN be done with stooges, it's assumed that it WAS done with stooges.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058

25th October 2007, 12:23 PM	#20
Gord_in_Toronto Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,491	Originally Posted by bokonon I don't think it was done with stooges either, but if you read comments on the show around the internet, that's what every amateur yahoo is assuming, just to have the pleasure of boasting that they weren't fooled. For most of the skeptical general public, if it CAN be done with stooges, it's assumed that it WAS done with stooges. I once was selected from the audience by Penn to view Teller do the "thread the needles on the thread" trick. I ain't no stooge!
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

26th October 2007, 07:13 AM	#21
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,926	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto I ain't no stooge! We'll need for more evidence to believe that. Nyuk nyuk
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,926	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th October 2007, 09:19 AM	#22
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058	I've made myself something of a pest over at the NBC message board for Phenomenon. There's an upcoming competitor, Jim Callahan, who everybody there seems to think is Merlin incarnate. He has the usual boast on his website about how he's all set to win the million dollar challenge (last updated: 2006), but, for some reason, he hasn't gotten around to actually submitting an application. I guess he's been too busy opening stores and doing trade shows. He boasted on the NBC board less than a week ago that all the skeptics run scared when he threatens to flex his magical muscles, so I've just called his bluff. I suspect he won't be posting again on the NBC message board, but we'll see. I intend to taunt him mercilessly in his absence. I have all kinds of respect for magicians, have read a little Eugene Berger, and don't even mind when a magician adopts a "real psychic" persona, as long as there's a wink to the audience to let them know that it IS still an act. I enjoy being baffled. I learned a little coin magic myself a few years back, but there are effects that, while I know I could spend a few dollars to learn the secret myself, I prefer to be entertained. Even though I don't know how "The Invisible Deck" works, I've seen what can be done with it, and when I'm watching Criss Angel I'll say to myself, "I'll bet that's how..." without needing to know the details. Even knowing that there is such a thing diminishes my enjoyment a bit, and who needs diminished enjoyment? Even so, I've seen what people like Sylvia Browne can do with a vulnerable group of true believers. Even though I'd never heard of Jim Callahan before checking out the Phenomenon message board, his website has some ad trying to recruit people who "would like to participate in his shows and experiments after their deaths," so I suspect he's another one of the van Praag, Edwards, Browne grief leeches. Even if he just ignores me, I'm going to have fun.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058

26th October 2007, 09:45 AM	#23
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,926	Same Jim Callahan who occasionally posts on Magic Cafe? (I think that's the forum; it's been a while since I visited there). When he restricts his comments to magical presentation, they're not bad. When he goes off on his "In addition to being a skilled magician I have actual mystical powers" kicks, it gets embarrassing.
Garrette Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 7,926	__________________ My kids still love me.

26th October 2007, 10:07 AM	#24
Gord_in_Toronto Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,491	Originally Posted by Garrette We'll need for more evidence to believe that. Nyuk nyuk Sorry. Everybody knows you can't prove a negative.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

27th October 2007, 06:22 AM	#25
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Jim is just using Randi as some kind of publity, he doesn't actually claim psychic powers. He usually hints stuff to be different from other mentalists, but people shouldn't take him too seriously. Here's a little disclaimer from his website. I am asking those who read this site to remember I am an entertainer, artist & researcher. Please do not get carried away when viewing and interacting with my work. It is to be an entertaining, surreal diversion. I am not a psychic nor a medium. I am a Paranormalist. You are in control of what you believe and do with your life. Just as I am. Have fun and enjoy yourselves........
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 27th October 2007 at 06:24 AM.

27th October 2007, 07:21 AM	#26
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058	I thought he claimed he talks with a man who's been dead for 25 years using a pendulum. Are you saying the JREF challenge he's posting on his website, where he claims to be all set to win the million dollar challenge, is supposed to be seen as a joke? Maybe I am taking it too seriously, but over on the NBC site, he's definitely claiming (and has supporters claiming for him, and for themselves) real magical ability. When I mentioned the Robert Houdin quote about magicians being actors playing the part of magicians, he responded that it wasn't correct, and that there's "no need to act, if it's real." I don't mind hearing that from someone presenting an act on the stage, but on a discussion board 5 days before the show, it sure seems like he's going Geller to me. It probably doesn't matter anyway; I'm about to get booted off the NBC board for repeatedly challenging him to put up or shut up.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058

27th October 2007, 09:10 AM	#27
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,389	For those who are watching (or recording) the show, I just noticed that Phenomenon is on for 2 hours next Wednesday (Oct 31).

27th October 2007, 11:30 AM	#28
Brown Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 9,025	Originally Posted by Bob Klase For those who are watching (or recording) the show, I just noticed that Phenomenon is on for 2 hours next Wednesday (Oct 31). I noticed this. It's a "Halloween Special!" One hour with four lame acts was absurd. Two hours of this tripe might cause my brain to shrink. Thank goodness for the fast-forward button.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

27th October 2007, 03:09 PM	#29
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Bokonon, that's part of his gimmick, he knows he doesn't have powers. When he says it's real, that's just semantics. Because everything we do is real, doesn't mean it's supernatural. I know it can be annoying when he does it on forums and such, but that's just his way to be different than the other mentalists. Don't waste your time to try and challenge him, it would never happen.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783

27th October 2007, 06:36 PM	#30
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058	Okay, I understand, and I don't want to get in the way of a man making a living. I suppose talking to one hand-picked dead guy isn't on the same level as claiming to talk to the departed loved ones of anyone who's grieving. I already posed my challenge over there, and it's already been declined without saying so in so many words (though a couple of people have stepped up to the plate with "I don't have any special powers, but here's my guess anyway"). Thanks for reminding me that "real" can be understood in a couple of different ways. Keeping that in mind will help keep my blood pressure down, and replace my belligerence with good-natured ribbing.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,058

27th October 2007, 07:06 PM	#31
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	I believe the dead person you mentioned is Raymond, one of his fictional characters. There's also J ack who seems like his alter ego. Annoying stuff, but pretty much harmless since it's done just for entertainment.
DJM Muse Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 783	Last edited by DJM; 27th October 2007 at 07:11 PM.

28th October 2007, 10:51 AM	#32
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	For us Brits (and others) who didn't have the dubious pleasure of watching the first episode as it aired: Phenomenon Ep 1
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland

28th October 2007, 01:25 PM	#33
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,233	Originally Posted by JonWhite Can't say that it comes across as "massive complaining/bi***ng/moaning" to me. And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too. How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements.
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com

28th October 2007, 02:22 PM	#34
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,805	Originally Posted by T'ai Chi And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too. How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements. This is the common lament we hear from woos when they are cornered. Why focus on them? Why not go after the really important guys? Why not save the world (and leave the woos alone, because they can't counter the criticism from skeptics) You don't get to decide what skeptics investigate, T'ai Chi. Deal with it.
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

28th October 2007, 02:25 PM	#35
JonWhite Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: London Posts: 603	Originally Posted by T'ai Chi And I'm sure you find it productive to complain about TV entertainment programs and movies too You can be as sure as you like, but as with your earlier expectation of Randi's response to the show it's really just yet another incorrect assumption on your part. Originally Posted by T'ai Chi How about applying skepticism to more important things, like global warming, medicine, things like that. Not tricks that geeks are going to try to recreate in their parents' basements. Such as applying skepticism to "more important things" like martial arts for example? Yeah, that would really further the debate about "global warming, medicine, things like that" too. This is a thread in the conjuror's corner. As CF puts so well, deal with it.
	__________________ "In cases where prior knowledge is available, the alternative to 'an open mind' is not 'a closed mind'. It is 'an informed mind'. In such contexts, any appeal to 'keep an open mind' is an appeal to prefer ignorance over knowledge" Ian Rowland Last edited by JonWhite; 28th October 2007 at 02:46 PM.